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Proper tags for trans-gender characters?

The Slim Rhino

Is there a way to introduce proper trans-gender tags, like trans-women and trans-men. I have two trans-gender friends, who tell me that 'shemale' is regarded a very derrogatory term. After all we have 'black women' as a tag. Nobody in his right mind would slap a 'nigger' tag on his or her story and for a good reason.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@The Slim Rhino

Submit the request at http://storiesonline.net/d/s6/bug-report-and-feature-requests and our host may consider it.

Ernest Bywater

the code sheet (below) has Transgender as well as Shemale:

http://storiesonline.net/docs/code_faq.php

TransGender - Gender crossing, mostly men turning into women

Shemale - Trans women with male genitalia and augmented female breasts from breast augmentation and/or use of hormones

I've always taken Shemale to refer to people who stop the transgender change at that point to stay that way, as against those who quickly transition through it without promoting it.

Replies:   The Slim Rhino
The Slim Rhino

@Ernest Bywater

Shemale is a term coined by the porn industry and considered the equivalent of terms like 'nigger', 'kraut' or 'slope' by most trans-women.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@The Slim Rhino

Shemale is a term coined by the porn industry and considered the equivalent of terms like 'nigger', 'kraut' or 'slope' by most trans-women.


I understand that, but I've run into people who rejoice in calling themselves shemales and have been that way for many years because they have no intention of going the full transgender route. To these people it isn't an abusive word at all, but a statement of how they are.

I've also known people who've transgendered and they were in the half and half stage a very short time, but didn't advertise the fact while they were. Which is why I see the two terms as relating to two different mental attitudes about the same physical situation. And this doesn't even begin to cover the hermaphrodite group with the hardware of both genders from birth.

I suspect it's this two different viewpoints is why there are the two codes at SoL.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

Ernest has a point, though I doubt the trans community with agree with it. Most of the people frequenting and supporting drag clubs (which most people would think would slowly disappear, rather than growing) fit into this category. They initially work in the clubs in an effort to earn money for their transitions, but then decide they like the community and the gay men who support it (I've always had issues with gays who favor these women, as it appears like they're in denial about their sexuality, making love to women with dicks rather than recognizing they're attracted to guys).

As such, I'd consider the 'shemale' community as a subset of the trans community, who are, more or less, in open conflict with the greater community. The one side is trying to remain under the radar, gaining acceptance by the wider community, while the other is trying to promote how extreme they are, garnering anger and freakish curiosity by the straight community. It's much like the blacks who insisted on being called "Negros" years ago as the others in their community argued they needed to change the language of the race-relation discussions.

Note: All of the above are my personal observations, and aren't based on any real experience in the community, just suppositions by an interested and uninformed outsider.

P.S. We also used to have several trans writers here at SOL, but I haven't seen them for some time. From what I've gathered, they've done like the gays have, drifted to more welcoming sites, or publishing independently rather than trying to gain acceptance by sites not dedicated to them.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Crumbly Writer

Ernest has a point, though I doubt the trans community with agree with it. Most of the people frequenting and supporting drag clubs (which most people would think would slowly disappear, rather than growing) fit into this category. They initially work in the clubs in an effort to earn money for their transitions, but then decide they like the community and the gay men who support it (I've always had issues with gays who favor these women, as it appears like they're in denial about their sexuality, making love to women with dicks rather than recognizing they're attracted to guys).

As such, I'd consider the 'shemale' community as a subset of the trans community, who are, more or less, in open conflict with the greater community. The one side is trying to remain under the radar, gaining acceptance by the wider community, while the other is trying to promote how extreme they are, garnering anger and freakish curiosity by the straight community.


I do so love when groups who have boldly stated and loudly advertised mission statements about increasing acceptance of alternative lifestyles (namely: the ones they live) start telling members of other alternative lifestyles that their lifestyle choice "isn't valid."

But to get back on track:
Then there also is "futanari" to further muddy the waters. Although even the Japanese don't seem to be fully standardized on what they want to define one as.

I would generally tend to suspect the "shemales" are more of a thing for the bisexual/bicurious crowd in particular as it gets them a bit of both in one go. So I guess that kind of fits with your comments about many gay men supporting it(they're probably leaning towards bisexual on the Kinsey Scale, rather than gay).

Although this also ignores the BDSM aspects, or noncon/entrapment aspect in porn and erotic lit. Where a shemale snags a "manly man" who probably is a textbook homophobe and proceeds to wtf sexually dominate them, possibly doing other things to them along the way and this completely changes their outlook on life.

Lord knows it pops up in both hentai and English fiction often enough if you're looking in the right(wrong) places. It doesn't help for me that they often come up on tags that I'm sometimes looking for in relation to certain types of genderbenders. Actually, they (entrapment by shemales stories) tend to be the 2nd easiest ones to find in that particular niche(only one easier is the hentai futanari, as it usually, but not always, denotes a female that attains a penis-like appendage rather than an effeminate guy who gets breasts, with their favored target usually being other women) and leaves me confused as to who the shemale entrapment market is comprised of. Angry gay men? Rabid Yaoi fangirls who've taken a turn for stranger things? I'm starting to lean towards the answer not being something I want to discover, as the only groups that make sense to me are bisexual men and angry gays.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Not_a_ID

Then there also is "futanari" to further muddy the waters.


My understand of 'futanari' is it's the same as:

Hermaphrodite - Person having both male and female genitalia.

Which is a SoL code tag, and thus covered already.

Not sure how you'd go with one of those stories where they change gender if hot with water, hot makes them change one way and cold the other. It sure sounds weird when you hear people talking about the stories.

Replies:   richardshagrin  Not_a_ID
richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

Science Fiction has always had a Weird, Amazing, and Astounding element. And those were just the magazines.

Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

My understand of 'futanari' is it's the same as:

Hermaphrodite - Person having both male and female genitalia.


As I said, they don't exactly have a "standard" for what is, or is not, "futa(nari)."

By far the most common form I've encountered is girls who obtain either a full on penis, or a super enlarged clittoris they use as a penis. (With their usual partner choice being other women or fellow futanari. Which I guess generally plays as an extension of "lesbian sex (toy) play" for many men)

If they actually have a penis, then hermaphrodite covers them(genitals of both genders). But if it is a clit that happens to be larger than the penis on most men.... That gets tricky. Then of course you get the gender alteration scenarios where you do get the (turned) hermaphroditic male running around as a futanari.

But going back to the "shemale" (presumably someone born male, with a feminine appearance, but "all male in the plumbing") the lines get weird as to when a shemale would cease to be one, or even if they ever were one in the first place.

I would agree there have been, currently are, and will continue to be men who transition to being some degree of physical approximation of being female for whom shemale is an extreme misnomer for them, regardless of what stage they're in. (The persons they date may have differing views on the matter however)

Others? Not so much, in particular the ones that revel in being "in between" and denying such types exist is to deny reality.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Not_a_ID

Not to step in here to disagree with anyone, but at least in the Philippines, I have read, people with both breasts and penis are called lady-boys.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Not to step in here to disagree with anyone, but at least in the Philippines, I have read, people with both breasts and penis are called lady-boys.

That's another pejorative term you wouldn't want to use within the transgenered community.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Crumbly Writer

That's another pejorative term you wouldn't want to use within the transgenered community.


Unless of course, they're one of the rare members of that community that have opted to "own" the term. Just be aware, they're the exception, not the rule.

transdelion

We transfolk are still here at SOL.

Useful to know, 50% of transpeople were born female and 50% were born male. Male to female transpeople are just more physically obvious and thus are noticed more often. Plus, male to female transwomen are far more often the subject of straight male fantasy (and rarely gay male fantasy), making them stand out more at a sex story site catering mostly to a heterosexual crowd (sorry, SOL, I love you anyway). Quite often, people who identify as shemales enjoy, or are trapped into, depending upon straight male admirers for their financial survival.

I am quite comfortable with terms like f2m and m2f (female to male, and male to female), but even I am out of date with my usage. I don't care what terminology is used by transpeople today, I am trans and can use any language I like to talk about myself. The whole point of it all is self identity. What does any trans person want you to call them? Please use their term.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@transdelion

What does any trans person want you to call them? Please use their term.

That's good advice when dealing with people face to face, but isn't helpful when you're conversing on forums, or writing stories which a wide variety of people may be reading. In those instances, you need a single term that applies equally to everyone, and which everyone will understand without offending or dumping on any single party.

Though, it points out another issue; that it's better, in fiction at least, to deal with specifics rather than the general. If you create a trans character, have them dictate how they should be addressed and why, rather than making overly broad generalization about ALL trans people. That creates a more sympathetic and relatable character (who's not lecturing people), and who readers won't take offense at (since s/he's only speaking for themselves).

transdelion

That would work. That's a really great idea.

The trans community turns out to have far more members than anyone thought now that we have started to emerge into the public. It is now estimated one out of a 1000 babies are born gender variant. We're spread out amongst all political leanings and cultures and we don't agree on much except that our bodies at birth didn't align with the gender in our brains. We're struggling with these language issues ourselves.

The 519 is a glbt organization in Toronto. They published a media guide earlier this year which can be found at http://www.the519.org/news/media-reference-guide-discussing-trans-and-gender-diverse-people, then click on the link halfway down the page "download media reference guide." It has all the latest thinking of the most politically active transpeople, but I don't agree with or follow all of it. I transitioned A LONG TIME ago, and thinking was different then. For instance, the term f2m (ftm in the media guide) is now considered verboten, but I use it for myself because I feel it honors my past and the extremely hard struggle I had then to get to where I am now. On the other hand, if you follow the guideline, no one can fault you for failing to make your best good faith effort.

The only "bad" thing you could do that every transperson agrees is "bad," is to use their old pronoun to refer to them.

Translation clue if you read the guide: cisgendered means person whose brain gender matched their genitalia at birth, meaning, a non-trans person. Shrug - I don't use the term.

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