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To editors - please fix incorrect use of woman/women in stories

Attila Iskander

I have come across a problem that goes across stories and authors.

It's a minor annoyance when encountered rarely, but the cumulative effect is now distracting from the story.

On a regular basis, in different stories by different authors, the use of "woman" and "women" are not related to the singular or plural context of the story,

Typically the errors are in the nature of:
"I loved that women"
"I admire those woman"

This error carries across many authors and stories.
It is probably the most common error on this site.

Unfortunately, I have not made notes on the individual stories with this problem to be able to give a detailed list.

Thanks for the chance to vent.

Replies:   Zom  awnlee jawking
Zom

@Attila Iskander

It is probably the most common error on this site.

I think then/than is more common, closely followed by their/they're and whose/who's.

Replies:   Grant
awnlee jawking

@Attila Iskander

I've noticed a lot of monobreasted women in stories ;)

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

I've noticed a lot of monobreasted women in stories ;)


Breast Cancer survivors need loving too! :P

But yeah, the singular/plural mixup on woman/women does elicit chuckles when I see it happen. Although I don't think it is quite so common as the OP makes it out to be. I agree their/there/they're and then/than being more common.

I'd probably add to/too/two to the list as well. See also: the homonym abuse discussion. :)

Crumbly Writer

Just a quick note, Attila, if you're hoping to reach editors, you'll reach more by posting under "Editing/Reviews", just as you'll reach more authors by posting under "Author Topics". This forum ("Story Discussions") is more reader centric. It does get a variety of authors and editors, but not as many as the more focused forums.

Replies:   Attila Iskander
Grant

@Zom

I think then/than is more common, closely followed by their/they're and whose/who's.

Depends on the author.
The incorrect usage of woman/women is something that annoys me, and I've noticed a lot of it occurring.

Replies:   Zom
Zom

@Grant

Depends on the author.

Yes, unless the scope of the discussion is the whole site.

Replies:   Grant
Grant
Updated:

@Zom

Depends on the author.


Yes, unless the scope of the discussion is the whole site.

And as I mentioned, I've noticed a lot of it.

Another for the list- past/passed.

EDIT- and distain when i'm sure they meant disdain.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Not_a_ID
Crumbly Writer

@Grant

And as I mentioned, I've noticed a lot of it.

Another for the list- past/passed.

EDIT- and distain when i'm sure they meant disdain.

We should all dive/dove right into it!

Not_a_ID

@Grant

EDIT- and distain when i'm sure they meant disdain.


How about the defiantly definite?

LonelyDad

Another set that does me is when they add an unnecessary -ed to make past tense. Ex: slitted instead of slit, which has the same form for past, present, and future tenses. Or slinked instead of slunk. There are quite a few of those oddball tense forms that don't conform to the rules. When I took English in high school we had to just memorize them but I doubt that is required these days. It's just too much to ask those poor students who are too busy being prepped for the next Common Core tests. Gotta have good scores for those you know.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@LonelyDad

Another set that does me is when they add an unnecessary -ed to make past tense.


Language evolves over time. You may have to resign yourself to getting used to a few of those.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Dominions Son

Language evolves over time.


The process is called "entropy" which eventually degenerates to mumbling, illiteracy, and chaotic head-bashing with clubs.

Chaucer would weep. Dude, he'd really, like, lose it.

richardshagrin

Someday the stories on SOL will be considered middle English and scholars will be needed to update or translate them into "modern" English. Or maybe Chinese. The old joke, optimists are learning Russian, Pessimists Chinese.

sejintenej

Just trying to check one (unfinished) story where a black woman arrives and, minutes later, after a shower, she is caramel coloured. At least the author seems to have spelling and clarity under control

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Ernest Bywater

Just finished reading a story where the main character and another road into town together in his friend's car. At another point they went site-seeing as well.

Replies:   graybyrd  Switch Blayde
graybyrd

@Ernest Bywater

the main character and another road into town together


Were they sweathearts? Perhaps a preacher and a red-headed school teacher? Who preached the teacher; who teached the preacher. Who? He? A gay sight in the townsite? But she's Orthodox; he's a Mathematician! How sweat!

awnlee jawking

@sejintenej

In some cultures just about any non-whites and non-East Asians are called 'black', including Jennifer Lopez.

Many Americans call Barack Obama 'black', despite his being mixed race.

AJ

Replies:   graybyrd  bondsman
Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

At another point they went site-seeing as well.


Maybe they were looking for a site to build a house on.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Switch Blayde

Maybe they were looking for a site to build a house on.


Or looking for places to erect naked Trump statues.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

naked Trump statues


As long as it's not Donald. Nobody wants to see him naked.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Dominions Son

naked Trump statues


As long as it's not Donald. Nobody wants to see him naked.

This is the Internet.
As long as there's enough people connected to it, i'm sure that there will be a demand for a fully covered in latex Donald wearing a gas mask in stilettos & suspenders holding a lit cigarette with a fully automatic weapon slung over his shoulder.

There really is some weird crap out there. The problem with the Internet is once you've seen something, you can't un-see it.

Ernest Bywater

just read a story where I fellow was told to bring his cheek book into pay a bill.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

just read a story where I fellow was told to bring his cheek book into pay a bill.

That's when someone signs their checks by holding their pen between their ass cheeks and squating over their the check book to write their signature. Anal leakage may produce some unauthorized signatures.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

Does this mean they are old farts?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Not_a_ID
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Does this mean they are old farts?

Nope. Old squirts.

Not_a_ID

@richardshagrin

Does this mean they are old farts?


Depends, are they members of Parliament in Canada?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

Depends, are they members of Parliament in Canada?

If they're anything like Congress, they don't pay for anything, instead billing the public for virtually everything they do, and then funding everything else though either political donations or 'gifts' from special interest groups. That's why so many members of Congress are millionaires. They certainly didn't all start out that way.

Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

just read a story where I fellow was told to bring his cheek book into pay a bill.


Had to look at that several times, and took Crumbly responding to figure it out. Two typos, and the second one, "in to" becoming "into" blew my mind for some reason and broke my brain. I couldn't parse it at that point.

At least it wasn't "inn two"

Crumbly Writer

The number of ways an author can screw up a story are infinitely larger than the ways they can make a story work! That's why volunteer editors on SOL earn such big bucks!

graybyrd

@awnlee jawking

Many Americans call Barack Obama 'black', despite his being mixed race.


Don't forget the 'one drop' rule; many Americans, especially those in the South, believe that one drop of African-American blood establishes one's racial identity.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  madnige
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

Don't forget the 'one drop' rule; many Americans, especially those in the South, believe that one drop of African-American blood establishes one's racial identity.

Yet they ignore the gallons of stupidity in those around them.

Replies:   Zom  graybyrd
Zom

@Crumbly Writer

gallons of stupidity in those around them

Thanks Forest :-)

smask

I've mentioned this in another thread: All these people who speak with horse voices when they have sex.

Horse voice - whinnying?

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@smask

Horse voice - whinnying?


Or they're imitating Mr. Ed.

richardshagrin

Maybe they are ponygirls.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
graybyrd
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Yet they ignore the gallons of stupidity in those around them.


It's hard to ignore the poster child for the "one drop rule" thinkers, now that he's been nominated to enforce it all across the U.S. Doff your Klan hood to Senator Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, nominee for Attorney General of the United States. Sir, which is the greater offense: that drop of blood in one's veins, or the Koran in one's hand?

sejintenej
Updated:

Just a few from today's finds. The second one is from the centre of what is probably a 'cut and paste' job

(Answer to a suggestion when he is looking for a story)
Thanks Paliden, but that was not it, nor where the other stories by that author .........

It's because the Emergency personal are to dammed lazy to find the body

Being a three care garage and only having one car ....

(edited to try to sort out the quotes)

Replies:   Not_a_ID
bondsman

@awnlee jawking

Many Americans call Barack Obama 'black', despite his being mixed race.

If you research this a bit farther I think you'll find that being identified as "black" was, at least in part, his choice, as it is with many persons of mixed racial backgrounds.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
madnige

@graybyrd

many Americans, especially those in the South, believe that one drop of African-American blood establishes one's racial identity


So by their reckoning, we're all 'black' as the Y-chromosome 'Adam' and mitochondrial 'Eve' were both from sub-Saharan Africa

Pot, meet Kettle.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@madnige

But we're not all all black - many of us are part Neanderthal ;)

AJ

awnlee jawking

@bondsman

Being called 'America's first black president' probably has more kudos than being called 'America's first mixed-race president'. I can see 'mixed-race' becoming pejorative then deprecated.

AJ

Replies:   bondsman
bondsman

@awnlee jawking

Exactly as to kudos and perceptions. In some countries and geographical areas "mixed-race" is already a pejorative, and not all are "black"/"white" comparisons.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@bondsman

Exactly as to kudos and perceptions. In some countries and geographical areas "mixed-race" is already a pejorative, and not all are "black"/"white" comparisons.

Even in America with its black/white perspectives on everything, there's a big difference between segments of different minority communities. Jamaicans are very different than American blacks, while Puerto Ricans and Cubans are very different than the more generic "Hispanics". Understanding the differences between these groups can have a big impact on a story, but only if you can convey the differences in easy-to-understand language.

richardshagrin

There can be tensions between a lot of different peoples. I went to Ballard High school in Seattle in 1959 and was surprised how much tension there was between Swedes and Norwegians, at least their parents were of Swedish or Norwegian heritage. You don't have to have different colors to have conflicts.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Grant
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

I went to Ballard High school in Seattle in 1959 and was surprised how much tension there was between Swedes and Norwegians, at least their parents were of Swedish or Norwegian heritage.

Swedes and Norwegians have been going at it (personal insults, not wars) for hundreds of years. My grandmother was Norwegian, and in college one of my roommates was Swedish (distantly). We'd tear into each other every time we saw each other (playfully, otherwise we got along great). I'd simply take every Pollack joke I'd ever heard, switch Pollock to Swede, say it in a terrible Swedish accent, and I was golden.

We both grew up listening to jokes about the other culture, so when we had an actual foil, we enjoyed the verbal repertoire.

I never did learn the origin of the conflict between the two cultures.

Replies:   Penguintopia  sejintenej
Penguintopia
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


I never did learn the origin of the conflict between the two cultures.


Forcible 'Union of the Crowns' in 1814 during the Napoleonic Wars when Sweden got a French King (Karl XIV Johan, formerly Jean-Baptiste Jules Bernadotte, Marshal of France).

sejintenej
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


I never did learn the origin of the conflict between the two cultures.


What I learned (I worked in Norway) was that Norway used to be part of / ruled by / controlled by Sweden (and Denmark at a different time) until it got independence. During the last century, after independence, there were two separate Parliament decisions which introduced changes in the language. For example the old 'aa' as in King Haakon became å and two other letters were introduced. For me, coming down from the arctic where I learned the old language, the changes in words was a problem - for example 'syve' became 'sju' (the number seven) as was the changes in genders.

During WWII there were stories of people fleeing from the Germans, being arrested in Sweden and being handed over to the Gestapo.

After my return (ie second and subsequent times there) I was introduced to the dislike of Swedes and absolute hatred of Germans. This was in small isolated communities - I cannot speak for the cities

Of course, in Scotland they eat Swedes - they call them neeps ;-)

Grant

@richardshagrin

You don't have to have different colors to have conflicts.

eg The English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese...

Attila Iskander

@Not_a_ID

If anything, women who have suffered the consequences of breast cancer, need even more loving to help their recovery, from both the illness and the it's effect on their self-image.

But I guess, my bucket had finally filled up to the point that I needed to dump it.

My most annoying "spoken" twitch is when an anglophone mispronounces "coup de grace"
They will make the "ce" silent as in:
"coup de gr-ah"
when the correct pronunciation is:
"coup de gr-ah-ss"
When they do that, instead of saying the "the stroke of mercy", killing someone to stop their suffering, they're saying a "strike of fat", or more jokingly "whack with bacon".

Attila Iskander

@Crumbly Writer

Thanks for that clarification.
I will take the time to make the same comment in both those threads..

Attila Iskander

@Ernest Bywater

Didn't you know ?

A "cheek-book" is really high tech.

A cheek-book is something you sit one, so that the contents can penetrate you by osmosis and slowly work their way up to your brain..

That's how I memorized the phone book when I was much younger and very small
I did it during piano lessons too.

Not_a_ID

@sejintenej

It's because the Emergency personal are to dammed lazy to find the body

Being a three care garage and only having one car ....

(edited to try to sort out the quotes)


I don't think emergency personals are very concerned with finding those kinds of bodies. Although I'm now wondering what specifically an emergency personal entails.

Replies:   sejintenej
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Maybe they are ponygirls.


Speaking of horses and ponygirls. It's "mane of hair" NOT "main of hair" or "Maine of hair."

And a person who is vain may or may not have issues with their vein or veins. But we might as well be speaking about a weather vane for all the good it does.

But maybe somebody has some heirs who can sort it out. That or they're trapped in a Maine of Heirs.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

That or they're trapped in a Maine of Heirs.

Sorry, but that'd be "the Maine of Heirs", as it's comparing "hair" to a specific location.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Crumbly Writer

Sorry, but that'd be "the Maine of Heirs", as it's comparing "hair" to a specific location.


Unless it's a named product/item like a Monopoly board game, or something else in that vein where there is a proper name given to it, but it has many copies. Kind of like a Cylon in the latest Battlestar Galactica.

sejintenej
Updated:

@Not_a_ID


sejintenej

It's because the Emergency personal are to dammed lazy to find the body

I don't think emergency personals are very concerned with finding those kinds of bodies. Although I'm now wondering what specifically an emergency personal entails.


Clearly, Not_a_ID, we have a clash of languages.

In the UK the plural of person (in such a case) is personnEl and a reference to excess is tOO. (BTW we also write aN before a vowel ;-) )

As I recall, those bodies were human so what your ambulance staff do .......

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@sejintenej

I guess I need to explain the joke. I was making a play on "personal advertising."

"SWM seeking SWF."

Or to go with a particular song: "Do you like pina coladas?"

Replies:   BlinkReader
BlinkReader

@Not_a_ID

Wow,

This is discussion thread I like to read very much.

For us evil foreigners who are still learning your language, this is real treasure chest, and thank you all for giving us good examples how not to (miss)use it :)

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@BlinkReader

Wow,

This is discussion thread I like to read very much.


Yeah, the "emergency personal" once noticed was a gem I couldn't pass up once I caught it. One case where one small typo could end up giving the sentence it is contained within a completely difference meaning. Even if the person has to be deliberately obtuse to misinterpret what was meant. ;)

For us evil foreigners who are still learning your language, this is real treasure chest, and thank you all for giving us good examples how not to (miss)use it :)


Only one s in misuse. Unless you're talking about either Miss Ewes or Miss Hughes. Maybe you were somehow trying to involve the state of Mississippi? In which case you forgot to capitalize the M. Of course, maybe we were going to get into missile use that completely misses the point. ;)

English is a lot of fun to abuse as well.

Replies:   BlinkReader
BlinkReader

@Not_a_ID

English is a lot of fun to abuse as well.


It is.
Specially when your spelling checker does not work :D

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@BlinkReader

Specially when your spelling checker does not work :D


Smartphone posting and autocomplete/correct brings its own level of special into the conversation a lot of the time as well. :)

richardshagrin

Every once in a while spellcheck corrects a word to something you didn't intend.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Every once in a while spellcheck corrects a word to something you didn't intend.

MOST of the time, spellcheck produces results I not only didn't intend, but flat out don't want!

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Crumbly Writer

MOST of the time, spellcheck produces results I not only didn't intend, but flat out don't want!


Spellcheck is fine, it's autocomplete/autocorrect that creates the grammatical horror shows. At least spellcheck alone lets me know when something was flagged. But leaves it up to me to make the change.

jhnmakii2nd

I just read a story.

Every character in the story seems to be talking fine.

Then here comes the main character, here and there, would say "ya'll".

I don't mind if the author is dedicated to add unique ways of speaking depending on the location but it grinds my gears when everyone would talk normally then all of a sudden the mc would say ya'll.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@jhnmakii2nd

I don't mind if the author is dedicated to add unique ways of speaking depending on the location but it grinds my gears when everyone would talk normally then all of a sudden the mc would say ya'll.

If the main character talks normally, most of the time, then the ya'll is out of character and is a red flag. The least the author should do is account for this odd particularity, rather than leaving it waving in front of readers with no explanation.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

Maybe he is talking about a sailing yacht a two-masted fore-and-aft-rigged sailboat with the mizzenmast stepped far aft so that the mizzen boom overhangs the stern. Pronounced and spelled yawl.

Replies:   jhnmakii2nd
jhnmakii2nd
Updated:

@richardshagrin

It was ya'll as in talking to more than 1 people.

I do understand the ya'll as they were southern but it seemed odd to me that the rest of the characters seemed to speak normal english and the mc too, until every now and then he would speak out ya'll and that would really stand out.

Maybe its a personal quirk to the protagonist? there are some people like that who speaks a word specifically different.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Grant
Crumbly Writer

@jhnmakii2nd

Maybe its a personal quirk to the protagonist? there are some people like that who speaks a word specifically different.

More likely, it's probably the background of the author. Many places in the old south--especially Virginia--continue to use ya'll, while not having much of a traditional southern accent (since most of them are originally from up north).

As far as only the MC using the term, it sounds like the author is trying too hard to make the MC sound authentic. Still, I'd suggest dropping him (the author) a note, as it's easy enough to add a few alternate phrases to help balance out the dialogue.

awnlee jawking

@Not_a_ID

I've just read yet another story in which the woman 'took off her bra and revealed her breast'.

And other stories provided multiple examples where males 'cupped her breast', 'grasped her breast', 'kneaded her breast', 'massaged her breast'. The usages would have been acceptable if it had been established that the female had two breasts and the male was paying attention specifically to one of them, but sadly that's usually not the case.

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

I was mostly(morbidly) joking about the breast cancer survivors, I knew that the vast majority of such instances were people using the singular form when plural was intended.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

I was mostly(morbidly) joking about the breast cancer survivors, I knew that the vast majority of such instances were people using the singular form when plural was intended.

Maybe they're all uni-breasted, where there's so much fat that the two breasts merge into one large expanse?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Maybe they're all uni-breasted, where there's so much fat that the two breasts merge into one large expanse?


Uniboob does happen in real life, but its not a weight(fat) related issue. It's a complication of botched breast enlargement surgery.

There's a show on cable that follows two of the US's top cosmetic surgeons who specialize in repairing botched cosmetic surgeries.

I've seen a few of the episodes, including one where they had to fix a uniboob.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

If they can bisect a uniboob, I'm sure there must also be a market for trisection to end up like a 'Total Recall' Martian - I've noticed a few guys fantasising about them over the years :)

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


If they can bisect a uniboob


To do a breast enlargement, a pocket is created under the breast tissue to hold the implants.

A uniboob occurs when the tissue between the breasts separates from the sternum, the two pockets become interconnected, and the implants migrate to the center of the chest creating the appearance of a single large breast.

It would in theory be possible to create a pocket, stretch the skin out an put an implant between the natural breasts, creating the rough appearance of a third breast, but it wouldn't be functional and it wouldn't have a nipple.

Most reputable cosmetic surgeons would refuse to do something like that.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

It would in theory be possible to create a pocket, stretch the skin out an put an implant between the natural breasts, creating the rough appearance of a third breast, but it wouldn't be functional and it wouldn't have a nipple.

Medical tattooists (those authorized to perform medical procedures) do an incredibly good job at creating fake nipples (they aren't terribly convincing in the flesh, but eliminate the awkward 'smooth expanse of flesh).

My sister worked with some, eventually having them give her 'permanent' lipstick and makeup jobs. Makes getting ready in the morning much faster!

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@Crumbly Writer

Medical Tatooists

My sister worked with some, eventually having them give her 'permanent' lipstick and makeup jobs

There is a beautician close to here where they tattoo eyebrows. They fade and need to be redone every couple of years.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

There is a beautician close to here where they tattoo eyebrows. They fade and need to be redone every couple of years.

That's why it's better to pay the extra money and go to a legitimate medical tattooist, rather than a street corner one. The tattoos still fade over time, but nowhere near that fast.

The problem with most newer tattoo parlors, is they feature 'new inks', which no one knows what's in them, how long they'll last, or whether there are any health concerns in their use. In short, you're gambling with your life just to get a little extra color in your life. Such colors don't exist in nature for good reason.

Grant

@jhnmakii2nd

I do understand the ya'll as they were southern but it seemed odd to me that the rest of the characters seemed to speak normal english and the mc too, until every now and then he would speak out ya'll and that would really stand out.

What is odd to me is the way the word is spelt.
I've always considered it to be an abbreviation for 'you all', so i'd expect it to be spelt y'all.

Replies:   Zom
Zom
Updated:

@Grant

I've always considered it to be an abbreviation for 'you all'

Many consider ya'll to be incorrect, e.g.

http://writingexplained.org/yall-or-ya-ll-difference
but I s'pose it could be a contraction of "ya all".

Yes, "ya" is a variant (US) of "you" described by main-stream dictionaries.

Replies:   Penguintopia  Not_a_ID
Penguintopia
Updated:

@Zom

Many consider ya'll to be incorrect


You mean like "aren't I"? We don't say "I are not", we say "I am not".

English is a hot mess. :-)

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Zom


but I s'pose it could be a contraction of "ya all".

Yes, "ya" is a variant (US) of "you" described by main-stream dictionaries.


It came from Scotland(or more specifically, the "Scotts-Irish" who were the original "red necks" because they wore red bandanas around their neck), and likely was initially "ye all" before becoming a contraction.

Replies:   Zom  sejintenej
Zom

@Not_a_ID

It came from Scotland

Just like OK :-)

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Zom

You have to wonder why all the Scots left Scotland. And brought their take on the English Language with them. I know the Irish left because of the potato famine. Do you suppose there was a whiskey famine?

ustourist

@richardshagrin

I doubt if a Scotsman would ever touch whiskey, let alone mind there was a famine.
Now whisky, that would be a different matter. :)

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@richardshagrin


You have to wonder why all the Scots left Scotland. And brought their take on the English Language with them. I know the Irish left because of the potato famine. Do you suppose there was a whiskey famine?


Well, the Scots-Irish to my understanding were "low-lander" Scots, they also were on the "Wrong side" of a civil war(where they became "red necks") with religious overtones(they were protestant).

So after their side lost, they moved to Northern Ireland, where they weren't very well received(but how they came to be called the Scots-Irish, and not just Scots). So once colonization in the New World opened up, they pulled up stakes again and headed for the Colonies, and upon arrival, headed for the hills of Appalachia. Resulting in "Red Neck culture" in the Southern States in particular.

Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

You have to wonder why all the Scots left Scotland.


Now many of the Scots left Scotland because the major land owners were converting from small farms to sheep herding to make money off the wool boom, thus they evicted tenant farmers. Some also left due to food shortages.

Now the Scots-Irish is a slightly different group, they were Scots who moved to Ireland to work the land there. A few generations later a lot of them, along with regular Irish, left due to the famine and some later left due to the same change in land usage as was happening in Scotland and England with the growth of the wool and sheep industry.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

Now the Scots-Irish is a slightly different group, they were Scots who moved to Ireland to work the land there. A few generations later a lot of them, along with regular Irish, left due to the famine and some later left due to the same change in land usage as was happening in Scotland and England with the growth of the wool and sheep industry.


There were a LOT of Scots-Irish in the US Colonies even before the Revolutionary War, as some of them went for that whole "Religious Freedom in the Colonies" thing. Between being Protestant in the United Kingdom in general, and Protestant in Ireland in particular, they certainly had motive to seek friendlier places to set up shop. Some just stuck around much longer than others.

sejintenej

@Not_a_ID


but I s'pose it could be a contraction of "ya all".

Yes, "ya" is a variant (US) of "you" described by main-stream dictionaries.

It came from Scotland(or more specifically, the "Scotts-Irish" who were the original "red necks" because they wore red bandanas around their neck), and likely was initially "ye all" before becoming a contraction.

I don't know the origin but we still say 'yer' as an abomination of 'you are'. That is at least Devonian but probably elsewhere as well

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

I don't know the origin but we still say 'yer' as an abomination of 'you are'. That is at least Devonian but probably elsewhere as well


'Ya' and 'yer' as verbal slang variants of 'you' or 'your' are common in many English speaking countries, it comes from lazy speech in some cases, and from mixed accents in other cases.

Here in Australia it's common to say things like, "Hey John, ya best get that truck moved before you take ya break."

Zom
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Do you suppose there was a whiskey famine?

Sadly, there has never been any whiskey made in Scotland. Whisky on the other hand is abundant there, and would probably be the refuge of last resort :-)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Zom

Sadly, there has never been any whiskey made in Scotland.


really??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch_whisky

Replies:   ustourist
ustourist

@Ernest Bywater

If it is made in Scotland it is Whisky, not whiskey.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@ustourist

If it is made in Scotland it is Whisky, not whiskey.


so there's nothing of colour in the US, and they have no centre, then?

Replies:   Zom
Zom

@Ernest Bywater

so there's nothing of colour in the US, and they have no centre, then?

Correct. You won't find those things in the US. The US arbitrarily changed the spelling of many words, and are now borderline religious about it.

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej
Updated:

@Zom

re Whisky / Whiskey


Correct. You won't find those things in the US. The US arbitrarily changed the spelling of many words, and are now borderline religious about it.


I am not sure if it is copyright or trademark but it is illegal to use the word Whisky in respect of any drink made outside Scotland. Yes, I know the Japanese use the wrong spelling and Paraguay used to export 10 times as much whisky as they imported!

Zom wrote:

in Scotland. Whisky on the other hand is abundant there, and would probably be the refuge of last resort


Fighting talk there, Zom

Replies:   Zom
Zom

@sejintenej

Yes, I know the Japanese use the wrong spelling

As do the Canadians strangely ...

Fighting talk there, Zom

:-) Ah but what a refuge! Remaining too sozzled to be belligerent.

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