Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Mind Control is NOT a lazy way of writing a story. It can be the topic about which a story is written, and it could be considered a lazy way for the characters to achieve their goals. What you need to consider is fiction stories are about peoples' fantasies. No one really wants to hear about the downside associated with their fantasies.

I'm not sure about that. For me, Mind-Control is a handy way to avoid developing both the story and the characters involved. If a specific character will only end up being a brain-dead puppet, when why develop and explore their individual personality quirks? The same with the plot, if people have no option in what happens to them, and NO ONE ever struggles to free themselves, then there's ZERO moral ramifications. It's one thing to say 'I feel bad about enslaving hundreds of people', but it's another thing entirely to DO something about it. It's akin to saying "I have a black friend" as shorthand for "I can't be bothered learning about anyone else's culture unless they conform to my expectations".

If you really want to write about character conflicts, then write about your mind-control subjects breaking free, and the character having to chase them down and re-enslaving them, and then explore how that makes them free. But again, if no one ever voices a doubt about their situation, there really IS no meaningful conflict.

For me, Mind-Control is a handy way to avoid developing both the story and the characters involved.

You're assuming poor writing. Just like any other plot, you can write a good story or a brainless story.

The 3 main conflicts are:
1. man vs man
2. man vs self
3. man vs nature

Write a story about someone who gains mind control capabilities and create a "man vs self" conflict with him wanting to use it but knowing it's wrong.

Then you should love my short story "The BIQ's". A teenage boy can compel anyone to physically do anything but can't control their thoughts at all. It's a revenge story and one of my most downloaded.

I'm not sure about that. For me, Mind-Control is a handy way to avoid developing both the story and the characters involved. If a specific character will only end up being a brain-dead puppet, when why develop and explore their individual personality quirks? The same with the plot, if people have no option in what happens to them, and NO ONE ever struggles to free themselves, then there's ZERO moral ramifications. It's one thing to say 'I feel bad about enslaving hundreds of people', but it's another thing entirely to DO something about it. It's akin to saying "I have a black friend" as shorthand for "I can't be bothered learning about anyone else's culture unless they conform to my expectations".

I think think it depends on whether a person is turned into a "brain-dead" puppet by mind control. The Mind Control genre can range from your bimbo, brain-dead level all they way down to a subtle, personality change that lets the mind-controller alter their victim(s) in a way to gain what he/she wants (usually what he/she wants is SEX if the story is published on this site, lol).

It really is unfair to criticize the mind control genre as "lazy" as the initial poster suggested. Like with any genre, there are terrific stories in the mind control genre and crappy stories in other genres.

For the record, as a purveyor of MC stories (not an expert, but certainly experienced), I really enjoyed your Catalyst series. While it is not a truly MC genre perse, Alex's effect on his girls, could easily be described as subtle mind control.

It really is unfair to criticize the mind control genre as "lazy" as the initial poster suggested. Like with any genre, there are terrific stories in the mind control genre and crappy stories in other genres.

My point was that the genre, as a whole, veers towards the lazy plot. While there are some amazing examples ("Sleepwalker" has always been a favorite), must go develop the characters a great deal. As I stressed, if you introduce conflicts both between the MC character and between him and his characters, then it can cross that initial barrier. But the ones that do are fairly infrequent. :( (Not saying it can't be done, just that it's not common.)

Not saying it can't be done, just that it's not common.

That's because there's another aspect to fiction — fantasy.

The reader wants the MC to be all-controlling. Get anything he wants. Wants Jack Reacher and Rambo to always win. Wants the nerd to get the girl.

That's because there's another aspect to fiction — fantasy.

The reader wants the MC to be all-controlling. Get anything he wants. Wants Jack Reacher and Rambo to always win. Wants the nerd to get the girl.

I always figure that no one deserves to win unless they invest themselves. That means, not just continually hitting a lucky streak, but seriously questioning themselves, reflecting on their life choices, and deciding how they can best improve themselves. I'll even double down, not only are MC stories 'lazy', but so too are the 'too powerful' heroes who can never fail. Superman was popular back in the 40s, when Americans seriously doubted they could win at anything due to the severe economic losses, but his moment in the sun ended when he was unseated as 'Americas' most popular' hero by characters like Spiderman, who's perpetually wracked with self-doubts, or even fellow DC hero Batman, who's essentially a broken man whose wealth has bought him no peace and he works out his problems by beating people up with absolutely no regard for the law.

For me, 'Fantasy' encompasses things too unbelievable to be accepted anywhere else, not 'faultless' superheroes without flaws, doubts or even basic emotions.

I'll even double down, not only are MC stories 'lazy', but so too are the 'too powerful' heroes who can never fail.

Read the introduction to the first Jack Reacher novel. Lee Child explains why he came up with a character that always wins. I don't want to go looking for it and, anyway, Amazon doesn't allow a copy and paste from their "Look Inside."

You may not like those stories, but I love them.

You may not like those stories, but I love them.

You're right, they are popular, but they hardly rise to the level of 'serious fiction' because, like your other examples, they're all examples of simple 'wish fulfillment' (ex: "Man, wouldn't it be wonderful if I could rape anyone I wanted, shoot someone in the street and still become President of the U.S.A.!")

There's a difference between popular and having anything of value to offer (not that I'm criticizing your literary chops, Switch, I'm just arguing against your 'it's popular' argument).

My point was that the genre, as a whole, veers towards the lazy plot. While there are some amazing examples ("Sleepwalker" has always been a favorite), must go develop the characters a great deal. As I stressed, if you introduce conflicts both between the MC character and between him and his characters, then it can cross that initial barrier. But the ones that do are fairly infrequent. :( (Not saying it can't be done, just that it's not common.)

You're missing my point, CW. First of all, MC does not equate to "braindead". It can and I'd agree that stories that are purely stroke mind control tales can be bereft of character development. But there are a number of stories (including some of mine), that involve characters that have been controlled and still have their personalities intact (if not, somewhat changed). These characters can be developed in the way any character in any story can be developed.

Regardless of what genre I write in (including Mind Control), I make a point to try to develop my main characters and important (and even secondary) characters. To me, character development is THE primary aspect of writing. My belief is if you develop good characters, everything else will follow.

Again, MC stories can be subtle and feature all of the great story elements of any other kind of genre. There are stories in every genre with crappy plots and lazy character development. I think it is unfair to stereotype the entire MC genre as "lazy".

As I mentioned, your terrific Catalyst series is pretty damned close to having the element of mind control. I could easily argue that it has it (and you had no problem developing some fine characters, lol).

You're missing my point, CW. First of all, MC does not equate to "braindead". It can and I'd agree that stories that are purely stroke mind control tales can be bereft of character development. But there are a number of stories (including some of mine), that involve characters that have been controlled and still have their personalities intact (if not, somewhat changed). These characters can be developed in the way any character in any story can be developed.

And you're also missing my point. It's true, there are some wonderful MC stories, but the genre is based on a lazy wish-fulfillment trope that makes it difficult to write meaningful stories. Thus the good examples are outnumbered by the truly terrible 'rape fantasy' elements. I'm not saying that decent examples can't be written, only that it's more difficult to write them, because of the genre's basic assumptions going in.

Way back up in this thread, I gave a couple of fairly easy to pull off controls to keep MC stories from veering into simple 'rape fantasies' (ex: someone becoming incapacitated, or losing years from their life every time they 'control' anyone, or someone who has to 'fight' those controlled the entire time they're controlled, so it becomes too exhausting to continue to control them, then pitting them against those seeing revenge for their enslavement). But those types of plots are few and far between.

Face it, many genre favorites are popular because the basic assumptions make them incredibly easy to write, because most of the plot is handled on autopilot. Those, to me, are examples of lazy writing simply because the authors don't get into it to write superior fiction, but because they don't have to waste much time on plot development.

That's why, every time I undertake a new subgenre (PA, zombie apocalypse, MC, telepathy) I try to turn the entire genre on it's head and do the exact opposite of what's expected, because face it, the expected ends up being mind-numbingly boring after a while.

By the way, my Catalyst series wasn't written as a MC story, but as a way of justifying how harem stories might unfold in a logical and rational scenario (i.e. where the women would want to be in a given harem situation). I tried that for two different series (Catalyst and Great Death) until I finally got it out of my system).

but the genre is based on a lazy wish-fulfillment trope that makes it difficult to write meaningful stories.

I saw the movie "Justice League" today. Batman. Flash. Wonder Woman. Superman. That genre is one of the most popular and enjoyable today. Throw in Iron Man, the Hulk, Spider Man, etc.

I hated it. They're not believable for me. And stupid. But I won't say the author is lazy. And it's unfair to call authors of mind control lazy.

I hated it. They're not believable for me. And stupid. But I won't say the author is lazy. And it's unfair to call authors of mind control lazy.

That's fair. The sub-genre itself, like PA and zombie apocalypse stories, is lazy, because it allows the most rudimentary of authors to easily craft a plot with very little real effort. The only real requirement is to create a couple of relatable poor souls trying to defend themselves, and you don't need to do much rather than writing action scenes.

Granted, there have been some tremendous books in each field, but the sub-genres don't require the same amount of work that science fiction, historical fiction or even romance does. Even mysteries require a believable caper to solve without pulling out an unbelievable 'solution'.

By the way, Switch, superhero movies are incredibly popular, but D.C. comics haven't been popular since the 40's. Everyone is nuts for Marvel, because their characters are relatable because, aside from fighting crimes, they wrestle with real-world issues like acceptance, discrimination, and the social costs of acting like a vigilante. Aside from the various recent Wonder Woman movies, none of the D.C. movies have done nearly as well. Their characters are just too perfect to interest most readers.

P.S. That's also why it's so much fun to occasionally write in these sub-genres. The creativity bar is set SO low, it doesn't take much to rise above the competition. Drama, police dramas or even action-adventures take significantly more work.

So yes, I take back my comments about those who write in these sub-genres being 'lazy', but the genres simply make churning out 'the same ol' shit' too easy.

By the way, Switch, superhero movies are incredibly popular, but D.C. comics haven't been popular since the 40's. Everyone is nuts for Marvel, because their characters are relatable because, aside from fighting crimes, they wrestle with real-world issues like acceptance, discrimination, and the social costs of acting like a vigilante. Aside from the various recent Wonder Woman movies, none of the D.C. movies have done nearly as well. Their characters are just too perfect to interest most readers.

DC Comics are still popular, but ... their movies (other than WW) - just suck. Back when the first Superman movie came out, it was state of the art and you really believed he could fly. By the time they stuck Richard Pryor in, the genre had devolved to camp.

Then they've done Batman to death. And it's the same damned story, over and over again. The only bright spot in that whole mess was Heath Ledger as Joker.

But I think the main reason why Marvel movies are so popular now is that you'd be hard pressed to find someone over the age of 30 who doesn't know who Superman and Batman are - but who may not be aware who Wolverine (my favorite X-Man) or Deadpool (my wife loves those movies) are. And since most movie fans DON'T know who these folks are, there's no cultural standard that the movie makers have to meet. You KNOW that Superman isn't going to kill someone (except Zod) because he's ALWAYS the good guy. No conflict. Not so much in the Marvel universe.

Not Jack Nicholas?

Don't you mean Jack Nicholson?

AJ

Was he a Saint?

Jack Nicholas

He was the devil. I belonged to the first golf course he architected.

Sand traps so deep they had ladders, and if you were lucky you'd see the top of the flag when inside. Greens so slick you could tap the ball and, if it missed the hole, be 20 yards off the green. Oh, did I mention he invented target golf with that course? Sometimes you had to hit over desert 3 times to get to the green.

Truly the devil.

The only bright spot in that whole mess was Heath Ledger as Joker.

Not Jack Nicholas?

He took a 9-iron to Batman's head.

Not Jack Nicholas?

That's about par for the comments around here. :)

Jack Nicholson played Joker, Jack Nicklaus played golf.

Nicholson was okay, but he did a better job as Randle McMurphy playing off against Louise Fletcher as Nurse Ratched. The problem is he showed off as Jack Torrance in 'The Shining', too, so it was almost like in the Batman movie he was trying to pay homage to Cesar Romero and not be his own villain, whereas Heath Ledger went full fledged over the cuckoo's nest in his portrayal as Joker.

I'm kinda simple and easy to please, Gal Gadot in my bed willing to be friendly would be very pleasing.

I'm still looking for my Gal Gadot! 'D

Your story, 'The Consequences and Rewards of Playing Hooky' has been requested multiple times in the Lost Stories forum. And with good reason - it's the polar opposite of lazy, brain-dead wish-fulfillment.

AJ

Your story, 'The Consequences and Rewards of Playing Hooky' has been requested multiple times in the Lost Stories forum. And with good reason - it's the polar opposite of lazy, brain-dead wish-fulfillment.

AJ

Thanks, AJ! Still loving your story, which is a great example of mind control in its own way, because people are being controlled to believe something that isn't true.

I see CW's and the initial poster's point, but they are indulging in some gross generalization here. Yes, lots of these stories favor rape fantasies/wish fulfillment and tend to wear the stroke or much sex labels. Still, there are a lot of mind control stories that are well written in terms of both character and plot development.

I've written at least 30 stories (published here and other places) that have touched on or featured Mind Control. I'd like to think that I've done a decent job of developing characters and plots (even if those plots aren't always completely original). Authors like El Sol and Billy Ray have also written some terrific MC stories that are available on this website too.

In CW's Catalyst Series, his main character's innate abilities affect some people in a way that is similar to mind control (it goes well beyond simple charisma). While it is not quite as simply as calling it MC (because there is more to this innate ability), the ability causes others to act out of character. In that way, it is similar to mind control. I won't say any more to avoid spoilers, but the series is really a terrific read.

My point is that while there are many stories that meet the complaint of the initial poster, there are plenty of stories that don't.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is lazy to call the entire genre of mind control "lazy", lol.

Many years ago, I wrote most of a story in which the protagonist is gifted a mind control device in return for risking his life to help crash-landed aliens repair their spaceship.

The protagonist interrupts a bunch of kids who are robbing him, managing to capture the oldest. On using the mind-control device, he discovers the kid is a girl and the group were robbing him for food because their mother is a non-functional depressed alcoholic.

He gets the girl to shower while he launders her rags and orders large pizzas. After the girl is clean and full, she feels good about herself. The protagonist is also horny because his girlfriend recently left him. The result is a feedback loop leading to universe-reorienting sex. Neither party gave informed consent for sex so it was rape, but who was raping whom?

In the aftermath, the protagonist is appalled to realise he has had sex with an underage girl, and the girl is appalled that she broke her cultural norms by having unprotected sex before marriage. The protagonist lets the girl leave with the uneaten pizzas for her siblings, telling her that if she comes back the next day he'll have the morning-after pill for her and he'll feed all the kids.

I will probably never finish the story. I can't think of a suitable site to host it, and somehow completing the story would feel like killing the characters :(

AJ

I will probably never finish the story. I can't think of a suitable site to host it, and somehow completing the story would feel like killing the characters :(

As long as the girl is 14 or older, it's allowing on SOL. Also, for the most part, while rape is grounds to deleting most published stories nowadays, mind-control provides 'just enough' distance from the real thing to allow you to skate by it in most instances. Readers may not like it, but they're unlikely to report you for violating a site's TOCs.

And that only happens in storiesonline because apparently, mc with any significant supernatural abilities use it to enslave everyone in their vicinity as their sex slaves.

You haven't seen the movie "Hearts in Atlantis." The Anthony Hopkins character had mind powers he didn't use for sex. (He did use it to win money gambling to live on.)

And, @docholladay, he was running from the government that wanted to use his powers.

You haven't seen the movie "Hearts in Atlantis." The Anthony Hopkins character had mind powers he didn't use for sex. (He did use it to win money gambling to live on.)

Again, that's a better story choice, because it presents a very real (vs. merely a 'pretend' conscience), as the character has to decide what's the least morally reprehensible use of their powers, even if there's no real way to 'do good' with them.

But in the end, would you rather be a robber baron who gives an exceptionally small share of his ill-gotten gains for tax purposes, or would you rather do the morally correct thing because you've got a soul?

Given the ability above, most authors would go to the FBI/CIA spy type route.

Why can't the mc try to be normal and use the said ability to any hobby/sport and bring spice to it.

I like associating costs with a particular ability. However, with most mind-control stories, there's NO cost associated with enslaving people, they don't even have to deal with a minor moral headache.

In my current story, the lead character has precognition (i.e. the ability to see how things unfold in the future), however, his ability to see when people get in trouble tends to produce more trouble as he dives in, only to upset things even more.

That first story did focus on FBI/CIA spy type routes, but in the end, it was revealed that the ability was actually intended as a mean of providing faster-than-light travel, since a precog "Intuit" can anticipate striking an object while traveling at the speed of light, which could literally destroy an entire solar system! But, since those people are highly sought in warfare, it means they're immediately drafted into an intergalactic war they have no interest in waging (in the current book). Again, there are clear benefits and costs.

Even if it's simple. Every time you 'convince' someone to do you a favor, your left incredibly weak, or you lose years of your natural life (as I did in my first series), you'll carefully consider what's worth the investment, rather than thinking 'uh, pretty girl, must rape immediately!'

And don't forget the Al Pacino movie "The Devil's Advocate." It was the inspiration for my story "Satan's Son."

Just because it's mind control doesn't mean it's crap.

It seems the Al Pacino character, the Devil, AKA John Milton (ho ho ho) used "mind control" to create visions and, of course, to offer delights beyond one's imagination if only the person would give in. Something like the 40 days in the wilderness and the view from the top of the mountain (or a Manhattan skyscraper with an infinity pool, same difference).

Keanu Reeves' wife commits suicide because she sees the junior devil for what she is, but that's not mind control. He didn't control the Keanu Reeves character, although he tempted him and very likely successfully, but the movie ends before we know for sure.

bb

Just because it's mind control doesn't mean it's crap.

No one ever claimed it was 'crap', they merely pointing out that it's 'lazy' (i.e. you spend less time developing characters and situations, diving right into the action and bypassing any moral responsibility by the characters). You CAN write a decent story that way, but it's clearly the exception, rather than the rule.

I appreciate authors who write mind control stories on SOL. I enjoy some of the stories.

The 'control' stories I like the best, which parenthetically are ALL about explicit rape, are those where a family friend rapes a woman, who learns it's the ONLY way she can have satisfying sex. Thus it becomes a moral choice for her, does she continue betraying her husband, against her will, by refusing to report him, or does she continue 'playing along' in exchange for a thoroughly unsatisfying sex life. At least there, you have a real moral conflict, even if you hate all the characters involved!

I try to focus on one genre and when im finished with it somewhat i move on to the next.

I tend to pick stories which offer me a chance to turn an established genre on its head, approaching it from a completely new angle. Often, having done that (and thinking I was finished) new opportunities for turning the story in unexpected directions open up, and I end up writing sequels to it.

Just as readers need to move on to other genres, so too do authors, lest they pigeon hole themselves and just crank out the same schlock, over and over. :(

For a mind controller there is no such thing as too much control, as long as they are the one doing the controlling.

In my story, the underage girl returned with her siblings and managed to seduce the protagonist. She was damaged goods as far as her own culture was concerned, so there was no point in denying herself more great sex (since the protagonist had learned through the mind link what pushed her buttons).

So you're spot on about the dangers of mind control and the resultant affinity.

AJ

So you're spot on about the dangers of mind control and the resultant affinity.

I was looking at it more as a fix for the topic discussion: mind control being lazy writing. But putting serious restrictions on the ability, making it more of a liability rather than purely wish-fulfillment, we might end up with better stories.

Plots constructed without much thought aren't terribly challenging. Chasing one skirt after another without any personal growth isn't very fulfilling. In order for a character to develop, they need to overcome a challenge to become something better than they were initially, otherwise there's simply no story arc.

As opposed to my stories, where each story has the same, identical story arc. Hee-hee!

With regard to reading minds, how much do humans think in words that could be "read"? Obviously, some thoughts can't even be expressed in words, but I'm curious about "I need to go to the kitchen to get some milk." In my own mind, I get the impression that there can be a string of thoughts that flashes by much too quickly to be put into words, but due to the observer effect, trying to watch my thoughts changes the thoughts. I was thinking maybe some scientists have tried to study this.

For Sci-Fi, it's a handy way to dance around the limitations of humans instantly having meaningful communications with an alien race (i.e. the thoughts in one persons minds instantly target the comparable brain centers in the other person's mind). But often, it's merely impulses. Instead of reading something thinking "I need to go to the kitchen to get some mild", they simply flash 'milk' and think of the rest themselves. At least, if they're putting some original thought into the project.

In this particular case, the existing, immediate local, Texan government and the local clergy are the baddies and are being dealt with rather ruthlessly by Julian Vaughan. Not to mention how he dealt with the local Klan leader.

they are looking for an assist into the realm of erotic fantasy.

Good way to say it.

@Remus2

they are looking for an assist into the realm of erotic fantasy.

Good way to say it.

Yep and it is actually a kink for many too.

But if you're American and of a certain age, you were probably raised according to Spock's "Baby & Child Care" ;)

AJ

I'll see that

muddled version of traditional German and Native American

and raise you a mountain baptist wild child alcoholic who herself was raised during the Depression. ;)

Sometimes, I had learned early on if I sat real quiet adults would forget that I was in the room and then things would get real interesting. ;)

and raise you a mountain baptist wild child alcoholic who herself was raised during the Depression. ;)

Sounds like she had plenty to be depressed about.

She did. I was in my mid-twenties before I realized the enormity of the pain she had faced and realized she had done her best to cope. It was then I forgave her because I realized she had not been malicious towards us. She had done her best. Towards those who want to say there's no excuse try this:

: Father murdered before born. No man = no income
: Early childhood is during the great depression. 1 year Christmas is a single orange.
: Age 12 Shot with a shotgun by a would-be rapist. One leg disfigured. This was during the ERA of LEGS.
: At least 2 rapes that I know of
: Spent several years as a single mother.
: Finally, meets and marries my father has my sister and I less than four years later he dies. Now, a single mother again.

How strong of a person would you of been? If you haven't suffered at least one major life catastrophe or at least had to tell someone their family member has just died please don't answer and tell me how strong you would have been because frankly, you don't know shit.

Sorry, I wasn't passing judgment, just making an honest evaluation of her condition (i.e. what she went through sounds like it's enough to depress most people.

Crumbly, I never believed you were. I know you've seen too much in life to rush in with an I'd done it better.

I was just lettin' some of the youngbloods who haven't left the armchair yet know that their theoretical QB plays don't mean shit till they've been on the field a few times.

I was just lettin' some of the youngbloods who haven't left the armchair yet know that their theoretical QB plays don't mean shit till they've been on the field a few times.

Each 'personal' situation is dependent upon the individual circumstances of that individual's life, and thus aren't really fixed by specific approaches. Where this breaks down, however, is that people like to make assumptions, thus 'because I know someone who refuses to change their behaviors', it must mean that anyone in dire consequences simply isn't willing to make the necessary changes in their life. While that's often true in many instances, it's dangerous making the argument for everyone (though it's fine for creating fictional people who behave stereotypically).

No one would ever argue that a particular approach might work in a specific case, only that it's likely to fail in other circumstances.

What's really interesting is sometimes the bad behaviour is honestly the BEST they can offer for whatever reason. It's not that they aren't giving their best over top superhuman effort. It that that effort is horrible and has horrible consequences. Beating them on the head won't help and telling them they should try harder won't help because they can't. It sucks to be them and it sucks to be under their influence. Sometimes life helps them, sometimes it destroys them and sometimes they live a long pain-ridden life.

What's really interesting is sometimes the bad behaviour is honestly the BEST they can offer for whatever reason. It's not that they aren't giving their best over top superhuman effort. It that that effort is horrible and has horrible consequences. Beating them on the head won't help and telling them they should try harder won't help because they can't. It sucks to be them and it sucks to be under their influence. Sometimes life helps them, sometimes it destroys them and sometimes they live a long pain-ridden life.

And what's even more essential, is that often, to turn one's life around, you often have to hit rock bottom before you're willing to admit your current life strategies aren't working. So instead of passing judgment on people because of their personal failures, we should be helping people to face their failures openly and honestly, as it's the best chance they'll actually become better people and finally achieve something again.

The whole 'blame the victim' mentality short circuits that entire process.

I was just lettin' some of the youngbloods who haven't left the armchair yet know that their theoretical QB plays don't mean shit till they've been on the field a few times.

What you've said is simply a testament to the strength of humans and how even in adversity, if you have a strong enough character, you don't give up.

Isn't that the prime example of a statement made while sitting on a comfortable recliner?

While I'm sitting in my comfortable desk chair now ... I'm also the second longest living testicular cancer patient in the world (at least according to my doctor, who is the one who actually came up with that cure), and I had heart valve replacement surgery last fall due to aortic stenosis.

I heard from my grandparents all the good stuff - my paternal grandfather started working in a coal mine at age 8 to support his mother and siblings, my paternal grandmother actually traveled in a covered wagon to her first teaching job in Montana. My maternal grandmother had raised 3 children by herself, the youngest was 3 (my mother) when her husband died in 1936 from tuberculosis he picked up as a US Marine in WWI.

Just because you've faced adversity doesn't mean you still can't have nice things later on in life - like a comfortable recliner or office chair.

Lol, I'm not much for stuff per say. I have a home, that resembles a shack. My office chair is absolutely decadent with brown leather and deep plush cushions that any fortune 50 and I do mean 50 CEO would be proud to plonk his ass in. I splurge rarely, but when I do I do it right.

Lol, I'm sure he'll learn in time what happens when you tease the kitty.

Of course, I always had to do things the hard way myself.

Me: Honey can I have a pet?

Her: I guess, What do you want?

Me: (Holds hand about chin high) One about this tall with long brown hair about 18 years old.

That did not go over well. lol

Still I have my office with the same chair, a desk, PC, and books.

But surely not the same PC. 'D Decent chairs last. Expensive computers, not so much.

I heard from my grandparents all the good stuff - my paternal grandfather started working in a coal mine at age 8 to support his mother and siblings, my paternal grandmother actually traveled in a covered wagon to her first teaching job in Montana. My maternal grandmother had raised 3 children by herself, the youngest was 3 (my mother) when her husband died in 1936 from tuberculosis he picked up as a US Marine in WWI.

Those all sound like the making of one phenomenal story, all told while sitting in your 'comfortable desk chair'.

As my other thread about the writing advice of Baldwin demonstrates, writing is all about overcoming the odds, and struggling on, despite everyone telling you that you'll never succeed. About how writers don't choose to become authors, they discover that they have stories inside which they have to free, and that, in order to justify their existence, they have to struggle to learn the craft to overcome those same odds.

Just because your struggle occurs in a comfortable chair doesn't mean your struggle is any less intense than other's physical struggles. It's just a different kind of struggle, one which few others are driven to face, namely tackles those issue society as a whole refuse to admit about themselves, but doing it in a way which excites readers, rather than repelling them.

Isn't that the prime example of a statement made while sitting on a comfortable recliner?

Ha-ha! That's why I said 'it's my favorite type of story to write', as I work from the comfort of my ergonomic desk chair for hours on end. I just prefer stories which feature struggles to succeed, and where those struggles pay off in the end, no matter how dour the odds look in the process. (You've gotta admit, most of my stories are fairly dark, so my 'happy endings' are the only thing which makes them tolerable!) 'D

Amen Billy Ray. You are certainly one of the finest of this genre on SOL and at the other place.

Like in any story, conflict can be created in many ways (internally and externally). What people who are not fans of the genre fail to understand is that it is not merely about wish fulfillment with no plot or character development. As you state there are stories like that but then again there are mainstream stories that are simply boy meets girl, they get married, the end. Every genre has stories that don't contain decent plot and character development, not just MC stories.

Why look for fiction in a field?

You have been spending way too much time with the Grinning Dick. I shudder to think what your children will be like. :P