It's time to vote for your favourite story and author in this year's clitoridesawards. [ X Dismiss ]
Home « Forum « Story Discussion and Feedback

Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Pencil Erasers

red61544

I just saw an ad on TV for hearing aids. The commentator said the aid was the size of a pencil eraser. Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers, I was wondering if I could get those in my ears instead of the hearing aids. I wouldn't hear much but I imagine I wouldn't care at all.

Replies:   awnlee jawking  REP  sejintenej
awnlee jawking

@red61544

How about organ stops - would they work for you? :)

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

How about organ stops - would they work for you? :)


organ stops as against organ ends, hmmm - interesting question.

red61544

Actually, my point was that people need to come up with some original descriptions, not just for nipples but for every aspect of sex. We read the same descriptions over and over ad nauseam. Nipples are pencil erasers, an anus is a rosebud, a clitoris is a love button, and so forth. Originality is one of the qualities of good writing. We should applaud it when we find it.

StarFleet Carl

@red61544

an anus is a rosebud


I thought Rosebud was a sled ... :)

Replies:   Argon
Argon

@StarFleet Carl

I thought Rosebud was a sled ... :)


Nope, it was an attack command for two Doberman pinchers. See if you catch this reference!

Replies:   Zom
Zom

@Argon

attack command for two Doberman pinchers

Who is stealing the Doberman (Pinschers)? Perhaps Colombo will know.

awnlee jawking

@red61544

I don't think it's as simple as that. When you're writing to a genre, there's a certain expectation that a story will conform to the genre norms. If you're writing a stroke story, originality is probably a poor idea because you might make the reader stop and think!

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@red61544

Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers,


Perhaps those pencil-sized nipples are actually hearing aids. After all, women say we men are always talking to their tits. :)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@REP

My pencil eraser is made from some synthetic substance, is bright orange, rectangular and was about two inches long originally.

I haven't seen any nipples or hearing aids matching that description :)

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

My pencil eraser is made from some synthetic substance, is bright orange, rectangular and was about two inches long originally.


No, that's just an eraser. A pencil eraser is the small cylindrical eraser that comes attached to a pencil.

Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

A pencil eraser is the small cylindrical eraser that comes attached to a pencil.


https://pixabay.com/en/pencil-superglue-pointless-hexastix-1819062/

but it could be real fun if they mean this one

https://teacherpeach.com/products/we-dream-big-jumbo-display-pencil

awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

And there was me thinking it was an eraser designed to erase pencil rather than ink.

Divided by a common language?

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Divided by a common language?


The last time I went to a Garage Sale the guy got angry when I offered fifty bucks for the steel garage he had.

Then there was the time a local mall was having a Monster Sale but refused to show or sell me any decent monsters.

Buying boots at a Boot Sale is almost as hard as buying fleas at a Flea Market.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Lets not talk about a baby sale, or all the Drug Stores that lie. Walgreens doesn't have green walls, Bartells (a local Washington State chain) doesn't tell people about bars, Rite-Aid also helps left handed people. So much false advertising.

awnlee jawking

@richardshagrin

How come Kentucky Fried Chicken is still hot by the time it reaches the UK? :)

AJ

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Walgreens doesn't have green walls


AFIK: Walgreen is the founder's surname.

Replies:   Capt. Zapp
Capt. Zapp

@Dominions Son

Walgreens doesn't have green walls

AFIK: Walgreen is the founder's surname.


(sound of these plays on words going over your head)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Capt. Zapp

sound of these plays on words going over your head


No they didn't. :P

Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking

How come Kentucky Fried Chicken is still hot by the time it reaches the UK? :)


Because the head cook appointed in every KFC store is named Kentucky.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

I don't think it's as simple as that. When you're writing to a genre, there's a certain expectation that a story will conform to the genre norms. If you're writing a stroke story, originality is probably a poor idea because you might make the reader stop and think!

Genre expectations are one thing, but the inability to describe something is more symptomatic of bigger problems than that. A universal rule for all authors is: if you can't say something without stealing overused descriptions, it's better left unsaid. That'll force them to invest a little time into considering how something is said.

There have been some phenomenal erotic authors over the years, so why do we all model ourselves over the worst?

Crumbly Writer

All right, instead of everyone bitching about lack of originality, let's do something about it. Let's dedicate this one thread to providing solutions, descriptions other authors are free to use to describe the erotic basics.

Here's mine:

Her nipples were like busted springs, juggling up and down, drawing my eyes despite whatever she said, begging my fingers to reach out and grasp them. They spoke to me in a way her conversation never could.

Replies:   graybyrd  Wheezer
graybyrd
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer

She walked with a bouncing stride; her breasts jiggled like Slinky-hung molded Jello.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

She walked with a bouncing stride; her breasts jiggled like Slinky-hung molded Jello.

"Slinky-Hung", that's my porn-name. :)

Wheezer

Nipple descriptions are often as unrealistic as dick descriptions, and can be a major turn-off. Inch long nipples? Gross...

Wheezer

@Crumbly Writer

Here's mine:

Her nipples were like busted springs, juggling up and down, drawing my eyes despite whatever she said, begging my fingers to reach out and grasp them. They spoke to me in a way her conversation never could.


Her nipples were like a pair of googley-eyed novelty glasses. Sometimes they looked cross-eyed at each other. Other times they pointed in different directions like Marty Feldman's eyes. Mostly they just bounced around, giving me a headache trying to track them.

Grant

So far the pencil eraser description is still looking like the best. It could be why it's used so often to describe nipples of that size.

Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.

Replies:   graybyrd  StarFleet Carl
graybyrd

@Grant

Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.


No pun intended, right?

Replies:   Grant
Grant
Updated:

@graybyrd

Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.

No pun intended, right?

It's one of those very few points of fact, that are correct no matter how you interpret it.
:-)

PotomacBob

@red61544

What are the best cliches with which to replace the old cliches?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  red61544
Crumbly Writer

@PotomacBob

What are the best cliches with which to replace the old cliches?

How about:

Her erect nipples called me enticingly, like little tongues, motioning me towards them, begging me to devour them even as her eyes continued to say 'what the fuck?'.

StarFleet Carl

@Grant

Without nipples, breasts would be pointless.


Unfortunately, in reality, you're also absolutely correct. Not to be a downer in this conversation, but I can speak from experience on this one.

My wife had to have double radical mastectomies 15 years ago. They were able to reconstruct and give her breasts, but since they basically removed everything, including the nipples and nerves, the only sensation she gets now when I kiss and fondle her breasts is the same as if I were kissing her shoulder - just skin, in other words.

Yeah, it sucks, but it beats the alternative.

red61544

@PotomacBob

What are the best cliches with which to replace the old cliches?

Get rid of the cliches altogether. If you want to write an "original" story, it can't just be a compilation of cliches strung together - that's one step above plagiarism. In fact, that could be a definition of cliche - a description that has been plagiarized by many people for a long time. Originality requires effort and thought. Using cliches is a sign of a lack of imagination and effort.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
sejintenej

@red61544

The commentator said the aid was the size of a pencil eraser. Since a lot of authors on SOL describe nipples as being the size of pencil erasers

OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?

Replies:   red61544  Crumbly Writer
red61544

@sejintenej

OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?

I have no idea what you're talking about. My post was intended to bitch about the same cliches being used over and over. I know this is a site for amateur writers but I would hope that the better writers could avoid using the same terms that hundreds of others authors are using to describe sexual anatomy. All writing, including amateur erotica, should strive to be original. Though it's easier to reuse the same descriptions others have used, it's not good writing.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Crumbly Writer

@red61544

In fact, that could be a definition of cliche - a description that has been plagiarized by many people for a long time. Originality requires effort and thought.

The only time you can legitimately use a cliche, is in dialogue (as it's considered a common dialogue technique). However, even there, you've got to be very careful not to overuse it, otherwise your dialogue will be incredibly boring, just as it is when you speak to someone who keeps saying "Uh ..." every three words.

Replies:   docholladay
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

OK so what about centimetre long pencils or, if his equipment beggars belief, then hers should be inch long pencil stubs?

If you substitute the unit of measure in a cliche, it's no less a cliche. Is "a centimeter is as good as a kilogram" any better than "an inch is as good as a mile"?

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

In my opinion, comparing a unit of length (centimeter) to a unit of mass (kilogram) is original. It may not be sensible, but it is original.

Ernest Bywater

@red61544

My post was intended to bitch about the same cliches being used over and over.


Some cliches, like some stereotypes, are constantly used simply because they are:

1. So well understood and accepted, thus all know what they refer to; or

2. So valid and true to life there is no real easy way to present the same matter in another way; or

3. Just so expected of the genre that doing otherwise would get you into trouble.

An example of option 3 is my story The Contagion applied real life responses and totally stepped outside the Zombie Apocalypse genre rules, thus I got a few emails about how terrible it was because it didn't abide by the rules. A similar aspect has been mentioned in the Naked in School thread.

docholladay

@Crumbly Writer

The only time you can legitimately use a cliche, is in dialogue


Everyone needs to remember that they became cliche's because of the fact they worked. Everyone either understands them or in the case of different languages can have them easily explained. But you are right their proper usage is when spoken/dialog needs to be used. Cliche's are really shortcuts to get a generic meaning across to the listener without having to go into huge details.

For example one day I took almost an hour to describe a fix because the man I was talking to was black. Because of the PC reaction to the N word. Finally I apologized and used that 2 word phrase. We both laughed over my attempt to avoid offending him. I should have used that 2 word expression in the first place which would have saved us both time.
Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.

Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.


Start a trend - down her we call that a jury rig - damned if I know why. But wikipedia has a info I'd not seen before:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_rigging

note the similar phrases section.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Ernest Bywater

Start a trend - down her we call that a jury rig - damned if I know why.

These days most often you'll hear people talking about "Bodgey it up." A rough and ready, quick and dirty fix.

Ernest Bywater

@Grant

"Bodgey it up."


I've heard both, and I've always understood a Bodgy job to mean they don't expect it to last more than a couple of hours and may work only imperfectly, while a Jury rig is expected to be a better quality and a longer lasting job. There's also an inherent implication that when you go to do a proper fix there's likely to be as much extra damage from the bodgy job as from the original, but not so with a jury rig.

An example I've seen. Light hit by two cars in a parking lot, only the tail lights were damage on one side of each car. One person did a bodgy job by using duct-tape to tape over the whole damage area, and you could hardly see the lights working. The other guy did a jury rig job, by going into a nearby store to buy some cling-wrap, and cleaned the side of the car around the damaged light. He set some pieces of the plastic back in place while it's held there by the cling-wrap. Once he had it all back in place he used a lot more cling wrap over a larger area to see it stayed on longer. You could see the light work.

Both kept the rain out of the car, but one did a better job, and was less likely to get pulled over by the cops while waiting for the part.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

I have used both Jury-rigged and Nigger-rigged at times. Funny part is the jury-rigged is usually expected to create more problems and the nigger-rigged is expected to be longer lasting, just not the proper parts on materials required. And its funny how many uses Duct-tape has in every toolbox.

Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

Duct-tape has in every toolbox.


Years ago I saw a photo of a joke gift which had a cheap plastic box with a roll of duct-tape, a claw hammer, a single blade knife, and a single screwdriver in it with the title of Redneck Tool Kit on it. The sad thing is I know people who have tool kits with just those four items in it sitting in their car.

graybyrd
Updated:

@docholladay


Phrase was: "Nigger rigged". Explained real quick how I repaired something when I didn't have the right tools and parts for the repair.


In some sections the phrase "farmer-rigged" would be more pertinent. That aside, there's a multitude of ways to describe that repair without being offensive, which would be the better choice.

As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.

Wheezer

@graybyrd

In some sections the phrase "farmer-rigged" would be more pertinent. That aside, there's a multitude of ways to describe that repair without being offensive, which would be the better choice.


Although not any less offensive, I've heard the term "afro-engineered" used.

docholladay
Updated:

@graybyrd


As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.


Sometimes that works fine. The problems occur when you have to go through a large description in order to replace those small simple phrases. My problem was I didn't want to risk offending the man since I didn't know him well enough. Sure other phrases or expressions could also work, but when it takes that long to explain something when its unneeded. Its a waste of time for everyone involved. Sometimes the best solution is that unwanted cliche. Me and that plumber both laughed over my trying to avoid its usage after finally figuring out what I was trying to say.

edited to add: Cliches got the labels because they work and their common usage and understanding. Not because of them being proper usage.

awnlee jawking

@Grant

Bodgey it up.


In English English, the verb is bodge and the result would be a bodge or a bodge job.

The pejorative use does not reflect the etymological origins - a bodger used to be a necessary and respected contributor in the wooden furniture industry.

AJ

Replies:   ustourist
awnlee jawking

@docholladay

I was brought up to use 'worked like a nigger' to mean that an individual worked hard and with good results. It's sad how the positive connotations of 'nigger' have been thrown out with the negative ones.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
StarFleet Carl

@docholladay

Nigger rigged


Afro Engineering. Probably (hell, most certainly) not PC, but it avoids the dreaded 'N' word.

Replies:   docholladay
ustourist
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Thank You!

As someone who spent a little time as a bodger, it is actually an extremely important profession, but one that mostly operates under the radar and by word of mouth / reputation.

Edit for typo

docholladay

@StarFleet Carl

Afro Engineering. Probably (hell, most certainly) not PC, but it avoids the dreaded 'N' word.


The problem with having to keep our language PC is so many terms that worked to communicate so much, became lost. Everyone since the PC situation became a requirement has been struggling to come up with adequate replacements, most of the time we (I) fail to find and equal replacement.

awnlee jawking

@docholladay

most of the time we (I) fail to find and equal replacement


Isn't that the whole point of Newspeak? ;)

AJ

Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

Everyone since the PC situation became a requirement has been struggling to come up with adequate replacements,


Leaves me wondering what they now call those pieces of coral that have been called Nigger Heads for hundreds of years.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
richardshagrin

Can you still say Niger River or Nigeria?

Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

I have used both Jury-rigged and Nigger-rigged at times. Funny part is the jury-rigged is usually expected to create more problems and the nigger-rigged is expected to be longer lasting, just not the proper parts on materials required.

"Jury rigged" (I'm guessing) references rigged juries, which typically stand, despite any protests, despite the harm they do to those involved. "Nigger rigged" is an (old-timey) credit to how poor blacks would often manage to do better work than the highly paid white (mainly during the 50s and 60 here in the U.S.) for little money. Thus many of the more open-minded of the time would seek out workers in the black community to do various repairs, rather than going with contractors.

It wasn't a pleasant time for those involved, but such actions benefited both sides, while the law consistently looked down on such cooperation.

Replies:   docholladay  ustourist
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

As far as cliches go, it really takes very little skill to avoid them; and only a little effort to say the same thing using words of your own choosing.

That's what most offends me about those stories (which rely on such terrible cliches): the authors just don't care about the quality of their writing enough to even consider a substitution. It's not that they can't come up with alternatives, they just don't give a damn about their own creations. That is the definition of "dodgy construction" if I've ever heard one!

Replies:   REP
Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

I was brought up to use 'worked like a nigger' to mean that an individual worked hard and with good results. It's sad how the positive connotations of 'nigger' have been thrown out with the negative ones.

Of course, that's because those people worked so hard, because they'd be strung up from a tree if they didn't do four times the work at a fraction of the cost!

Some terms are offense for a reason, not because of the honest work of those involved, but because of the dishonest work of those dictating the work.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

Leaves me wondering what they now call those pieces of coral that have been called Nigger Heads for hundreds of years.

My mother, to this very day, refers to Brazilian nuts as "nigger toes" because of the dark skin covering them. She's always been a sweet, even-tempered lady who went out of her way to help everyone, but she's refused to drop the term from her vocabulary, though she blushes whenever she uses the term.

@richardshagrin

Can you still say Niger River or Nigeria?

Yes, because the terms have nothing to do with the infamous N-word, other than using similar letters.

docholladay

@Crumbly Writer

"Nigger rigged" is an (old-timey) credit to how poor blacks would often manage to do better work


Basically it refers I think to the way they had to make whatever was available work. Since many times the required parts or whatever either wasn't available to them or too high a cost. Didn't mean it was lousy work however. More the attitude behind it. Of course many whites among other races also had the same problems.

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist

@docholladay

In my area of Texas it's known as 'Southern Engineering', and is an accepted way of getting round a problem.

Replies:   docholladay
REP

@Crumbly Writer

they just don't give a damn about their own creations.


You are right in some cases; but not all.

If you were to sit down somewhere where a large number of people are talking, you would hear them using clichés. Clichés are a standard means of expressing your thoughts relative to something your listener is familiar with. Granted use of clichés often introduces misunderstanding between the speaker and listener.

As a writer, I try to emulate the manner in which I and other people speak. I do this because I want to write a good story with realistic dialog. I have found that when I think about a topic, I sometimes use clichés. If in a normal conversation, I or another person might use a cliché then I may add it to my characters' dialog.

In a different thread some time back, there was a discussion of whether the MC's/narrator's thoughts were narrative or dialog. Narrative because they weren't spoken or dialog because it was a silent conversation. I currently classify my MC's/narrator's thoughts expressed in the narrative as a conversation with himself to be "Internal Dialog". If a cliché is appropriate for use in dialog, then it would also be appropriate for use in narrative that is written as Internal Dialog.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

Of course, that's because those people worked so hard, because they'd be strung up from a tree if they didn't do four times the work at a fraction of the cost!


If that were the only reason, the expression should have quickly died out following emancipation.

I can also remember the expression 'work like a navvy', based mainly on the workers who constructed the American railroads.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

quote

'work like a navvy',

end quote

Navvy, a shorter form of navigator (UK) or navigational engineer (US), is particularly applied to describe the manual labourers working on major civil engineering projects and occasionally (in North America) to refer to mechanical shovels and earth moving machinery. The term was coined in the late 18th century in Great Britain when numerous canals were being built, which were also sometimes known as "navigations", or "eternal navigations", intended to last forever all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navvy

ustourist

@Crumbly Writer

"Jury rigged" (I'm guessing) references rigged juries, which typically stand, despite any protests, despite the harm they do to those involved

Jury rigging refers to repairs to sailing ships, often necessary after a severe storm, but when proper materials weren't available. It is in fact a compliment to those who did the work.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
docholladay

@ustourist

Like most cliche's its easily understood. I think that is one of the major requirements for anything to become a cliche, but then it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

ustourist

@docholladay

I would tend to agree. If it needs to be explained then people wouldn't use it as explanation would defeat the purpose. That may also be why some clichés don't travel well.

Crumbly Writer

@REP

I currently classify my MC's/narrator's thoughts expressed in the narrative as a conversation with himself to be "Internal Dialog". If a cliché is appropriate for use in dialog, then it would also be appropriate for use in narrative that is written as Internal Dialog.

That's a vital distinction, which I support, but for the majority of authors, narrative in narrative, and all 3rd person omni is, effectively, essentially written by God himself.

However, in that case, you either need to identify who's speaking, or provide enough context to allow the readers to figure it out for themselves (i.e. determine what the narrators POV is).

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

If that were the only reason, the expression should have quickly died out following emancipation.

Sorry, but I never ONCE suggested my example was based on the days of slavery. Personally, I was thinking of the 50s and 60s, when I was around to watch the people involved.

In the times of Jim Crow, few blacks were given the same opportunities, much as happens today. As such, they had to make due in order to survive. It isn't the dead who're remembered, it's those who made a difference in difficult circumstances.

Crumbly Writer

@ustourist

Jury rigging refers to repairs to sailing ships, often necessary after a severe storm, but when proper materials weren't available. It is in fact a compliment to those who did the work.

You're absolutely right. Despite knowing that (having spent much of my life along the coast and in port cities, it completely slipped my mind.

Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

Like most cliche's its easily understood. I think that is one of the major requirements for anything to become a cliche, but then it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

The entire point in writing isn't to 'sound like everyone else'. Instead, it's to create original works which stand out from others, even when discussing similar topics. In dialogue, you want the discussion to sound like a normal conversation, in part, to flavor who the characters are, but just tossing in whatever cliche comes to mind doesn't make your story stand out in any way. Virtually any author can "piston away like a piledriver", but few can get away with it. There's a thin line between convenient and forgettable.

Back to Top