Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Thanks for the quick answer, that's great. I've been enjoying it immensely and I would have hated it if it had gone down that route!

Really, does anyone remember one woman that visited the Hotel and didn't get imprinted to one of the alphas if they didn't bring their own alpha?

A few non-alphas escaped with their wifes still in tow. On the other hand I think you underestimated the number of snatched females. I think it's more like 10 chapters per new wife.

Most of the time its the women in the relationships that push for another one to join the harem instead of the men

The same in Second Chance.

As to the original message, from the definition given (MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent) that could include relations between the several wives of one man as occurred in both Second Chance and Arlene and Jeff

It's not clear what you are saying. It sounds as if you are saying the one 'Alpha's' wife is having sex with a second Alpha. To my recollection that has never happened in Jeff and Arlene. Although there was one instance of Jeff's wife cheating on him with another man, but there were extenuating circumstances.

Not quite. To be explicit, as per the definition given. We have Male Main Character A (MCA), and female partners B and C. (FPB, FPC)

In the event that FPB engaged in sexual activity with FPC without MCA present, but consent having been given to do so. And Arlene has done that one during one of the observation missions, IIRC. That said such content is very rare in A&J out of hundreds of chapters, I doubt there are even 5 examples of it happening.

I don't generally consider the initial rape/blackmail situation as qualifying, although some would potentially flag for NTR from that alone, even if Jeff did do a number on the guy(and never consented to it)

You would have to be more specific because from my recollection all of Arlene's observation partners have been female.

The initial definition given doesn't distinguish between gender, so the various forms of the ff hotcode would qualify.

The initial definition given doesn't distinguish between gender, so the various forms of the ff hotcode would qualify.

You obviously forgot that in your posts to me, you said:

Not quite. To be explicit, as per the definition given. We have Male Main Character A (MCA), and female partners B and C. (FPB, FPC)

What I referenced:

As to the original message, from the definition given (MC's partners having sex with others with MCs consent) that could include relations between the several wives of one man as occurred in both Second Chance and Arlene and Jeff

I think it may have been one of the pilot's women. Jeff won a bet (or something) and was supposed to have full sex with her but couldn't bring himself to do it.

Nope, it was the pilot and his daughter who became the mate of another alpha...wait, maybe I'm wrong and it was Colonel Mustard with the candlestick in the library.

Professor Plum in the Kitchen with the lead pipe.

Jeff won a bet (or something) and was supposed to have full sex with her but couldn't bring himself to do it.

Yes, this was in one of the recent chapters, and that was how it basically played out. It was offered, the conditions were met for the offer to become valid, but no follow-through. So still not NTR.

In this comment to CW, you are saying cuckolding took place in Jeff and Arlene – that is not true.

If I remember correctly, 'cuckolding' is exactly what happened to Jeff in the first few chapters of the story.

I agree and said so in an earlier comment.

Sorry, I didn't read that far back. So I was a bit confused about the statement.

If I remember correctly, 'cuckolding' is exactly what happened to Jeff in the first few chapters of the story.

Jeff and Bill have both been cuckolded in the course of the story. However, neither one of them "accepted it" once they became aware of what was happening. Further, they did something about it. Which makes that "not NTR" in the larger scope, as it lacks "the defeated male partner who has no choice but to accept."

Bill's case is probably the closest things get to NTR.

In this comment to CW, you are saying cuckolding took place in Jeff and Arlene – that is not true.

In that quoted section, I'm discussing NTR as commonly presented in Japanese Hentai, not anything that happened in Arlene and Jeff(except as a contrast). This is a problem with a serial discussion format like this rather than threaded ones. You're getting confused from comments happening "on a different track" from which the other ones are running.

You should also note that while A&J does get directly mentioned there, it's being used as the example of the reverse being the case when anything close to it comes about. As the Alpha's could do something about it, they didn't just sit down and accept it.

To me that is you directly relating your discussion of NTR with the story and what happened in the story.

...as not being NTR. At least, that's my typical experience when someone says something is unlike something else. But then I guess in this modern age of facebook, I need to remember some people may read it as un-like where someone removed their "like" vote on something.

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea),

You can try to spin it anyway you wish, but you were addressing NTR as cuckolding, and in my interpretation the phrase "and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea)" is you saying there was cuckolding in J&A and the baddies learn why cuckolding was a very bad idea.

Tut, tut. You cut off the part where I differentiated NTR from "cuckolding in general" into being a more specific form of it. ALL NTR is cuckolding, but not all cuckolding is NTR.

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it... And "forced" to allow it to continue by one means or another. (Breaking up/divorce/canceling the wedding isn't an option available--Plot Armor helps with this aspect, only the villain has it rather than the MC)

In the case of Jeff, he was able to do something about it, and never had to accept it.

Bill's case is a bit more borderline, as he had essentially given up, but he had also ended the relationship, which wouldn't be an acceptable outcome for an NTR story. That Bill eventually had his moment of revenge(largely via Jeff) against the wrong-doer also moves it further away from the "NTR check-list."

Edit: And on that note, I think the real question regarding NTR was in regards to if Jeff and his fellow Alphas were "going NTR" on the non-Alpha men. Which they haven't done.

So no luring otherwise "committed women" away from existing (healthy) relationships and mocking the men they abandoned while generally going about emasculating them and making them maintain the pretense of still being in a relationship.

The Alpha's don't care much about appearances, so no need to maintain a pretense(in the form of fraudulent/cuckolding relationships--besides, they don't share). If they do extract someone female from an existing relationship, it was an abusive one, and the abuser gets their comeuppance in a non-sexual way, and it moves on from there.

It's just cuckold in Japanese.

urban dictionary:

netorare
literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.

literally means "cuckold" and shortened as NTR is a hentai genre where in a heroine will be introduced as having a significant other, which may be a husband, a boyfriend, or even a partner in a BST affair. The story will then show the aforementioned heroine being intimate with another man thus provoking jealousy in the audience by proxy.

Took me a bit to connect it to NTR. Arlene and Jeff has characters in it who would likely love nothing more than to carry out some NTR(and some of the baddies have tried).

But the thing here is there are two major flavors(and many other variants) I've encountered.

Either the woman is a bitch and ultimately "comes out" as cuckolding the guy because "he isn't man enough" and well... She's a bitch.

Or the woman is being blackmailed/coerced into cuckolding the male, and it escalates until she's "outed" in front of him and the string puller then proceeds to do one of 3 things: they
1) Denegrate/mock the "unmanly" guy directly and openly.
2) Denegrate BOTH the man and the woman involved directly and openly.
3) Have the woman denegrate/mock the guy being NTR'd. (Willingly or not on her part by then-- "Mindbreaking" is also a common theme that turns up in this particular case)

In most of the examples cited, it's NOT cuckolding, as it's simply teasing to provoke a reaction by the husbands/boyfriends.

It's a particularly nasty form of cuckolding all things considered. The male partner on the receiving end doesn't enjoy it(it isn't a kink for them), at all, and unlike in Arlene and Jeff(where the baddies learn why it was a very bad idea), they're also utterly incapable of doing anything about it... And "forced" to allow it to continue by one means or another. (Breaking up/divorce/canceling the wedding isn't an option available--Plot Armor helps with this aspect, only the villain has it rather than the MC)

And, if I wouldn't put up with it in real life, then WTF would I put up with it as a plot device?

Well, it's a kink genre in Japan. Target demo is probably a mix of dominants(who place themselves in the role of bad guy/girl), and sexual submissive types who get off on the idea of being on the receiving end. (Much like rape fantasies) With a sprinkling of others who may pick it up for other reasons(kinks) that are advertised as being present. (Which is how I've had my encounters with it, as elements I go looking for tend to be common enough in many, but not most, NTR works)

Generally speaking though, I'm sure what the abundance of NTR material in Japanese hentai says about both sadistic and masochistic tendencies in their population at large(going beyond the dom/sub aspects), unless it is some kind of weird train wreck thing going on.

Generally speaking though, I'm sure what the abundance of NTR material in Japanese hentai says about both sadistic and masochistic tendencies in their population at large(going beyond the dom/sub aspects), unless it is some kind of weird train wreck thing going on.

The sheer amount of Japanese porn on the net is astounding, already. If you look further into it (For purely scientific reasons, of course), then you quickly will realize that the Japanese are either the most kinky society on earth, or the most tolerant and opened minded...it might be both.

The sheer amount of Japanese porn on the net is astounding, already. If you look further into it (For purely scientific reasons, of course), then you quickly will realize that the Japanese are either the most kinky society on earth, or the most tolerant and opened minded...it might be both.

The Dutch might have them beat when it comes to "live action" though.

I think generally Japan/"the far east" in general has a number of things going on. The BIG one is it doesn't have the direct cultural imprinting of the Judeo-Christian faith stretching back centuries into the past, at least as a population as whole. (Enclaves may be another matter)

Japan and S. Korea have a weird double whammy in that they went from "traditional society" to being brought forcibly into a western mold at the close of WW2. Of which Japan received the brunt of it under McArthur where a lot of "Christian ideas" were imposed upon them externally. (The most notable casualty for the "alternative lifestyle crowd" on that front was the change that happened regarding hot springs and mixed bathing. Mixed gender, nude bathing was commonplace, right up until the end of WW2 and the occupation of Japan by US Troops--with US (christian) cultural mores and expectations.

Watching Anime/Hentai, or their print counterparts, you'd be led to believe gender segregated hot springs/bathing was the "time honored tradition" that went back centuries, rather than the decades it actually does.

BUT concurrent with all that, the 1950's also saw the rise of Playboy Magazine, and the numerous other porn rags that followed it. The "sexual revolution" of the 1960's and 70's had to be all kinds of confusing from the Japanese perspective as they tried to further "westernize" their society. In that context, it's no small wonder that Japanese society seems to be all kinds of screwy, even by American standards, when it comes to sex and sexuality.

Making things even more loopy on the Japanese side, which makes NTR kind of make sense, is their comparatively recent departure from being a feudal society. In particular one with a long and rich history they have every right to be proud of. (As well as now having the ability to be fully aware of the seedier bits as well with comparative ease.)

It is that feudal link which makes NTR seem a bit less extreme in their context. Dom/Sub is simply their transposing the Lord/Liege relationship, and its off to the races from there.

Throw in modern feminism, something else that they likely "imported" from 1950's/60's America, and you have the classic setup for "disempowered male" who "is worthless" and "completely at the mercy of others"(even women) which basically sums up NTR from the male perspective.

So basically, it's a bunch of sexually frustrated Japanese men QQ'ing over the "decline of the patriarchy" back when "men could be men" and why the focus is on "you're not man enough to _____."

That was a truly impressive declaration.

and they have the silliest censoring law

Seconded!