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Best Discontinued Stories

1111

Joe J made me break a promise I made to myself. I had resolved not to read any on-going serials and wait until the story was complete before starting but his excellent "El Paso" was quickly followed up with El Paso - Border War, which I immediately followed and, you guessed it, it's been discontinued!

I'd like to start a new thread on best discontinued stories or series you'd like to see finished. Along with "El Paso Border War", I'd put "Intemperance III" up there also with Frank Downey/Don Lockwood's "Rewind".

madnige

Spitfire and Messerschmitt

But don't mention it to Gina!

Replies:   Wheezer
Argon

@1111

Murder Isle by Mac the Knife, small chance of that, but a guy can hope.

Capt Zapp
Updated:

@1111

I too would like to see 'Rewind' completed. Others I would like include, but are not limited to, 'The Orb', 'Five Thousand Years From Home', and anything by Cmsix.

Wheezer
Updated:

@madnige

I loved the story, but GMW's attitude toward her readers about S&M (and her other incomplete stories) as well as her increasingly preachy political leanings making their way into her stories makes it difficult for me to want to read any of her newer works.

docholladay

@Capt Zapp

Cmsix


I haven't had any email from him in a long time. Last I heard from him he was in a nursing home in Texas. I just sent him a note hopefully he will respond but from what he has indicated in the past about his family. If something has gone wrong they won't tell us or anyone else.

ustourist

A series I would love to see finished is by Black_Coffee, as the intended third part mentioned in 2012 hasn't yet been seen here. Hopefully that will emerge as the earlier two parts both had high scores.
......End of book Two, The Gunny and Lenore. Book three, Tinker, Statesman, Soldier, Sailor, Spy will follow.

Replies:   sejintenej
garymrssn

I'd like to see the completion of Melissa's Secrets by Pookie. I haven't had any success finding out what has happened to the author so I don't have much hope for the story being finished.

Replies:   ngc1234  sweetbiscui2004
Shinerdrinker

Here is one... Julian Coreto's Alan.

It was one of the first erotica stories I ever read. It is in dire need of fixing but in even more dire need of completion.

sejintenej

@ustourist

A series I would love to see finished is by Black_Coffee, as the intended third part mentioned in 2012 hasn't yet been seen here. Hopefully that will emerge as the earlier two parts both had high scores.

......End of book Two, The Gunny and Lenore. Book three, Tinker, Statesman, Soldier, Sailor, Spy will follow.

I'll echo that and add Dman3 which hasn't been updated since December 2014 when Cold Creek wrote that he had started the next chapter. He had also asked readers' opinions as to whom Mike should end up with

MarissaHorne

Raven Soule's Tycoon.

The author took the story up to the day when both sides in the confli ct were to make their big moves. Then it stopped.

Unfortunately, Raven Soule is (or was) fighting a series of battles with cancer. Whether he survived I don't know.

Replies:   remarcsd
Wheezer

Although not technically a discontinued story, I think "Island Mine" by Refusnik deserves a sequel. He ended it decisively, but IMHO, ripe for a sequel. Unfortunately, he has shown no inclination to write one.

ustourist

@Wheezer

I venture to disagree there. I think that creating a sequel as good as the original would be near impossible, and therefore if he tried that he could well end up devaluing what he had written.
As it is, he leaves an excellent story with - as you say - a decisive ending, albeit one that does make you wonder what could happen next. I think it is better that way.

Replies:   Wheezer
Ernest Bywater

@Wheezer

He ended it decisively,


I don't think it was decisive ending so much as an indicator of more to come by sticking a finger up at the others.

Wheezer

@ustourist

IMHO, Refusnik is a skilled enough writer that he could do an excellent job of writing a successful sequel to "Island Mine." Unless...he is thee, and this is a subtle way of saying it ain't gonna happen. ;)

ustourist

@Wheezer

Regrettably, I have not one iota of the writing talent displayed by Refusenik.
For a writer to come here, post three stories, and have an average above 9 may be unique, and I would like to see more of his work but have a feeling it may not occur since it is now some considerable time since the last one was posted.

invidian

@1111

Michael K Smith's "Siblings". He was writing chapters out of order from an outline, and for whatever reason stopped. He's still posting short stories with an incest theme.

remarcsd

@MarissaHorne

Raven Soule's Tycoon


My vote as well.

awnlee jawking

@Wheezer

Wasn't Refusenik contacted by a commercial publisher about one of his previous stories? 'Human Phoenix'? I agree with your sentiment, Refusenik is an excellent writer.

AJ

Replies:   Wheezer
ngc1234
Updated:

@garymrssn

I'd like to see the completion of Melissa's Secrets by Pookie.

Well, there were six years (!) between chapters 14 and 15, so there is still hope. I still remember seeing it come up on my "Active Serials" list out of the blue in 2011...

Wheezer

@awnlee jawking

I have no idea. Was this info posted in his SOL
blog?

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Wheezer

Now I'm wondering whether I've confused him with another author in this respect. But I'm not confused about the excellence of his stories.

AJ

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist

@awnlee jawking

If any new author here deserved that attention from a commercial publisher then he definitely qualified for it.
I don't think anyone with credibility could challenge the excellence of them.
Interesting that everyone is assuming a 'he' though, (and I include myself in that). The stories themselves don't really show any gender bias in the writing, though I am sure he must have lived in NW Texas at some point from the accurate description of the area, so that may narrow down the search.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@ustourist

I traded a couple of emails with Refusenik Nik a couple of years ago. I sent him a message a couple of days ago asking if there was anything new in the works, but no reply yet.

Replies:   ustourist  odave44
ustourist

@Wheezer

Thanks for the update.
Much appreciated (and fingers crossed!)
:0)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@ustourist

Ditto - since there isn't a 'like' facility.

On the subject of gender, I've just discovered that the Gender Genie has disappeared.

AJ

jr88

My personal favorite is A Master's Ring by ElSol.

I have hope that it may someday be finished.

Also worth mentioning is the DMan series by Cold Creek. It has been almost a year since the last update, and that was a year after the one before that.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@jr88

Ditto! I also would like to see ElSol continue the Curandero series. Hey ElSol! Ya listening? ;)

Replies:   El_Sol  samuelmichaels
kimlsevier

Reprobate Rodent's "The Case of The Duplicate Duke."

Replies:   samuelmichaels
docholladay

@Capt Zapp

anything by Cmsix


Okay here is the original version of Nanovirus still available online for reading or downloading as individual chapters.
http://www.asstr.org/~cmsix/nanovirusov/index.htm

He has other stories there as well although no where near as many as currently posted on SOL. Considering the lack of communication from him recently. Anyone interested might want to grab it while its still available.

Replies:   shinerdrinker
shinerdrinker

@docholladay

I actually liked reading both versions just to see the differences between the two. I mean he actually tries to tie them all up into one universe. I don't know if he was trying to do that from the beginning or if he saw it was possible while writing.

But he definitely left the opening to continue the universal stories either through a new story or continuing both "Nanovirus" and "John and Argent."

Awesome stories both of them anyway.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@shinerdrinker

That is a fact. I found out when we were writing each other more often. He was trying to merge three stories into the same universe. "Nanovirus", "John and Argent" and "I feel Lucky" were the planned mergers. I told him that it looked like "I feel Lucky" was not going to merge properly. In fact I still believe that one was his gift/talent/muse trying to save the foundation for most of his stories. I should have used that argument when we were talking about it. Most of his major stories were time/multi-dimensional as a rule. In the "Nanovirus" story he for all intents and purposes kills off the dimension that all those stories depended on. I think "I Feel Lucky" was his gift trying to create a dimensional split to save the foundation of his gift. He really started having trouble finishing stories when he decided to merge the three of them.

El_Sol

@Wheezer

Good news on writing front -- I have been writing again using reddit's writing prompt sub, but they are basically flash stories.

Bad news on writing front -- if my bosses are smart they will relocate me to a company that we bought who seriously needs operations people to save them from their own suicidal tendencies about operations work and/or shooting for baby #2.

So life is still being life.

MarissaHorne

I was rereading this thread and realised I'd forgotten one of my favourite discontinued stories.

Redeeming Halloween by StarCrawler.

They just disappeared off the face of the site some 18 months back leaving the story hanging.

Shame.

smask

Some oldies:

Artie - The Golden Mule 2
Al Steiner - A lost Generation / Greenies Prequel(s)
Al Steiner - Intemperance 3

BlinkReader

There is another one that nobody mentioned:
Barbe Blanche - Bow Valley
(http://storiesonline.net/s/66725/bow-valley)

I'm afraid that there is no chance that this story is ever going to be finished.

When we are speaking about this kind of events (authors who are no longer among us) - is there any chance that somebody else got chance to finish (at lease some) stories?

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@BlinkReader

From what I have read in other writers remarks. The odds are slim to none. Probably the only chance even as a long shot would be for one to take and write their own version based on a particular story. But even that has lousy odds.

BlinkReader

Maybe that ought to put bug in somebody's ear:

For example, maybe to pronounce all stories inactive and uncompleted more than let's say five (5) years to be free for grab and for completing (should first agree on some mechanism to do so), or to give them to group of (most) active authors on site, or (give us another idea)...

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@BlinkReader

pronounce all stories inactive and uncompleted more than let's say five (5) years to be free for grab and for completing


No can do, not legal - copyright violation unless the original author gives their approval, which is unlikely.

BlinkReader

Americans are so riddled with copyright. One day you all are going to find that your own lives are copyrighted and that you can not live them anymore :D

If I'm correct - this site is mostly for stories free given to read.
Shouldn't it be enough to keep deceased Authors data written in story with some added explanation (maybe from site owner (or somebody else) ?

(PS: mr. Bywater am I right that you have some mayor connections with "down under"?)

docholladay

@BlinkReader

Maybe in some ways. But as I see it and it has nothing whatsoever to do with man made laws. Stealing is stealing whether its something physical or mental (stories, etc.). Its okay to take the basic idea or theme of someone else and develop a version of your own as long as some form of credit is given. Now some ideas and themes become so common place in usage that giving a specific credit is not needed.
Your idea boils down to stealing their work. Sure I would love to see many of those stories finished, but that is impossible in many cases. Best case then is for someone else to take that theme or idea and create their own story based on it. New story, new characters (other stories characters if used at all have to be as a minor support character). Its the same way when a historical person is used in a story during that time period. The person can be used as a character, but the known historical facts about them can not be changed in anyway.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@BlinkReader


If I'm correct - this site is mostly for stories free given to read.


The authors own the copyright, they give SOL the right to display the stories for people to read them free of charge, kind of like you can read a story in a library. At no point does the author surrender any of the rights to the site or the world in general. I know there is a myth that anything on the Internet is free to use, but it's a myth; most things are free to read or view, but not free to use at all.

Yes, I'm an Australian, and Ernest Bywater is my real name and what I most often write under, I also write the Clan Amir series as Ernest Edwards due to a request for a different name from a publisher. I also have a nickname I use on some forums of Deadly or Deadly Ernest - a nickname given to me back in the mid 1960s.

typo edit

Dominions Son

@BlinkReader

Americans are so riddled with copyright. One day you all are going to find that your own lives are copyrighted and that you can not live them anymore :D


Do you really think anywhere else is better? A lot of the aspects of copyright law are dictated by international treaties (primarily the Bern Convention).

Dominions Son

@docholladay

Stealing is stealing whether its something physical or mental (stories, etc.).


Stealing is taking something away from someone.

Plagiarism while wrong does not take the work away from the original author.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

Plagiarism while wrong does not take the work away from the original author.


It takes away the recognition and the honour of being known to have written it. It's the same as having just won first place in an Olympic ski event only to see them hand the medal to someone who came if sixth place but they got the names mixed up and they get the honour and rewards.

Replies:   tppm
tppm

@Ernest Bywater

It takes away the recognition and the honour of being known to have written it.


And remuneration, if any. All an author gets here is egoboo, but some places actually pay money for (the right to publish) writing.

Wheezer
Updated:

We all seem to be very sensitive on the subject of copyright and respect for authors on SOL, even those with long inactive/incomplete stories where the author has vanished or is known to have died.

And Yet..........

Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators?

Yes, I know the authors of Fan-Fic love the characters, worlds & story universes they write about, but those are the original works of someone else. Not all that different, imho. What is different about writing a new story that picks up where an abandoned story leaves off and writing a story using characters & places created by a mainstream author or from a popular movie?

Replies:   docholladay  LonelyDad
docholladay

@Wheezer

Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators?


As I mentioned above, it recognizes the original version and creator. Most fan fiction will not change the original characters or story but instead will link those into their own stories. The common links make it fan fiction the same as common links are used in the "Damsels in Distress" universe with admittedly an open invitation to write in it. The writers all acknowledge those rules in some form or other. Stealing is when you call the entirety of something your own when its based on the work of someone else. And some of that is an outright copy with only minor changes such as the character names.

Ideas and themes can and usually do become common. But it never hurts to acknowledge the original when known. Recognition and honor or respect is deserved for them at least and sometimes the respect is worth more than gold.

LonelyDad

@Wheezer

Wheezer wrote:
"Fan Fiction is a popular type of story on SOL. What is Fan-Fic but a disregard for the copyrights and trademarks of the original writers or creators? "

And some authors have vigorously defended their copyrights against fan fiction, with the support of the courts. Others have warned that fan fiction will not be allowed and will be prosecuted. There have been cases where a fan-fic author has sued the original author for supposed plagiarism as the author continued their story line. And there are instances where the original author didn't care but didn't explicitly give permission, and later the estate took exception vigorously. If I were an author, it is a thin and wavy line I wouldn't wat to trip over. Yes, it is very unlikely to happen here, but why mess with your Karma?

Replies:   John Demille
John Demille

@LonelyDad

I would argue that authors objecting to fanfic do so out of insecurity and low self confidence. They're afraid that somebody would show them off by writing a better story than they would with their own settings and characters.

Otherwise, it's stupid to object. Fan-Fiction increases a universe's fanbase. The more people know about the universe through fan fiction, the more likely it is that the original author would make more money from follow up stories that he could write in his universe. An author could charge licensing fees for use of their characters.

I think copyright law is the wrong law to work with fan fiction. Trademark law is the more precise match for Fan Fiction.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@John Demille


I would argue that authors objecting to fanfic do so out of insecurity and low self confidence. They're afraid that somebody would show them off by writing a better story than they would with their own settings and characters.


I forget which series it was in, but one author who didn't used to have a problem with fanfic changed his mind when a book he was in the middle of writing had to be dumped because a fanfic piece using the same basic concept (one part foreshadowed in an earlier book) came out and the original author had legal concerns about law suites for stealing the fanfic idea. he'd had the idea a long time but hadn't proof of how long he had it, the fan got fed up of waiting for the foreshadowed aspect to appear in the main series so he wrote a fanfic on it thinking the author had no intention of doing so.

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all, and that then leads to issues about what is part of the series and what isn't. Which is an issue an author does not like having to deal with.

edit to add. There's nothing stopping someone from writing a story set in a similar type of environment without doing it as fanfic. With fanfic the fanfic author is looking to jump off and leach off the originating author's work and get readers they'd never otherwise get.

Replies:   ustourist  Not_a_ID
ustourist
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all


I can imagine one area the author may be concerned about is the sexual aspect, either going into specific sexual acts with characters aimed at children (Harry Potter is a good example), or having their sexuality hijacked and the character made homosexual.

I can also imagine hijacking by the introduction of color or drug use, as many authors by intent leave the description of the main character somewhat open so more readers can identify with them.

If the author objects after those have happened, they will be subjected to vilification by the special interest groups, so prevention is better than damage control.

richardshagrin

Writing fiction about fans? Will the shit hit the fan? Fans have blades that move air. Its hard to think about a story about that function.

Maybe Fan fiction is stories about some kind of sports fan. Fan there is short for fanatic. Fanatic Fiction would be easier to write about. Might be a subgenre of military vs terrorists.

Maybe there are other kinds of fans. Ladies cooled themselves using fans. Sort of a Georgette Heyer story.

Are there other kinds of fan fiction?

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist

@richardshagrin

Are there other kinds of fan fiction?

GMW has written a lot of fan fiction in her Kinsella series.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@ustourist

I will give what I personally think is a safe linkage. Using DW's Florida Friends series as an example. That series has developed all kinds of businesses providing equipment and charter services among other things. Very few customers are actually named however. Safe links are using that empty customer area utilizing either equipment purchases, charter services or garments. Who knows how many potential links are there without messing with the story line as developed by DW. Business can be conducted either through salesmen or potentially one of his characters. Using those business products saves having to redo what is already available. This kind of link would also support his stories by giving customers to fill in the empty spaces.

Replies:   ustourist
gmontgomery

@1111

And then there's the fanfic the grew like topsy, Eric Flint's 1632 universe. What started out as simple fanfic has become a multi-million word enterprise, with Eric Flint clipping the coupons on his bonds.

ustourist

@docholladay

That is a very good example, and I agree, it does have a lot of potential for generating offshoots.
There are a couple of authors who have already used the Florida Friends universe as a reference point in their stories, though in a minor way. I think both Barneyr (employment of a pilot)and SmokinDriver (visiting the strip club) have, and there is another one nagging at the back of my mind as well.
Not really fan fiction since it was peripheral, but certainly using details already established in the mind of regular readers.
Apologies if my memory is at fault there, both to the authors mentioned and those not credited, should I have recalled incorrectly.
Presumably opening up any universe is permitting fan fiction, though I believe the universes have rules, whereas much fan fiction is haphazard.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@ustourist

Nice part is that there are openings for other links with other stories. My only personal limitation is that the other story's characters can only be used in similar ways to a historical figure used in fiction. Their names and characterization has become almost public domain, but the major facts about them can not be changed. Same goes for anyone elses characters regardless of what their part of any given story was.

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist

@docholladay

Their names and characterization has become almost public domain, but the major facts about them can not be changed. Same goes for anyone elses characters regardless of what their part of any given story was.

I only wish that was the case. unfortunately it seems many fan fiction writers don't have your sense of ethics, and on a much wider scale you have the movie industry with no morals or ethics at all.
Who would ever have considered that James Bond could be black or female, given the precise description of him, but that is being suggested, and there must be worse examples (though not being a movie buff I wouldn't notice in most cases).

Ernest Bywater

@ustourist

Who would ever have considered that James Bond could be black or female, given the precise description of him, but that is being suggested, and there must be worse examples


How about the movie Dune where a normal looking man who wears grey contact lenses to hide their blue in blue eyes turns into a 100 foot long and twenty foot high giant worm or the Starship Troops where a waist high giant spider that looks like a tarantula turns into a thirty foot high cross between a lobster and preying mantis. I think either of those might be worse examples.

Replies:   ustourist  Grant  El_Sol
ustourist

@Ernest Bywater

I think either of those might be worse examples.


No dispute about that from me!

BlinkReader

Wowww!

Who would think that one small post from someone from god forgotten country behind seven seas and ravaged with seven wars, would spark so big debate?

I was just asking if some idea would be possible without any legal knowledge about your copyright.
When I received good explanation, I was satisfied and just put one joke to end this small regression from theme.

And please, excuse me if I'm wrong, but was not topic of this discussion discontinued stories?

So please - could we continue on topic?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  Wheezer
Ernest Bywater

@BlinkReader

And please, excuse me if I'm wrong, but was not topic of this discussion discontinued stories?


Thread drift happens in any thread with more than 2 posts, at 20 posts you're lucky to find the original topic being discussed, but it do come up with some interesting things worth reading most of the time.

Replies:   sejintenej
Dominions Son

@ustourist

and there must be worse examples


Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer.

Wheezer

@BlinkReader

So please - could we continue on topic?


It's a pretty natural progression from discontinued stories to the legal and ethical ramifications of another author either finishing an incomplete work, or spinning off a new story/sequel using the same characters & story universe.

sejintenej

@Ernest Bywater

Thread drift happens in any thread with more than 2 posts, at 20 posts you're lucky to find the original topic being discussed, ...

Back in the dark ages one newsgroup, demon local, had a policy that a thread was actually required to go off subject in the second or third reply. Woe betide anyone who went back to the subject; that was how Americans got the title Merkins (look up its other meaning)

Grant

@Ernest Bywater

How about the movie Dune where a normal looking man who wears grey contact lenses to hide their blue in blue eyes turns into a 100 foot long and twenty foot high giant worm

It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.

Dominions Son

@Grant

It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.


I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were. The books cover the same time span as the movie.

Replies:   Grant  tppm
Grant
Updated:

@Dominions Son


I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were.


He was talking about Leto IIs transformation to the worm which was over a 3,500 year period.

Yes, the Navigators had different descriptions in each of the books, but they were more human than not. They were much more different in the movie, and not quite as different in the mini series; but still more so than described in the books.

The books cover the same time span as the movie.


The only movie I saw was Dune, which was the first book of the series. The mini series used the first 3 books; Dune, Dune Messiah & Children of Dune.

EDIT- re-reading his statement, it looks like a mix of Leto II & the Navigators transformation.
The navigators were the ones to hide their eye colouring, Leto II was the one to turn in to a worm. In the movie, the Navigator was a small whale type of thing with small arms in a tank of spice gas.

El_Sol

@Ernest Bywater

Why do people keep bringing up the Starship Troopers movie?

That movie has scarred me for life! If I ever see start shooting people, it is because people won't just do me the favor of pretending that movie is just a figment of our collective masochism.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Grant


It did take many years for the metamorphoses to occur.


The only person who changed to a worm was the main character after he partook of the special poison later, but none of the guild navigators became worms, while in the movie it opens up with a guild navigator that's a worm - never happened in the book.

edit to fix format error

Replies:   Grant
Ernest Bywater

@El_Sol

Why do people keep bringing up the Starship Troopers movie?


People bring it up because the book was very good and had a lot to say about society, while the only thing the movie had in relation to the book was the movie title and a few character names, everything else was pure BS introduced by some brain dead scriptwriter and the wanker who produced it. If the film had been made properly and in line with the book it would not have scarred you at all.

Replies:   jason1944
Grant

@Ernest Bywater

The only person who changed to a worm was the main character after he partook of the special poison later,

Yep.

but none of the guild navigators became worms,

Nope.

while in the movie it opens up with a guild navigator that's a worm - never happened in the book.

The only movie I'm aware of was the David Lynch one. And in that the Navigator looked like a small whale with arms (to me at least).

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Grant

And in that the Navigator looked like a small whale with arms (to me at least).


Looked more like a grub or worm to me.

tppm

@Dominions Son

I think he's saying that in the books the navigators looked human no mater how advanced they were. The books cover the same time span as the movie.


But they didn't look human, in fact, after generations (even with the extended lifespans provided by total immersion in Spice) I suspect they no longer were human, but a species unto themselves, evolved physically to live in a liquid environment (their Spice tanks).

However in the books Moud Dib's grandson, who became the God Emperor, became, with the aid of the sand trout engulfing his body, a sandworm.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@tppm

However in the books Moud Dib's grandson, who became the God Emperor, became, with the aid of the sand trout engulfing his body, a sandworm.


That was a few books later than what's covered in Dune and also due to more than just the use of the normal spice.

In the book Dune and the first sequel the Guild Navigators are very carefully described, and their appearance is totally human, the only oddity being the blue in blue eyes the same as the Fremen. The Guild Members in the books were not some weird misshapen beast, the way Lynch portrayed them.

odave44
Updated:

@Wheezer

I also traded a few emails with Refusenik at the end of Island Mine. I will admit to telling him how disappointed I was in the sudden and negative ending to the story and all of the characters. He indicated he had a lot of negative feedback and seemed disinclined to write any more at the time because of it. I feel a bit guilty, because I agree his writing was excellent and would very much like to read more.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@odave44

I will admit to telling him how disappointed I was in the sudden and negative ending to the story and all of the characters. He indicated he had a lot of negative feedback and seemed disinclined to write any more at the time because of it.

I read for entertainment, for enjoyment. If a story leaves me feeling down, no matter how well written, then the appeal is way down & I will score it as such.

Invid Fan's Waifs came with a warning that it wasn't all joy and light, so I didn't read it. Can't understand why people that have had a warning still read a story, then mark it down because they didn't like it even though they were warned of what to expect...
His Bells & Nowy Warsaw series all ended on the up, and were well written and interesting universes; so I scored them accordingly.

I read for fun & relaxation, if I want to be miserable i'll check out the news.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
BlinkReader

For me - another one of "reading for fun and relaxation" was "El Paso Border war" from Joe J.

And when we are speaking about this story, does anybody know what happened to him to left very good story unfinished?

Replies:   madnige  sejintenej
madnige

@BlinkReader

Excellent thread drift back to the beginning!

sejintenej

@BlinkReader

"El Paso Border war" from Joe J.
And when we are speaking about this story, does anybody know what happened to him to left very good story unfinished?

Bit strange; he left Twice Lucky III unfinished in 2006 with the comment "I'm Back". It did appear to be a suitable place to finish that story. He left El Paso Frontier war in October 2009 just after his latest blog. Some of his stories appeared in Finestories in 2010 and 2011 (neither that I have mentioned above is there) and Apache on Webpages includes a dozen on his stories including the unfinished Twice Lucky III. His stories, including the unfinished El Paso Border war also appear on ASSTR

BlinkReader

Strange, indeed :(

When we are speaking about strange(r) - do you know that on this site is no one discontinued story with word "stranger" in name ...

Maybe our authors should use more of this word (stranger) in their names :D

awnlee jawking

@Grant

I think that illustrates a perennial problem with the ratings system.

Readers should be able to discern whether a story will appeal to them from its tags and outline. If they read a story and mark it down because it doesn't push the buttons they want, that may deter other potential readers who, for example, won't read a story scoring less than 7.5 on the assumption it's badly written.

Why didn't the reader realise the story wasn't going to be to their taste? Were the tags or outline inadequate? Or didn't the reader peruse the tags and outline properly?

AJ

Replies:   docholladay  sejintenej
docholladay

@awnlee jawking

Or for that matter sometimes a writer will give a block warning in the story itself of something which might offend or disturb some readers. They usually then put another block or whatever at the end of that segment. A segment which wasn't originally planned can be marked that way to caution readers. But like any form of notice to the readers its only good when the reader uses it.

sejintenej
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Readers should be able to discern whether a story will appeal to them from its tags and outline. If they read a story and mark it down because it doesn't push the buttons they want, that may deter other potential readers who, for example, won't read a story scoring less than 7.5 on the assumption it's badly written


Too often the outline is so brief that it could cover a hundred stories. OK so tags might give a clue but for me it is the writer's style which holds me or pushes me away. I have already expressed a liking for a particular author but his (I assume the author is masculine) latest story does not ring my bell even after a lot of chapters though it will probably be in the high 7s or 8s.
Sorry but I won't be scoring it because I have given up on it.

7.5 or better? no; it's a guideline but I follow authors and generalised types of story but there are at least a dozen categories like zoophilia, cannibalism, cross dressing, ft/alien.... which are listed on the search engine but turn me off totally.

BlinkReader

Score 7.5 or higher?

From my beginning here, I learned that this fluid border lies around score 7.0, and for story with more than 100 votes to have score 7.0 or greater - it's usually readable enough.

But it's not law written in stone - there are some stories with score 6.0 with appeal for me, and there are stories with 8.5 and greater I started to read but abandoned because they had absolutely no appeal for me...

Maybe we should mention here at least one story with lesser score and good feeling for us.

Do you have any?

richardshagrin
Updated:

There are readable interesting stories on SOL with fairly low scores. If the topic interests you you can ignore flaws that others won't. The average score on SOL is adjusted to 6.0. I am sure I read that somewhere on the site. There are a great number of stories with scores under 7.5 that are interesting and good to read. There are stories in the following universes that are well worth reading with scores lots lower than 7.5. Some of them even below 6.0 Damsels in Distress, Naked in School, and Thinking Horndog's Swarm Cycle (which as nothing to do with motorcycles or bicycles.)

stevedallas54

@Capt Zapp

The last I heard, CMSIX was in a nursing home in Atlanta, Texas. Anyone close by that might visit or check on him? I am sure that he would enjoy knowing that we are thinking about him.

sarcastic_cynic

I too agree with El Paso - Border War. Awesome story. I'm know I've read a few other's like that, but couldn't remember, even using the advanced search feature. That' ok though.

smask

I decided to reread "Magic" by Lazlo Zalezac and I saw that "More Magic" have that yellow stripe.

Another good story, "The Quatyl", fell victim to a lightning (not lightening) strike.

Crumbly Writer

On a related but separate topic: when is it too late to post a sequel to an existing story?

The last book in my "Great Death" series wasn't nearly as popular as the two earlier books, and I've put off the proposed fourth book. While I'm prepare to continue with it, I'm unsure of the desire/demand for it after this much time (the first was published in 2011), and originally posted to SOL a year before that).

I'm afraid that a new addition won't attract any new readers, and will only draw a small amount of those who appreciated the last book (#3), rather than the many who enjoyed the first and second books. Thus I'm hesitant to invest much time into the project, whereas entirely new books aren't weighed down by their less-than-successful earlier episodes.

The issue with the one book seems to have been technique, telling the story using an ever changing cast of characters (2 to 4 chapters for each character, before switching to the next). So I'm unsure whether a return to a single character would counter the unpopularity of the one technique (i.e. will new readers remember the original books, or the final book which they may not have preferred)?

Any ideas on when it's appropriate to abandon a series?

Replies:   REP
REP

@Crumbly Writer


Any ideas on when it's appropriate to abandon a series?


My opinion is -- You own the series, and if you think you have something worth adding to the series, add it. Look for reader feedback and see if it indicates continuing the addition.

I was one of those readers who enjoyed the first couple of stories in the series. I don't recall the reason I was turned off by the last story I read. From what I do remember, the meteoroid shower had ended, the infected had died, and the survivors where disposing of the dead to clean up the surrounding area. The dynamics had changed within the small group of survivors; caused by the death of a few key members in their group if I recall correctly.

All-in-all the story seemed to lose direction and drive. That impression may have been caused by the apparent absence of a threat or situation that needed to be addressed.

If the new story doesn't re-stimulate reader interest, then I would probably let it go and move on to another story.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@REP

I was one of those readers who enjoyed the first couple of stories in the series. I don't recall the reason I was turned off by the last story I read. From what I do remember, the meteoroid shower had ended, the infected had died, and the survivors where disposing of the dead to clean up the surrounding area. The dynamics had changed within the small group of survivors; caused by the death of a few key members in their group if I recall correctly.

Actually, the last book switched from the main character, David, and instead followed his followers as they traveled the country trying to spread his cure. This issue with the story was the lack of a single focus, as much as I could determine. Just as the readers started liking the characters and new story, I'd switch to an entirely new locale, new people and different problems.

I knew going in that it would be difficult maintaining interest, but hoped I was up to the challenge. I really enjoyed the story, myself, but can understand why others had trouble with it. The problem was more with the execution than the idea.

The new book again leaves the lead character, David, behind, but it focuses on a central character, Natalie, as she travels to Europe to take his cure to the rest of the world. She still communicates, when she can, with David, but the attention is squarely on Natalie as she faces language and cultural difficulties as she tries to convince people to undergo the treatment and rejoin society.

However, it's still a question of whether I can pull it off, given the weak start the previous book left me with. Natalie isn't a real compelling character, as the most unsure of David's followers. Also, with the constantly changing locations and people, it'll likely be hard to follow as well. Thus it remains nearly as difficult proposition as the previous book. Thus the question, if the series has lost steam, is it worth continuing with partial fixes in perspective?

Replies:   REP
REP
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


worth


That is the bottom line, isn't it?

The story has Value to You and it is in trouble. Salvaging the story will have a Cost to You in terms of time and effort. Is the Value worth the Cost? ? ? Only you can decide that.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@REP

That is the bottom line, isn't it?

The story has Value to You and it is in trouble. Salvaging the story will have a Cost to You in terms of time and effort. Is the Value worth the Cost? ? ? Only you can decide that.

Damn, I wanted to respond earlier, but spent days searching for this discussion thread.

I thought over the response (about the lack of threat in the story), and that was a conscious choice. After killing off everyone in the first book, and then having those rescued try to assassinate the main character, David, in the second, I decided to present a series of victories to counter the depressing presentation at the start of the story, hoping the internal conflict of trying to help people despite themselves would drive the story.

However, looking at it from the perspective of time, I now see that was a bad assumption. In many of my stories--especially my more popular stories--there's a distinct threat to the main character's life which defines the story. That was missing in the 3rd book. As much as I hate that every book has to deal with life and death issues, it's clearly a major selling point.

I'll take that into consideration in the sequel, though I'll have to determine how to introduce it into the overall story. I'd rather not duplicate plot elements from a previous book (the rescued trying to kill the rescuer in order to prevent their changing everyone's outcome), but it may be necessary.

By the way, I'm not sure I'd qualify it as a "cost to me" as an author. The story is still popular, but it's not my most popular book, especially on certain sites. Now that I can identify what the essential issue is, I can put it into perspective, but I still suspect the dissatisfaction was more due to a mismatch between the site's readers and the book, rather than a failure of the book itself.

Given the overwhelming negativity of the other books, I felt the readers deserved a more positive message of hope for the future, rather than holding it over their heads as a distant potential. It sounds like the next book will require a mix of the two: hope and success vs. direct threats.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Crumbly Writer

there's a distinct threat to the main character's life which defines the story. That was missing in the 3rd book


I saw traveling between locations with no support a definite threat. I dropped out during that part of the story so I really can't comment on how you handled the potential threats of that type of environment.

rebink

would love to see The Senator update either of his stories. Nothing in years.

kaiser_abaddon

Robberhands' Family Business.

red61544

"A Charmed Life" by The Outsider. It's in Finestories. I wish it were completed and that he had written ten more. http://finestories.com/s/10527/a-charmed-life

Replies:   LonelyDad  Trent C
Judasunchained
Updated:

For me I really want the third Lucky Tickets story by JiMC (http://storiesonline.net/a/JiMC). The two stories there are complete but it was meant to be a trilogy and I really want to know how it ends.

And while I'm wishing, I'd really like the Growing Up A Master squeal by MWTB (http://storiesonline.net/a/MWTB), though this has less claim to be discontinued since Growing Up A Master ended in a good place.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
blacksash

John d series http://storiesonline.net/s/71313/new-pleasures I really enjoyed this one and the sequel http://storiesonline.net/s/72633/new-secrets

LonelyDad

@red61544

Per his blog, 'A Charmed Life' is still active. He has slowed down on his posting, but plans to continue, with the next chapter due this week.

I agree, it is a good story.

Replies:   graybyrd
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

I forget which series it was in, but one author who didn't used to have a problem with fanfic changed his mind when a book he was in the middle of writing had to be dumped because a fanfic piece using the same basic concept (one part foreshadowed in an earlier book) came out and the original author had legal concerns about law suites for stealing the fanfic idea. he'd had the idea a long time but hadn't proof of how long he had it, the fan got fed up of waiting for the foreshadowed aspect to appear in the main series so he wrote a fanfic on it thinking the author had no intention of doing so.

Fanfic can move off into areas the author doesn't want to go at all, and that then leads to issues about what is part of the series and what isn't. Which is an issue an author does not like having to deal with.


I think those 2 are the "big ones" for authors not wanting to openly allow fanfic to be made widely available.

I'm sure J.K. Rowling would love to expunge much of the H.P. centric porn/erotica from the internet with extreme prejudice. But she evidently gave that permission (to write fan fiction, not porn) and it's a little late now. But with that shining example, a lot of authors who might have otherwise been inclined to allow the same probably lost interest.

The other one, as mentioned, is the "complete work" that doesn't turn out to be complete, and the fan fiction writer who gets to it first.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Not_a_ID

I believe the only way to do something like this is to only use their characters in a support role, not as the major characters in a story.

Its like using any public figure whether current or historical. They are great for supporting a story, but lousy when they become the stars.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@docholladay


Its like using any public figure whether current or historical. They are great for supporting a story, but lousy when they become the stars.


I think that depends largely on the historical figure in question. And whether or not they have a viable estate still in operation that can sue you. Hollywood has already demonstrated this numerous times.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Not_a_ID

I think that depends largely on the historical figure in question. And whether or not they have a viable estate still in operation that can sue you. Hollywood has already demonstrated this numerous times.


Heck the usage of "Sue you" has become a major habit, not just in Hollywood. When someone can sue and win because they spill a cup of coffee on themselves, saying: "I didn't know how hot it was". Its gotten to the point of being a terrorist attack only in the courts.

Replies:   Uwe1860
Uwe1860

@docholladay

Heck the usage of "Sue you" has become a major habit, not just in Hollywood. When someone can sue and win because they spill a cup of coffee on themselves, saying: "I didn't know how hot it was". Its gotten to the point of being a terrorist attack only in the courts.

Perhaps you should find out the facts of a case before forming such a strident opinion. It will help you look a lot less ignorant.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

Replies:   REP
REP

@Uwe1860

Perhaps you should find out the facts of a case before forming such a strident opinion. It will help you look a lot less ignorant.


Before assuming that you know Docholladay's thoughts, perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself. There have been hundreds of lawsuits over hot beverages and the courts have found numerous cases that they considered fraudulent.

The MacDonald's case may be one of the better known cases, but Docholladay's remark was general in nature not specific.

Replies:   Uwe1860  sejintenej
Uwe1860

@REP

So, if the courts found them "fraudulent," they didn't "sue and win," then, did they?

The McDonald's case is the one more often cited in discussions like this because it was the most (inadequately) publicized. And anyone who engages in the sort of inane hyperbole that describes a lawsuit, ANY lawsuit, as terrorism cannot be assumed to be reasonable.

Replies:   REP
sejintenej

@REP

Before assuming that you know Docholladay's thoughts, perhaps you should do a bit of research yourself. There have been hundreds of lawsuits over hot beverages and the courts have found numerous cases that they considered fraudulent.

The reference was to the MacDonald's spilled hot coffee case. I did read it at the time and I also saw the start if the thread. Prima facie the case itself was not fraudulent - the (I nearly wrote stupid cow but withdraw that remark) DID hold the container between her legs and it did spill and the coffee was hot (as any sane person might expect).
The plaintiff (or rather her lawyers) claimed not only costs but also massive damages but the judge at least cut the amount down dramatically.
That said, as mentioned in "The Greenies", the case appears stupid - she (or rather her lawyers) would have sued if the coffee had been cold because it was not hot.

We had a case in the UK adjudged stupid towards the end of the 1800's and in the final appeal Lord Justice Scrutton remarked that "the law is not an ass' when he fined the guilty party one penny (the lowest amount he could fine him) and made the plaintiff pay his own and the accused's legal and other costs for all the various trials. That is what, in my opinion, the MacDonalds judge should have done.

Mention has been made of terrorism; America is notorious for lawyers demanding incredible sums for the slightest slight, imagined or real and in the event thereby terrorising ordinary folk. A person who terrorises is by definition a terrorist.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  REP
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

That said, as mentioned in "The Greenies", the case appears stupid - she (or rather her lawyers) would have sued if the coffee had been cold because it was not hot.

In most cases like this, the damages awarded go to medical and 'emotional distress', which often takes the form of permanent scaring and it's impact on social encounters, physical comfort, the ability to dress normally, etc. I wouldn't consider 3rd degree burns to the the same as 'if the coffee had been cold'.

Likewise, the main reason behind tacking huge fines onto legal judgements is because businesses have proven, time and again, that without those "emotional distress" qualifiers, the businesses would simply ignore the situation and never change their policies (see the multiple recent environmental lawsuits where fines of a couple hundred thousand are paid and then routinely ignored).

REP
Updated:

@Uwe1860


they didn't "sue and win,"


You are right. They sued and lost. That is what Docholladay said, or to put it in other words, there are people out there who file fraudulent lawsuits in the hope of winning a big settlement.

Terrorism is about using fear to subdue an opponent. Hypothetical case - Person A intentionally spills hot coffee on their legs so they can file a lawsuit. What would you call it when a company is afraid they might lose due to public sympathy for Person A if the case goes to court. I would call it submitting to fear, and that is economic terrorism.

Replies:   Uwe1860  sejintenej
REP

@sejintenej

The reference was to the MacDonald's spilled hot coffee case.


Uwe1860 referenced that case not Docholladay. Docholladay made a general remark and Uwe1860 zeroed in on a specific case.

People do really stupid things and if they get hurt, they try to sue someone else for their stupidity. In the MacDonald case, the plaintiff did have a valid position regarding the temperature of the coffee was significantly higher than what is normal for drinkable coffee. If I recall the article, 150 is considered normal but MacDonald's serves theirs at about 180.

Replies:   LonelyDad
Uwe1860

@REP

No, if you go back and read what he wrote, it was "sue and win." In the McDonald's case, the coffee was shown to have been much hotter than could reasonably be expected, and that particular McDonald's had been cited for it before the incident in question.

But hey, don't let the whole truth get in the way of a good rant. Your feelings are much more important than that silly, old logic and reason.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Uwe1860

No, if you go back and read what he wrote, it was "sue and win."


That is a correct statement in that those were the words he typed.

Go back and read all of what he said, and as you do think sarcasm. He was saying that people are willing to file fraudulent claims because they believe they can sue and win.

You are the one who tried to tie his general remarks to a particular case. It is true that that case was valid. However, since that person won, I would be willing to bet that other people have tried copy cat lawsuits.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

I would be willing to bet that other people have tried copy cat lawsuits.


And some of them will have won as some restaurants and/or their parent companies settle rather than risk going to court even if they think the claim is bogus.

Replies:   REP
LonelyDad

@REP

Actually, McDonald's brews their coffee at 190°, which is considered the optimum temperature to brew coffee at. Since the carafe the coffee is going into starts at room temperature, the coffee rapidly cools down to the normal 150°. When I worked there, coffee in the carafe was only considered good for about 20 minutes. After that it has cooled off too much, even with the heater under the carafe. They had stainless vacuum carafes that would be filled immediately after the coffee was brewed, and could be used for up to two hours, since the vacuum insulation kept the coffee warm enough. I don't know if they are still doing it that way or not, since I don't drink coffee, and haven't worked there in the last ten years. For them to serve coffee hotter than 150°, they would have to be taking the coffee straight from the brewer without going to the carafe first. We were told never to do that, both for safety reasons (a good way to get burnt) and that one couldn't guarantee the quality of the coffee, because it could come out too strong or very weak, depending on what part of the brew cycle it was in.

If they were selling coffee at more than 150° then they were violating McDonald's policies, and deserved to be sued. Although, even at the cooler 150°, I for one wouldn't want to hold it between my legs!

Replies:   REP
REP

@Dominions Son

And some of them will have won as some restaurants and/or their parent companies settle rather than risk going to court even if they think the claim is bogus.


Thank you.

I suspect that was the point Docholladay was trying to make in his post. I also suspect that is why he labeled such lawsuits as terrorism.

Replies:   docholladay
REP

@LonelyDad

Thank you for your first hand input about MacDonald's policy, training, and your experience.

The article indicated that the Judge found the woman partially to blame for the incident, but his rationale was not stated in the article I read. My personal observation is, removing the lid from a cup of hot coffee and placing it between your legs so you can add creamer and sugar while a passenger in a moving car is not the smartest thing to do. One could say the results are predictable.

The only info I have on this and other cases is what has been reported by the media, and I don't trust everything I read in the media. They always seem to put their own spin on a story, and of course the people being interviewed are involved and spinning the story to their respective advantage.

docholladay

@REP

I suspect that was the point Docholladay was trying to make in his post. I also suspect that is why he labeled such lawsuits as terrorism.


That was the point. Sure some are probably required for good cause. But now a days it seems every time I listen to a legal commercial its all about lawsuits and some of those to me sound down right stupid. Heck I remember the time I was hit in a cross walk by a city bus. No major damage since I caught a glimpse of it early enough to start moving in the opposite direction. Bus ran the stop sign. If that happened today all kinds of lawyers would have been begging me to sue the bus driver and the local transit authority for who knows how much money. It wasn't needed.

Not_a_ID

Which isn't to mention the slip/fall scams, either undertaken as a solo act or team effort. Where the "store customer" will spill(destroy) a liquid product all over the flooring. And before anyone has a chance to clean it up, in rushes the slip/fall scammer to do their spectacular wipeout(often in front of a camera, oh so conveniently). Presto, instant lawsuit for the store having "an unsafe environment."

The other fun one, as the Russians well know(and why they generate so much wacky dash cam footage) EVERYONE has dash cams due to rampant insurance fraud.

From the classic cut someone off and slam on the brakes so you get rear-ended(the person in back gets to be at fault, unless other witnesses step up, or video proof exists). To the person who will run out in front of a car that just stopped and fake getting hit by it.

Replies:   REP  Dominions Son
REP

@Not_a_ID

Let's not forget about all the medical scams that drive our health insurance rates up. It also causes the medical practitioners to charge us higher rates to cover the increased cost of their liability insurance.

Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

From the classic cut someone off and slam on the brakes so you get rear-ended(the person in back gets to be at fault, unless other witnesses step up, or video proof exists). To the person who will run out in front of a car that just stopped and fake getting hit by it.


That happens often enough, that the insurance industry gave it a name, swoop and squat. Often there are two cars involved, the swoop and squat car and a second to box the victim in and prevent dodging the squat car.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

That happens often enough, that the insurance industry gave it a name, swoop and squat. Often there are two cars involved, the swoop and squat car and a second to box the victim in and prevent dodging the squat car.


It also doesn't hurt that having a second or even third car involved helps them provide more "witnesses" to what happened when it becomes "he said, she said. Your word against mine" in a court case.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

It also doesn't hurt that having a second or even third car involved helps them provide more "witnesses" to what happened when it becomes "he said, she said. Your word against mine" in a court case.


They don't need or want witnesses. The way the scam works is that the squat car will be full and all the people in it will claim difficult to validate soft tissue injuries such as whiplash.

The damage claims are calibrated to be just below the typical cost of taking the case to court, so that your insurance company will settle without going to trial or even looking too hard at the claims made by the scammers.

sejintenej

@REP

What would you call it when a company is afraid they might lose due to public sympathy for Person A if the case goes to court. I would call it submitting to fear, and that is economic terrorism

I was in a café in New York when liquid was seen on the tiled floor. They mopped it up, put a warning pillar on it and then surrounded it with four staff members who had to wait until the floor was totally dried. I was told it was to ensure that nobody slipped; an over-reaction caused by fear

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

I was in a café in New York when liquid was seen on the tiled floor. They mopped it up, put a warning pillar on it and then surrounded it with four staff members who had to wait until the floor was totally dried. I was told it was to ensure that nobody slipped; an over-reaction caused by fear


And the cost of having people do that is passed on to all the customers by higher prices to have the extra staff available.

Trent C
Updated:

@red61544

Red, knowing the author as well as I do, "A Charmed Life" will be finished.

samuelmichaels

@Wheezer

Ditto! I also would like to see ElSol continue the Curandero series. Hey ElSol! Ya listening? ;)

Me three!

samuelmichaels

@kimlsevier

Reprobate Rodent's "The Case of The Duplicate Duke."


It was wondering into the weeds, which may be why the author stopped.

samuelmichaels

@Judasunchained

And while I'm wishing, I'd really like the Growing Up A Master squeal by MWTB (http://storiesonline.net/a/MWTB), though this has less claim to be discontinued since Growing Up A Master ended in a good place.

I'd like a sequel, too, but I am also leery of one. There is a special charm in a coming-of-age story, with discovery of sexuality and independence. Once the main character(s) become adult, you need a new conflict. A lot of authors have failed to keep a series fresh past these initial discoveries.

blacksash
Updated:

My personal list in no specific order, apart from A Master's Ring of course...

ElSol - A Master's Ring

http://storiesonline.net/s/41195/a-masters-ring

A Strange Geek - Universe Town of Haven

http://storiesonline.net/universe/129/town-of-haven

Mindmeld - Foul Ball

http://storiesonline.net/s/11068/foul-ball-sophomore-year-coming-of-age-sex-story

Robberhands - Family Business

http://storiesonline.net/s/73213/family-business

John D - Universe Growing Pains

http://storiesonline.net/universe/699/growing-pains

sweetbiscui2004

@garymrssn

Pookie posted a new chapter a few months back - I love this story too, would love to see it finished.

jason1944

@ustourist

But then again, we have Lee Child's Jack Reacher books, where he is clearly described as 6'5" and 210-250 pounds of solid muscle, being played in the movies by 5'7" Tom Cruise with the author's blessing.

jason1944
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

I always wondered what the huge horde of bugs ate on that desolate planet when they didn't have any human soldiers to snack on.

The best part of the movie was the co-ed shower scene ;-)

Replies:   Oyster  tppm
Oyster

@jason1944

I can't be the only who liked the book and the first movie (for different reasons obviously).

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Oyster

I can't be the only who liked the book and the first movie


The movie wouldn't have got any panning at all if they had used a totally different name for it and not tried to ride the fame of the author or the book. By using the book's title they gave people the expectation it would something like the book, then they deliver something that's totally unrelated to the story in the book. Is it any wonder people get angry about being deceived like that.

Replies:   Oyster
Oyster

@Ernest Bywater

From what I read the movie's makers had a script written and were starting production on a movie that had nothing to do with RAH's book, but someone mentioned that some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare (see Terminator and the lawsuit brought by my favorite curmudgeon Harlan Ellison).
So that is not something that I hold against the movie.
What's more: It was the movie that made me go out and buy the book.
Having read and reread the book several times I'll even say that the book cannot be made into a entertaining (or watchable) movie as too much of it is discourse, debate and internal monologue. One would probably have to cut much of that out or it would get too preachy.

So, while I agree that to RAH's fans the movie is probably a kind of bait and switch to younger audiences it may have brought attention to an accomplished science fiction author. At least that's what it did for me.

Dominions Son

@Oyster

I'll even say that the book cannot be made into a entertaining (or watchable) movie as too much of it is discourse, debate and internal monologue.


The first book/movie for the Lord of the Rings has the same problem. A significant chunk of the first book is a monologue by Gandalf at Rivendel (no sure the spelling is correct) to a council of the Elves and Dwarves trying to convince them to help with sending Frodo to Mount Doom to unmake the ring.

Replies:   1111
Ernest Bywater

@Oyster

some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare


that may be reason to get a legal license, but doesn't mean they have to go with the same name and mention his name. They could've called it anything, and then thrown in a little note 'based on .....' to cover the legal aspects.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


that may be reason to get a legal license, but doesn't mean they have to go with the same name and mention his name.


Maybe whoever runs his estate thought it was close enough to the book that they demanded that they put his name on it and use the book's title. If that's the case, in hindsight it was a mistake.

Really, unless someone can get a hold of a copy of the actual written agreement between Robert A. Heinlein's estate, TriStar Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, and Paul Verhoeven we'll never know for sure

Dominions Son

@Oyster

but someone mentioned that some elements were close to the book and they licensed it to not bogged down in a legal nightmare (see Terminator and the lawsuit brought by my favorite curmudgeon Harlan Ellison).


Wouldn't have been much of a legal nightmare, at best more of an annoyance. The Book was published in 1959 So it's copyright would have been under the 1909 copyright act and would have expired more than a decade before the movie was made.

Oyster

@Ernest Bywater

Maybe they should have used the "based on..." line, and I'm probably a hypocrite since I absolutely hate what Hollywood did to Asimov's "I, Robot", but that won't change my opinion.

@Dominion's Son

The book was published in 1959, copyright law was two terms of 28 years (if renewed after the first 28) so it was still copyrighted material until the start of 2016.
For more reading: https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday or https://web.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/2016/pre-1976

1111

@Dominions Son

I remember the first time I read Lord of the Rings some forty or so years ago in my teens (I'm giving my age away) thinking this is an absolutely awesome book but there's no way anyone can do justice to the book and make it into a movie, with the armies and hordes of ghoulish combatants. That was before blockbuster budgets and CGI. That said, I actually waited till I finished re-reading all three books of the LOTR series before I watched the movies. True, the movies simplified many parts but I think LOTR series (the movies) did not disappoint.
The only other movie I can think of where the movie was better than the book was 'Where Eagles Dare' - now I'm really showing my age.
Chris aka 1111

docholladay
Updated:

@1111

What I really hate is the habit the movie makers have gotten into over the past few years.

They make a movie supposedly based on a particular book. Sure its impossible to really tell it the exact same way in different mediums (that is true regardless of the story). Although it is possible to tell the same story just it has to be adjusted to the medium.

But instead they reissue the book rewritten to match the movie script. Many times that ruins an otherwise fantastic story for me.

Done right one medium will help the income from the other medium I think.

edited to add: In written media a story has to build a picture and sound with words for example. While in a movie type media the picture and sound are built into the media. Of course there are other variables as well but those two are obvious ones.

Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

They make a movie supposedly based on a particular book. Sure its impossible to really tell it the exact same way in different mediums (that is true regardless of the story).


For many stories this is a true statement, however, for many stories it is possible to do the movie exactly as it should be according to the book. This is especially true if they do it as animation or go heavy on the CGI. But, making a movie exactly as the way the author wrote it means the director doesn't get to stomp his artistic shlick on it, which is unacceptable to them. To get an idea of it, just look at how often authors and screenwriters have had major issues with the directors when the author includes the right to maintain artistic control in the contract. Movie management and the producer don't mind such clauses, but the directors kick up shit about it every time.

Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

But instead they reissue the book rewritten to match the movie script. Many times that ruins an otherwise fantastic story for me.

I learned, at a very young age, to avoid any book which features the words: "Based on the movie", which means they ignored the book it was based on a wrote an entirely new book based on the screenplay.

Dominions Son

@1111

True, the movies simplified many parts but I think LOTR series (the movies) did not disappoint.


I agree. The movies were very well handled.

As for the bits left out, The movies are already double the length of a typical feature film. Watching the whole trilogy would be a marathon of nearly 12 hours. Doing justice to the books demanded nothing less. If they had tried to include everything, the whole trilogy would have been over 18 hours.

LonelyDad

@1111

The only other movie I can think of where the movie was better than the book was 'Where Eagles Dare' - now I'm really showing my age.

I respectfully choose to execute my right to disagree. The movie was good. As a standalone story it works well. It did stay pretty well within the confines of the book. I guess my problem is the things that were left out or modified to allow it to fit into the movie framework of the time. I am a total immersion reader, which means I get totally into the story as the author tells it. As Lois Bujold says, a book is a collaboration between the author and the reader. As such, no two readers ever read the same book.

I can't do that with a movie. I have to be content to be pulled along and fed bits of the story at a time, seeing someone else's visualization rather than being allowed to create my own. It's okay if that happens with a story line I have no knowledge of, but it drives me crazy if it's based on a book that I have read and enjoyed, because that other person's visualization of the story doesn't come close to mine.

docholladay

@LonelyDad

As Lois Bujold says, a book is a collaboration between the author and the reader.


I loved the comment one of her characters made. It was in regards to why he never changed the questions to his tests. Answer was fairly simple, but it amazed me to realize how many things that answer really applied to.
Answer was:
"The questions never change, but the answer does."

samuelmichaels

@LonelyDad

I can't do that with a movie. I have to be content to be pulled along and fed bits of the story at a time, seeing someone else's visualization rather than being allowed to create my own. It's okay if that happens with a story line I have no knowledge of, but it drives me crazy if it's based on a book that I have read and enjoyed, because that other person's visualization of the story doesn't come close to mine.

You have to regard these as different media. You don't have the same freedom of imagination watching a movie as reading a book, but people still can infer different motivations to the actor's expressions, or read different things into the background and the music. Thus two people can watch a movie and form different impressions of it. For that matter, you can watch a movie twice, and see different things in it.

tppm

@jason1944

I always wondered what the huge horde of bugs ate on that desolate planet when they didn't have any human soldiers to snack on.


Each other, much as insects, and other animals (us included) do here.

Replies:   LonelyDad
LonelyDad

@tppm

They're kinda like the Sa'arm. They consume all the resources, them move on to another planet. Realize, of course, that they wouldn't be making so many different kinds and quantities of warrior bugs if they weren't fighting humans.

graybyrd

@LonelyDad

...slowed down on his posting...


That seems a bit odd, as the only week Outsider has missed was one, due a vacation, and he made note of it in his blog. He's been faithful in maintaining a regular posting schedule. We're now up to Chapter 50, which was just posted. I consider chapters 48-49 & 50 to be "must read" portion of the story; then pause a moment to say a prayer of support for your local emergency medical crews, and the sometimes unavoidable horrors they will never forget.

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