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Who is Taylor Swift?

awnlee jawking

For the story I'm currently working on, implicitly set in the UK, my muse requires me to name-drop three female celebrities as representing the onanistic fantasy objects of a teenage boy. The plot requires that one is local (ie UK-based) and the other two are very much non-local.

Bearing readability in mind, the celebrities should be world-renowned and expected to have a long shelf-life. 'Who is Taylor Swift?' is the sort of question I don't want readers to be asking in 5 or 10 years time, and also gives away one of the choices I'm considering.

Suggestions?

AJ

Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

Taylor Swift is one of the top female country music singers in the US.

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Swift

Swift has received many awards and honors, including 10 Grammy Awards,[297] 19 American Music Awards,[298] 23 Billboard Music Awards, Country Music Association Awards, 8 Academy of Country Music Awards,[299] one Brit Award[141] and one Emmy.[300] As a songwriter, she has been honored by the Nashville Songwriters Association[45][301] and the Songwriters Hall of Fame.[302]


I don't think Taylor Swift is likely to be forgotten anytime soon.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
ustourist

@awnlee jawking

Depending on the culture of the youth concerned, you could even consider throwing in an older celebrity who had sex appeal or an unconventional appearance. Obviously not as mature as Joan Collins or Kate Moss, but Amy Whitehouse probably has a long shelf life now she is dead, or one of the vacuous ones like Cheryl Cole or Jordan. Both those have the ability to do something stupid enough to increase international scorn/recognition.
Outside the UK that probably includes Paltrow, who seems adept at self humiliation, or Chelsea Clinton who has the name recognition, but I don't know if either would ever be anyone's onanistic fantasy.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

On top of my earlier comments, she's only 26. She will still be around and will probably still be quite popular in 10 years.

Crumbly Writer

If you want the story to last a while, try using a fictional 'star', who appears with two 'older stars' (Taylor Swift possibly being one of them). That way, they'll recognize that the two stars aren't currently big hits but will likely recognize them, while the fictional character is timeless.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Bondi Beach
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


three female celebrities as representing the onanistic fantasy objects of a teenage boy.


Do they need to be singers? If not, I'm pretty sure Jennifer Lawrence will be around for a while. Also perhaps Shailene Woodley.

EDIT: Since said onanistic creatures focus on the visual, put aside your scruples and think about who has had her cell phone pics leaked. Miss Lawrence has some pretty strong views about that, but the images are already out there.

On the other hand, if you want an instant erection-reducer, Miley Cyrus might do.

bb

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Argon

@awnlee jawking

representing the onanistic fantasy objects of a teenage boy


In this time and age, you should consider Gina Gerson, Riley Reid and Sasha Grey :o)
Mind that, at least in my experience, teenage boys are rarely fans of female singers. Movie stars of the arm candy or dark heroine variety may be better choices, but ultimately, with free internet available, a teenager may obsess with adult performers. Downside: their half life is about five years at the most.
On the other hand, your readers here are hardly teenagers. You could name Traci Lords and have better name recognition than with Taylor Swift.

Daydreamz

Taylor Momsen is my personal onanistic fantasy ATM. I'm expecting her to be good for a while :)

Ernest Bywater

@Dominions Son


I don't think Taylor Swift is likely to be forgotten anytime soon.


Maybe not by those who've heard of her, but this is the first time I've heard of her, and I like most country music, but haven't heard any of the newest stuff because most of what was coming out a decade ago wasn't country music.

shinerdrinker

@Bondi Beach

Just saw the movie "Snowden." Shailene Woodley portrayed his girlfriend in the movie. At the very end they actually show pictures of Snowden and his real life girlfriend who is actually living with him in Russia. I watched it with my father and he actually said, "Why couldn't they get her to act ion the movie? The real life girl was much better lookin'.

I had to agree. Just wanted to point that out cause it came to my brain after putting away my writing for the night.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

Jay Cantrell chose that route with 'Liz Larimer'. It certainly might extend the shelf-life of the story but it doesn't bring instant recognition to the reader of what the star looks like and why the boy would find her attractive.

I'm giving the main female characters minimal descriptions: readers can use their own imaginations to make up the rest. So it's probably more consistent to use a real star, no description needed (except for Ernest!), than to have to dream up a convincing set of attributes such as hair and eye colour, bra size and number of hit singles.

The one thing I am convinced of is that there's no absolutely right approach.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking

@ustourist

Joan Collins or Kate Moss


Heh, I was tempted to make a very snarky comment about Joan Collins, but that would have been extremely ungrateful towards someone who weht to the trouble of reading and answering my question. Who is Kate Moss, is she related to Lottie Moss? :)

For the Brit star, after much deliberation I've pencilled in Emma Watson. I think she's a global name and likely to have a much longer shelf-life than Cocaine Cara etc.

AJ

Replies:   ustourist  sejintenej
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

I think that works both ways. Most of the world would have problems naming an Australian female star with global appeal, and little Kylie is getting long in the tooth now.

Have you heard of Emma Watson?

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Bondi Beach

Jennifer Lawrence Shailene Woodley Miley Cyrus


Good suggestions. Personally I think of Jennifer and Shailene as girl-next-door types rather than sex objects. Miley I find extremely unattractive. I think Jennifer is the pick of that bunch because she's extended her acting range, prolonging her shelf-life.

What do you think of Vanessa Hudgens? How long do you thing people will remember HSM?

AJ

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Ernest Bywater

@awnlee jawking


Have you heard of Emma Watson?


Yes, also Samatha Fox - not sure how many people remember Sam, been a while since I heard anything about her.

I think Elle Macpherson is still the best known Aussie female recognised as an Aussie.

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Have you heard of Emma Watson?


Yes, and on the sexual fantasy side, she's enough into yoga to have gone into exclusive retreats for further study in the past. So she's certainly flexible.

Her feminist stuff gives pause, but she seems to be of the "new wave" mindset regarding female sexuality. It just happens that she's also business minded enough(and presumably rich enough) that she knows that her best path to follow is in playing the tease for now, and doesn't need money badly enough to be lured into going further. Her brand as Hermione Granger helps considerably in that respect, as annoying as other aspects of that may be for her, and her fellow actors from the HP movies.

ustourist

@awnlee jawking

I had to look up Lottie Moss. I had no idea Kate had a little sister in the same business - hopefully minus the coke :)

Part of the problem is that few females have a shelf life of more than a few years nowadays. People like Cilla, Twiggy and Barbara Windsor had longevity in their careers, but it is difficult to think of many females (from any continent) who could be visually brought to mind after ten years.
Maybe asking in a forum of old farts is looking under the wrong rock, as too many subjects of modern fan attention may pass us by.
I would agree that Emma Watson will probably have a longer shelf life than most, but have a feeling it may be declining already. There isn't much choice though.....one of Fergie's daughters? (for the visually impaired from too much onanism).

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

Does the famous female have to have a specific career, a specific age group, and does she have to be real well known now in 2016?

I ask, because there are a lot of female actresses out there who are still well known despite a long career or having retired.

edit to add: Actresses like Judi Dench or Naomi Harris of Maggie Smith

further edit to add: Bonnie Wright - I remember the role she played and her name is Bonnie, but had to find the family name.

ustourist

@Ernest Bywater

Assuming you mean Sam Fox the model/singer, her long term civil partner Myra Stratton died last year and she seems to have slipped off the radar since then.

I think the best known Australian female may be Dame Edna. :)

Not_a_ID

@ustourist

I would agree that Emma Watson will probably have a longer shelf life than most, but have a feeling it may be declining already. There isn't much choice though.....one of Fergie's daughters? (for the visually impaired from too much onanism).

E.W. is getting to the point where she probably does need to get linked with a "major hit" movie if she wants to maintain active "A" list status, instead of a trivia item. Being tied to an epic flop(Noah), and going largely "Indy" beyond that doesn't help make headlines.

But at the same time, the Potter movies made her and her co-stars very rich, and it's still making money for them, just not as much. So she can financially afford to be picky and go for the "artsy" option rather than the commercial one.

Ernest Bywater

you can run down this list looking for a name you know with the appropriate year of birth to suit your character:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_actors_and_actresses

Not_a_ID
Updated:

I thought Adele was older than that. That would give a three year sweep. Adele(1988), Swift(1989), Watson(1990).

Emilia Clark aka Daenerys Targaryen in Game of Thrones was born in London, England during 1987 according to Mr. Skin.

Nearly all of Mr. Skin's current top 45 are born prior to 1985. (Emma Watson returned to it recently somehow)

Edit to add: Emily Ratajkowski seems to be another oddity. Born in London during 1991, she's considered Polish rather than British. (Conversely, Emma Watson was born in Paris, France and is considered British rather than French) Emily might pull a Cindy Crawford (or Pamela Anderson) and greatly exceed the typical supermodel shelf-life, but only time will tell.

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

Elle Macpherson


I think she's a bit too old for a teenager these days, although she still looks good (IMO).

I've been wracking my brain to recall the name of a certain Aussie actress. I remember a review - looks pretty but can't act. Then her name suddenly came to me - Cate Blanchett. I wonder if the reviewer has changed their opinion.

My personal favourite is Poppy Montgomery, but then I'm a sucker for freckles. Sadly I don't think she's famous enough for my story.

AJ

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@awnlee jawking

looks pretty but can't act. Then her name suddenly came to me - Cate Blanchett

Can't act? ... CAN'T ACT ??? ... Are you mad?
She has been nominated for Academy Awards seven times. The only living actress with more is Meryl Streep.
BTW she won twice, and the only living actress with more is Meryl Streep.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Ross at Play

Yes, I am mad. But I wasn't the reviewer who said she couldn't act. :)

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Bondi Beach

@shinerdrinker

The real life girl was much better lookin'.

I had to agree. Just wanted to point that out cause it came to my brain after putting away my writing for the night.


Shailene is an unconventional beauty, which makes her more attractive, but we are totally talking personal taste here, no question.

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Bondi Beach

@awnlee jawking

What do you think of Vanessa Hudgens? How long do you thing people will remember HSM?


Vanessa Hudgens, strictly minor league. Who is HSM?

We've got a long list of possibles here, but if we're talking "onanistic" we're presumably looking for inspiration. Emma Watson is cute as a bug's ear, but until we see more of her or she takes on a role that sparks one's onanistic interest, I don't think she's a strong candidate.

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Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Yes, I am mad. But I wasn't the reviewer who said she couldn't act. :)

At you mad at your hatter, or at the reviewer?

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

I'm giving the main female characters minimal descriptions: readers can use their own imaginations to make up the rest. So it's probably more consistent to use a real star, no description needed (except for Ernest!), than to have to dream up a convincing set of attributes such as hair and eye colour, bra size and number of hit singles.

Easy solution (to using an 'easily recognized' fictional star), simply specify it's so-and-so's daughter (conceived late in her career), who's the 'spitting image' of her mother. That way you've got the instant recognition, yet you can model the character any way you want (so she'll be timeless).

sejintenej

@awnlee jawking

For the Brit star, after much deliberation I've pencilled in Emma Watson.

Just be aware that she appears in her real-life role in one of the Defenceman series

My suggestion would be to Google possible names and see what he comes up with.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@sejintenej

Just be aware that she appears in her real-life role in one of the Defenceman series

The author appeared to have a bit of a thing for Emma Watson, and really, really, really didn't like Taylor Swift at all.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Grant

Taylor Swift actually creeps me out for some reason.

Miss Watson is a more complicated creature, but her "bubble" doesn't do her any favors on many fronts. Not that any significant celebrity doesn't have bubble issues, most do.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

Last night I deliberately listened to Taylor Swift, a video of a single during a BBC4 prog named 'Queens of Country'. To be honest, she's probably best left to tweenies.

One of the other 'queens' was a surprise - Olivia Newton John. She was pretty good, although her American accent wavered at the end.

My favourite was Linda Ronstadt - cracking singer, cracking song.

Overall, I don't think my brush with country left me too scarred ;)

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Not_a_ID

In other words, Emma Watson has a bubble but... :)

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

In other words, Emma Watson has a bubble but... :)


Not the "bubble" I was talking about. IIRC, she has some decent curves, but not much of a butt. :)

I speaking more of the having bodyguards and other assorted people on payroll to attend to other various needs. AKA the personal retinue that is never very far way... And very likely to be very agreeable with anything they might say, suggest, or do. After all, they're getting paid for that. The problem is that celebrities often lose sight of that, and so do their retainers from time to time, as they spend so much time in that same "bubble."

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Not_a_ID

Thanks for the explanation of bubble.

Allegedly Emma Watson was bookies' favourite for Rear of the Year 2012. She didn't win, but it shows that some men admire that part of her anatomy.

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

A quick refresher at Mr. Skin, and she does have a (noticeable) butt, so it isn't that she doesn't have one. It just isn't one for Sir Mixalot or Meghan Trainer to be singing about.

bilp_bolp

@awnlee jawking

Have you heard of Emma Watson?


Cold Creek has many appearances of Emma Watson in his "Defenceman" stories.
TheCaddy uses Hilary Duff in the final part of his "A Golfer's Dream" stories.

For me -as a reader- there can be problems when authors make real people behave in ways I don't want to be a witness off. Or have them do things I don't think they would do.

Fictional characters in a story can do whatever they want … real people make me feel uncomfortable in some parts of these stories.

Cold Creek also has top management of Calvin Klein and the New York Islanders behave in really troubling ways … do I want to connect a real company or ice hockey team to that ?

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@bilp_bolp

Cold Creek has many appearances of Emma Watson in his "Defenceman" stories.
TheCaddy uses Hilary Duff in the final part of his "A Golfer's Dream" stories.


I remember reading a story that had appearances by the Lone Ranger and Tonto as well as characters from other old TV shows like F-Troop. Wish I could remember the title.

Replies:   sharkjcw  Ernest Bywater
sharkjcw

@Capt Zapp

MattHHelm http://storiesonline.net/s/74853/somewhere-in-time-pocket-watch

Ernest Bywater

@Capt Zapp

I remember reading a story that had appearances by the Lone Ranger and Tonto as well as characters from other old TV shows like F-Troop. Wish I could remember the title.


Somewhere in Time - A trip to Waco.

http://storiesonline.net/s/66239:i

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Ernest Bywater

Awesome. Thank you

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Capt Zapp

He appears in both stories. Also Paladin appears in the "Trip to Waco" story. Matt has managed to incorporate a number of historical and fictional characters. Among them Amelia Earhart and Matt Dillon (Gunsmoke).

shinerdrinker
Updated:

So, do people here think it best to go ahead and use celebrities in a story or make up celebrities and have them be barely copies of real life celebrities?

Personally I think it is a push. In my story "Mayhem in a Pill" I have already warned readers thaat I would be using celebrities in the story. Not quite yet but in the future. I have them ready in the outline for the characters to meet celebs and interact with them. This was something I had planned on from the beginning but the more I write, I find myself worrying if I should just use the easily recognizable characteristics of a common celebrity and then use a new name. It sounds like a lot of work but then again I read Cold Creek stories and he uses celebrities often.

Makes it easier to understand their possible reactions and also makes them a thoroughly fleshed out character already. Because of my propensity toward laziness, I find myself leaning toward just using regular celebrities as named and let it be that way.

Again, what do you people think? And please try to remember I am a first time writer and thus I am very fragile. (Sarcasm font please.)

Ernest Bywater

@shinerdrinker

So, do people here think it best to go ahead and use celebrities in a story or make up celebrities and have them be barely copies of real life celebrities?


The few times I use a real life person in a story, and also name them, I strongly limit their actions in the story to just what they've done in real life. If I need someone with celebrity status I'll make one up and use them. This keeps me from being involved with any litigation while also allowing me to have an open field about the active characters.

About the most you can safely do is to say something along the lines of - "He/she reminds me of 'x' in their behaviour / looks / attitude."

awnlee jawking

@shinerdrinker

So, do people here think it best to go ahead and use celebrities in a story or make up celebrities and have them be barely copies of real life celebrities?


I've opted for real celebrities, but they don't interact with the main characters. Cold Creek's usage of 'real' celebrities is less than ideal, especially since their fictional personas are substantially different from real life, and that's a distraction from what is otherwise a very good story.

Just musing, but if your celebrities are going to impact your story in a significant way, you could take real celebrities and make easily-recognisable plays on their names.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Not_a_ID

@shinerdrinker

So, do people here think it best to go ahead and use celebrities in a story or make up celebrities and have them be barely copies of real life celebrities?


Depends, for me, it is a "fourth wall" thing so introducing them will likely break the immersion. That said, if it is a "wish fulfillment" type story then go ahead(as the nature of the story tends to create 4th wall issues anyhow). Not-so historical fiction can go different ways, depending on who is being invoked, and how they're used. Depending on your audience is, you can either get away with more, or less.

Big time history buffs, or fans of that person will let you get away with less than someone who is only passingly familiar with them. Of course that holds for celebrities from more recent times as well.

But going back to wish fulfillment, that could run from genies to mind control to robots or going the Star Trek Holodeck route. The celebrity's likeness is used, but nothing else necessarily is depending on the "rules" of the setting.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@shinerdrinker

So, do people here think it best to go ahead and use celebrities in a story or make up celebrities and have them be barely copies of real life celebrities?

I used Madonna (as an aging pop star who takes someone under their wing) in an unreleased story. The key, as has been mentioned, is to keep true to the character (i.e. don't make them into slut-bunnies simply because it's fun imagining, because most readers will find the situation out of character). As long as the character fits the actual person, readers are more likely to accept it. However, then you run into issues with the celebrity objecting to your portrayal--which is another reason to keep their portrayal as realistic as you can.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Just musing, but if your celebrities are going to impact your story in a significant way, you could take real celebrities and make easily-recognizable plays on their names.

Except such 'changes' won't reduce your likelihood of being sued, and only encourages you to write insulting things about the celebrity would would trigger a suit.

For a porn piece, you can generally get away with it, as long as you're willing to pull the story if requested. If you make any money off the work, then prepare to pay damages.

Crumbly Writer

@Not_a_ID

But going back to wish fulfillment, that could run from genies to mind control to robots or going the Star Trek Holodeck route.

Just be wary of the Robot's Legal Guild! They've cornered the market in legalese, and can tie you up in knots in the courts. Genies are much less likely to sue! :)

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Just be wary of the Robot's Legal Guild! They've cornered the market in legalese, and can tie you up in knots in the courts. Genies are much less likely to sue! :


I just remember that in the Authorized DS9 books, and to a lesser extent the series itself. It was strongly insinuated that the Holodecks at Quarks were often used for less than reputable uses... And since it gets detailed scans of everyone who uses it. Well, let's just say he was explicitly warned about being careful how that information got used. And reminded, frequently.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Except such 'changes' won't reduce your likelihood of being sued, and only encourages you to write insulting things about the celebrity would would trigger a suit.


And there is the advantage of using dead celebrities. They can't sue you.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Dominions Son

And there is the advantage of using dead celebrities. They can't sue you.

Watchout for some of them & their estates. Bigger business now they're dead, than when they were alive.

Dominions Son

@Grant

Watchout for some of them & their estates. Bigger business now they're dead, than when they were alive.


I don't minimize the degree to which the process itself can be punishing, but it is exceedingly rare for an estate to win a defamation case that was not started by the defamed celebrity while still alive.

awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

Except such 'changes' won't reduce your likelihood of being sued, and only encourages you to write insulting things about the celebrity would would trigger a suit.


Are there any examples of that happening?

AJ

Not_a_ID

Only ones I'm aware of off-hand were suits initiated while they were still alive. (or recently dead--as in months, not years) But it looks like in most states it auto-kills the suit if the person being defamed is dead, or dies during trial.

Considering the entire point of libel/slander/defamation laws is to protect the ability of a person to earn a living while alive, that is obviously going to be less of a concern for them once dead, since they won't see any of it personally.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Not_a_ID

the entire point of libel/slander/defamation laws is to protect the ability of a person to earn a living while alive,


Don't forget that once they are dead, their heirs make money off of their estate and defaming the dead person affects their earnings.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

Don't forget that once they are dead, their heirs make money off of their estate and defaming the dead person affects their earnings.


Yes but standing to sue for defamation is personal and non transferable. E

states of major celebrities have occasionally tried to sue over defamation of the deceased. Those suits are almost always dismissed for lack of standing.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

states of major celebrities have occasionally tried to sue over defamation of the deceased. Those suits are almost always dismissed for lack of standing.


Which isn't to mention it is hard to get the dead to turn up and testify in court that whatever is alleged to have happened did NOT happen.

Crumbly Writer

@Grant

Bigger business now they're dead, than when they were alive.

That's cause the celebrities can't say "Shut the fuck up, Junior!"

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