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Best Discontinued Stories

1111 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

Joe J made me break a promise I made to myself. I had resolved not to read any on-going serials and wait until the story was complete before starting but his excellent "El Paso" was quickly followed up with El Paso - Border War, which I immediately followed and, you guessed it, it's been discontinued!

I'd like to start a new thread on best discontinued stories or series you'd like to see finished. Along with "El Paso Border War", I'd put "Intemperance III" up there also with Don Lockwood's "Rewind".

madnige ๐Ÿšซ

Spitfire and Messerschmitt

But don't mention it to Gina!

Replies:   Wheezer  Harold Wilson
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@madnige

I loved the story, but GMW's attitude toward her readers about S&M (and her other incomplete stories) as well as her increasingly preachy political leanings making their way into her stories makes it difficult for me to want to read any of her newer works.

Harold Wilson ๐Ÿšซ

@madnige

Spitfire and Messerschmitt

But don't mention it to Gina!

FYI, Gina did re-edit and finally finish the story over on her personal site. (beyond the far horizon.net)

Argon ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

Murder Isle by Mac the Knife, small chance of that, but a guy can hope.

Capt. Zapp ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@1111

I too would like to see 'Rewind' completed. Others I would like include, but are not limited to, 'The Orb', 'Five Thousand Years From Home', and anything by Cmsix.

docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@Capt. Zapp

Cmsix

I haven't had any email from him in a long time. Last I heard from him he was in a nursing home in Texas. I just sent him a note hopefully he will respond but from what he has indicated in the past about his family. If something has gone wrong they won't tell us or anyone else.

Replies:   rycliff_24
rycliff_24 ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

If you look at the author updates it's been announced he has passed away.

Replies:   mcguy101
mcguy101 ๐Ÿšซ

@rycliff_24

This is an old thread cmsix passed away in the last year or so. Doc had been one of his collarborators, so I'm sure he was aware of his passing.

docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@Capt. Zapp

anything by Cmsix

Okay here is the original version of Nanovirus still available online for reading or downloading as individual chapters.
http://www.asstr.org/~cmsix/nanovirusov/index.htm

He has other stories there as well although no where near as many as currently posted on SOL. Considering the lack of communication from him recently. Anyone interested might want to grab it while its still available.

Replies:   shinerdrinker
shinerdrinker ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

I actually liked reading both versions just to see the differences between the two. I mean he actually tries to tie them all up into one universe. I don't know if he was trying to do that from the beginning or if he saw it was possible while writing.

But he definitely left the opening to continue the universal stories either through a new story or continuing both "Nanovirus" and "John and Argent."

Awesome stories both of them anyway.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@shinerdrinker

That is a fact. I found out when we were writing each other more often. He was trying to merge three stories into the same universe. "Nanovirus", "John and Argent" and "I feel Lucky" were the planned mergers. I told him that it looked like "I feel Lucky" was not going to merge properly. In fact I still believe that one was his gift/talent/muse trying to save the foundation for most of his stories. I should have used that argument when we were talking about it. Most of his major stories were time/multi-dimensional as a rule. In the "Nanovirus" story he for all intents and purposes kills off the dimension that all those stories depended on. I think "I Feel Lucky" was his gift trying to create a dimensional split to save the foundation of his gift. He really started having trouble finishing stories when he decided to merge the three of them.

stevedallas54 ๐Ÿšซ

@Capt. Zapp

The last I heard, CMSIX was in a nursing home in Atlanta, Texas. Anyone close by that might visit or check on him? I am sure that he would enjoy knowing that we are thinking about him.

ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

A series I would love to see finished is by Black_Coffee, as the intended third part mentioned in 2012 hasn't yet been seen here. Hopefully that will emerge as the earlier two parts both had high scores.
......End of book Two, The Gunny and Lenore. Book three, Tinker, Statesman, Soldier, Sailor, Spy will follow.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

A series I would love to see finished is by Black_Coffee, as the intended third part mentioned in 2012 hasn't yet been seen here. Hopefully that will emerge as the earlier two parts both had high scores.

......End of book Two, The Gunny and Lenore. Book three, Tinker, Statesman, Soldier, Sailor, Spy will follow.

I'll echo that and add Dman3 which hasn't been updated since December 2014 when Cold Creek wrote that he had started the next chapter. He had also asked readers' opinions as to whom Mike should end up with

garymrssn ๐Ÿšซ

I'd like to see the completion of Melissa's Secrets by Pookie. I haven't had any success finding out what has happened to the author so I don't have much hope for the story being finished.

Replies:   ngc1234  sweetbiscui2004
ngc1234 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@garymrssn

I'd like to see the completion of Melissa's Secrets by Pookie.

Well, there were six years (!) between chapters 14 and 15, so there is still hope. I still remember seeing it come up on my "Active Serials" list out of the blue in 2011...

sweetbiscui2004 ๐Ÿšซ

@garymrssn

Pookie posted a new chapter a few months back - I love this story too, would love to see it finished.

Shinerdrinker ๐Ÿšซ

Here is one... Julian Coreto's Alan.

It was one of the first erotica stories I ever read. It is in dire need of fixing but in even more dire need of completion.

MarissaHorne ๐Ÿšซ

Raven Soule's Tycoon.

The author took the story up to the day when both sides in the confli ct were to make their big moves. Then it stopped.

Unfortunately, Raven Soule is (or was) fighting a series of battles with cancer. Whether he survived I don't know.

Replies:   remarcsd  Cwf528
remarcsd ๐Ÿšซ

@MarissaHorne

Raven Soule's Tycoon

My vote as well.

Cwf528 ๐Ÿšซ

@MarissaHorne

Tycoon also gets my vote; I have read it several times knowing that it doesn't have a conclusion, but it's still a great story!

Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

Although not technically a discontinued story, I think "Island Mine" by Refusnik deserves a sequel. He ended it decisively, but IMHO, ripe for a sequel. Unfortunately, he has shown no inclination to write one.

ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

I venture to disagree there. I think that creating a sequel as good as the original would be near impossible, and therefore if he tried that he could well end up devaluing what he had written.
As it is, he leaves an excellent story with - as you say - a decisive ending, albeit one that does make you wonder what could happen next. I think it is better that way.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

IMHO, Refusnik is a skilled enough writer that he could do an excellent job of writing a successful sequel to "Island Mine." Unless...he is thee, and this is a subtle way of saying it ain't gonna happen. ;)

ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Regrettably, I have not one iota of the writing talent displayed by Refusenik.
For a writer to come here, post three stories, and have an average above 9 may be unique, and I would like to see more of his work but have a feeling it may not occur since it is now some considerable time since the last one was posted.

solreader50 ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

Regrettably, I have not one iota of the writing talent displayed by Refusenik.
For a writer to come here, post three stories, and have an average above 9 may be unique

And I thank you for sending me off to read what llok to be three excellent stories. Your tip is much appreciated.

Replies:   Keet
Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@solreader50

And I thank you for sending me off to read what llok to be three excellent stories. Your tip is much appreciated.

Absolutely excellent. I just re-read Human Phoenix and Human Man for I think the fourth time. Island Mine I re-read not to long ago so that will take another year before I read it again.

Replies:   solreader50
solreader50 ๐Ÿšซ

@Keet

Absolutely excellent. I just re-read Human Phoenix and Human Man for I think the fourth time. Island Mine I re-read not to long ago so that will take another year before I read it again.

Coming back to thank you again. The two "Human" stories, especially the first were truly excellent. The "island" story less so but still a great read.

Can anyone give pointers to further stories by REFUSENIK on other sites or commerically?

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@ustourist

For a writer to come here, post three stories, and have an average above 9 may be unique,

It is only two stories posted, although he has written sequels available elsewhere, but gwresearch comes to mind.

K2 and Majestic.

Replies:   Keet
Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

It is only two stories posted, although he has written sequels available elsewhere, but gwresearch comes to mind.

K2 and Majestic.

For Magestic (with a g) you are correct. There are 2 more books and if you email him you can buy them directly from him.
K2 here on SOL is actual book 1 to 6. There is a seventh book ("Kidnap") not here on SOL.
All of them excellent reading!

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@Keet

Magestic

Spell check insisted on a j in Magestic. Sorry I posted the wrong story name. The author is sometimes Geoff Wolak. I suspect the "gw" in the author name gwresearch are his initials (G W). And he did a lot of research.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Wasn't Refusenik contacted by a commercial publisher about one of his previous stories? 'Human Phoenix'? I agree with your sentiment, Refusenik is an excellent writer.

AJ

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I have no idea. Was this info posted in his SOL
blog?

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Now I'm wondering whether I've confused him with another author in this respect. But I'm not confused about the excellence of his stories.

AJ

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

If any new author here deserved that attention from a commercial publisher then he definitely qualified for it.
I don't think anyone with credibility could challenge the excellence of them.
Interesting that everyone is assuming a 'he' though, (and I include myself in that). The stories themselves don't really show any gender bias in the writing, though I am sure he must have lived in NW Texas at some point from the accurate description of the area, so that may narrow down the search.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

I traded a couple of emails with Refusenik Nik a couple of years ago. I sent him a message a couple of days ago asking if there was anything new in the works, but no reply yet.

Replies:   ustourist  odave44  pan
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Thanks for the update.
Much appreciated (and fingers crossed!)
:0)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

Ditto - since there isn't a 'like' facility.

On the subject of gender, I've just discovered that the Gender Genie has disappeared.

AJ

odave44 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Wheezer

I also traded a few emails with Refusenik at the end of Island Mine. I will admit to telling him how disappointed I was in the sudden and negative ending to the story and all of the characters. He indicated he had a lot of negative feedback and seemed disinclined to write any more at the time because of it. I feel a bit guilty, because I agree his writing was excellent and would very much like to read more.

Replies:   Grant
Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@odave44

I will admit to telling him how disappointed I was in the sudden and negative ending to the story and all of the characters. He indicated he had a lot of negative feedback and seemed disinclined to write any more at the time because of it.

I read for entertainment, for enjoyment. If a story leaves me feeling down, no matter how well written, then the appeal is way down & I will score it as such.

Invid Fan's Waifs came with a warning that it wasn't all joy and light, so I didn't read it. Can't understand why people that have had a warning still read a story, then mark it down because they didn't like it even though they were warned of what to expect...
His Bells & Nowy Warsaw series all ended on the up, and were well written and interesting universes; so I scored them accordingly.

I read for fun & relaxation, if I want to be miserable i'll check out the news.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Grant

I think that illustrates a perennial problem with the ratings system.

Readers should be able to discern whether a story will appeal to them from its tags and outline. If they read a story and mark it down because it doesn't push the buttons they want, that may deter other potential readers who, for example, won't read a story scoring less than 7.5 on the assumption it's badly written.

Why didn't the reader realise the story wasn't going to be to their taste? Were the tags or outline inadequate? Or didn't the reader peruse the tags and outline properly?

AJ

Replies:   docholladay  sejintenej
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Or for that matter sometimes a writer will give a block warning in the story itself of something which might offend or disturb some readers. They usually then put another block or whatever at the end of that segment. A segment which wasn't originally planned can be marked that way to caution readers. But like any form of notice to the readers its only good when the reader uses it.

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Readers should be able to discern whether a story will appeal to them from its tags and outline. If they read a story and mark it down because it doesn't push the buttons they want, that may deter other potential readers who, for example, won't read a story scoring less than 7.5 on the assumption it's badly written

Too often the outline is so brief that it could cover a hundred stories. OK so tags might give a clue but for me it is the writer's style which holds me or pushes me away. I have already expressed a liking for a particular author but his (I assume the author is masculine) latest story does not ring my bell even after a lot of chapters though it will probably be in the high 7s or 8s.
Sorry but I won't be scoring it because I have given up on it.

7.5 or better? no; it's a guideline but I follow authors and generalised types of story but there are at least a dozen categories like zoophilia, cannibalism, cross dressing, ft/alien.... which are listed on the search engine but turn me off totally.

pan ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Hi I don't normally read this part of SOL, but stumbled across this...and although its 3 yrs later, just wondering if Refusenik did reply to you about continuing his "Human..."series? Of all the years reading SOL, his were among the few that I read and re-read several times.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@pan

I don't know why he removed his SoL blog, but his Fine Stories blog says;

Human Man is the last novel in the Man series. I won't rule out a future short story or novella, but that's not happening any time soon. I have other projects to work on.

dated 2 February 2014

I do remember seeing in his SoL blog before it was removed, he said he had no intentions of doing a sequel to Island Mine.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

He ended it decisively,

I don't think it was decisive ending so much as an indicator of more to come by sticking a finger up at the others.

pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Although not technically a discontinued story, I think "Island Mine" by Refusnik deserves a sequel.

Thats what I wrote him when I had read the story for the first time. He answered that he had no plans to write a sequel. Sorry. I really feel that the story on not really complete in a way that irks me.

invidian ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

Michael K Smith's "Siblings". He was writing chapters out of order from an outline, and for whatever reason stopped. He's still posting short stories with an incest theme.

jr88 ๐Ÿšซ

My personal favorite is A Master's Ring by ElSol.

I have hope that it may someday be finished.

Also worth mentioning is the DMan series by Cold Creek. It has been almost a year since the last update, and that was a year after the one before that.

Replies:   Wheezer  bubbag
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@jr88

Ditto! I also would like to see ElSol continue the Curandero series. Hey ElSol! Ya listening? ;)

Replies:   El_Sol  samuelmichaels
El_Sol ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Good news on writing front -- I have been writing again using reddit's writing prompt sub, but they are basically flash stories.

Bad news on writing front -- if my bosses are smart they will relocate me to a company that we bought who seriously needs operations people to save them from their own suicidal tendencies about operations work and/or shooting for baby #2.

So life is still being life.

samuelmichaels ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Ditto! I also would like to see ElSol continue the Curandero series. Hey ElSol! Ya listening? ;)

Me three!

bubbag ๐Ÿšซ

@jr88

I agree. A Master's Ring is the best! But, like I've emailed El Sol, that story may very well be complete as it is. El Sol has done a masterful job of fleshing-out his characters--to the point that many of us could write the next set of chapters, or at least imagine for ourselves where the plot was next going. I think at that point, a writer can say it's finished. I experience something similar with Terrible Thom's
"Oh Hell No".

kimlsevier ๐Ÿšซ

Reprobate Rodent's "The Case of The Duplicate Duke."

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels ๐Ÿšซ

@kimlsevier

Reprobate Rodent's "The Case of The Duplicate Duke."

It was wondering into the weeds, which may be why the author stopped.

MarissaHorne ๐Ÿšซ

I was rereading this thread and realised I'd forgotten one of my favourite discontinued stories.

Redeeming Halloween by StarCrawler.

They just disappeared off the face of the site some 18 months back leaving the story hanging.

Shame.

smask ๐Ÿšซ

Some oldies:

Artie - The Golden Mule 2
Al Steiner - A lost Generation / Greenies Prequel(s)
Al Steiner - Intemperance 3

Replies:   pangor  steeltiger
pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@smask

Al Steiner - A lost Generation / Greenies Prequel(s)
Al Steiner - Intemperance 3

While I'm with you on these, let him finish Homebodies first.

steeltiger ๐Ÿšซ

@smask

Steiner has Intemperance 3 on Amazon, and is posting chapters of Intemperance 4 on his paetron site. Still fantastic.

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

There is another one that nobody mentioned:
Barbe Blanche - Bow Valley
(https://storiesonline.net/s/66725/bow-valley)

I'm afraid that there is no chance that this story is ever going to be finished.

When we are speaking about this kind of events (authors who are no longer among us) - is there any chance that somebody else got chance to finish (at lease some) stories?

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

From what I have read in other writers remarks. The odds are slim to none. Probably the only chance even as a long shot would be for one to take and write their own version based on a particular story. But even that has lousy odds.

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

Maybe that ought to put bug in somebody's ear:

For example, maybe to pronounce all stories inactive and uncompleted more than let's say five (5) years to be free for grab and for completing (should first agree on some mechanism to do so), or to give them to group of (most) active authors on site, or (give us another idea)...

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

pronounce all stories inactive and uncompleted more than let's say five (5) years to be free for grab and for completing

No can do, not legal - copyright violation unless the original author gives their approval, which is unlikely.

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

Americans are so riddled with copyright. One day you all are going to find that your own lives are copyrighted and that you can not live them anymore :D

If I'm correct - this site is mostly for stories free given to read.
Shouldn't it be enough to keep deceased Authors data written in story with some added explanation (maybe from site owner (or somebody else) ?

(PS: mr. Bywater am I right that you have some mayor connections with "down under"?)

docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

Maybe in some ways. But as I see it and it has nothing whatsoever to do with man made laws. Stealing is stealing whether its something physical or mental (stories, etc.). Its okay to take the basic idea or theme of someone else and develop a version of your own as long as some form of credit is given. Now some ideas and themes become so common place in usage that giving a specific credit is not needed.
Your idea boils down to stealing their work. Sure I would love to see many of those stories finished, but that is impossible in many cases. Best case then is for someone else to take that theme or idea and create their own story based on it. New story, new characters (other stories characters if used at all have to be as a minor support character). Its the same way when a historical person is used in a story during that time period. The person can be used as a character, but the known historical facts about them can not be changed in anyway.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

Stealing is stealing whether its something physical or mental (stories, etc.).

Stealing is taking something away from someone.

Plagiarism while wrong does not take the work away from the original author.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Plagiarism while wrong does not take the work away from the original author.

It takes away the recognition and the honour of being known to have written it. It's the same as having just won first place in an Olympic ski event only to see them hand the medal to someone who came if sixth place but they got the names mixed up and they get the honour and rewards.

Replies:   tppm
tppm ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

It takes away the recognition and the honour of being known to have written it.

And remuneration, if any. All an author gets here is egoboo, but some places actually pay money for (the right to publish) writing.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@BlinkReader

If I'm correct - this site is mostly for stories free given to read.

The authors own the copyright, they give SOL the right to display the stories for people to read them free of charge, kind of like you can read a story in a library. At no point does the author surrender any of the rights to the site or the world in general. I know there is a myth that anything on the Internet is free to use, but it's a myth; most things are free to read or view, but not free to use at all.

Yes, I'm an Australian, and Ernest Bywater is my real name and what I most often write under, I also write the Clan Amir series as Ernest Edwards due to a request for a different name from a publisher. I also have a nickname I use on some forums of Deadly or Deadly Ernest - a nickname given to me back in the mid 1960s.

typo edit

Replies:   eroticafan
eroticafan ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

And may I say I absolutely love your writing Ernest. I have read and re-read multiple times most if not all of your stories here. Fantastic stories. Always get excited when a new work of yours comes up.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

Americans are so riddled with copyright. One day you all are going to find that your own lives are copyrighted and that you can not live them anymore :D

Do you really think anywhere else is better? A lot of the aspects of copyright law are dictated by international treaties (primarily the Bern Convention).

Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

We all seem to be very sensitive on the subject of copyright and respect for authors on SOL, even those with long inactive/incomplete stories where the author has vanished or is known to have died.

And Yet..........

Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators?

Yes, I know the authors of Fan-Fic love the characters, worlds & story universes they write about, but those are the original works of someone else. Not all that different, imho. What is different about writing a new story that picks up where an abandoned story leaves off and writing a story using characters & places created by a mainstream author or from a popular movie?

Replies:   docholladay  LonelyDad
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators?

As I mentioned above, it recognizes the original version and creator. Most fan fiction will not change the original characters or story but instead will link those into their own stories. The common links make it fan fiction the same as common links are used in the "Damsels in Distress" universe with admittedly an open invitation to write in it. The writers all acknowledge those rules in some form or other. Stealing is when you call the entirety of something your own when its based on the work of someone else. And some of that is an outright copy with only minor changes such as the character names.

Ideas and themes can and usually do become common. But it never hurts to acknowledge the original when known. Recognition and honor or respect is deserved for them at least and sometimes the respect is worth more than gold.

LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Wheezer wrote:
"Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators? "

And some authors have vigorously defended their copyrights against fan fiction, with the support of the courts. Others have warned that fan fiction will not be allowed and will be prosecuted. There have been cases where a fan-fic author has sued the original author for supposed plagiarism as the author continued their story line. And there are instances where the original author didn't care but didn't explicitly give permission, and later the estate took exception vigorously. If I were an author, it is a thin and wavy line I wouldn't wat to trip over. Yes, it is very unlikely to happen here, but why mess with your Karma?

Replies:   John Demille
John Demille ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

I would argue that authors objecting to fanfic do so out of insecurity and low self confidence. They're afraid that somebody would show them off by writing a better story than they would with their own settings and characters.

Otherwise, it's stupid to object. Fan-Fiction increases a universe's fanbase. The more people know about the universe through fan fiction, the more likely it is that the original author would make more money from follow up stories that he could write in his universe. An author could charge licensing fees for use of their characters.

I think copyright law is the wrong law to work with fan fiction. Trademark law is the more precise match for Fan Fiction.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@John Demille

I would argue that authors objecting to fanfic do so out of insecurity and low self confidence. They're afraid that somebody would show them off by writing a better story than they would with their own settings and characters.

I forget which series it was in, but one author who didn't used to have a problem with fanfic changed his mind when a book he was in the middle of writing had to be dumped because a fanfic piece using the same basic concept (one part foreshadowed in an earlier book) came out and the original author had legal concerns about law suites for stealing the fanfic idea. he'd had the idea a long time but hadn't proof of how long he had it, the fan got fed up of waiting for the foreshadowed aspect to appear in the main series so he wrote a fanfic on it thinking the author had no intention of doing so.

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all, and that then leads to issues about what is part of the series and what isn't. Which is an issue an author does not like having to deal with.

edit to add. There's nothing stopping someone from writing a story set in a similar type of environment without doing it as fanfic. With fanfic the fanfic author is looking to jump off and leach off the originating author's work and get readers they'd never otherwise get.

Replies:   ustourist  Not_a_ID  pangor
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all

I can imagine one area the author may be concerned about is the sexual aspect, either going into specific sexual acts with characters aimed at children (Harry Potter is a good example), or having their sexuality hijacked and the character made homosexual.

I can also imagine hijacking by the introduction of color or drug use, as many authors by intent leave the description of the main character somewhat open so more readers can identify with them.

If the author objects after those have happened, they will be subjected to vilification by the special interest groups, so prevention is better than damage control.

Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

I forget which series it was in, but one author who didn't used to have a problem with fanfic changed his mind when a book he was in the middle of writing had to be dumped because a fanfic piece using the same basic concept (one part foreshadowed in an earlier book) came out and the original author had legal concerns about law suites for stealing the fanfic idea. he'd had the idea a long time but hadn't proof of how long he had it, the fan got fed up of waiting for the foreshadowed aspect to appear in the main series so he wrote a fanfic on it thinking the author had no intention of doing so.

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all, and that then leads to issues about what is part of the series and what isn't. Which is an issue an author does not like having to deal with.

I think those 2 are the "big ones" for authors not wanting to openly allow fanfic to be made widely available.

I'm sure J.K. Rowling would love to expunge much of the H.P. centric porn/erotica from the internet with extreme prejudice. But she evidently gave that permission (to write fan fiction, not porn) and it's a little late now. But with that shining example, a lot of authors who might have otherwise been inclined to allow the same probably lost interest.

The other one, as mentioned, is the "complete work" that doesn't turn out to be complete, and the fan fiction writer who gets to it first.

Replies:   docholladay  pangor
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

I believe the only way to do something like this is to only use their characters in a support role, not as the major characters in a story.

Its like using any public figure whether current or historical. They are great for supporting a story, but lousy when they become the stars.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@docholladay

Its like using any public figure whether current or historical. They are great for supporting a story, but lousy when they become the stars.

I think that depends largely on the historical figure in question. And whether or not they have a viable estate still in operation that can sue you. Hollywood has already demonstrated this numerous times.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

I think that depends largely on the historical figure in question. And whether or not they have a viable estate still in operation that can sue you. Hollywood has already demonstrated this numerous times.

Heck the usage of "Sue you" has become a major habit, not just in Hollywood. When someone can sue and win because they spill a cup of coffee on themselves, saying: "I didn't know how hot it was". Its gotten to the point of being a terrorist attack only in the courts.

Replies:   Uwe1860
Uwe1860 ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

Heck the usage of "Sue you" has become a major habit, not just in Hollywood. When someone can sue and win because they spill a cup of coffee on themselves, saying: "I didn't know how hot it was". Its gotten to the point of being a terrorist attack only in the courts.

Perhaps you should find out the facts of a case before forming such a strident opinion. It will help you look a lot less ignorant.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Uwe1860

Perhaps you should find out the facts of a case before forming such a strident opinion. It will help you look a lot less ignorant.

Before assuming that you know Docholladay's thoughts, perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself. There have been hundreds of lawsuits over hot beverages and the courts have found numerous cases that they considered fraudulent.

The MacDonald's case may be one of the better known cases, but Docholladay's remark was general in nature not specific.

Replies:   Uwe1860  sejintenej
Uwe1860 ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

So, if the courts found them "fraudulent," they didn't "sue and win," then, did they?

The McDonald's case is the one more often cited in discussions like this because it was the most (inadequately) publicized. And anyone who engages in the sort of inane hyperbole that describes a lawsuit, ANY lawsuit, as terrorism cannot be assumed to be reasonable.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Uwe1860

they didn't "sue and win,"

You are right. They sued and lost. That is what Docholladay said, or to put it in other words, there are people out there who file fraudulent lawsuits in the hope of winning a big settlement.

Terrorism is about using fear to subdue an opponent. Hypothetical case - Person A intentionally spills hot coffee on their legs so they can file a lawsuit. What would you call it when a company is afraid they might lose due to public sympathy for Person A if the case goes to court. I would call it submitting to fear, and that is economic terrorism.

Replies:   Uwe1860  sejintenej
Uwe1860 ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

No, if you go back and read what he wrote, it was "sue and win." In the McDonald's case, the coffee was shown to have been much hotter than could reasonably be expected, and that particular McDonald's had been cited for it before the incident in question.

But hey, don't let the whole truth get in the way of a good rant. Your feelings are much more important than that silly, old logic and reason.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Uwe1860

No, if you go back and read what he wrote, it was "sue and win."

That is a correct statement in that those were the words he typed.

Go back and read all of what he said, and as you do think sarcasm. He was saying that people are willing to file fraudulent claims because they believe they can sue and win.

You are the one who tried to tie his general remarks to a particular case. It is true that that case was valid. However, since that person won, I would be willing to bet that other people have tried copy cat lawsuits.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

I would be willing to bet that other people have tried copy cat lawsuits.

And some of them will have won as some restaurants and/or their parent companies settle rather than risk going to court even if they think the claim is bogus.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

And some of them will have won as some restaurants and/or their parent companies settle rather than risk going to court even if they think the claim is bogus.

Thank you.

I suspect that was the point Docholladay was trying to make in his post. I also suspect that is why he labeled such lawsuits as terrorism.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

I suspect that was the point Docholladay was trying to make in his post. I also suspect that is why he labeled such lawsuits as terrorism.

That was the point. Sure some are probably required for good cause. But now a days it seems every time I listen to a legal commercial its all about lawsuits and some of those to me sound down right stupid. Heck I remember the time I was hit in a cross walk by a city bus. No major damage since I caught a glimpse of it early enough to start moving in the opposite direction. Bus ran the stop sign. If that happened today all kinds of lawyers would have been begging me to sue the bus driver and the local transit authority for who knows how much money. It wasn't needed.

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

What would you call it when a company is afraid they might lose due to public sympathy for Person A if the case goes to court. I would call it submitting to fear, and that is economic terrorism

I was in a cafรฉ in New York when liquid was seen on the tiled floor. They mopped it up, put a warning pillar on it and then surrounded it with four staff members who had to wait until the floor was totally dried. I was told it was to ensure that nobody slipped; an over-reaction caused by fear

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

I was in a cafรฉ in New York when liquid was seen on the tiled floor. They mopped it up, put a warning pillar on it and then surrounded it with four staff members who had to wait until the floor was totally dried. I was told it was to ensure that nobody slipped; an over-reaction caused by fear

And the cost of having people do that is passed on to all the customers by higher prices to have the extra staff available.

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

Before assuming that you know Docholladay's thoughts, perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself. There have been hundreds of lawsuits over hot beverages and the courts have found numerous cases that they considered fraudulent.

The reference was to the MacDonald's spilled hot coffee case. I did read it at the time and I also saw the start if the thread. Prima facie the case itself was not fraudulent - the (I nearly wrote stupid cow but withdraw that remark) DID hold the container between her legs and it did spill and the coffee was hot (as any sane person might expect).
The plaintiff (or rather her lawyers) claimed not only costs but also massive damages but the judge at least cut the amount down dramatically.
That said, as mentioned in "The Greenies", the case appears stupid - she (or rather her lawyers) would have sued if the coffee had been cold because it was not hot.

We had a case in the UK adjudged stupid towards the end of the 1800's and in the final appeal Lord Justice Scrutton remarked that "the law is not an ass' when he fined the guilty party one penny (the lowest amount he could fine him) and made the plaintiff pay his own and the accused's legal and other costs for all the various trials. That is what, in my opinion, the MacDonalds judge should have done.

Mention has been made of terrorism; America is notorious for lawyers demanding incredible sums for the slightest slight, imagined or real and in the event thereby terrorising ordinary folk. A person who terrorises is by definition a terrorist.

Replies:   Vincent Berg  REP
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

That said, as mentioned in "The Greenies", the case appears stupid - she (or rather her lawyers) would have sued if the coffee had been cold because it was not hot.

In most cases like this, the damages awarded go to medical and 'emotional distress', which often takes the form of permanent scaring and it's impact on social encounters, physical comfort, the ability to dress normally, etc. I wouldn't consider 3rd degree burns to the the same as 'if the coffee had been cold'.

Likewise, the main reason behind tacking huge fines onto legal judgements is because businesses have proven, time and again, that without those "emotional distress" qualifiers, the businesses would simply ignore the situation and never change their policies (see the multiple recent environmental lawsuits where fines of a couple hundred thousand are paid and then routinely ignored).

REP ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

The reference was to the MacDonald's spilled hot coffee case.

Uwe1860 referenced that case not Docholladay. Docholladay made a general remark and Uwe1860 zeroed in on a specific case.

People do really stupid things and if they get hurt, they try to sue someone else for their stupidity. In the MacDonald case, the plaintiff did have a valid position regarding the temperature of the coffee was significantly higher than what is normal for drinkable coffee. If I recall the article, 150 is considered normal but MacDonald's serves theirs at about 180.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

Actually, McDonald's brews their coffee at 190ยฐ, which is considered the optimum temperature to brew coffee at. Since the carafe the coffee is going into starts at room temperature, the coffee rapidly cools down to the normal 150ยฐ. When I worked there, coffee in the carafe was only considered good for about 20 minutes. After that it has cooled off too much, even with the heater under the carafe. They had stainless vacuum carafes that would be filled immediately after the coffee was brewed, and could be used for up to two hours, since the vacuum insulation kept the coffee warm enough. I don't know if they are still doing it that way or not, since I don't drink coffee, and haven't worked there in the last ten years. For them to serve coffee hotter than 150ยฐ, they would have to be taking the coffee straight from the brewer without going to the carafe first. We were told never to do that, both for safety reasons (a good way to get burnt) and that one couldn't guarantee the quality of the coffee, because it could come out too strong or very weak, depending on what part of the brew cycle it was in.

If they were selling coffee at more than 150ยฐ then they were violating McDonald's policies, and deserved to be sued. Although, even at the cooler 150ยฐ, I for one wouldn't want to hold it between my legs!

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

Thank you for your first hand input about MacDonald's policy, training, and your experience.

The article indicated that the Judge found the woman partially to blame for the incident, but his rationale was not stated in the article I read. My personal observation is, removing the lid from a cup of hot coffee and placing it between your legs so you can add creamer and sugar while a passenger in a moving car is not the smartest thing to do. One could say the results are predictable.

The only info I have on this and other cases is what has been reported by the media, and I don't trust everything I read in the media. They always seem to put their own spin on a story, and of course the people being interviewed are involved and spinning the story to their respective advantage.

pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

I'm sure J.K. Rowling would love to expunge much of the H.P. centric porn/erotica from the internet with extreme prejudice.

Especially as nearly all of it contains underage sex...

pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all

Like, lets say, Harry Potter fan fiction on adult story platforms? ;-)

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

Writing fiction about fans? Will the shit hit the fan? Fans have blades that move air. Its hard to think about a story about that function.

Maybe Fan fiction is stories about some kind of sports fan. Fan there is short for fanatic. Fanatic Fiction would be easier to write about. Might be a subgenre of military vs terrorists.

Maybe there are other kinds of fans. Ladies cooled themselves using fans. Sort of a Georgette Heyer story.

Are there other kinds of fan fiction?

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

Are there other kinds of fan fiction?

GMW has written a lot of fan fiction in her Kinsella series.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

I will give what I personally think is a safe linkage. Using DW's Florida Friends series as an example. That series has developed all kinds of businesses providing equipment and charter services among other things. Very few customers are actually named however. Safe links are using that empty customer area utilizing either equipment purchases, charter services or garments. Who knows how many potential links are there without messing with the story line as developed by DW. Business can be conducted either through salesmen or potentially one of his characters. Using those business products saves having to redo what is already available. This kind of link would also support his stories by giving customers to fill in the empty spaces.

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

That is a very good example, and I agree, it does have a lot of potential for generating offshoots.
There are a couple of authors who have already used the Florida Friends universe as a reference point in their stories, though in a minor way. I think both Barneyr (employment of a pilot)and SmokinDriver (visiting the strip club) have, and there is another one nagging at the back of my mind as well.
Not really fan fiction since it was peripheral, but certainly using details already established in the mind of regular readers.
Apologies if my memory is at fault there, both to the authors mentioned and those not credited, should I have recalled incorrectly.
Presumably opening up any universe is permitting fan fiction, though I believe the universes have rules, whereas much fan fiction is haphazard.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

Nice part is that there are openings for other links with other stories. My only personal limitation is that the other story's characters can only be used in similar ways to a historical figure used in fiction. Their names and characterization has become almost public domain, but the major facts about them can not be changed. Same goes for anyone elses characters regardless of what their part of any given story was.

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

Their names and characterization has become almost public domain, but the major facts about them can not be changed. Same goes for anyone elses characters regardless of what their part of any given story was.

I only wish that was the case. unfortunately it seems many fan fiction writers don't have your sense of ethics, and on a much wider scale you have the movie industry with no morals or ethics at all.
Who would ever have considered that James Bond could be black or female, given the precise description of him, but that is being suggested, and there must be worse examples (though not being a movie buff I wouldn't notice in most cases).

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

Who would ever have considered that James Bond could be black or female, given the precise description of him, but that is being suggested, and there must be worse examples

How about the movie Dune where a normal looking man who wears grey contact lenses to hide their blue in blue eyes turns into a 100 foot long and twenty foot high giant worm or the Starship Troops where a waist high giant spider that looks like a tarantula turns into a thirty foot high cross between a lobster and preying mantis. I think either of those might be worse examples.

Replies:   ustourist  Grant  El_Sol  jason1944
ustourist ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

I think either of those might be worse examples.

No dispute about that from me!

Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

How about the movie Dune where a normal looking man who wears grey contact lenses to hide their blue in blue eyes turns into a 100 foot long and twenty foot high giant worm

It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Grant

It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.

I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were. The books cover the same time span as the movie.

Replies:   Grant  tppm
Grant ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were.

He was talking about Leto IIs transformation to the worm which was over a 3,500 year period.

Yes, the Navigators had different descriptions in each of the books, but they were more human than not. They were much more different in the movie, and not quite as different in the mini series; but still more so than described in the books.

The books cover the same time span as the movie.

The only movie I saw was Dune, which was the first book of the series. The mini series used the first 3 books; Dune, Dune Messiah & Children of Dune.

EDIT- re-reading his statement, it looks like a mix of Leto II & the Navigators transformation.
The navigators were the ones to hide their eye colouring, Leto II was the one to turn in to a worm. In the movie, the Navigator was a small whale type of thing with small arms in a tank of spice gas.

tppm ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were. The books cover the same time span as the movie.

But they didn't look human, in fact, after generations (even with the extended lifespans provided by total immersion in Spice) I suspect they no longer were human, but a species unto themselves, evolved physically to live in a liquid environment (their Spice tanks).

However in the books Moud Dib's grandson, who became the God Emperor, became, with the aid of the sand trout engulfing his body, a sandworm.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@tppm

However in the books Moud Dib's grandson, who became the God Emperor, became, with the aid of the sand trout engulfing his body, a sandworm.

That was a few books later than what's covered in Dune and also due to more than just the use of the normal spice.

In the book Dune and the first sequel the Guild Navigators are very carefully described, and their appearance is totally human, the only oddity being the blue in blue eyes the same as the Fremen. The Guild Members in the books were not some weird misshapen beast, the way Lynch portrayed them.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Grant

It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.

The only person who changed to a worm was the main character after he partook of the special poison later, but none of the guild navigators became worms, while in the movie it opens up with a guild navigator that's a worm - never happened in the book.

edit to fix format error

Replies:   Grant
Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

The only person who changed to a worm was the main character after he partook of the special poison later,

Yep.

but none of the guild navigators became worms,

Nope.

while in the movie it opens up with a guild navigator that's a worm - never happened in the book.

The only movie I'm aware of was the David Lynch one. And in that the Navigator looked like a small whale with arms (to me at least).

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Grant

And in that the Navigator looked like a small whale with arms (to me at least).

Looked more like a grub or worm to me.

El_Sol ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Why do people keep bringing up the Starship Troopers movie?

That movie has scarred me for life! If I ever see start shooting people, it is because people won't just do me the favor of pretending that movie is just a figment of our collective masochism.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@El_Sol

Why do people keep bringing up the Starship Troopers movie?

People bring it up because the book was very good and had a lot to say about society, while the only thing the movie had in relation to the book was the movie title and a few character names, everything else was pure BS introduced by some brain dead scriptwriter and the wanker who produced it. If the film had been made properly and in line with the book it would not have scarred you at all.

Replies:   jason1944  pangor
jason1944 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

I always wondered what the huge horde of bugs ate on that desolate planet when they didn't have any human soldiers to snack on.

The best part of the movie was the co-ed shower scene ;-)

Replies:   Oyster  tppm
Oyster ๐Ÿšซ

@jason1944

I can't be the only who liked the book and the first movie (for different reasons obviously).

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Oyster

I can't be the only who liked the book and the first movie

The movie wouldn't have got any panning at all if they had used a totally different name for it and not tried to ride the fame of the author or the book. By using the book's title they gave people the expectation it would something like the book, then they deliver something that's totally unrelated to the story in the book. Is it any wonder people get angry about being deceived like that.

Replies:   Oyster
Oyster ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

From what I read the movie's makers had a script written and were starting production on a movie that had nothing to do with RAH's book, but someone mentioned that some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare (see Terminator and the lawsuit brought by my favorite curmudgeon Harlan Ellison).
So that is not something that I hold against the movie.
What's more: It was the movie that made me go out and buy the book.
Having read and reread the book several times I'll even say that the book cannot be made into a entertaining (or watchable) movie as too much of it is discourse, debate and internal monologue. One would probably have to cut much of that out or it would get too preachy.

So, while I agree that to RAH's fans the movie is probably a kind of bait and switch to younger audiences it may have brought attention to an accomplished science fiction author. At least that's what it did for me.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Oyster

I'll even say that the book cannot be made into a entertaining (or watchable) movie as too much of it is discourse, debate and internal monologue.

The first book/movie for the Lord of the Rings has the same problem. A significant chunk of the first book is a monologue by Gandalf at Rivendel (no sure the spelling is correct) to a council of the Elves and Dwarves trying to convince them to help with sending Frodo to Mount Doom to unmake the ring.

Replies:   1111
1111 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

I remember the first time I read Lord of the Rings some forty or so years ago in my teens (I'm giving my age away) thinking this is an absolutely awesome book but there's no way anyone can do justice to the book and make it into a movie, with the armies and hordes of ghoulish combatants. That was before blockbuster budgets and CGI. That said, I actually waited till I finished re-reading all three books of the LOTR series before I watched the movies. True, the movies simplified many parts but I think LOTR series (the movies) did not disappoint.
The only other movie I can think of where the movie was better than the book was 'Where Eagles Dare' - now I'm really showing my age.
Chris aka 1111

docholladay ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@1111

What I really hate is the habit the movie makers have gotten into over the past few years.

They make a movie supposedly based on a particular book. Sure its impossible to really tell it the exact same way in different mediums (that is true regardless of the story). Although it is possible to tell the same story just it has to be adjusted to the medium.

But instead they reissue the book rewritten to match the movie script. Many times that ruins an otherwise fantastic story for me.

Done right one medium will help the income from the other medium I think.

edited to add: In written media a story has to build a picture and sound with words for example. While in a movie type media the picture and sound are built into the media. Of course there are other variables as well but those two are obvious ones.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

They make a movie supposedly based on a particular book. Sure its impossible to really tell it the exact same way in different mediums (that is true regardless of the story).

For many stories this is a true statement, however, for many stories it is possible to do the movie exactly as it should be according to the book. This is especially true if they do it as animation or go heavy on the CGI. But, making a movie exactly as the way the author wrote it means the director doesn't get to stomp his artistic shlick on it, which is unacceptable to them. To get an idea of it, just look at how often authors and screenwriters have had major issues with the directors when the author includes the right to maintain artistic control in the contract. Movie management and the producer don't mind such clauses, but the directors kick up shit about it every time.

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@docholladay

But instead they reissue the book rewritten to match the movie script. Many times that ruins an otherwise fantastic story for me.

I learned, at a very young age, to avoid any book which features the words: "Based on the movie", which means they ignored the book it was based on a wrote an entirely new book based on the screenplay.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

True, the movies simplified many parts but I think LOTR series (the movies) did not disappoint.

I agree. The movies were very well handled.

As for the bits left out, The movies are already double the length of a typical feature film. Watching the whole trilogy would be a marathon of nearly 12 hours. Doing justice to the books demanded nothing less. If they had tried to include everything, the whole trilogy would have been over 18 hours.

LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

The only other movie I can think of where the movie was better than the book was 'Where Eagles Dare' - now I'm really showing my age.

I respectfully choose to execute my right to disagree. The movie was good. As a standalone story it works well. It did stay pretty well within the confines of the book. I guess my problem is the things that were left out or modified to allow it to fit into the movie framework of the time. I am a total immersion reader, which means I get totally into the story as the author tells it. As Lois Bujold says, a book is a collaboration between the author and the reader. As such, no two readers ever read the same book.

I can't do that with a movie. I have to be content to be pulled along and fed bits of the story at a time, seeing someone else's visualization rather than being allowed to create my own. It's okay if that happens with a story line I have no knowledge of, but it drives me crazy if it's based on a book that I have read and enjoyed, because that other person's visualization of the story doesn't come close to mine.

docholladay ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

As Lois Bujold says, a book is a collaboration between the author and the reader.

I loved the comment one of her characters made. It was in regards to why he never changed the questions to his tests. Answer was fairly simple, but it amazed me to realize how many things that answer really applied to.
Answer was:
"The questions never change, but the answer does."

samuelmichaels ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

I can't do that with a movie. I have to be content to be pulled along and fed bits of the story at a time, seeing someone else's visualization rather than being allowed to create my own. It's okay if that happens with a story line I have no knowledge of, but it drives me crazy if it's based on a book that I have read and enjoyed, because that other person's visualization of the story doesn't come close to mine.

You have to regard these as different media. You don't have the same freedom of imagination watching a movie as reading a book, but people still can infer different motivations to the actor's expressions, or read different things into the background and the music. Thus two people can watch a movie and form different impressions of it. For that matter, you can watch a movie twice, and see different things in it.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Oyster

some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare

that may be reason to get a legal license, but doesn't mean they have to go with the same name and mention his name. They could've called it anything, and then thrown in a little note 'based on .....' to cover the legal aspects.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

that may be reason to get a legal license, but doesn't mean they have to go with the same name and mention his name.

Maybe whoever runs his estate thought it was close enough to the book that they demanded that they put his name on it and use the book's title. If that's the case, in hindsight it was a mistake.

Really, unless someone can get a hold of a copy of the actual written agreement between Robert A. Heinlein's estate, TriStar Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, and Paul Verhoeven we'll never know for sure

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Oyster

but someone mentioned that some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare (see Terminator and the lawsuit brought by my favorite curmudgeon Harlan Ellison).

Wouldn't have been much of a legal nightmare, at best more of an annoyance. The Book was published in 1959 So it's copyright would have been under the 1909 copyright act and would have expired more than a decade before the movie was made.

tppm ๐Ÿšซ

@jason1944

I always wondered what the huge horde of bugs ate on that desolate planet when they didn't have any human soldiers to snack on.

Each other, much as insects, and other animals (us included) do here.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@tppm

They're kinda like the Sa'arm. They consume all the resources, them move on to another planet. Realize, of course, that they wouldn't be making so many different kinds and quantities of warrior bugs if they weren't fighting humans.

pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

People bring it up because the book was very good and had a lot to say about society, while the only thing the movie had in relation to the book was the movie title and a few character names

Reminds me of "Rambo". Has anybody out there read the book (David Morell, "First Blood")? It is so totally different from the movie...

jason1944 ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Or Lee Child's Jack Reacher character, whom he describes as 6'5" tall and weighing between 210 & 250 pounds with a 50" chest, being played in the movies by 5'7" Tom Cruise!

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

and there must be worse examples

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer.

jason1944 ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

But then again, we have Lee Child's Jack Reacher books, where he is clearly described as 6'5" and 210-250 pounds of solid muscle, being played in the movies by 5'7" Tom Cruise with the author's blessing.

pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@ustourist

Who would ever have considered that James Bond could be black or female

Or the new Doctor Who being female?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@pangor

Or the new Doctor Who being female?

Actually, this has been foreshadowed. There have been at least two other cases shown in the modern series with other time-lords having gender bender regenerations.

gmontgomery ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

And then there's the fanfic the grew like topsy, Eric Flint's 1632 universe. What started out as simple fanfic has become a multi-million word enterprise, with Eric Flint clipping the coupons on his bonds.

Replies:   pangor
pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@gmontgomery

Eric Flint's 1632 universe

Whats that? Never heard of this before. Links? Pointers?

Replies:   ChiMi  paliden
ChiMi ๐Ÿšซ

@pangor

A little us mining town is transported into the past into 30-year-war Germany in 1632.

paliden ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@pangor

Eric Flint's 1632 universe

Whats that? Never heard of this before. Links? Pointers?

https://www.baen.com/1632.html

Replies:   gmontgomery  JohnBobMead
gmontgomery ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@paliden

Eric Flint's 1632 universe

Whats that? Never heard of this before. Links? Pointers?

https://www.baen.com/1632.html

is good for the first book. Since it's publication there have been close to a million words printed in the series in novels, e-zines, and anthologies. Quite a few of the authors started out as newbies writing "fan-fic" posted in the 1632 Slush Forum on http://bar.baen.com/

JohnBobMead ๐Ÿšซ

@paliden

Eric Flint's 1632 universe

Whats that? Never heard of this before. Links? Pointers?

https://www.baen.com/1632.html

Baen CD 23 (1635: The Eastern Front) has 18 of them.

Baen CD Repository

Replies:   paliden
paliden ๐Ÿšซ

@JohnBobMead

Baen CD 23 (1635: The Eastern Front) has 18 of them.

Baen CD Repository

Thank you. I had actually forgotten about that site.

Replies:   JohnBobMead
JohnBobMead ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@paliden

Thank you. I had actually forgotten about that site.

There are four sites that I'm aware of that host various of the Baen CDs; none of them host everyone that Baen released, but the one I just posted has all of the ones that were bound into the hardcover first editions.

There is also a Gutenberg CD and a couple of other promotional CDs that were distributed at Cons; they can be found at The Fifth Imperium's repository.

I did, a couple of months ago, go through all the Baen CDs that were issued with the books and indexed what was included and which CDs they were in, and I'm finding that a very useful list.

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

Wowww!

Who would think that one small post from someone from god forgotten country behind seven seas and ravaged with seven wars, would spark so big debate?

I was just asking if some idea would be possible without any legal knowledge about your copyright.
When I received good explanation, I was satisfied and just put one joke to end this small regression from theme.

And please, excuse me if I'm wrong, but was not topic of this discussion discontinued stories?

So please - could we continue on topic?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Wheezer
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

And please, excuse me if I'm wrong, but was not topic of this discussion discontinued stories?

Thread drift happens in any thread with more than 2 posts, at 20 posts you're lucky to find the original topic being discussed, but it do come up with some interesting things worth reading most of the time.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Thread drift happens in any thread with more than 2 posts, at 20 posts you're lucky to find the original topic being discussed, ...

Back in the dark ages one newsgroup, demon local, had a policy that a thread was actually required to go off subject in the second or third reply. Woe betide anyone who went back to the subject; that was how Americans got the title Merkins (look up its other meaning)

Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

So please - could we continue on topic?

It's a pretty natural progression from discontinued stories to the legal and ethical ramifications of another author either finishing an incomplete work, or spinning off a new story/sequel using the same characters & story universe.

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

For me - another one of "reading for fun and relaxation" was "El Paso Border war" from Joe J.

And when we are speaking about this story, does anybody know what happened to him to left very good story unfinished?

Replies:   madnige  sejintenej
madnige ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

Excellent thread drift back to the beginning!

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

"El Paso Border war" from Joe J.
And when we are speaking about this story, does anybody know what happened to him to left very good story unfinished?

Bit strange; he left Twice Lucky III unfinished in 2006 with the comment "I'm Back". It did appear to be a suitable place to finish that story. He left El Paso Frontier war in October 2009 just after his latest blog. Some of his stories appeared in Finestories in 2010 and 2011 (neither that I have mentioned above is there) and Apache on Webpages includes a dozen on his stories including the unfinished Twice Lucky III. His stories, including the unfinished El Paso Border war also appear on ASSTR

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

Strange, indeed :(

When we are speaking about strange(r) - do you know that on this site is no one discontinued story with word "stranger" in name ...

Maybe our authors should use more of this word (stranger) in their names :D

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

Score 7.5 or higher?

From my beginning here, I learned that this fluid border lies around score 7.0, and for story with more than 100 votes to have score 7.0 or greater - it's usually readable enough.

But it's not law written in stone - there are some stories with score 6.0 with appeal for me, and there are stories with 8.5 and greater I started to read but abandoned because they had absolutely no appeal for me...

Maybe we should mention here at least one story with lesser score and good feeling for us.

Do you have any?

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

There are readable interesting stories on SOL with fairly low scores. If the topic interests you you can ignore flaws that others won't. The average score on SOL is adjusted to 6.0. I am sure I read that somewhere on the site. There are a great number of stories with scores under 7.5 that are interesting and good to read. There are stories in the following universes that are well worth reading with scores lots lower than 7.5. Some of them even below 6.0 Damsels in Distress, Naked in School, and Thinking Horndog's Swarm Cycle (which as nothing to do with motorcycles or bicycles.)

cynic_fred ๐Ÿšซ

I too agree with El Paso - Border War. Awesome story. I'm know I've read a few other's like that, but couldn't remember, even using the advanced search feature. That' ok though.

smask ๐Ÿšซ

I decided to reread "Magic" by Lazlo Zalezac and I saw that "More Magic" have that yellow stripe.

Another good story, "The Quatyl", fell victim to a lightning (not lightening) strike.

Replies:   pangor
pangor ๐Ÿšซ

@smask

decided to reread "Magic" by Lazlo Zalezac and I saw that "More Magic" have that yellow stripe.

"Magic" started off very good. But he ran out of story somewhere in the middle, and part of it looks like an author fighting writers block. Then there was a large pause, and a very quick end to the story, basically just a few "let me write this just to get out of here" chapters, and then he started "More Magic".

The same problem was with "The Quatyl", it started great, but he ran out of steam (or ideas).

I wish he had the necessary ideas to give those story the continuation that they deserve!

Replies:   Dinsdale
Dinsdale ๐Ÿšซ

@pangor

"Magic" started off very good. But he ran out of story somewhere in the middle, and part of it looks like an author fighting writers block. Then there was a large pause, and a very quick end to the story, basically just a few "let me write this just to get out of here" chapters, and then he started "More Magic".

The same problem was with "The Quatyl", it started great, but he ran out of steam (or ideas).

That is not what actually happened. According to a blog entry several years back, lightning struck his house and nuked his PC. If he had backups (I can't remember) they were close enough to have been destroyed as well. That is what killed The Quatyl but I can't remember if it also hit Magic (or More Magic).

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

On a related but separate topic: when is it too late to post a sequel to an existing story?

The last book in my "Great Death" series wasn't nearly as popular as the two earlier books, and I've put off the proposed fourth book. While I'm prepare to continue with it, I'm unsure of the desire/demand for it after this much time (the first was published in 2011), and originally posted to SOL a year before that).

I'm afraid that a new addition won't attract any new readers, and will only draw a small amount of those who appreciated the last book (#3), rather than the many who enjoyed the first and second books. Thus I'm hesitant to invest much time into the project, whereas entirely new books aren't weighed down by their less-than-successful earlier episodes.

The issue with the one book seems to have been technique, telling the story using an ever changing cast of characters (2 to 4 chapters for each character, before switching to the next). So I'm unsure whether a return to a single character would counter the unpopularity of the one technique (i.e. will new readers remember the original books, or the final book which they may not have preferred)?

Any ideas on when it's appropriate to abandon a series?

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

Any ideas on when it's appropriate to abandon a series?

My opinion is -- You own the series, and if you think you have something worth adding to the series, add it. Look for reader feedback and see if it indicates continuing the addition.

I was one of those readers who enjoyed the first couple of stories in the series. I don't recall the reason I was turned off by the last story I read. From what I do remember, the meteoroid shower had ended, the infected had died, and the survivors where disposing of the dead to clean up the surrounding area. The dynamics had changed within the small group of survivors; caused by the death of a few key members in their group if I recall correctly.

All-in-all the story seemed to lose direction and drive. That impression may have been caused by the apparent absence of a threat or situation that needed to be addressed.

If the new story doesn't re-stimulate reader interest, then I would probably let it go and move on to another story.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

I was one of those readers who enjoyed the first couple of stories in the series. I don't recall the reason I was turned off by the last story I read. From what I do remember, the meteoroid shower had ended, the infected had died, and the survivors where disposing of the dead to clean up the surrounding area. The dynamics had changed within the small group of survivors; caused by the death of a few key members in their group if I recall correctly.

Actually, the last book switched from the main character, David, and instead followed his followers as they traveled the country trying to spread his cure. This issue with the story was the lack of a single focus, as much as I could determine. Just as the readers started liking the characters and new story, I'd switch to an entirely new locale, new people and different problems.

I knew going in that it would be difficult maintaining interest, but hoped I was up to the challenge. I really enjoyed the story, myself, but can understand why others had trouble with it. The problem was more with the execution than the idea.

The new book again leaves the lead character, David, behind, but it focuses on a central character, Natalie, as she travels to Europe to take his cure to the rest of the world. She still communicates, when she can, with David, but the attention is squarely on Natalie as she faces language and cultural difficulties as she tries to convince people to undergo the treatment and rejoin society.

However, it's still a question of whether I can pull it off, given the weak start the previous book left me with. Natalie isn't a real compelling character, as the most unsure of David's followers. Also, with the constantly changing locations and people, it'll likely be hard to follow as well. Thus it remains nearly as difficult proposition as the previous book. Thus the question, if the series has lost steam, is it worth continuing with partial fixes in perspective?

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

worth

That is the bottom line, isn't it?

The story has Value to You and it is in trouble. Salvaging the story will have a Cost to You in terms of time and effort. Is the Value worth the Cost? ? ? Only you can decide that.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

That is the bottom line, isn't it?

The story has Value to You and it is in trouble. Salvaging the story will have a Cost to You in terms of time and effort. Is the Value worth the Cost? ? ? Only you can decide that.

Damn, I wanted to respond earlier, but spent days searching for this discussion thread.

I thought over the response (about the lack of threat in the story), and that was a conscious choice. After killing off everyone in the first book, and then having those rescued try to assassinate the main character, David, in the second, I decided to present a series of victories to counter the depressing presentation at the start of the story, hoping the internal conflict of trying to help people despite themselves would drive the story.

However, looking at it from the perspective of time, I now see that was a bad assumption. In many of my stories--especially my more popular stories--there's a distinct threat to the main character's life which defines the story. That was missing in the 3rd book. As much as I hate that every book has to deal with life and death issues, it's clearly a major selling point.

I'll take that into consideration in the sequel, though I'll have to determine how to introduce it into the overall story. I'd rather not duplicate plot elements from a previous book (the rescued trying to kill the rescuer in order to prevent their changing everyone's outcome), but it may be necessary.

By the way, I'm not sure I'd qualify it as a "cost to me" as an author. The story is still popular, but it's not my most popular book, especially on certain sites. Now that I can identify what the essential issue is, I can put it into perspective, but I still suspect the dissatisfaction was more due to a mismatch between the site's readers and the book, rather than a failure of the book itself.

Given the overwhelming negativity of the other books, I felt the readers deserved a more positive message of hope for the future, rather than holding it over their heads as a distant potential. It sounds like the next book will require a mix of the two: hope and success vs. direct threats.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

there's a distinct threat to the main character's life which defines the story. That was missing in the 3rd book

I saw traveling between locations with no support a definite threat. I dropped out during that part of the story so I really can't comment on how you handled the potential threats of that type of environment.

rebink ๐Ÿšซ

would love to see The Senator update either of his stories. Nothing in years.

kaiser_abaddon ๐Ÿšซ

Robberhands' Family Business.

red61544 ๐Ÿšซ

"A Charmed Life" by The Outsider. It's in Finestories. I wish it were completed and that he had written ten more. http://finestories.com/s/10527/a-charmed-life

Replies:   LonelyDad  The Outsider
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@red61544

Per his blog, 'A Charmed Life' is still active. He has slowed down on his posting, but plans to continue, with the next chapter due this week.

I agree, it is a good story.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

...slowed down on his posting...

That seems a bit odd, as the only week Outsider has missed was one, due a vacation, and he made note of it in his blog. He's been faithful in maintaining a regular posting schedule. We're now up to Chapter 50, which was just posted. I consider chapters 48-49 & 50 to be "must read" portion of the story; then pause a moment to say a prayer of support for your local emergency medical crews, and the sometimes unavoidable horrors they will never forget.

The Outsider ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@red61544

Red, knowing the author as well as I do, "A Charmed Life" will be finished.

Judasunchained ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

For me I really want the third Lucky Tickets story by JiMC (https://storiesonline.net/a/JiMC). The two stories there are complete but it was meant to be a trilogy and I really want to know how it ends.

And while I'm wishing, I'd really like the Growing Up A Master squeal by MWTB (https://storiesonline.net/a/MWTB), though this has less claim to be discontinued since Growing Up A Master ended in a good place.

Replies:   samuelmichaels  Mushroom
samuelmichaels ๐Ÿšซ

@Judasunchained

And while I'm wishing, I'd really like the Growing Up A Master squeal by MWTB (https://storiesonline.net/a/MWTB), though this has less claim to be discontinued since Growing Up A Master ended in a good place.

I'd like a sequel, too, but I am also leery of one. There is a special charm in a coming-of-age story, with discovery of sexuality and independence. Once the main character(s) become adult, you need a new conflict. A lot of authors have failed to keep a series fresh past these initial discoveries.

Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

@Judasunchained

For me I really want the third Lucky Tickets story by JiMC (https://storiesonline.net/a/JiMC). The two stories there are complete but it was meant to be a trilogy and I really want to know how it ends.

In this I fully agree. I admit this is one of my favorite stories in here, and read it again about once a year.

The author last posted new material here 3 years ago, and his last blog update is now over 2 years old in which he promises to someday finish it.

Maybe someday he will finish it, but by this time I kind of doubt it to be honest. One thing I can clearly say, the longer between a story and it's sequel, the harder it is to write. The original stories are now 16-18 years old, and as time goes on it becomes increasingly hard to continue such a story. For most of us, our style changes as we write, and it becomes harder and harder to make a newly written story mesh with an older one.

I found this out myself when a decade later I tried to pick up an old story, and simply could not do it. I have finally resigned myself to eventually completely re-write that older one, then simply write around it with cameos in other stories.

blacksash ๐Ÿšซ

John d series https://storiesonline.net/s/71313/new-pleasures I really enjoyed this one and the sequel https://storiesonline.net/s/72633/new-secrets

Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ

Which isn't to mention the slip/fall scams, either undertaken as a solo act or team effort. Where the "store customer" will spill(destroy) a liquid product all over the flooring. And before anyone has a chance to clean it up, in rushes the slip/fall scammer to do their spectacular wipeout(often in front of a camera, oh so conveniently). Presto, instant lawsuit for the store having "an unsafe environment."

The other fun one, as the Russians well know(and why they generate so much wacky dash cam footage) EVERYONE has dash cams due to rampant insurance fraud.

From the classic cut someone off and slam on the brakes so you get rear-ended(the person in back gets to be at fault, unless other witnesses step up, or video proof exists). To the person who will run out in front of a car that just stopped and fake getting hit by it.

Replies:   REP  Dominions Son
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

Let's not forget about all the medical scams that drive our health insurance rates up. It also causes the medical practitioners to charge us higher rates to cover the increased cost of their liability insurance.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

From the classic cut someone off and slam on the brakes so you get rear-ended(the person in back gets to be at fault, unless other witnesses step up, or video proof exists). To the person who will run out in front of a car that just stopped and fake getting hit by it.

That happens often enough, that the insurance industry gave it a name, swoop and squat. Often there are two cars involved, the swoop and squat car and a second to box the victim in and prevent dodging the squat car.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

That happens often enough, that the insurance industry gave it a name, swoop and squat. Often there are two cars involved, the swoop and squat car and a second to box the victim in and prevent dodging the squat car.

It also doesn't hurt that having a second or even third car involved helps them provide more "witnesses" to what happened when it becomes "he said, she said. Your word against mine" in a court case.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

It also doesn't hurt that having a second or even third car involved helps them provide more "witnesses" to what happened when it becomes "he said, she said. Your word against mine" in a court case.

They don't need or want witnesses. The way the scam works is that the squat car will be full and all the people in it will claim difficult to validate soft tissue injuries such as whiplash.

The damage claims are calibrated to be just below the typical cost of taking the case to court, so that your insurance company will settle without going to trial or even looking too hard at the claims made by the scammers.

blacksash ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

My personal list in no specific order, apart from A Master's Ring of course...

ElSol - A Master's Ring

https://storiesonline.net/s/41195/a-masters-ring

A Strange Geek - Universe Town of Haven

https://storiesonline.net/universe/129/town-of-haven

Mindmeld - Foul Ball

https://storiesonline.net/s/11068/foul-ball-sophomore-year-coming-of-age-sex-story

Robberhands - Family Business

https://storiesonline.net/s/73213/family-business

John D - Universe Growing Pains

https://storiesonline.net/universe/699/growing-pains

Oyster ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Maybe they should have used the "based on..." line, and I'm probably a hypocrite since I absolutely hate what Hollywood did to Asimov's "I, Robot", but that won't change my opinion.

@Dominion's Son

The book was published in 1959, copyright law was two terms of 28 years (if renewed after the first 28) so it was still copyrighted material until the start of 2016.
For more reading: https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday or https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2016/pre-1976

norefund ๐Ÿšซ

I would love to see John Evans continue "Diary of a Masher".

BlinkReader ๐Ÿšซ

I'm wondering why nobody mentioned "The Private"?

I'm still hoping the best, but last update this story saw on 27.07.2015 (It's 2015/27/07 for you US citizens) ...

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@BlinkReader

(It's 2015/27/07 for you US citizens) ...

Actually, common civilian usage in the US is month/date/year

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Actually, common civilian usage in the US is month/date/year

The new international standard, which is gaining some use in the US is year/month/day (2015-07-27).

One advantage is that even as text, it sorts properly without any special handling.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

The new international standard, which is gaining some use in the US is year/month/day (2015-07-27).

The main reason for that is the power of the companies pushing it, and the software using it as a default setting and few companies can be bothered changing any default settings in their software. It won't matter a great deal which becomes standard, as long as all the countries recognise the standard and dating system at the same time. We can do without another round of confusion like what happened with the change to the Gregorian system.

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

The new international standard, which is gaining some use in the US is year/month/day (2015-07-27).

The original date standard dates back to 1988 but has been changed several times since then. Who is to say that it will not be changed this or next year to something entirely different.

One of the ISO convenors is reported as saying
The disparity of rules for PAS, Fast-Track and ISO committee generated standards is fast making ISO a laughing stock in IT circles.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

ISO committee generated standards

When I see or hear ISO, I always think of the ISO 9000 series of quality management system standards.

I was involve in a ISO 9000 recertification effort at one of the companies I worked for. At the start of that effort, it was my understanding that ISO 9000 defined the quality of work that must be performed in order to sell your products in the EU. I quickly learned my understanding was totally wrong. What the ISO 9000 certification did, at that time, was require a manufacturer to define their manufacturing processes and procedures (good or bad) and then manufacture the products according to the defined procedures.

ISO 9000 had nothing to do with ensuring that the company produced a quality product. It was all about telling the customer and distributors how you manufactured a product, so they could decide if they wanted to buy the product. But the customer was never made aware of the procedures and processes the manufacturer defined and used to create the product.

I always considered that situation to be totally ludicrous.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

[re ISO 9000]I always considered that situation to be totally ludicrous.

I agree. I thought that the company also had to be able to prove the source of all the materials it used in the manufacture of each individual item.
It's just a licence to make make-work jobs and charge companies which is effectively a tax on the ultimate consumer

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

I thought that the company also had to be able to prove the source of all the materials

There are several organizations that provided ISO 9000 certification when I was helping our ISO group update their documentation. I don't recall us being required to provide documentation of our sources. That may have been a requirement set by one of the other ISO certification groups.

Actually I did see some benefit to having and complying with standards. In my company, the manufacturing group was fairly well managed. The compliance with procedures reduced the number of flawed products. However, there were many mavericks who were willing to cut corners that over time reduced the quality of the end product.

LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

That works for me. I'll just have to decide whether or not I need to go back and change all my other format dates to match. Actually, it shouldn't be that many because I usually do YYYYMMDD just so it sorts properly. I started out using alpha MMM but that doesn't sort properly so I changed.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

That works for me.

My thought is will this new International Standard be accepted here in the US or will it be an uphill battle like the use of metric values.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

My thought is will this new International Standard be accepted here in the US or will it be an uphill battle like the use of metric values.

I think it will be accepted here.

1. It makes a great deal of sense.
2. It isn't anywhere near as complex a change as the switch to the metric system.

Replies:   REP  Grant
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

I think it will be accepted here.

I agree with you DS. It is a logical way to express a date. But it isn't what we have grown accustomed to using so there will probably be a lot of initial resistance to making that change.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

But it isn't what we have grown accustomed to using so there will probably be a lot of initial resistance to making that change.

Agreed, but the change from the standard system of units of measure to metric was many orders of magnitude more complex, so the resistance to the new International Standard Date format with be neither as strong or as long lasting as resistance to the metric system has been.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Agreed, but the change from the standard system of units of measure to metric was many orders of magnitude more complex, so the resistance to the new International Standard Date format with be neither as strong or as long lasting as resistance to the metric system has been.

As soon as computer systems start requiring that format for data entry, etc., people will start getting used to it. There will be a period when they will still use the format they are used to for everyday life, but the continued spread of implementation will soon make it easier to just use that format all the time.

In my opinion, the fact that there is nothing to force the use of the metric system in the US is one of the prime reasons it is still not widely used outside of the scientific community. People point to the supposedly high cost of redoing signs and official documents as a reason not to convert, but a simple process of designing new signage and documents to be both for a period of time and phasing them in as replacements/updates are needed would go far towards implementing the conversion.

Replies:   Dominions Son  REP
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

In my opinion, the fact that there is nothing to force the use of the metric system in the US is one of the prime reasons it is still not widely used outside of the scientific community.

Actually, the Federal government tried to force the use of metric for food labels, road signs and other uses. They got huge push back from the general public and were forced to roll back a lot of the requirements.

REP ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

That is true. Add in the fact the year/month/date format is just a rearrangement of known values. The metric conversion requires us to learn a totally different system for weight, volume, speed, and distance.

Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

I think it will be accepted here.

1. It makes a great deal of sense.

Not to those of use that use D/MM/YY.
When talking about dates, the day is the most significant value- the most relevant, the month the next most significant value, and the year is the least significant value.
It makes sense to refer to the most relevant value first, which in many cases is the day of the week, then the date for that day is mentioned, then the month. The year rarely (if ever) gets a mention.

Certainly, YYYY/MM/DD is excellent for computer data, but not as a format for general use.

I think the major reason it would be adopted in the US is that if you drop the year part for general use, you're left with what you already use- MM/DD.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Grant

Not to those of use that use D/MM/YY.

Maybe, but the US currently uses the inside out format of mm/dd/yyyy

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Maybe, but the US currently uses the inside out format of mm/dd/yyyy

Because we write it in the same order we speak it:

Time Traveler: "I think my arrival date is a little off, what day is it?

Wheezer: "February 17, 2017."

Replies:   Grant  Dominions Son  REP  sejintenej
Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Time Traveler: "I think my arrival date is a little off, what day is it?

Wheezer: "February 17, 2017."

Where as we would say it as "Friday the 17th of February" and not even mention the year.
Day of the week, day, month, year (if required).

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Because we write it in the same order we speak it:

True, but that doesn't mean it makes sense to speak it that way.

Time Traveler: "I think my arrival date is a little off, what day is it?

Dominions Son: Today.

Fred: Tuesday.

REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Because we write it in the same order we speak it:

Or do we speak it the way we write it - definitely a chicken and egg question. :)

sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@Wheezer

Because we write it in the same order we speak it:

Wheezer: "February 17, 2017."

That makes you an American (or at least American influenced). We would say 17th February 2017.

The problem arises with the need to abbreviate dates for computer purposes; is 12/6/1982 in June or December? Answer; use alpha characters for the month

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

The problem arises with the need to abbreviate dates for computer purposes; is 12/6/1982 in June or December? Answer; use alpha characters for the month

Mind you, every date you see in a computer generated display is just a trick of a display setting and a calculation because the computers count time as a growing number from a set start date and then put it into the ordered display format

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

The problem arises with the need to abbreviate dates for computer purposes; is 12/6/1982 in June or December? Answer; use alpha characters for the month

Mind you, every date you see in a computer generated display is just a trick of a display setting and a calculation because the computers count time as a growing number from a set start date and then put it into the ordered display format

I know but when I am asked to input a date 20 times an hour for several hours it is too easy to miss checking whether it is for an American, British or whatever site. Worse, some UK sites are starting to use that dam**d Google dating system

Wheezer ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

That makes you an American (or at least American influenced). We would say 17th February 2017.

Of course it does. I was replying to Dominions Son's remark about the US (civilian) way of writing dates, which corresponds with our common way of speaking a date. I did err in my example by having the time traveler ask for the day instead of the date. Asking for the day would get a reply of "Tuesday," or whatever day of the week it was, whereas asking for the date would get the MM/DD/YYYY reply I gave in the example. Hey, it's just American English, that's all.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@sejintenej

The problem arises with the need to abbreviate dates for computer purposes; is 12/6/1982 in June or December?

It seems simple to me, December 6th, 1982, a Pearl Harbor Day eve. The month comes first when giving a date. Who would say Christmas is on 25 December?

Replies:   Dominions Son  Grant
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Who would say Christmas is on 25 December?

Anyone living in the EU?

I was born and raised in The US state of Wisconsin and I have heard plenty of local people say dates as the nth of month, so Christmas is the 25th of December.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Who would say Christmas is on 25 December?

Anyone living in the EU?

Certainly the UK and France. It's not EU but AFAIR that goes for verbal Portuguese in Brasil - can't remember the written format

Grant ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

Who would say Christmas is on 25 December?

That's the date we have Christmas here in Australia.
Although we'd say it as the "25th of December"

tphile2 ๐Ÿšซ

back to the original topic. I wish Warlord finished his stories especially Scout and Atlantis.
How long does it take for a story to be inactive, discontinued or abandoned? In those cases I wish someone in charge or who knows would post the reason why. Did the author die, retire,or what? and at the very least post what was planned to happen in the story if completed. Don't leave fans hanging.
Also Privateer by DeRat was supposed to have a sequel but its been several years now with no word. and he planned his own version of Warlords Atlantis.

Replies:   REP  Ernest Bywater
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@tphile2

I know exactly what you mean. That has been something that has irritated me and others, also.

Unfortunately, SOL does not track authors; it would be an major effort. Lazeez and the rest of us may not know why an author has not completed a story or why the author has not posted a story on the site for years. Those who may know the why, may not be sharing it for privacy or other reasons.

About the only way for an average reader to learn why is to go to the author's blog and hope the author or someone has posted an explanation. The reason may also be made known here in the Forum, but I doubt the average reader visits the Forum. A good example is the recent death of Invid Fan. Notification of his death was posted in his blog by a friend, and his death was a topic in the Forum.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@tphile2

In those cases I wish someone in charge or who knows would post the reason why.

When the web master is informed of why by someone who has credible authority to do so, the information is added to the profile - - the reasoning is rarely provided.

The yellow stripe usually appears after there's been more than 12 months since the last update.

John Demille ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

Appropriately for this thread, a long, long running story that has been long dormant just got updated few minutes ago.

Pete: A Young Man's Story by Magi Just got a new chapter after 6 years of inactivity.

kimlsevier ๐Ÿšซ

I learned to use the yyyy/mm/dd/hh/mm format when filing messages in the Air National Guard. IIRC, the ANG called it the Julian dating system.

Replies:   Dominions Son  Capt. Zapp  REP
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@kimlsevier

ANG called it the Julian dating system.

That's odd because the Julian calendar which was used by the Roman Empire didn't have months. The dates were YYYY/DDD or DDD/YYYY

Capt. Zapp ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@kimlsevier

I learned to use the yyyy/mm/dd/hh/mm format when filing messages in the Air National Guard. IIRC, the ANG called it the Julian dating system.

The military must have changed things. The Julian date calendar used when I was active duty had no months or dates. It just counted the number of days into the year. January 1st was 001, New Years Eve was 365 (or 366 in a leap year)

ETA: I just realized that was the same thing DS said only he included the year.

REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@kimlsevier

Julian dating system

The Julian dating system does not use the month and day. It uses a number that represents the day is the Xth day of 365 days. 285:1450 - 2:50 PM on the 285th day of the year.

LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

I was only peripherally involved with ISO 9000 back in the mid 90s, but the perception I got was that the only thing it really did was attempt to make sure the site had very good documentation. It does nothing directly to ensure that the actual process matches the documentation or how well the product is made. The only feedback I saw was how well the finished product matched the design specifications. If it doesn't either you have poor or outdated documentation or you aren't following. Either way, when the time comes for the next audit you will have some 'splainin to do', to steal a line from an old TV show. [Five points if you can identify the show and the character.]

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

ISO 9000

it was all about documenting what you do, how you do it, and showing you adhere to the documented process. If you later improved a process you had to go through it all again to reflect the change. I know of some organisations who refused to get involved because of how it delayed making improvements so hard and so long. The sad things was the way some government organisations refused to deal with people in some industries unless they had the ISO 9000 certification. The result was in some areas they didn't deal with anyone in the top 10% of the field due to them not bothering with it. I know of one case where the government couldn't deal with a company due to the lack of the ISO 9000 certification, yet the company was the recognised industry leader and also the one with the best practices for the industry others were measured against.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

The sad things was the way some government organisations refused to deal with people in some industries unless they had the ISO 9000 certification.

I agree EB. What I have found is that many people think ISO 9000 controls the quality of the finished product. The people running your government organizations probably held that mistaken opinion.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

I agree EB. What I have found is that many people think ISO 9000 controls the quality of the finished product. The people running your government organizations probably held that mistaken opinion.

These are the same people that rather than pick an industry standard measure for a product just slap a MILSPEC on it, not realizing what extra expense that added to the product. Then they wonder why everyone gets upset over $400 hammers. I spent six months in Wackytown back in the late 80s working on a government bid for a large telecom network. You don't want to know some of the hoops we had to jump through.

I agree with REP, getting ISO certified just means that everything is documented properly and hopefully the procedures are being followed at the time of certification. After that, it depends on how strongly management makes everyone toe the line every day. If everyone sees that management has bought into the idea and is serious about it, it should happen. If they see management paying lip service to get the cert, oh well.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

back in the late 80s working on a government bid for a large telecom network. You don't want to know some of the hoops we had to jump through.

I was working for Stanford Telecom in that time frame, so our employers may have been competitors for the same contract.

Military specifications have a valid purpose and they are a good thing when properly applied. Somewhere in my stash I have a breakdown of the costs associated with that $400 hammer. The majority of those costs are documentation, management, and administration. If I recall the actually purchase price of the hammer was about $8.00 Somewhere, I also have a similar cost breakdown of a toilet seat for use on military aircraft; same scenario.

The only times that mil-spec makes sense is when the end product is to be exposed to extremes in environment or usage and when the item's failure will place the user's life at risk. A perfect example is the electronics in a radio that might be used in the artic (sub-zero temp), the desert (110+F temp), or in high humidity environments where mold or corrosion might develop and short out the circuitry.

REP ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

or how well the product is made

I was involved in my company's effort because they were scheduled for a recertification. The documentation the ISO group maintained had nothing to do with the engineering documentation generated, although the ISO documentation defined the process used to generate the documentation. The content of the engineering documentation could be crap, but as long as the crap was generated in the approved manner it met the ISO criteria. ISO is about the manufacturing lines processes and procedures, not what was produced. The theory, flawed in my opinion, was using the proper processes and procedures would result in a quality product. It worked. If the engineering department designed a piece of crap documenting it properly, the manufacturing line produced a high quality piece of crap.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

you will have some 'splainin to do', to steal a line from an old TV show. [Five points if you can identify the show and the character.]

"I love Lucy" is the show. The line is by the husband, "Ricky Ricardo" on the show, Desi Arnaz the actor, Lucile Ball's husband at the time.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

you will have some 'splainin to do', to steal a line from an old TV show. [Five points if you can identify the show and the character.]

"I love Lucy" is the show. The line is by the husband, "Ricky Ricardo" on the show, Desi Arnaz the actor, Lucile Ball's husband at the time.

Now the burning question of the day: Did you watch it when it aired, or on a rerun? :-)

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@LonelyDad

Now the burning question of the day: Did you watch it when it aired, or on a rerun? :-)

I could have watched the original although my family didn't get a TV until 1953 when we got back from Germany. But what I remember is from several re-runs and programs about the program. I have no idea when.

Rambulator ๐Ÿšซ

A eight hour a day 5 days a week job doing all of the PAPERWORK involved. I was involved with ISO9000 from the beginning at my last job. After 12 years I had some health problems due to stress. I still have some health problems but now it's due to getting older instead of work.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ

@Rambulator

A eight hour a day 5 days a week job doing all of the PAPERWORK involved.

I can understand that Rambulator. I only worked with my iso group for about 6 months, and that was long enough. An hour or so to review and learn how a line process was to be performed, an hour or so talking to the people on the line about how they actually did the process, another hour with the line manager going over the discrepancies between what should be done and what was being done and to fix those discrepancies, and then a couple of hours changing the PAPERWORK.

rustyken ๐Ÿšซ

When the organization I worked for decided to be ISO 9000 certified, the motto used in preparing the documentation was: "Do what you say, Say what you do." That is where the focus was. ISO 9000 also has 4 associated standards, if my memory is correct.

Cheers

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@rustyken

ISO 9001:2015 is principally a world wide recognised set of rules which companies implement with the aim of enhancing product or service quality within their organisation.

In the UK, BT is ISO 9001 certified. The last two years it has won the Daily Mail 'Wooden Spoon' award for having the worst customer service in the UK.

As other responders have pointed out, whatever the original intention, ISO 9001 actually has no beneficial impact on quality of products or services.

AJ

LonelyDad ๐Ÿšซ

If I had to categorize, I would say Libertarian, with a good dose of horse sense thrown in. {Some Libertarians don't have the sense God gave a squirrel, but that applies to almost any group) I'm reminded of the saying "Good sense comes from experience, which comes from not having good sense."

bubbag ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@1111

Yes! And Warlord was doing a GREAT time travel western that has languished for years now.

I guess it's like writers in all genres. They develop characters that resonate for their readers. Those readers in turn want more of their "friends" and what writer for profit is going to say "no"?

I think that's what happened with Hillerman and several of the mystery writers. It got to the point where I'd have to check the copyright date to see if I'd read that particular novel. Same thing with Robert Parker. I LOVED his Spencer for Hire series. I'd buy his books in hard cover, but by the end--instead of character depth and interesting plots, all he was doing was entering dialogue. Lots of white space, triple-spaced, short chapters. He stayed at the party too long. But I can see why he did. As long as fans kept buying books....

odundairo77 ๐Ÿšซ

A time of eden and elves. Chronicles of the Spartan series by mike cropo

Replies:   ChiMi
ChiMi ๐Ÿšซ

@odundairo77

A time of eden and elves. Chronicles of the Spartan series by mike cropo

I only read book 1, found the premise and setting really cool, but was outraged at the character stupidity and awful decisions to advance or make the plot.
I hadn't decided to set the series on hold until the last chapter. the stupid decision to let them go, while the enemy has an important hostage, broke the camels back.

Does it get better? I have nothing against mistakes but stupidity for plot's sake is just awful.

odundairo77 ๐Ÿšซ

@ChiMi

Okay. That was just a small part of the big picture of the story. I advice you to read it more for a better understanding and don't give. Up

Harold Wilson ๐Ÿšซ

@ChiMi

Does it get better? I have nothing against mistakes but stupidity for plot's sake is just awful.

No, it gets worse. Remember when you were a kid, and you designed things "by committee"?

"Our superhero is going to be super strong! And fast, like the Flash! And be able to talk to fish like Aquaman! And have a toolbelt like Batman!"

That's Eden & Elves. Every time the story slows down a little bit, he adds yet another story cliche. Werewolves. Vampires. Zombies. Aliens. Death Star. Magic. Technology. Mecha. Singing. Dancing. Tap dancing. Carmen Miranda. Carmen Sandiego. Dragons. Dungeons. Horse-thieves. Bull dykes. Ass-kickers, shit-kickers, and ...

Methodists.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@Harold Wilson

Bull dykes. Ass-kickers, shit-kickers, and ...

Methodists.

Thank you, Hedley ....

nucdoc ๐Ÿšซ

Amy's Smile by jfinn is my original keep looking up to see if it has been finished on SOL. Still waiting ...

Pursuit of the Older Woman by Victor Klineman was last added to 10 years ago last month. (3/08) Still check.

blurred ๐Ÿšซ

@1111

Whatever happened to Joe?

Banadin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

As a just retired certification auditor to the ISO standards I can tell you that the posters are correct in many statements but have missed a critical part of the standards. Yes they can follow procedure and end up with crap. But they are supposed to track the crap, internal and external and learn from it and React to it. I could bore you to death with stories of companies who didn't get this. I wrote hundreds of nonconformances in my career and suspended many a certificate. Some learned and got better, some didn't and most just got by. Like most things they got back what they put into it. A certificate is a piece of paper, it is the product or service that is provided that counts. But you have a better chance with a certified company the same as any group or individual that has professional certification. I have audited everything from aircraft carriers to rubber plantations. Same everywhere.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Banadin

The Chief Fire Officer in charge at Grenfell told residents to stay inside because his procedures told him that if the building had fire-retardant cladding, that was the safest option.

The Chief Fire Officer saw that the cladding was actually spreading the fire and didn't know what to do. Faced with using common sense or following procedure, he opted for the latter.

That sums up the malaise currently benighting the UK's public services. People achieve positions of responsibility with little or no practical experience at ground level, and procedures are followed blindly when they're clearly orthogonal to common sense.

Despite its original good intentions, ISO9000 accreditation has, on balance, probably turned out to be a bad thing.

AJ

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

In one of my jobs, I assisted my company's ISO 9000 department with preparing for a review of our manufacturing group's ISO 9000 documentation. The principle behind ISO 9000 certification was to ensure a company would continue to produce the same level of quality that it produced at the time the company was certified as ISO 9000 compliant. Compliant means the company has documented the procedures and processes that were used to produce a product. To remain compliant, the company must continue using the documented procedures and processes to product future product. If the company wishes to do so, they can make changes to the documented procedures and processes and once the revised documentation is released, the company must conform to the revised documentation.

Thus ISO 9000 certification means a company uses the same manufacturing procedures and processes to produce their product. The certification does not mean those procedures and processes will result in the company producing a quality product. It just means the company will continue to produce the same level of quality that it produced in the past, assuming of course that the company does not modify those procedures and processes.

In a worst case scenario, a company can document the use of poor quality materials, inappropriate processes, and poor procedures for production of a product. As long as the company complies with their documentation, they are compliant with ISO 9000.

Replies:   rustyken
rustyken ๐Ÿšซ

@REP

ISO 9000 can be summed up with "Say what you do. Do what you say." Poor execution undermines it in both perception and fact.

Sparky-1953 ๐Ÿšซ

My two cent's worth:
#1- Ex-Alpha Geek's THE DJINNI AND THE LAMPS
#2- OrbLover's REBBECCA AND LUIS: NIS
#3- Colt 45's MAYHEM series
#4- Raven Soul's TYCOON
#5- Black Coffee's SPARKS series
#6- All of Morgan's unfinished stories (except KATE AND FREINDS)
#7- Joe J's EL PASO BORDER WAR and the promised sequel to JOHNNY PULASKI
#8- All of Warlord's unfinished stories
#9- Dual Writer's promised sequel to RECLUSE AND GHOST
#10- D A Porter's incomplete stories
#11- Laz Long's SILENT ENDINGS-NEW BEGINNINGS

I know and understand that some of these writers may no longer be with us but I can WISH can't I/

Replies:   Zellus
Zellus ๐Ÿšซ

@Sparky-1953

https://storiesonline.net/a/exalphageek
https://storiesonline.net/a/Orblover
https://storiesonline.net/a/colt45
https://storiesonline.net/a/Raven_Soule
https://storiesonline.net/a/black_coffee
https://storiesonline.net/a/Morgan
https://storiesonline.net/a/Joe_J
https://storiesonline.net/a/Warlord
https://storiesonline.net/a/Dual_Writer
https://storiesonline.net/a/D_A_Porter
https://storiesonline.net/a/Lazlong

Finbar_Saunders ๐Ÿšซ

The Private by Random Writings

tendertouch ๐Ÿšซ

My picks:
'Laura Alban Hunt' by Gina Marie Wylie
'The Djinni and the Lamps' by exalphageek
'Amanda's Eyes' by Woodwiz
'The Strange Adventures of Cinnamon' by sam177
'Adam's Own' by Yoron (though it also needs to be proofread by someone with English as their first language.)
'Close to Home' by Cindy for Sin
'Claire - Book 2' by AJ Martin

Sure, as long as we're just wishing I'd love to see Celtic Cowboy's stories finished along with D A Porter's but I don't see it happening. I'd also like to see the remainder of the one Celtic Cowboy was working on that hadn't gotten to SOL yet but, again, it won't happen.

Sparky-1953 ๐Ÿšซ

@tendertouch, this IS a wish list. One I forgot to add was Golden Mage. His son started to continue his work but that didn't last.

1111 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

A chance visit to the Forum pages and imagine my surprise to see my original topic posted 3 years ago still attracting responses!

Since I'm here anyway, let me give a plug to the 'A Fresh Start' universe, the sequel by rlfj and the ancillary story by XofDallas were both excellent, and have left me wanting more.
Chris aka 1111

renandcot ๐Ÿšซ

Two authors come to mind that I would love for them to finish their stories
first one is Warlord. I was on his site for awhile as I thought the stories were excellent and was eager for updates, but no such luck
The other is Regis Peona. "The Iron Ankh" It had the usual mind control Tags but it had really interesting premiss and I wondered where the story would takes us. Even though his/her blog states they hate unfinished stories, the story is incomplete. alas such is life

Replies:   Keet
Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@renandcot

Two authors come to mind that I would love for them to finish their stories
first one is Warlord. I was on his site for awhile as I thought the stories were excellent and was eager for updates, but no such luck

Warlord passed away in 2017. FantasyLover wrote a conclusion for Warlord's story Scout.

aranturo ๐Ÿšซ

The Bitch by MisterNiceGuy. Dude up and disappeared.

Replies:   Beteez
Beteez ๐Ÿšซ

@aranturo

Blog post today by him that he will begin posting Tuesday.

whodoo ๐Ÿšซ

Wild Willies A unremarkable town
Warlord's Wild west
Al Steiner's A lost generation

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

I'll add https://storiesonline.net/s/63085/displacement
To the slush pile. Do-over/multiverse/time travel with interesting characters and plot. When I reached the last page I swore out loud in frustration.
The author has more incomplete than complete works and his blog suggests health and money woes, so I doubt it will ever be finished.

Replies:   bk69
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@Radagast

Interesting. While his blog is inactive for many years, he hasn't been archived. So you could always try contacting him and asking permission to take over his story for him...

Other great unfinished works... Warlord had a few. Not sure if Net Wolf/YellowSnow/IcePhoenix finished all of his own. Blackie never finished 'The Book' (or maybe it was just 'The Institute' that didn't get finished?) And Supposedly 'Hallers Catch' was good.

Radagast ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

Those who can, do. Those who can't, criticize. I'm a critic, not a writer.

steeltiger ๐Ÿšซ

Amy's Smile by Jfinn. Darn I wish he had finished that. We were so close and then...nothing.
It was one of first ongoing stories i followed, and its abrupt non-ending was incredibly irritating.
Ah well, Jfinn, wherever you are, I hope you find a suitable finish eventually!

moondog_199 ๐Ÿšซ

Great thread - I've discovered many great stories here, only to deal with the incomplete aspect!

Looks like time to add "Flight of the Code Monkey" to the MIA list, as over 12 months since last updated by Kid Wigger. Hope fades after such a delay, but I will live in hope....

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@moondog_199

but I will live in hope....

just be careful not to take a job in the next west town and having to move over to Deep Regret.

shiloh1 ๐Ÿšซ

Get Cold Creek to finish Defenseman 3

Replies:   ystokes
ystokes ๐Ÿšซ

@shiloh1

Get Cold Creek to finish Defenseman 3

A good story but had 2 issues with it. I hated how he let all the women treat him like shit. And how he made hockey sound like the plays were planed when it looks like pure caos to me.

Replies:   bk69  DBActive
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@ystokes

Some of hockey is planned in advance. Some is planned on the fly (Wayne Gretzky was 'great' because he could get the puck, evaluate everyone's position, and create a play that would result in a good scoring chance... almost instantaneously. Players who came up through, IIRC, the Swedish national program generally can anticipate what other players who came up through the same program will do. Yes, there's a lot of improvisation done by the best players from NA, but there's still a lot of system. The boring style of the old NJ Devils was entirely system - if you keep the other team's score below two, you'll almost always win a really boring game, at the risk of turning the sport into soccer on skates.

DBActive ๐Ÿšซ

@ystokes

Hockey, like basketball, rugby and soccer, is planned. During chaos, players (on good teams) know their position, the movements that their teammates will take and the location where they will be. It allows them to, for example, make blind passes to teammates.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

Hockey, like basketball, rugby and soccer, is planned.

To a degree.

The first casualty in any battle is the plan. Why would hockey be any different.

Replies:   bk69
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Because hockey players are smarter than soldiers. So there's all sorts of contingencies involved in every plan. In this situation, you do this thing, and the response of the other team determines if the next part of the plan is from plan A, B, C, D, or E. How the opposition responds to that determines if you continue with plan D1, D2, D3, or D4.

shiloh1 ๐Ÿšซ

Still don't understand how the great one survived.. with all the neanderthals on a hockey team

Replies:   bk69
bk69 ๐Ÿšซ

@shiloh1

Simple.

1. He had a bodyguard on ice with him at all times.
2. League made it known it would come down hard on anyone who even thought about hurting him.

Jason Samson ๐Ÿšซ

I just came across Amends by AA Nemo

https://storiesonline.net/s/65451/amends

Absolutely fantastically gripping and well written. Really wishing it would carry on!

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

Thanks to the site's random story functions, I came across a story I'd very much like to see finished - 'Chimera' by Futurus.

Health warning - the story desperately needs a good proofreader: it's not particularly easy to read.

AJ

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

I wonder if she'll complete it, but why else would she begin posting it.

boost site traffic since she knows a lot of people were interested in it in the past. Let me know if she does actually finish it. Too often she's said she'll never finish it, so it's hard to say if she has or will.

Grant ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

I wonder if she'll complete it, but why else would she begin posting it.

Going to remove it from here?

In her Publishing Schedule 2017 she says she's posting a revised version as she doesn't have much of her current stories ready for posting. There may be a couple of additional chapters, and while it is possible she do further work on it, it's not very likely.

Replies:   Nizzgrrl
Nizzgrrl ๐Ÿšซ

@Grant

Okay.

I guess I'm not too old to learn. But darn. There I go down that primrose path again.

I should have looked up her blog, forum, or whatever. Oh well, I hope she's healing and feeling better.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

right wing echo chamber

Depending on your point of view, she may be a little Republican for your tastes, especially if you really liked some of our Democrat Presidents, but she isn't alt-right and as I recall isn't all that fond of Trump. Everybody has their own opinion (like assholes, everybody has one) and yours can vary from hers and other frequent posters over there. I post very occasionally and others disagree without shouting me down. I recommend others review postings there and add their opinions or facts. Others may not agree but they won't recommend you stop posting unless you do something really outrageous. It seems one of the "don't touch" topics is now available for discussion. It was about Spitfire and Messerschmitt.

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