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Abandoned stories

cave jug
Updated:

Hello authors,

Abandoned stories are my pet hate! Especially, where the scoring went through the roof, only to be left languishing unfinished and a reader left wanting. There, I've said it!

There are numerous reasons why a story would become abandoned by it's author, kicking a proverbial bucket would be one reason, I can live with. (no pun untented)

My annoyance is directed to living breathing individuals who, for the lack of better definitions, are holding their fans and followers, hostage.

If this attempt of mine gets any attention from the vast number of contributors on SOL, I will provide a proof of the statement I have just made.

"corrected misspelled word. wast to vast

Replies:   Arquillius  Capt. Zapp  Grant
Arquillius

@cave jug

Hello there Cave.

First, you must realize that some of us, including myself, do not like Holding back our stories. I personally release in certain increments, at the moment my increment is when the story is now done, the story is entirely released.

This allows me to correct spelling and grammar as well as hammer out plot holes and ideas with my writing friends.

I have received some concern with my writing that it was not only not written well enough, but that I was doing it for the wrong reasons.

I write because I like to write, but my real life takes precedence.

Replies:   cave jug
Capt. Zapp

@cave jug

I have to agree. The worst to me are those who have multiple 'i&i' stories and yet find time to post new stories (which will probably join the others on the i&i list)

Replies:   sejintenej
richardshagrin
Updated:

Two responses:

Are "wast" number of contributors "vast"?

Last time I heard about i&i it was intoxication and intercourse, or maybe the other way around. It was what R&R (recreation and recovery? was called when being accurate), it is Vietnam era army speak. Probably the definition I know doesn't fit your context very well. Maybe not the intoxication part, but there are lots of intercourse stories on SOL.

Replies:   cave jug
Grant

@cave jug

My annoyance is directed to living breathing individuals who, for the lack of better definitions, are holding their fans and followers, hostage.

?

If unfinished stories are something that causes you pain & suffering & inconsolable grief, then I'd suggest only reading those that are complete. Any new stories posted, wait until they are finished.

As the authors aren't being paid for what they do, there is no reason for them to finish what they start other than because they want to. If for whatever reason they lose interest, or as in many cases inspiration, or just end up blocked then it's best they just leave the story as it is.

People can chose to read what is there if they find it interesting, or they can decide not to.
It's not an issue IMHO.

Replies:   cave jug
richardshagrin

Complaining isn't useless. Sometimes it motivates authors to write more on specific incomplete stories. And it makes frustrated readers feel better. Squeaky wheels get the grease. So if you want grease, squeak. Even if you are not a big wheel.

Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Yes, but a general complaint like this one aimed at unspecified authors probably is useless.

A specific complaint about a specific story aimed at a specific author might not be useless.

However, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. A polite request for more might be more effective. Begging and pleading probably wouldn't hurt.

cave jug

@richardshagrin

Yes Sir,
made an embarrassing mistake, I can not teach my spell checker to do Grammar as well.

I'll be more specific with my initial complaint and leave it to you guys to check it's accuracy.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

Squeaky wheels get the grease. So if you want grease, squeak. Even if you are not a big wheel.


Works until you get authors who state they'll delay working on something another month for each request they get to finish it.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

@cave jug

I can not teach my spell checker to do Grammar as well.


I've got a good spell checker, her book of spells includes dozens of spells and curses to deal with them old ladies in many ways.

cave jug
Updated:

@Grant

Thanks Grant for your input. To be clear, after this particular case, I do read stories in the archive. What that amounts to is obvious.

Every single one of you (authors) would like an input from us, readers, in the form of input, email, rating, higher the downloads equate to higher popularity and so on. It is obvious, in most cases, I am getting free entertainment no question.

Whether one write for oneself or for readership, in my view should not matter. In my opinion, you have written a story, I started reading it the symbiosis between us has been established and should be nurtured.

Am I to demanding to ask for the epilogue? I should think not. I'd like to assure all of you that I am not saying this as an arrogant ass, but as an avid reader of vast numbers of your work. For better or worse, my taste is wide, rarely any of you miss out an my attention.

I should be specific now and see if I can support my complaint.

It is appropriate not to name this writer only to give him a chance to maybe respond to any the following.

First, the quality of his writing is, in my view, very, very good. It is better then good. The first series I've read was "Jazz club" that put me on the path to "Sumer camp" trilogy, Susan, Gina, Kendall and he decided to start Kristy, whole 22 chapters of it.

Chapter 21 was posted on May 8th, 2013, chapter 22 was posted on March 20, 2014, chapter 23 on April 30, 2015. That is a pattern.

I have tried to bring this up, but the only response is on his web site as follows:

..I used to post on a regular schedule, but that led to two problems: 1) I got burned out, and 2) a small but thoroughly obnoxious group of readers developed a sense of entitlement. So I post whenever I can now.

Please don't ask when I'll post the next chapter. I won't tell you. If you want to know the instant I do, sign up for my mailing list. It's free, spam-free, and completely confidential (I won't sell, rent, trade, share, or give away your e-mail address).

Last but not least, do not bitch about my posting schedule. Don't remind me of the date, or how long it's been since I posted the last chapter. Don't tell me how long it'll take to finish the story at the current rate. Don't say you want to read the end before you die. Don't complain that you have to re-read the previous chapter to catch up again. Don't drop hints that it sure would be nice to read the next chapter, wink, wink. In short, don't be an obnoxious reader with a sense of entitlement.

Why? Because I have no tolerance for people who feel entitled to something I do for free. Worse, I have a hair-trigger when it comes to passive-aggressive behavior (everything in the previous paragraph is classic P-A bullshit). If you piss me off, you're likely to receive a flaming reply and a permanent position in my kill-filter. I don't suffer fools lightly-or quietly-even if you're "just kidding." No, I take that back… especially if you're "just kidding."

Remember, I write for free, and I don't owe you a thing. So please, keep your snarky comments and bad attitude to yourself. Just remove my site from your bookmarks-I won't even notice, I promise-and go read something else.

For everyone else (the other 99.9%), thanks for being patient, and thanks for reading. I definitely appreciate both.


According to one of my favorite story tellers, I am in 0.1%, I do not matter,so I should go on and an suck a lemon, or jump in the lake, maybe find a cryogenic chamber and come out next century to read the end.

I'll finish my rant by saying this. He is active on his site with daily posting, (soft porn pictures, with comments from a vast number of followers) He has written two stories in the last year or so and sells them elsewhere, this site is not good enough for him to offer to subscribed readers. I've bought both of them, remember, I like his work.

With this, I'll leave to you to comment if you please. Do not spare me, a happened to be thick-skinned.

Cheers

Replies:   El_Sol  Crumbly Writer
richardshagrin

I am on his banned list, too. There is a reason the devil is called Old Nick.

cave jug
Updated:

@Arquillius

Thank you Arq,

everything you said is valid, it is not just my lack of patience to get to the end of the tale, but being left hanging, annoyed to have started reading a promising and very engaging story that will not be finished.

Think of any classic novel, book, painting or any peace of art being on display, unfinished, abandoned, slipping into obscurity.

I may be to demanding, half finished things somehow do not do much good, I feel.

Replies:   Chase Shivers
Chase Shivers

@cave jug

I feel that's a pretty harsh way to look at things, honestly. This is not a piece of art in gallery, not a book available at Amazon. You are seeing the artist putting the book together or chipping away at the sculpture one bit at a time. Lots of pieces of art, many potential books, never get into galleries or stores because they are unfinished.

You only know that these unfinished stories are out there because the author, for free, wanted to share it before it was completed, and you got to be part of the creative process. You get a sneak peak at a potential gem if it ever is to be polished.

But you have to accept that you are risking not seeing it finished. That's the way it goes. Authors who are doing this for free owe you nothing, sorry, no matter how entitled you feel to get more. (BTW, I only discovered the author you complain about in the previous post after a reader of my stories on ASSTR, who had read a comment from another reader of mine complaining that I was taking too long on chapters, sent me a link to Nick's page and mentioned some of his response to this issue.)

Nick's response, to me, is fucking fair as hell in spirit, even if a bit nasty in the way he states it.

To think an author, putting in hours and hours of time, for free, owes you anything, is entitlement, and unfair to the author. I've been on that side of things, and it is infuriating.

There are a million reasons why an author doesn't continue a story or does so sporadically. Real Fucking Life gets in the way a lot. Giving you free erotica is often pretty low on the list no matter how much the author might wish to put up a new chapter, sorry.

I get why you are upset, that you want more of what you like, that it comes from an appreciation for the author's work, but please, stop feeling like an author owes you something. They simply don't.

Replies:   cave jug
El_Sol

@cave jug

The writer and the reader are not in a symbiotic relationship.

In the world where the writer is not paid, he is a weekend surfer. The reader is the weekend surfer watcher. Sometimes the watcher cheers and sometimes the surfer likes it or loves it. Sometimes the surfer needs it. Many times though, it is the water, the waves, the board, the motion, and the morning that are the reward for the surfer.

If the surfer decides to cut his morning short, it is his choice -- the watcher doesn't get a vote, a say, or anything about how the surfer chooses to prioritize his weekend. If the surfer decides not to surf on a weekend, a summer, or for the rest of his life, the watcher does not get a vote, a say, or anything.

In this situation, the reader's pleasure is FREE to them, because the writer is paying for them.

Yes -- the writer is paying for the food, the booze, and the hookers.

There is NO relationship between the reader and the writer; the relationships are between the writer and their story AND the reader and the story. The story is not a bridge either -- because the story that I write isn't even the one in my head, never mind being the one the reader picks up from the page.

Replies:   cave jug
cave jug
Updated:

@Chase Shivers

Thanks for the point of view.

Meant no disrespect nor I wanted to anger you. As I mentioned, very thick-skinned. For some reason, mistakenly, I thought there was a gentler way to communicate with ones readership. There is pride in ones work, and there is arrogance.

Cheers

Replies:   Grant  Chase Shivers
Grant

@cave jug

There is pride in ones work, and there is arrogance.

And then there are those that are probably at the end of their rope dealing with rude/insulting/abusive/demanding etc emails about why they haven't finished their free story yet & why don't they just get on with it?

Replies:   cave jug
cave jug
Updated:

@El_Sol

Thank you El_Sol,

much of what you say I agree with. However, since you used surfing as a vehicle to explain it to me I'll continue with your analogue.

A person on the surfing board I see as an event, so it finishes at the end of that day or at any time surfer chooses. And I as watcher have no saying in it, just as I have no saying when, if ever, you are going to gift me with the next chapter. If what you've said is true, let us then ask the moderator to remove the download counter, ratings, and any other reference to what an author has posted and see how good that would go down!

I story, on the other hand I do not see as a short event, but a string of events that lead to a conclusion, (hence my original post) giving me , free, your point of view, a message, your wisdom, and scores of other bits of information.

It is a bit unfair to dismiss me as an irrelevant in the matter of your creative world. A written word, put out in public domain is to be read by us lesser beings, ungrateful for the riches we are showered with. It has been said that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but I could not help myself.

The word I've used as a connection between the writer and the reader may not be symbiosis, but to say a 'bond' does not exist and it is not relevant, is I'm afraid, disingenuous.

Cheers

cave jug
Updated:

@Grant

Well Grant,

I take it you are upset, but mate, you put your work out and you elected to be for no pay. Many of your colleagues have set up a PayPal accounts and are getting paid for their work. Why don't you do it, and if your work is good, we'll flock to you and pay for it! Would that help to get you of your high horse?

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@cave jug

I take it you are upset

You take it wrong.
Just pointing out that there are other reasons why authors respond the way they do than the ones you suggested.

Chase Shivers
Updated:

@cave jug

Just to give you an idea of why this subject is an issue to some of us, here are a few (of MANY) examples of the sort of bullshit I've gotten when I've had to be away and have not been putting up new chapters fast enough for some readers:


Please hurry and finish the next chapters!!


Not so bad if a one-off, but when you get this same basic email from the same reader a dozen times over a couple of weeks... not cool. Make that a dozen readers and a few dozen emails, and it gets really depressing, especially when writing erotica is not on my list of priorities at that point.


It's been a while since the last chapter... [terrible suggestion for an ending] If you have a better ending, bring it on!!


I've gotten several like this, readers who 'just want it finished' who seem to think I will simply end the story because they want it to end.

Worse:


It seems you've lost interest in this story... sorry for us readers... There is nothing more disgusting than an unfinished story. Shame on you; you started a great story - but leaving it unfinished is a sign of weak authorship... If you run out of ideas, please write at least SOME KIND of ending. I think your readers already submitted some ideas for aan ending...


This is exactly the sort of bullshit comment that is infuriating. How dare this person suggest that a lack of recent chapters (it had been all of 6 weeks and I was dealing with a death in the family) meant I had abandoned the story. How dare this person try to shame me for not giving him free stories fast enough? This is the sort of comment that makes me want to give a Nickesque response.


I don't want to seem ungrateful for new episodes, but it seems to me that the timing gaps between new chapters has now become so much that the only thing that you have left to hold the story together is the sex.

I used to enjoy the extended wait between chapters when actual story progression happened, but I kind of felt slimy after I finished reading Chapter 114.

I know that there were hints of things to come, but come on, if you aren't going to give us something to grab hold of and look forward to in the next chapter, maybe it is time to put this story to bed.


Again, a reader who seems to think that I owe him something on schedule. Worse, when I publish a bridge chapter, which offers reflections on past events, a sex scene or two, and foreshadowing of future events, and which happens often in a story now at over 120 chapters and almost 450k words, that the sex scenes are somehow "the only thing that you have left to hold the story together." Fucking ARRRG.


Have you forgotten that you have a LOT of readers waiting for more chapters of this amazing story? It's been over TWO months for Flower Petals while it seems "Shipwrecked" and "Groundhog Nights" have all your attentions.


This is another one that really makes it difficult to be nice. I spend hours of my free time, charging nothing, because I enjoy writing erotica. I owe this reader, or anyone else, nothing. I'm glad he wants more of the series he enjoys, but I write what I'm feeling, I write what is flowing. I don't force-write new content, ever. The results of trying are low-quality additions to a story deserving better treatment.

One more on a similar subject:


With the understanding that you're the author (and a terrific one, too) and we're your readers and therefore subject to what you want to write, I'd like to offer a suggestion.

You were away" for a relatively long period. You have acknowledged the two readers's favorites, but since you've returned you've spent much more of your efforts to writing new serials, than moving these two onward.

I can't speak for any other readers, but I wish you'd take care of those two before writing new material.

Up to you, of course.


I offered a full, long response (much kinder than what Nick says, but the sense is the same) to this on my ASSTR home page, so I won't repost it here.

I hope you now have some idea what it is like being on the author side of things when readers believe they can coax, prod, shame, or otherwise influence the author to deliver something to which the reader feels entitled to receive. For me, at least, it doesn't work. I write what I write, not because a reader has tried to shame me, but because that's the story that flowed when I had time.

Edit: fixed a typo

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin
Updated:

@Chase Shivers

One solution, although one readers may not like, is to write much shorter stories, if there is more to say, string the stories together in a universe. You get to write at your pace and most of the stories in the universe don't have a yellow band.

I suppose some readers will continue to criticize but somehow asking for another story doesn't seem to be as bad as asking for a story to be finished.

I have an ulterior motive. It gives me more stories I could review. And if someone beats me to reviewing the first story in a universe I may have an opportunity with stories further down the path. I know stories can stand more than one review, but my reviews are kind of thin and don't stand up to comparison with reviews by some of the other reviewers. I need to work on that. It can be hard to summarize what happens in a story with lots of chapters and things going on. I usually introduce the characters, or at least the hero, and suggest people who want to know what happens read the story. I wimp out, I know. Lots of readers read reviews to find out what happens in the story. I don't satisfy at least with most of my reviews. How would YOU review Dance of a Lifetime? Particularly since lots of other reviews did it before you got there. Not nearly as hard as being an author, or even an editor who works at it, but perhaps we serve a purpose to recommend stories you worked on.

Replies:   Chase Shivers
Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

Works until you get authors who state they'll delay working on something another month for each request they get to finish it.


I would never read a story by an author who did that.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Switch Blayde

Never is a long time. Perhaps you read one before he said that?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Chase Shivers
Updated:

@richardshagrin


One solution, although one readers may not like, is to write much shorter stories,


I appreciate the idea, but again, I'm not changing the way I write and publish to fit with reader expectations. Maybe that is 'arrogance' as cavejug referred to it above, but I don't see it that way. It's my story, my passion, my investment of time and energy and hard work. I love sharing it with others, I really do, and I love to hear that readers want more of my work (who wouldn't want to hear that?). But I won't change my methods just to prevent the butthurt of a few readers who can't grasp that they are getting free entertainment from my efforts as I can deliver it (a small percentage, I think, are such butthurt readers. I don't know if Nick's 99.9% v 0.01% is right, but close enough).

I haven't been on SOL long enough to know much beyond the general idea behind reviews and their importance. I certainly read reviews for any story I am considering reading or bookmarking, so I see the value. I'm not usually looking for spoilers, so when you describe your reviews as "suggest(ing) people who want to know what happens read the story," that resonates with me. I want to know why I should read the story, not what happens in it. I don't know why anyone would want spoilers in the review.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Chase Shivers

Thanks for the kind words. Now I am going to ruin the mood by being a Math Nazi. Normally here we see Grammar Nazis anal about commas. The complement of 99.9 percent is one tenth of one percent, together they make 100 percent. .01 percent is one hundredth of one percent.

99.9 plus .01 is 99.91. Editing or at least proofreading is never done, in the sense of being finished. I make errors, lots of them and most people are nice enough not to say anything. I am not one of those nice people. I hope you can forgive me. I get the idea there are not many people like me, or like the people who bother Old Nick. Both .1 percent and .01 percent are small numbers.

The strange part of not grouping chapters together in various "books" is that it is used in some long serials, but then the same story goes on for well over a hundred chapters. There are other authors who take breaks, and end the story at the end of the book, with notice the next book will follow in weeks or months. Or after they write a different story. One example that comes to mind is Banadin who finished Ninth Grade and promises to start Tenth Grade after he finishes another story he wants to tell. I suspect the demanding emails he gets from fans will be different from the ones Old Nick gets.

Replies:   cave jug
cave jug
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Thanks richardshagreen, for correcting my mathematical stuff up. Such is life. And I truly appreciate all responses made in this thread. I do stand corrected in my "demand" to see the end of the Nick's story.

(For the record, I did not name him, but it is true I have been referring to his book 4 "Kendall"

Further up, Chase Shivers has opened my eyes to some of the treatment he has been receiving from rude and ungrateful readers. That would mean, there is a lot of disrespect from our side of the fence.

I stand corrected. For what is worth, I do apologize for raising this issue which is a sore spot for you gays. Thanks for helping to understand better.

Cheers to all.

edit; Book four is "Christy", not "Kendall", thank you for the correction

Arquillius

@cave jug

Cave,

Being disrespected is one of the things we have to face as writers. We don't usually get a say in it either. Because if we lash out, or post a blog (by the way, I'll be putting all reader feedback in my blogs from this point on) then we get looked at like the bad guys.

if you wanna see it from our point of view, Write a story, I bet you'll get atleast one.

Arq

Replies:   cave jug
madnige
Updated:

@cave jug


I have been referring to his book 4 "Kendall"


Um, Kendall is book three, book four is Christy

...if we're talking about the same guy. I do remember looking at posting dates and thinking the next chapter's due any month now and being right - in 2012 or 13

cave jug

@Arquillius

Thanks Arq,

have no patience nor desire to write, my enjoyment is to take a flight with your imagination through your stories. Each of us are, supposedly, good for something, writing is not my forte.

richardshagrin
Updated:

@cave jug

Thanks for spelling my name in such an innovative way. Most of my life people who want to embarrass me spell it chagrin. Rich Chagrin also works. Shay grin--think of me and grin.

I am not certain if you wanted to call us gays. ("sore spot for you gays.")

I hope to persuade people to use "decimate" as killing 10% as the Romans did. Since its root deci comes from Latin for ten. Instead of its current meaning of a whole lot but not quite everyone.

Then I hope to retrieve gay in its meaning as happy so I won't have to ask for a correction when called gay.

Replies:   cave jug
Chase Shivers

@cave jug

I'm glad you have a better idea about this issue. I do want to be clear: there are many kind and thoughtful readers who contact me and I really appreciate anyone taking the time to do so. The ones who are abusive or otherwise rude are a very small minority.

There are nice ways to reach out to an author and show your interest in new material. A great one I got after I was away for a couple of months:

Hi Chase, I hope you are well! I have really enjoyed reading your story Shipwrecked and hope you will continue to write more of this tale. Thanks for your time and for sharing this with us! While I wait for new chapters, I'll check out your other series. Thanks again!


That was a really nice way for someone to reach out an express an interest in me writing more in the series without trying to shame me or suggest that I owed something. Thankfully, these sorts of messages are more common than the ones in my earlier post.

While I certainly can't speak for all authors, it can be nice to contact an author who has been away, let them know you've enjoyed the story so far and that you'll be certain to keep an eye out for new chapters in the future. I can't say whether Nick would still yell at you, but I appreciate that sentiment (rather than telling me 'shame on you' or 'when are you going to add new chapters?????!!!!')

Replies:   cave jug
cave jug

@richardshagrin

Hey man,
I am very sorry, for stuffing it up, yet again. Obviously, I should have used "guys" as a plural, not gays as I did. Better choice would have been "fellows".

But now, admitting my mistake I am getting deeper and inadvertently insulting, let me be politically correct, "people with alternative life style".

The truth is , English is not my mother tongue, one would think I should not be making mistakes like this after 40 years living among English speaking people. But I do from time to time, quite an embarrassment, believe me!

You quite right, the original meaning of "gay" is a person , happy and excited : cheerful and lively.

Today, it is somewhat different.

Cheers.

cave jug

@Chase Shivers

Hi Chase,
I did sent couple of emails to this gentleman, with no replay. And I am pretty sure I was not rude, demanding or otherwise out of line. The fact that he did not respond is neither here no there. Latter, I've read his message on his web site and got the feeling that he had more then enough unwelcome requests from readers.

But all is well now. On SOL I have found great many just as good writers, wide choice of subjects, and as I mentioned in another thread, I'm using my precious time reading the best I can find.

It has been almost a year since I've read his forth installment, "Christy" just barely remember it, so if I do not last long enough to "see" the end of it, it will not matter, will it?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@cave jug

It's always good to check an author's blog. Many, like me, are usually good at responding to emails, but there are times when the emails are going to bank up and go unanswered for several weeks. When I enter a period where I can expect that, I usually say so in my bog, and so do some others. While some will have a blog entry with what they will and will not reply to.

Crumbly Writer

@cave jug

Cavejug, the problem with the "Summer Camp" series, is that Nick, the author, got caught up in his website, which primarily posts free pictures every day. He's so busy maintaining the site, that he rarely has time to write.

He may eventually finish the series, but I wouldn't hold my breath. He's moved on to other things, and has largely put writing behind him. I'm glad he's found a source of expression which supports him, but like you, CJ, I'm frustrated by authors who insist on publishing partially finished stories, and THEN don't have the decency to complete them. If you can't finish it the way you want, the put an end to the story and wrap it up as best you can!

However, on the other hand, every author has a whole pile of unfinished stories. What you see here are the decent stories which ran into problems, rather than never having seen them at all. It's a product of watching something develop over time, instead of paying a set price for a finished product. You get some gems, but you also get the stories the author had to abandon (for any number of reasons).

Honestly, the biggest problem with authors who post single chapters is that the entire story never gets finished. I prefer writing a complete first draft, then revising a safe number of chapters before posting anything, so that I know how the story ends and can clean up the text and eliminate the many subplots which don't add to the story. You know, if Nick ever finishes "Summer Camp", that he's not about to revise and clean it up again!

Grant and El Sol, I agree with CJ. Anytime an author crafts a story, they engage in an unwritten contract with the reader. The reader may or not support them, either with payments, feedback or verbal encouragement, but there's a trust that develops. The reader trusts the author, and it's up to the author to develop that trust. Thus the author gets castigated whenever they break that trust. If you have someone act out of character, or you break the laws of the universe you place him in, he may complain, but more often than not, you'll simply lose that reader forever.

In these cases (of abandoned stories), the reader STILL believes in and supports the story, but the author himself has given up on the story, so why should the reader be any more patient with the story than the author is? As the saying goes, "Either shit of get off the pot", or in this case, "Either finish the story, or take it down as an unworkable experiment". (Sorry to be so blunt, but I believe the act of writing involves trust, even if they never allow anyone to read it!)

Chase, your "death in the family" example shows the other side of this argument, but again, if authors plan ahead, and have a 'comfortable cushion' of chapters waiting in the chamber, then that becomes less of an issue. I always (try) to maintain a 5 to 7 chapter lead on my stories. I can't always maintain it, but if life intervenes, I can go ahead and post. And each time I write a new chapter, I simply post another one (i.e. I maintain my lead, rather than leaving everyone hanging).

Richard, sorry to beat dead horses, but "decimate" hasn't meant "a lost of 10%" for a LONG time. Now, it simply means a "monumental loss", whether that's 10% or 100%.

Likewise, "gay" meaning homosexual, has been used for several hundred years. It's not a new corruption of the word, but a long time parallel meaning of the word. You can use "gay" to mean happy all you want, but if you do, be sure to provide context, because I can guarantee, most readers will be confused!

Chase Shivers

@Crumbly Writer

Chase, your "death in the family" example shows the other side of this argument, but again, if authors plan ahead, and have a 'comfortable cushion' of chapters waiting in the chamber, then that becomes less of an issue. I always (try) to maintain a 5 to 7 chapter lead on my stories. I can't always maintain it, but if life intervenes, I can go ahead and post. And each time I write a new chapter, I simply post another one (i.e. I maintain my lead, rather than leaving everyone hanging).


Good for you for planning ahead. Not all of us have that luxury, and not all of us write and publish the same way you do. I don't sit on a story for weeks or months before I publish it, and I rarely, if ever, have a 'comfortable cushion.' I don't like the implication that it is somehow my fault for drawing the ire of some readers for not doing things your way. This is the serial-author version of victim-blaming. I don't like what you are implying here at all.

Also, you're assuming an SOL like queue available. I spent most of my first two years writing erotica on ASSTR, so there was never a queue available. If I didn't have time to write, I also didn't have time to muck around with formatting the html and dealing with all the changes to index files, uploading new chapters, updating links/descriptions, etc that come with putting up a new chapter there. Having works in the queue would have done nothing to help.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Chase Shivers

Good for you for planning ahead. Not all of us have that luxury, and not all of us write and publish the same way you do.


Chase, one advantage of waiting for completion before posting hit home to me early in my career, I think it was the second or third story I was writing. What happened was I was near the end and realised I had a major issue with one aspect of the plot and couldn't find a reasonable way around it, until I had an epiphany and went back to chapter 2 of a 30 chapter story (at that point, ended up with a few more chapters) and made a small change to a sub-plot which flowed onto four other small changes in the story, but made it very easy for me to complete the story the way I wanted it to. That's not something you can really do if you're posting each chapter as you complete it, even if you have four or five chapters ahead. Many readers will have the old sub-plot in their mind and think you screwed up when they get to the part critical to the change.

cave jug

@Ernest Bywater

Thank you Ernest for clarifying this, it comes with experience of an author, to plan ahead, has in mind the whole story and breaks it up into act one . two and three with sub-plots flowing through the chapters tying it all together.
On the other hand, making up a story as one goes, it would lead to a dead end, unconvincing and unrealistic end, very often unfinished story.

A casual browse through the site showes great many works of this kind.

cave jug
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer

Well CW, you've made my day!

There is at least one person who has a sympathy for the loss I felt reading a story that will never finish. I am much more discriminative nowadays, I do collect chapters for a story I think I'd like reading, once it's done.

And if story gets abandoned, I'll simply dump it, without reading a word. Just being selfish I suppose.

In all fairness, an author would like an input, as he/she goes, as a motivating factor, possible suggestions in character development and whatnot. I would be very happy to start reading if a first post/chapter an author declares.." story is finished, I'll be posting it at regular intervals and so on..."

I now realize that we, the readers, do not give enough praise to you fellows for a free entertainment, since most of you are giving it without any reward. I would suggest though, there is a growing number of authors who have setup a PayPal account, I have been buying the completed stories from the few of you, once a first chapter appears. Works for me, getting a story in one hit, and works for you, having few dollars from each of your followers. After all, we live in the world of capitalism, are we not?

Wheezer

After reading some of the excuses and justifications (and downright anger) some writers are expressing about why they publish (or don't) like they do, and how they are so offended by how readers respond negatively to their "free entertainment" when new chapters slow to a trickle or stories are abandoned, It occurred to me that I've been trying to be a writer for all the wrong reasons. Instead of trying to create something enjoyable I can share with others, I just need to be a complete jackass and write solely for myself as a form of mental masturbation. Never finished? Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck! :(

I know that if I received a blowjob from a woman the same way & with the same attitude, I'd kick her ass to the curb. If she doesn't want to give a proper blowjob, THEN DON'T FUCKING START!

Replies:   Chase Shivers
Grant

It's attitudes like Wheezers that make authors leave sites like these.

If you can't deal with incomplete or inactive stories, don't read them- only read completed stories & stay away from the Ongoing Serials completely.

Chase Shivers

@Wheezer

Are you really comparing authors who write and publish free erotica to a woman servicing you? Seriously? Someone call Nick...

Chase Shivers
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Yeah, I understand your point EB, and it is good advice for many, I'm sure. But part of what I enjoy about writing erotica the way I do (one-to-two chapters at a time, then publishing after editing) is that it adds a constant challenge. The story is effectively set in stone, so it is up to me to continue it while keeping the plot interesting (with as few holes as possible), working from what is already published. It helps me improve my writing ability by ensuring I consider (and plan for) lots of future events and scenarios when writing the current chapter without overburdening the story with too many dead ends or useless narrative going nowhere. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I 'enjoy' the challenge of that.

Could I have produced a 'better' version of the story had I waited till the end to publish? Perhaps, but perhaps not. Some stories, especially long ones, I might never have progressed so far along if I had tried to wait till the ending was wrapped up. Writing and publishing in short cycles without having all of the story 'known' to me is fun and challenges me to keep the story tight, progressing with decent pace, and peppered with possible hints of things to come. Then, it's up to me to build on that foundation to add another chapter, then another.

I have done it the other way once (Semper Fi), where I wrote the whole story and then sat on it a couple of weeks polishing it. That worked out very well, no doubt! But it was considerably shorter and came from a decided burst of creative energy which I couldn't stop. I was compelled to write it over a week or so. I couldn't not write it at that time. Other stories of mine take some kicking around at times, and don't flow quite so easily or in such a sustained fashion. By publishing sooner rather than later, I avoid the times where I might get hung up on trying to craft the 'perfect' scenario (if there is such a thing).

I think every writer deserves the chance to write and publish as they wish. If it's not fun, if writing fiction for free feels like work, I wouldn't do it. So what is fun to me is the method I use. If that makes people like Wheezer compare me to a throw-away woman giving him a terrible blow job, so be it. I don't really care. I didn't ask someone else to tell me how to enjoy my hobby, and believe me, since blowing Wheezer is not likely to be fun, given the way he seems to think it is a one-sided transaction with him getting all the pleasure, I have zero interest in catering to such readers.

Replies:   Wheezer  Ernest Bywater
Wheezer

@Chase Shivers

I am an author on SOL as well as a reader, so I think I have a right to express an opinion. If you are only writing for your own pleasure, then you are just engaging in mental masturbation. Like the other form of masturbation, it is best practiced alone.

Replies:   Chase Shivers
Ernest Bywater

@Chase Shivers

I think every writer deserves the chance to write and publish as they wish.


I agree with this sentiment.

However, my approach is due to a number of issues, the most practical of them being the one about been able to write myself out of a corner if I need to. A second being to change the direction if I feel a need to once into the story - Odd Man in College is an example of that; when I started writing it I was thinking of doing a Much Sex BDSM style story, but found it worked better without the sex and that allowed me to introduce other sub-plots for a different tension. Another aspect of why I like to finish before I post is I have several unfinished stories half written with some start as far back as 2003. Check the copyright dates on mys stories and compare that with the posting date, in most cases the variance is due to how long it took to write - Flames of Life copyright 2015, posting March 2015; Interesting Times copyright 2011, posting March 2015; many others are similar. And the last reason is due to how angry I felt when I got really wrapped up in a story that was being posted as it was written, only to have it stop when it was almost completed and an e-mail to the author resulted in a reply of I got bored with it and can't be bothered with it any more, it's never going to be finished and later someone else asked permission to finish it, only to be denied permission. Yes, it's the author's right, but if he isn't interested anymore, why not give permission? I made myself a promise not to do that to anyone else while I'm alive. I've made arrangements with my son to post incomplete stories after I die, along with a notice for those wishing to complete them to contact him for the legal permission to do so.

Chase Shivers

@Wheezer

I find your 'opinion' very bizarre, and your analogy is simply terrible, the idea that an author is somehow like a woman giving you a blowjob you don't like.

If she doesn't want to give a proper blowjob, THEN DON'T FUCKING START!


Heh. Whatever.

Also, you've missed out if you think 'the other form of masturbation' is best practiced alone...

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


Chase, one advantage of waiting for completion before posting hit home to me early in my career, I think it was the second or third story I was writing.


Chase, Ernest, I had a similar experience. I spent time on my first story, taking more than a year to bring it to fruition. But as I posted more books in the series, I decided to write one book 'on the fly' (as most here do). I didn't have Ernest's problem with plot holes, but I find I had several chapters and subplots that, if I'd written it out first, I'd have eliminated or streamlined.

My emphasis on writing out the entire story in a first draft, is that it enables you to revise the story with a view of the entire story. Not only can you cut the fat, but you can set up situations and provide foreshadowing, which makes the end result a better story. My point before was that, often, the 'stories written by the chapter' don't have the same foreshadowing and development.

I wasn't meaning to dismiss other writing techniques. We all need to do what we can to write, and we all approach it differently. But for me, I don't like the way my stories turn out when I write them a chapter at a time. I don't change the plot much when I revise, but I tend to add a lot of insights and character 'flavoring' into the characters at that point.

Grant, Wheezer, as I said before, the cost of having writers like me, who only post finished stories, is that you never encounter the beautiful failures, and often, it will take a year or more between stories if a story gets thrown away as 'unworkable'. There are pros and cons to finishing stories. Me, I appreciate the incomplete stories. A decent story is worthwhile, even if it never ends satisfactorily.

Chase, I think your method of posting/publishing a chapter at a time works when you aren't publishing sagas. When you write extremely long stories, they can get away from you. But when you write tightly focused stories, it's easier to craft polished stories on the first go round.

sejintenej

@Capt. Zapp

I have to agree. The worst to me are those who have multiple 'i&i' stories and yet find time to post new stories (which will probably join the others on the i&i list)

That is just one of my moans.
Yes, authors may be prevented from carrying on with a story but there are those who blog that they are curently writing the next chapter(s) and nothing ever appears. One well followed story went through books 1, 2 and I think 3 before I gave up - I think that the start of book 4 appeared over a year later.

Authors; please please tell us in your blog if you are stopping, giving up on or abandoning a story and put us out of our misery. You don't have to give a reason. You can resurrect a story if your mindset changes.I even saw one case where an enterprising writer actually stepped in and continued a story Under his own name (or nom de plume) acknowledging the previous author.

sejintenej
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Richard, sorry to beat dead horses, but "decimate" hasn't meant "a lost of 10%" for a LONG time. Now, it simply means a "monumental loss", whether that's 10% or 100%.

Likewise, "gay" meaning homosexual, has been used for several hundred years. It's not a new corruption of the word, but a long time parallel meaning of the word. You can use "gay" to mean happy all you want, but if you do, be sure to provide context, because I can guarantee, most readers will be confused!

Decimate:
Sorry but I've never seen it as you describe; the Roman army version prevailed thugh to 10% could be somewhat elastic

Gay:
It just might have been used for several hundred years somewhere but the usual meaning was the happiness version. It is only in recent years that the homosexual variety has come to the fore.

How would you describe "faggot"? A ball of meat? a bundle of sticks? or something else?

How about "The whole world's queer save me and thee and even thee's a little queer" Nothing whatsoever with homosexuality but some faggot might want to change the definition

Wheezer

@Crumbly

I don't have an issue, per se, with I&I stories. If they are marked I&I and I haven't read them, I don't start. I also know that sometimes life events interrupt the creative process, or even bring it to an end.

Like my blowjob analogy, it is the bad attitude that pisses me off. Better to not start, imho, than to approach the job with that attitude. It just ends up with everyone pissed off.

Replies:   cave jug
cave jug

@Wheezer

Hi authors,

this discussion is going well and I, for one, am glad we are having it. Each of you writers are readers at one time or the another, so I was hoping to convey at the beginning, my "pet hate" regarding the unfinished story without much difficulties or opposition.

Once I, or yourselves ,start to read a story, it is expected that at some point there is a wrap up, a conclusion and this issue arises when few mounts down the line becomes , as you refer to it, an I&I. Majority of us would not invest time and attention to something with no conclusion.

All other issues brought into discussion are relevant to the creator of such work, not to a reader. Maybe sad but true.

The hard work in the background is of no relevance to an individual who started to read it. We are selfish, and without giving a second thought to the effort, time and energy put into work is clear to me, after such in depth discussion.

So, I'd like to thank you all for taking your time to participate. The saying goes: "One is never to old to learn new things".

Cheers.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@cave jug

CJ, I still contend that the occasional incomplete story is the price to being in the front seat and watching the story creation process. If you don't want to be a part in the creation process, then walk to your nearest bookstore and purchase a completed story.

Instead, you're being invited into the artist/writers' heads, watching as they create their stories a chapter at a time. Occasionally, they'll beach their stories, all the subplots washing ashore or drowning. But in most cases, you watch them make the trip from beginning to end successfully. But that's part of the excitement in making a dangerous journey. You don't necessarily know how it's going to work, or even if it will. That's what makes SOL such a unique place.

You aren't merely investing in a finished product, instead you're watching the stories unfold a piece at a time. Sometimes you see genius, and other times you're witnessing a shipwreck. But in either case, you're in for some interesting times.

So weigh the occasional disaster against all the wonderful journeys these authors take you on. If it wasn't for those occasional disasters, the other successful journeys would never have taken place.

Switch Blayde

@richardshagrin

Never is a long time. Perhaps you read one before he said that?


Actually, I don't read stories that aren't finished so it wouldn't apply to me.

I simply don't react well to blackmail or coercion so, yes, I really did mean never. And I'm not a very forgiving person.

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