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Please.....STFU

toolman4243

I just want to thank all the asshats that just feel the need to abuse the writers on here just because there own lives are so pathetic.Why you all feel the need to write such negative and mean spirited feedback is beyond my understanding.
I'm sitting here writing this because i'm so pissed off that another of my favorite writers (JRyter) has decided to hang it up.All because a bunch of......feel the need to continually spew there negativity.
Everyone has a limited amount of time on this earth,that some would spend a good size chunk of that time writing stories for our ENJOYMENT is pretty dang special in my opinion.For the most part the writers and editors on here get nothing for their efforts but the feedback on their stories.Also for the most part they don't mind a LITTLE criticism,but not the hell and damnation type just because of a period,a comma or a misspelled word.
As JRyter said in what could be his last blog "If you got nothing positive to say then STFU"

Replies:   rvbuilder  Slutsinger
OldNYer
Updated:

The trolls win again. For the life of me I cannot understand why writers are so thin skinned. You all know that if you invite feedback you will invite trolls to flame you. If you are a new writer posting here then look to your scores for gratification and encouragement. If you need advice go to the forums for advise. If you need an editor ask for one and you will find help. But please, please do not search for a muse in the feedback. You are the author. You are the creator. You are the WRITER. We are only readers.

Look at Amazon feed back on any book that has more than a few hundred sales. My, my we see the same pattern there. We see a good book reviews by people who actually purchased the book from Amazon which is a relative new feature. These reviews were mostly genuine reviews but sprinkled even there you will find the flamers and all bets are off on reviews from people who have not actually purchased the book but nevertheless want to put in their two cents for a book the may not have even read.

Please don't give up on the vast majority of grateful readers.

edited to change "fine" to "find"

BD

Mister_Arioch

@OldNYer

Being discouraged by a multitude of readers saying "you suck" is not being thin-skinned. It's being human.

I completely understand JRyter's sentiments.

Replies:   Jim S  Crumbly Writer
OldNYer

If you put your work out there you must expect the trolls to respond. No matter how small a percentage of readers they are they will hide behind their anonymity and express their hate, envy, and small mindedness. Do you really think they would say this to your face? If you don't think so then take a deep breath, relax, consider the source, and move on, but please don't drop out.
You can't stop it so accept it as a fact of the medium and write on.

Replies:   Wheezer
Wheezer

@OldNYer

If you put your work out there you must expect the trolls to respond.

The Trolls respond because this site's scoring system allows them to respond and encourages them to act out. I suggested in another thread that SOL & it's authors might be better served by a simple 'Like' button. No 'Dislike' or other scoring choice - readers either indicate they liked the story or they can ignore it and move on. A quick look at the total number of likes should tell a reader what he needs to know. I think the current scoring system over-complicates things. It confuses authors and readers.
Few really understand how it works. The comments section can still be enabled or disabled as the author wishes. Authors enabling comments should expect the occasional Troll.

posidous

OldNYer - Were you bullied at school, have you see anyone bullied. Well, negative or degrading review using unkind words or action is BULLYING. I am 74 years old and just recently I had someone,at a store try to bully me. (I am confined to a wheelchair). Before I could react to her, a young boy, about 10 years or so, stepped up to her and said: " You know I have a person at my school who acts just like you. We all call her a Bully, are you her mother". I thanked the young boy, but you know the act of the woman still hurt and I have been around a long time. Praise is fleeing but harassing words stay for a longtime.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@posidous

Trouble is the bully never gets a record. But if the victim turns and takes that bully apart for all intents and purposes. The victim will wind up with a record that unless they are extremely lucky will follow them the rest of their life.

OldNYer

Posidous, I am sorry that you had to experience that. It takes a special person to verbally attack someone in a wheelchair. I hope they didn't feel good about themselves when they walked away but perhaps they just felt superior.

I have some suggestions that may cut down on the abuse:
Only premium members can send email to authors and only from their logged in account. Otherwise they can only vote. If they abuse they loose the privilege. Serious readers (paying) currently have no additional input, they need an enhanced voice.

Premium members would have expanded voting (check boxes from one through five) that might include plot, grammar, dialogue, POV, titillation, or whatever else the authors agree is desired. This might give authors insight into areas where they need to improve. Perhaps a text box for comments like:
"bestiality in chapter 4 doesn't improve the story" or "pedophilia is never sexy" or even "the sex keeps getting interrupted by the story"

One other suggestion is that the story must be complete before it can reviewed. (Not voted on but reviewed.) Moderators could easily do this now. Although some authors with never ending stories might suffer from lack of reviews. Perhaps this might be an incentive to actually write a complete story with a beginning, a middle, and an end. OMG!

BD

Ernest Bywater

@OldNYer

expanded voting (check boxes from one through five) that might include plot, grammar, dialogue, POV, titillation, or whatever else the authors agree is desired.


Had that for a while, didn't work out, so it got dropped for a simplified voting system.

Ernest Bywater

@OldNYer

One other suggestion is that the story must be complete before it can reviewed.


I'll second that idea.

Replies:   Not_a_ID  Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

@OldNYer

Only premium members can send email to authors and only from their logged in account.


I'm strongly against this idea, I get a heck of a lot of emails from people on fixed low incomes who can't afford a membership, but see the stories as the high point of their day. Heck, one now does editing for me to get a sneak preview at the next story.

Replies:   docholladay
Jim S

@Mister_Arioch

Sorry, but I don't. I don't want to sound uncaring but when an author endures some negative feedback here, warranted or unwarranted, it shouldn't result in them pulling into a shell. Outside of SOL in the big bad world, this happens as an every day occurrence. I know I endured it over the course of my career (since ended in retirement) though not as a writer.

One needs to pop the blisters that occur on the ego and develop calluses. My two cents FWIW.

Replies:   sejintenej
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

I'll second that idea.


I thought authors were able to turn scoring for their stories on or off pretty much at will?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

Only premium members can send email to authors and only from their logged in account.


I'm strongly against this idea, I get a heck of a lot of emails from people on fixed low incomes who can't afford a membership,


I agree with Ernest here. I am one of the users on a very low income from Social Security. Why should we be penalized because we have to count pennies to survive.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ernest Bywater

@Not_a_ID



I thought authors were able to turn scoring for their stories on or off pretty much at will?


yes they can, but the idea was about not allowing a story to be reviewed until after it's completed. That's a very different proposition.

sejintenej

@Jim S

Outside of SOL in the big bad world, this happens as an every day occurrence. I know I endured it over the course of my career (since ended in retirement) though not as a writer.
One needs to pop the blisters that occur on the ego and develop calluses. My two cents FWIW.

I have to disagree with you, Jim. It is easy to say/write that but to do it when you are a victim for a long period - even decades - just doesn't work. You get bitter and avoid dealing with people; how else do people become hermits?

Sorry, I wish I had a real answer though Lazlo's ten laws can help people understand and with understanding healing becomes possible

Replies:   Jim S
samuelmichaels

@OldNYer

One other suggestion is that the story must be complete before it can reviewed.


I don't quite see the motivation for this.

Replies:   richardshagrin
Jim S

@sejintenej

Sorry, I wish I had a real answer though Lazlo's ten laws can help people understand


Couldn't agree with you more.....

richardshagrin

@samuelmichaels

One possible motivation is to indicate to the author how he is doing. When you are happy with the story your score might be a relatively high number. When the story takes a zig or a zag in a direction you aren't happy with, reduce your score. I really thought about changing my 9 for Community two when the chapter about one of the heroines having a miscarriage was posted. I didn't change the score, but I thought about it.

Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

One possible motivation is to indicate to the author how he is doing.


For many authors they'd never know, because they don't track the votes that close, or even track them at all.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

You are, as usual, right. But it might make me feel better to make even a small protest.

Capt Zapp

@richardshagrin

I really thought about changing my 9 for Community two when the chapter about one of the heroines having a miscarriage was posted.


That scene also caused me some distress having been through it many times (My ex had 8 miscarriages and several other pregnancies with complications. We never did have a successful pregnancy). I feel their pain.

It did, however, bring things 'back to reality' by having something different happen to one of them. Up to this point, the women have basically done the same things with very little variation.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE their stories and am a faithful reader of the 'Smart Girls' Universe. I wouldn't miss reading it for anything.

Replies:   sejintenej
Crumbly Writer

@OldNYer

and you will fine help.

"I'm sorry, but that advice will cost you $15."

As far as Amazon's feedback is concerned, almost nothing will condemn a story faster than all glowing 5-star reviews, as readers typically interpret that as 'author generated' buzz, rather than honest opinions. Stories typically sell better if there are plenty of 5-star reviews, accompanied by a couple scathing 1-star slams (to prove that the work invokes varied opinions, instead of the authors friends and family all repeating what he told them to say).

Replies:   OldNYer
Crumbly Writer

@Mister_Arioch

Being discouraged by a multitude of readers saying "you suck" is not being thin-skinned. It's being human.

It's understandable, but authors have always needed thick skins to survive. Between the multiple rejections (by publishers), failure to appreciate technique (by editors), and nit-picking over minor flubs (by readers), few authors will survive unless they can dust themselves off after a flare up, shrug their shoulders and continue on to the next book.

Perseverance is the best revenge.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

@OldNYer

One other suggestion is that the story must be complete before it can reviewed.

@Ernest

I'll second that idea.

Only, that relegates the serial novel (50+ chapters and still unfolding) to the nether regions of SOL, while unfairly rewarding short stories.

Many unfinished stories can be excellent, and shouldn't be ignored simply because the author hasn't yet finished putting in the last word.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

I agree with Ernest here. I am one of the users on a very low income from Social Security. Why should we be penalized because we have to count pennies to survive.

Some of my best (most productive feedback) is from pensioners. (Thanks, all!)

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Only, that relegates the serial novel (50+ chapters and still unfolding) to the nether regions of SOL, while unfairly rewarding short stories.


I disagree. It doesn't relegate anything to the nether regions. What it does mean is the story has to be finished before a review is done. Personally, I can't see how you can do a valid review of a story before it's completed. Simply because the author may go off the rails at a point after the review is written.

I've over 100 published works that cover everything from short stories to sagas of over 270,000 words. The majority of them are novels of over 40,000 words each, 5 are over 100,000 words, and 5 are between 70,000 and 100,000 words.

I don't post a story until it's completed. Thus I don't mind when someone wants to review it. Even when the reviewer has said something I totally disagree with, mainly because they missed something in the story, I let it stand because it's their opinion of the story - something I feel they're entitled to have without me interfering with it.

There are many stories at SoL that don't have reviews. So putting in place a rule not to review a story until it's finished won't hurt them at all.

Edit to add: I just realised you may be thinking about the ability to read the story, which should be allowed, but a review of the story should be kept until after it's finished.

Edit to add a gloat factor - when the story the editors are working on right now is published that'll bring my published count up to over 3 million words.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
OldNYer
Updated:

Well I threw a bunch of "stuff" at the wall and not much stuck.

Let me return to who is the author and direction of the story. Well it certainly is not the readers or e-mailers (I hope). It is the writers creativity and skill that drives the story but even with input from readers it is still the author who accepts or rejects those suggestion. If the author needs validation or ideas set up a focus group to help guide the story. I'm sure there would be many volunteers if the request went out.

I really thought about changing my 9 for Community two when the chapter about one of the heroines having a miscarriage was posted.


Thank you for making my point about readers and authors and who controls the story. A note to Oyster50: As flighty as Dorable is :), you are the still the creator and driver of this story and I for one love all your work. I will read Community Too when it is finished, as is my custom. JC are you listening? Where is the end of the train?

Let's talk about the not reviewing until completed for a moment. I recently read a review from a person who admitted he had only read the first two chapters posted. He panned the story. I noted the score and read the whole thing and agreed with the eight plus rating. Obviously this review was not helpful. Now perhaps the first two chapters were edited or rewritten so that the review is not valid but this goes to my point.

On the premium members and troll e-mail. Somewhere somehow we need to limit access to logged in members with valid e-mail accounts. There should be some responsibility and accountability. Perhaps moderators would track complaints from authors about abusive email. (this might become a wack-a-mole project)

My last word on e-mail bullying (intimidation) - if you are intimidated it is because you let yourself feel intimidated. No email ever punched me in the face.

BD

Replies:   docholladay  Grant
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

It doesn't relegate anything to the nether regions. What it does mean is the story has to be finished before a review is done. Personally, I can't see how you can do a valid review of a story before it's completed. Simply because the author may go off the rails at a point after the review is written.

Sorry, I was thinking "voting" for unfinished stories. Since few stories ever get reviewed, and even fewer readers ever read reviews before checking out stories, I doubt limiting reviews would have ANY impact.

Reviews can regenerate interest in earlier, overlooked stories, but they rarely draw initial readers to a story.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I doubt limiting reviews would have ANY impact.


I can think of a few situation, but the most obvious is a review of the first half of a story that's good until the author gets fed up and throws it into the rubbish bin by going complete crazy in the second half. Which has happened a few times.

Another is where the story is good right up to a major scene where a significant squick factor is involved and not coded for until that chapter is posted. A review before then would be talking about a totally different story to what it's like after the unexpected squick factor comes in.

On that issue, I think major squick factors have

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
OldNYer
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


and you will fine help.

"I'm sorry, but that advice will cost you $15."


Och, guilty as charged. I will send the dollars to my favorite charity. (not me BTW) :)

BD

docholladay

@OldNYer

Somewhere somehow we need to limit access to logged in members with valid e-mail accounts.


The valid email accounts I can agree with. If a person can send feedback or private messages to a writer, the writer should be able to reply to them when desired or add the person to their personal email blacklist for blocking purposes. (that feature I believe all email programs has)

Grant

@OldNYer

if you are intimidated it is because you let yourself feel intimidated.

If someone is intimidated it's because they recognise a threat when they encounter one.
Of course different people interpret different things differently.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

I can think of a few situation, but the most obvious is a review of the first half of a story that's good until the author gets fed up and throws it into the rubbish bin by going complete crazy in the second half. Which has happened a few times.

I also doubt many reviewers would review an incomplete story. After all, they'd almost be required to re-review it periodically after the first review. For those reviewers who refuse to review the same author twice, that's an unreasonable request.

Replies:   Grant  Ernest Bywater
Grant

@Crumbly Writer

I also doubt many reviewers would review an incomplete story.

There have been many stories reviewed before they are completed.

After all, they'd almost be required to re-review it periodically after the first review. For those reviewers who refuse to review the same author twice, that's an unreasonable request.

So those reviewers should stick to reviewing only completed stories, nothing in progress unless they're prepared to re-visit the review.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I also doubt many reviewers would review an incomplete story. After all, they'd almost be required to re-review it periodically after the first review.


True, but here's some Yellow Line and Current Posting stories with reviews

Dman 3
Stone Inc.
Doc - has 2
Twice Lucky 3
Conductor
Jokes and Giggles
Mayhem in a Pill
Runaway Train
BJ Jones the Story of my Life
The Future of Miss Powers
Arlene and Jeff
Convergence
Flight of the Code Monkey
Hard Times
The Farmer's Daughter

With a review lodged before it was finished posting - just a few authors - not a comprehensive list. Ignoring those with a review posted on the same day or the day before the last chapter - could be a date stamp issue.
Defenceman
Tom's Adventures
Audition Notice
Hey Mon, I'm Home
faceoff, Book 2
Indian Fighters - White Death
A Well Lived Life Book 2 Stephie

I found all those in about ten minutes of a down and dirty quick search. Took longer to type them up than to find them.

richardshagrin
Updated:

I reviewed the Richard Jackson saga Ninth Grade by Banadin when only the first 25 chapters had been posted. I thought it was so good readers needed to know about it.

"This is my ten for May. Its not finished yet, hopefully its less than half done. I try to wake up early on Fridays so I can read the next chapter ASAP. Normally I only review complete stories but this one is so good I don't want anyone who checks out reviews to miss it."

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
sejintenej

@Capt Zapp

Capt Zapp wrote:
I really thought about changing my 9 for Community two when the chapter about one of the heroines having a miscarriage was posted.

richardshagrin replied

That scene also caused me some distress having been through it many times I feel their pain.

It did, however, bring things 'back to reality' by having something different happen to one of them. Up to this point, the women have basically done the same things with very little variation.


We also went through miscarriages. That said, they are a fact of life as are taxes and death. Therefore this content would not affect the score I give - only how it is dealt with (and I do allow the odd comma error, even spelling differences). I was slightly harder on that story - my choice.

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@sejintenej

You quoted in the wrong order. richardshagrin made the original comment.

I agree that miscarriages are a fact of life. I just meant they hit close to home for me. It did not make me change my score.

awnlee jawking

@Capt Zapp

It did not make me change my score.


Nobody could blame you if you changed your score. It represents how much you enjoyed your story. Distress isn't my idea of enjoyability.

AJ

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@awnlee jawking

It represents how much you enjoyed your story. Distress isn't my idea of enjoyability.


I am thoroughly enjoying the story, it's just that the situation brought back memories that are painful. If I vote down because of bad memories from relating to the characters in the story, there would be a lot more low scores from me. On the other hand, sharing an experience with the characters helps me to get into the story because I can relate to what they are going through.

sejintenej

@Capt Zapp

@Capt Zapp
You quoted in the wrong order. richardshagrin made the original comment.

Apologies to both of you

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@sejintenej

No harm, no foul. You spelled the name right. Almost nothing else would concern me. I particularly dislike the guys or girls who change the s in shagrin to a c.

Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

"This is my ten for May. Its not finished yet, hopefully its less than half done. I try to wake up early on Fridays so I can read the next chapter ASAP. Normally I only review complete stories but this one is so good I don't want anyone who checks out reviews to miss it."

Excellent. You do a wonderful job of explaining that it's not completed, and isn't likely to be any time soon, but aim to attract interest to the ongoing story. Since these make up such a large part of SOL, they deserve the recognition, as many of these 'ongoing serial' authors never write anything else (or rather, never quite finish off their first work).

rvbuilder

@toolman4243

As a technical writer (not a creative writer) for over 35 years, I have developed a thick skin. My material is generally for a limited audience, but I'm sure if it were out there for the general public I would be roundly flamed. The flaming is usually done by those without one iota of talent or a creative bone in their bodies. I have enjoyed JRyter's stories as I have many others. I will overlook grammatical and spelling errors, as well as many others in order to get the larger entertainment from the story. If I am not happy with the story or the writing, I'll just delete it...there are plenty of others. As many have mentioned, these folks are writing stories for OUR enjoyment and to perhaps fulfill an itch they might have to express themselves. Since this IS a sex site, I will say that the trolls can go fuck themselves.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@rvbuilder

The flaming is usually done by those without one iota of talent or a creative bone in their bodies. I have enjoyed JRyter's stories as I have many others.

As many have mentioned, these folks are writing stories for OUR enjoyment and to perhaps fulfill an itch they might have to express themselves. Since this IS a sex site, I will say that the trolls can go fuck themselves.

In general, most of these 1-bombers have a very specific objection: usually moral or political. However, the largest criticism most authors encounter isn't from trolls, rather it's from other overly pedantic authors (the type who worry about present vs. past tense, 1st, 3rd or limited point of views, or passive language).

Since authors spend SO MUCH time looking for minor nits, they're often unable to turn off the editing reflex, and will mark up whatever they read, whether desired or not. Most of us won't press send, but it's an ongoing concern.

Replies:   Dominions Son  REP
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Other than having some minor typos pointed out, the only criticism I've gotten is complaints about certain activities included (always with a request to change the story to remove). I've only gotten a couple of those, but they push a button for me and piss me off to no end.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Dominions Son

How about the requests for making stories longer? I don't often say anything about it, but I think it, when a good story ends. What did Dickens write, "please sir can I have some more?"

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

"please sir can I have some more?"


Kenneth or Roger?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@Crumbly Writer

they're often unable to turn off the editing reflex


Isn't that the truth. I frequently find myself pointing out typos on my menu to my waitress.

richardshagrin

Error correction becomes second nature. I was in a grocery store yesterday where 6 donuts were $2.49 and 12 were $4.99. I asked why it was a penny cheaper to buy two packages of six than one package of twelve. The bakery worker and the checkout clerk had no idea, and weren't interested.

Replies:   REP  docholladay  Dominions Son
REP

@richardshagrin

People usually by a larger quantity to get the price break. At one of the grocery stores I go to, a 1-lb block of medium cheddar was $2.85. A 2-lb block was $5.99 ($3.00 a lb).

docholladay

@richardshagrin

Those workers are not the ones doing the pricing. Its someone sitting in an office somewhere who never works the store's floor. Lower level employees can't really change prices except for maybe the store manager in certain cases where they can put some item on the Manager's Special list which usually lowers the price.

Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

I was in a grocery store yesterday where 6 donuts were $2.49 and 12 were $4.99. I asked why it was a penny cheaper to buy two packages of six than one package of twelve.


Because they can't charge fractions of a cent ($2.495 which is exactly half of $4.99) so all cent factions in prices are truncated. And they can't make the dozen $5.00 because some boob of psychologist or sociologist told everyone that people think $4.99 is a much better value than $5.00

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@Dominions Son

And they can't make the dozen $5.00 because some boob of psychologist or sociologist told everyone that people think $4.99 is a much better value than $5.00

I suspect the concept came in long before psychologists etc. came to the fore.
The story I heard was that by making it a penny/cent less the shop clerk was forced to use the till to get change and couldn't simply put the money in their own pocket.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

I suspect the concept came in long before psychologists etc. came to the fore.


It's known marketing ploy that's over a century old. People associate $4.99 with $4.00 more readily than the do $5.00 because the first number is a 4, not a 5. When you add in the modern marketing ploy of everything should end in $x.x9 then what should be $2.50 becomes $2.49, regardless of what else is in it.

BTW The business of using odd values has nothing to do with the change aspect because it was a common practice when only the shop owner worked the till - that's how old it is.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Speaking of psychological effect, try this experiment.

Gasoline prices in the U.S. are always (without exception!) posted with a nine-tenths cent "suffix"; i.e., "$2.67[9/10]" as as price, displayed on 3-story high billboard signs. [sorry--it's not possible to post the "superscript" 9 here].

So I say to the spouse as we drive by, "Hmmm... gas has gone up another nickel. It's up to $2.68 today."

"$2.67!" she snaps back.

"So 9/10ths of a cent is NOTHING?" I snap back.

And the fight is on. I grudgingly admit that if we buy EXACTLY ten gallons, we'll save ONE CENT with the $26.79 purchase, and not pay my claimed $2.68/gallon. But I DEFY anyone to stop a US service station pump on EXACTLY the penny. It can't hardly be done.

Millions and millions of American drivers are psychologically "conditioned" to believe that $2.67[9/10] is actually $2.67.

And they actually do believe that the end of year (in late April!) income tax "overcharge" refund is a "savings benefit" from the government!

Dominions Son

@graybyrd

asoline prices in the U.S. are always (without exception!) posted with a nine-tenths cent "suffix"; i.e., "$2.67[9/10]" as as price, displayed on 3-story high billboard signs. [sorry--it's not possible to post the "superscript" 9 here].


It's exactly the same reasoning behind $4.99 instead of $5.00, but when it started with gas, gas cost less then $0.25 and states were adding gas taxes in tenths of a cent. The gas stations then had the choice between raising prices a whole cent when that would be a significant % increase or eating the taxes.

So someone in the gas industry came up with the 9/10 cent thing, which as you have noticed, seems to be invisible to most people. So they raise the prices effectively a full cent, but it doesn't look like they did.

https://www.marketplace.org/2014/02/24/business/ive-always-wondered/why-do-gas-prices-end-910-cent

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@graybyrd

Millions and millions of American drivers are psychologically "conditioned" to believe that $2.67[9/10] is actually $2.67.


That's not unique to the US. But that's the whole concept behind the .09 cents. It's one reason I habitually round to the nearest 10 cents or dollar, depending on the pricing level.

Years ago the Aussie government did away with one and two cent coins, thus all purchases had to be rounded down or up, the amount of prices the suddenly ended in 9 cents greatly increased. One advantage I found was if you bought 3 such products you saved because they had to round down. However, if you paid by plastic they charged the exact amount.

Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son


It's exactly the same reasoning behind $4.99 instead of $5.00, but when it started with gas, gas cost less then $0.25 and states were adding gas taxes in tenths of a cent. The gas stations then had the choice between raising prices a whole cent when that would be a significant % increase or eating the taxes.


It's worse when the fuel is priced by the litre in tenths of a cent at 4.5 litres to the gallon.

Replies:   REP
Jim S

@graybyrd

And they actually do believe that the end of year (in late April!) income tax "overcharge" refund is a "savings benefit" from the government!


When it is nothing more than a loan of your money at 0% interest to the Federal government. When I realized that, I restructured my federal withholding in such a way that I always owe money when I file. Been doing that for years.

REP

@Ernest Bywater

It's worse when the fuel is


I don't see why it would be worse. It is exactly the same thing with the only difference being the unit of measure and price per unit.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@REP

It is exactly the same thing with the only difference being the unit of measure and price per unit.


because the unit is less than a quarter, the part cent fraction is four times as bad. It becomes close to a half a cent per gallon worse

Replies:   REP
REP

@Ernest Bywater

because the unit is less than a quarter, the part cent fraction is four times as bad. It becomes close to a half a cent per gallon worse


Poor logic EB. What you are defining is perception of the pricing impact. For example, if we here in the US were to change our pricing to cost per quart and the current price was $4.00 and 8/10ths the new unit price would be $1.00 and 2/10ths.

So why does the 2/10ths make the price per quart any worse than the price per gallon?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Slutsinger

@toolman4243

A couple of people have suggested focusing on scores not feedback. I'll say that for myself I've gotten a lot more encouragement from feedback than I have from scores. I tend to write things that are fairly far out the taboo axis. With one exception, there are more premium members who have put each of my stories in their library than total readers who have chosen to vote. Those notes from people who have had their lives touched by what I write are far more important to me than a score that seems to depend as much on who has found the strength to admit even anonymously that they've read my work as anything else. I totally get that. Before I started writing, I was very reluctant to vote on some of the more explicit stories. I was partially worried about leaving a database record (I know donwloading a story does that already) and... I don't know. Worried about liking what I liked.
It's hard. But all the mechanisms for authors to learn how their work does are valuable.

Ernest Bywater

@REP

So why does the 2/10ths make the price per quart any worse than the price per gallon?


Quite simple, whatever the price is per gallon when split into the lower quantity is going to end up with the lower quantity price being rounded up at the last digit, which will mean a higher total price. I saw it happen here when we went from price per gallon to price per litre. When the change happened the last place digits for the litre price all got rounded up such that if you bought a gallon it cost more than than the gallon price was half an hour earlier before they made the change. The smaller the unit size the more fractions they can have in the final equation.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

uite simple, whatever the price is per gallon when split into the lower quantity is going to end up with the lower quantity price being rounded up at the last digit


In the US, because gas is priced down to 9/10ths of a cent, standard practice is that only the final total is rounded up.

When dividing retail prices for smaller fixed quantities, Gallons of milk to quarts, the standard practice in the use is to truncate any amount less than $0.01.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son

In the US, because gas is priced down to 9/10ths of a cent, standard practice is that only the final total is rounded up.


In general, the practice is the same here, however, when they repriced after changing to litres the price was showing to the tenth of a gallon then the tenth of a litre, and the per litre price had the hundredths of a cent rounded up to the next tenth of a cent, thus the price went up a little, because 4.5 times the per litre price came out as a few cents higher than the gallon price it started at.

Cut the slices thinner and round the price up means more money, always has, and always will.

Replies:   REP
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

Kenneth or Roger?

Roger Dickens?

@richard Shagrin

How about the requests for making stories longer? I don't often say anything about it, but I think it, when a good story ends.

It's hard to add chapters to an existing story without screwing it up, but I especially like when you end the story with the death of the main character, and readers STILL write and request a sequel!

In my recent posting, Singularity, the deceased is still available, just transformed into an alien species only 10-light-years away, but still, it's hard to write an entire novel based on occasional messages send across a distance that far.

Still, it's a vote of confidence when readers want more. Would you rather have those requests, or one's that say "Could you remove, say, ten or twelve chapters?" :)

@REP

I frequently find myself pointing out typos on my menu to my waitress.

Yeah, as if she gives a damn!

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

Roger Dickens?


He wanted More, so i asked if he wanted Kenneth More or Roger More - both good UK actors in many films and shows.

Dominions Son
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


It's hard to add chapters to an existing story without screwing it up, but I especially like when you end the story with the death of the main character, and readers STILL write and request a sequel!


What, you don't know how to have a new set of characters pick up where the old ones left off?

Did the original MC have kids? Or was the MC a Darwin award candidate?

Maybe you don't want to do a sequel, (and you have no obligation to do one) but I would suggest that short of the heat death of the universe, there is always some kind of opening for a sequel.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@Ernest Bywater

Cut the slices thinner and round the price up means more money, always has, and always will.


It's the total price that gets rounded, not the unit price here in the US. If the unit price being charge is rounded up and the fractional price is advertised, that is consumer fraud.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
REP

@Crumbly Writer

Yeah, as if she gives a damn


Yeah, I know but I can't help myself. Its an overwhelming impulse to get the typo corrected. :)

Ernest Bywater

@REP


It's the total price that gets rounded, not the unit price here in the US.


both get rounded. The total price of the purchase gets rounded for the purchase, but when they calculate the per unit price it gets rounded to the nearest tenth of a cent (usually up) and that's what's set to be charged. If the calculations give the per unit price should be $1.29.51 it will be put in the system ad $1.29.6 so over charged 9 hundredths of a cent per unit. Not much on 10 gallons, but is a lot more on 45 litres.

Rambulator

Looks like Dual Writer just got one of these.

Replies:   Abs
Abs
Updated:

@Rambulator

That made me angry after reading the message he received. I think authors comments should be integrated into the blog section and moderated before passing them on.

Like the review system but private. Will need people or maybe some sort of automated filter to look at key words and flag them for review. This will allow authors to report such peoples accounts and have them blocked from further contact. A lot of work so maybe not worth the cost/time.

Replies:   G Younger
G Younger

@Abs

Laz has a post about this in the Author section.

Changes to SOL

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

What, you don't know how to have a new set of characters pick up where the old ones left off?

Did the original MC have kids? Or was the MC a Darwin award candidate?

Technically, although the main character dies at the end, he's still around (in another life form, but only accessible 10 light years away). The issue isn't that I couldn't continue the story, but that it would be difficult to write an entire book on the subject. Mostly what the readers were requesting were more chapters explaining what happened to those who followed in his footsteps (i.e. who followed him on the following NASA missions who may follow him).

While interesting, I didn't think I could build an entire book on that limited issue. :(

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