Chapter 46

When Simon joined Nick’s Threnody Ferrari-Stone taskforce, he hadn’t considered at the time that it would mean he sometimes got priority access to Nick himself. But while he wouldn’t admit it under pain of torture, he was really quite pleased to find himself riding down into Italy’s interior in the limo with Nick, Pilar, Pilar’s odd cousin Inez, and Tanvi while Dennis was relegated to riding with Lev, Arwen, Max and Romanitza in the other car.

“Why isn’t Aria Giovanni coming with us today? I thought the whole point of hiring her was that she spoke Italian.” Simon asked as soon as the cars were moving.

“I gave Rosangela an assignment she could do best in Milan.” said Nick.

“Romanitza was raised speaking Italian in Rome and spent the first four years of her concierge training in England. Her language skills are exemplary.” added Tanvi.

“Also, Rosangela worked with Threnody for a couple of years and it didn’t end well.” Nick went on. “I’d rather not give our cousin a free attack surface for no good reason.”

“You mean as opposed to me, Dennis, Max, Lev, and Arwen?” Simon reminded him.

“Yes. As has been established, Threnody already knows she can get at me through my friends. I’d rather not worry about her coming at me through my staff.” said Nick.

“Two questions if I may.” said Inez. When no one objected, she asked. “How did Threnody come at you through your friends?”

Nick looked uncomfortable. Simon said. “She had sex with me.”

“Which I thought we weren’t going to talk about.” Nick reminded him.

“Yeah. In hindsight, I’ve decided to talk about it.” said Simon. “I think she expects me to keep it quiet and that she can use it as a lever against me if I do. Plus, I had sex with two hot women at once and I didn’t have to strongarm either of them into it - weird as fuck, but still hot. Why would I keep that a secret?”

“Ah. The other woman was there to restrain you while Threnody had sex with you?” Inez asked.

“Ultimately, yeah. I assume that’s her MO?” Simon asked.

“There are a preponderance of unsubstantiated claims to suggest so.” said Inez.

“You should ask her about it. Maybe she’ll substantiate them for you.” Simon suggested.

“If there’s time, I’d like to.” Inez said. “I’ll be lucky if I even get through the questions I’ve prepared about her father.”

Simon smirked as Inez made a note on her iPad. Bringing the family historian along to try to throw Threnody off balance was a clever tactic he never would have expected from Nick.

“Also, why do you call Rosangela ‘Aria Giovanni?’” Inez asked Simon.

Simon reached for his phone. Using Inez to discomfit Nick was just icing on the cake. “Let me show you.”

“You ... might want to google it yourself ... with safe search on.” said Nick.

“Why safe search?” Simon rolled his eyes. “Inez, are you offended by breasts?”

“Not at all. I bring a reference pair everywhere I go in case I have trouble identifying them in the field.” said Inez.

“See?” Simon complained. “We’re in a car full of breasts, but you want to discriminate against poor Ms. Giovanni for having them. For all the breasts we’ve seen on this trip, you’d think you would get over your anti-mammary crusade. Ever since Emily brought hers out once, she seems to have forgotten how to put them away. Even Arwen took hers out for a swim this week.”

“I ... must have missed that.” said Nick.

Simon knew he was treading on thin ice, but a court jester had to be willing to offend. “Maybe if you ask her nicely, she’ll bring them out again.” When Nick gave him a dark look, but didn’t answer, he danced deftly away from the subject. “Are you planning to watch Game of Thrones next season?”

“Of course.” Nick’s frown was puzzled, not annoyed.

“So clearly you’re not entirely anti-mammary. I guess breasts are okay as long as they’re accompanied by dragons and ice zombies?” Simon suggested.

Nick shook his head. “Are you seriously trying to turn this into a discussion? I can’t tell through the wall of straw men you’ve set up.”

“It’s a long drive. Why not?” Simon suggested.

“It’s a long drive I’d like to spend discussing your new girlfriend and other aspects of Stone family history with the Stone family historian who was nice enough to fly out here to answer my questions.” Nick pointed out. “Not the relative merits of showing women pictures of other women’s tits on your phone.”

“All right. But I would like to say that I stand for the rights of busty MILFs everywhere to show their breasts in the medium or media of their choice in return for financial compensation and to not be shamed for it by anti-mammary crusaders.” said Simon.

“Save it for your AVN lifetime achievement award.” said Nick.

“What’s AVN?” Pilar asked.

“Adult Video News. They hold an award show every year. It’s like the Oscars, but for people who do a lot more than just show their breasts in order to provide sexual gratification to men around the world in return for financial compensation.” Simon answered, then turned to Nick who was blushing. “Or maybe you meant a different AVN. I’m not sure where you would have heard of the porn one.”

Inez was looking at her phone. “Ah. I think I see who you mean. There is a ... striking resemblance.”

“I believe they’re related. Rosangela told me they were cousins.” said Tanvi.

Simon smirked. “Seriously?”

“I think she meant cousins in the sense that Nick and Pilar are cousins, not in the sense that Pilar and Inez are cousins.” said Tanvi.

“You mean they have sex loudly while other people are trying to sleep?” asked Simon.

“That didn’t come up. I was merely referring to their relative consanguinity. I understand it’s common for Italians to refer to distant relations as cousins.” said Tanvi.

“So, they might have had sex?” Simon persisted.

“Simon.” said Nick sharply enough for a first warning. “Can we table this discussion and get back to Stone family history?”

“Sure. But I still think we should be using your money to decriminalize women’s bodies and the many oddly delightful things they can do with them for fun and profit.” said Simon.

Nick shook his head and rolled his eyes. “Get me a book or an expert and we’ll put it on the agenda.”

“Seriously?” Simon raised an eyebrow.

“Seriously. I want to explore some number of causes I currently think of as bad ideas over the remainder of 2015. We’ve got about forty speaker slots between now and the end of the year. The next time we have a meeting, I’m going to throw a big pile of maybes on the table and let everyone vote on which ones we actually want to bring in. But everybody also gets one freebie. Find a speaker who is willing to be engaged for a not-absurd amount of money to talk about a topic of your choice and we’ll slot them in without voting. If that turns out to not be disastrous, we’ll do it every three or four months going forward.” Nick said.

“You know my brother’s going to use that to bring in Timothy Leary.” said Simon.

“Timothy Leary’s dead.” said Nick.

“It’s a nice thought, but are you seriously going to consider giving money to organizations that want to legalize prostitution?” Simon asked.

“I will seriously consider giving money to any cause we bring before the committee.” said Nick. “I’m not promising I’ll give money to anyone I haven’t already given money to. But, I’m serious about wanting to learn things I don’t already know. I don’t want the next two years to be one big circle-jerk. I want to be challenged. I’m relying on you particularly to make that happen. If anyone’s going to make a case for why I should fund neo-Nazi swing bands, I assume it will be you.”

“I hate to disappoint you, but I’m completely anti-neo-Nazi.” said Simon. After waiting a beat, he added. “The accomplishments of the Third Reich shouldn’t be represented by bad haircuts and men who buy their clothes in the linens department. What was wrong with the original Nazis?”

“Apart from genocide, mass murder, plunging the world into a conflict it’s never really recovered from and ruining the bustling Berlin cabaret scene, you mean?” Nick quipped.

“They also spoiled many of Europe’s best dungeons for sex.” Pilar added.

Simon looked back and forth between them, an evil grin spreading on his face. “Tell me you two did not go at it in the Nazi sex dungeon.”

Nick shot a look at Pilar. “We didn’t because it’s a Nazi sex dungeon.”

“Actually the Nazis used the dungeons of the Palazzo dei Sette Sogni to hold prisoners during a two year period in the forties. It didn’t become notorious as a sex dungeon until the eighties and nineties.” said Inez. “It was a Nazi dungeon, then a sex dungeon. It was probably never a Nazi sex dungeon.”

“See?” Pilar looked at Nick.

“She said ‘probably.’” Nick pointed out.

“My point is that the dungeons were built over four hundred years ago. The Nazis used them for less than one half of one percent of their history. It’s not really fair to disqualify them from any activities based on such a brief period of time, particularly when far more atrocities were probably carried out there in previous centuries - none of which stopped Juno Tiberius Ferrari-Stone and his guests from using them for all sorts of sexual activities over a period seven or eight times as long as their Nazi past.” Inez elucidated.

“Yes, thank you.” said Nick. “But since I want to imitate Threnody’s father even less than I want to imitate Threnody herself, the point is a bit moot.”

“Even moot points can be interesting.” said Inez.

Simon laughed. “I like you, Inez.”

“Thank you.” Inez nodded. “I find you ... more entertaining than off-putting.”

“It’s a shame you’re already engaged, Inez.” said Nick. “That’s probably the nicest thing a woman has ever said to Simon.”

“‘Engaged’ isn’t the same as ‘dead,’ Nick.” Inez said.

“Ah. You’re not Simon’s type, then.” Nick answered.

Simon winced. “They’re not dead. They’ve just heard that if they hold very very still, I might move on.”

“Okay. That got dark fast.” said Nick. “Maybe we should lighten the conversation and just talk about Threnody for a while. Inez, what do you know about Threnody?”

“Enough to write a book with all the good parts missing.” said Inez. “It’s not exactly light subject matter, though.”

“It’s got to be lighter than necrophilia jokes.” Simon suggested.

“Arguably. It does involve kidnapping, sexual dysfunction, and murder.” said Inez.

“All right.” Nick gave Simon a tone-it-down gesture. “Start with a high-level synopsis?”

“Threnody Ferrari-Stone is the daughter of Juno Tiberius Ferrari-Stone and Luigia Gianna Ferrari-Stone. Her mother was the second-born of Donato Ferrari-Stone who ruled in Ferrari from 1932 to 1981. Her father was the first-born of Eusebio Ferrari-Stone who arguably led an offshoot of the Ferrari-Stones in the United States in the fifties and sixties. Eusebio turned a small fortune into a large fortune in the thirties as a revivalist preacher. The marriage in 1964 was seen as the reconciliation of a split in the family during the late nineteenth century and would have made Juno a billionaire in his own right, but the death of Luigia’s twin brother, officially born seven minutes before her, put her and her eldest son in line to inherit the state of Ferrari and the attached fortune.”

Simon raised an eyebrow. “Is there going to be a handout at the end of this or should we be taking notes?”

“I can send you a bibliography. The high-level material is very well covered in existing histories.” said Inez.

“All ... right.” Simon said carefully. “When you say the State of Ferrari, do you mean it’s a state like in the United States or something else?”

Inez shook her head. “Ferrari was established as a papal state in the thirteenth century, primarily known for its ironworks. Its borders moved around a lot over time, but it was ruled by one bloodline from the very beginning. During the Italian unification, it was allowed to retain a plenipotentiary status similar to Vatican City, but different in the particulars. It’s under Italian rule and Italian laws, but ruled through the Doge of Ferrari who enforces that law. There’s been a ton written about how the Doge’s authority comes from both the Church and the Italian State, but it all comes down to the idea that Italy can treat Ferrari like any other part of the country, but generally doesn’t. It’s widely believed that Italy wouldn’t be a country if the Doge of Ferrari had actively opposed reunification.”

“So Threnody is Doge of Ferrari?” Nick asked.

“Yes. Succession was to the firstborn son of the Doge until Donato changed the rules to avoid the pressure to remarry after his son died. The state and its attached fortune passed from Donato to Luigia Gianna to JT to Threnody. Eusebio’s branch of the family strongly disagreed with the succession and tried to seize the palace in 1949. The Italians and Americans stepped in and killed most of the splinter group, but a dozen or so conspirators fled to the United States where they further split into two groups - one that probably ran a crime syndicate in Baltimore and one that joined Eusebio in his aforementioned revivalist show. Eusebio had gone to the States in 1927 fleeing a murder charge and was doing very well for himself by 1949.” Inez paused. “There’s a whole other story there, but it gets us further away from Threnody. The point of going this far back is to establish that Threnody has a lot of religion, Protestant and Catholic in her makeup and that not everyone in the family agreed or agrees she should be Doge.”

“All right.” said Nick.

“Fast forward, Threnody was born September 19, 1989. Luigia Gianna was Doge at the time and there was some question as to the legitimacy of Juno’s paternity because they’d been married five years without an heir at that point. They had a second child almost ten years later and Luigia is believed to have committed suicide in a fit of postpartum depression when Verity was four months old.” said Inez.

“Do you think that’s how she died?” Simon asked. “It seems like there’s a conspiracy theory for everything that ever happened to the Ferrari-Stones.”

“As a historian, I don’t like to make definitive statements about disputed topics, but suicide is most likely.” said Inez. “JT became Threnody’s regent when LG died, but but that was arguably a demotion. He effectively acted as doge from shortly after he married LG. The earliest stories of him throwing wild sex parties at the Palazzo dei Sette Sogni go back to 1985 when they’d been married a little over a year. Ferrari started issuing bonds the same year Threnody was born, but accelerated borrowing in 1999. Most of the debt Threnody is trying to clear was issued in her name by her father.”

Inez took a deep breath. “Threnody spent most of her childhood in a Swiss boarding school called L’Ecole Coppet des Jeunes Filles. The school itself has a fascinating history that I won’t get into except to say that it’s been alternately referred to as ‘the Geisha School’ and ‘the School for Mistresses’ by alumnae who attended in the 1950s and 1970s respectively. When Threnody attended, the school’s nickname of choice appears to have been ‘Coppa Feel.’”

“When Threnody was sixteen, she was kidnapped from a beach owned by the school along with her friend Noelle Gennevois. What actually happened during that kidnapping is a matter of extensive speculation, but the official story is either that two of the kidnappers were Ferrari separatists from the American branch of the family and one was an agent for the State of Ferrari who ultimately helped Threnody escape or they were all separatists and one had a change of heart. Threnody has told both stories herself. Either way, they issued a demand that JT abdicate and hand over the family fortune to his younger brother Giovanni. Less than a week after the kidnapping, Threnody walked into an SSCS office in Zurich dehydrated, exhausted, and hungry. She eventually gave enough information that investigators found a burned-out chalet near the border with Liechtenstein which contained the remains of two members of the Stone family closely related to Ferrari separatists and Noelle Gennevois. Threnody said she escaped with the help of a third man who may or may not have been a member of the Stone family and who was never located.”

“Threnody told different versions of what happened to her while she was kidnapped at different times - not an uncommon occurrence when someone so young undergoes a traumatic event. Before his death, JT routinely mentioned details inconsistent with any story that Threnody told or would tell. To really confuse the issue, contradictory details were leaked to the press from sources inside the palace and two fairly well-established writers independently said they’d been paid to concoct and distribute conspiracy theories about the kidnapping.” Inez said. “So, anything more I can say about that would be loaded down with caveats.”

“Maybe we should skip ahead to JT’s death?” Simon suggested. He didn’t want to hear what Inez thought qualified as loaded down. Nick nodded.

“A quick side note before that. Shortly before Threnody’s eighteenth birthday, JT declared that his regency would last until Threnody turned twenty-five because she was ‘still fragile from her ordeal.’ There were no provisions in any of Ferrari’s founding documents for extending the regency and people expected a big, messy fight, but Threnody publicly accepted this decree. Twenty-two days after her eighteenth birthday, her father overdosed on barbiturates, fell or was pushed into one of the pools at his palace, and drowned. Threnody was surrounded by people when it happened and the drugs in JT’s system were consistent with his known pattern of use so even though there were a ton of suspicions about her role in his death, the formal inquiry was ultimately closed without an indictment and JT’s death ruled an accident.” Inez said. “There were again accusations that someone in Ferrari, possibly Threnody herself, was actively encouraging misinformation and conspiracy theories to obscure what was really going on there, but the accusations were less credible than the ones from two years previous.” Inez said. “Roughly two months after JT’s death, Jesse stays at the Palazzo Ferrari for the first time.”

“How did Jesse get involved?” Nick asked. “If all of this was going on, how did anyone ever think Threnody was a good chaperone for a fifteen year-old boy?”

“Well, you have to remember that I’m not even dipping into what people believe about Threnody and her family, just what we can confirm actually happened. Jesse’s father and his money are from the Masterson-Stone branch, but his mother is a Ferrari-Stone and, by all accounts, a loyalist. But as an American, her loyalties were always suspect. She might not have believed what I just told you about Threnody and she might have been eager to prove her loyalty.” said Inez.

“I guess you’ve never talked to her about it?” Pilar asked.

“I haven’t. Velia has been institutionalized in 2011 and Jesse has asked me not to interview her.” said Inez. “Her declining mental state may have contributed to her decision to entrust her son’s well-being to Threnody, but I prefer to focus on logical motivations.”

“Jesus Christ. Is everybody in your family fucked up or just the really rich ones?” asked Simon.

“I’ve met plenty of cousins who seem entirely typical for their demographic.” said Inez. “Also, Opal is pretty normal. She did sue her father for control of their oil company when she was still a teenager, but he seems much happier now that he’s retired.”

“So, Threnody and Jesse?” Nick prompted.

“Yes. Jesse took up fencing when he was very young and competed on the junior circuit in America for years. Shortly after ascending to the throne, Threnody invited him to stay at the palace, study with some European fencing masters, and compete internationally. Some time when Jesse was either fifteen or sixteen, she got pregnant with a child that is, by all indications, his. Her son Gianni is about five years old by now, but very few people have seen him. Jesse’s told me that he very badly wants custody, but he hasn’t tried to get it through the courts. I don’t know what he’s doing about it.”

“Threnody told me she would give Jesse full custody of Gianni once he’s married a wife suitable to raise the next patriarch of the Stone family.” said Nick.

“I’d never heard that.” admitted Inez. “But I doubt she would find Jesse’s current fiancee acceptable. Priyanka’s a crusader and Threnody is all about consolidation of power.”

“So she said. She actually sounded like she admired this Priyanka.” said Nick.

“She might. She created her.” said Inez.

“Explain?” Nick requested.

“Threnody’s household is weird. Multiple people have reported that there are no men living there, only women. Butlers, footpeople, stable hands, everyone female. Besides a regular court, she has somewhere between nine and twelve ... secretaries - all young women fiercely loyal to her that, if reports are to be believed, have lived with her since they were young ... some very young.” said Inez. “At least some of them, she rescued from pretty dire circumstances. Priya’s talked about it publicly. Threnody’s agents found her when she was twelve years old and her parents were looking to either marry her off or sell her. They bought her for less than a hundred dollars. She grew up in Threnody’s house. They became lovers. She was Threnody’s right hand for a while. Now she uses Threnody’s techniques to find and rescue young women in dire circumstances and get them into sanctuaries, but she’s rougher about it. Threnody doesn’t get in trouble with the law. Priyanka might technically be a terrorist.”

“Seriously?” Simon asked. “Jesse’s engaged to a terrorist?”

“That depends on who you ask on both counts. Jesse hasn’t officially broken off the engagement, but they haven’t set a date in two years and some people call her a terrorist, but that might all be propaganda. Either way, there are people in the family who’ve asked Jesse to officially distance himself from her because she makes it harder to do business in some places.”

“What’s your opinion?” Nick asked.

“As a historian or personally?” Inez asked.

“Whichever one is juicier.” said Nick.

“Personally, everything I’ve heard suggests she does bad things to very bad people. Unlike Threnody, she never buys girls’ freedom. Her agents set traffickers up and then rob them, maybe beat them, possibly kill a few. She might be the next Phoolan Devi.”

“I don’t know who that is.” Nick admitted.

“Phoolan Devi was either a mass murderer or the female Indian Robin Hood. She went to jail for killing a bunch of upper-caste men who raped her. After she got out of jail, she was elected to parliament. How people feel about her depends on which narrative they choose.” said Inez.

Nick looked thoughtful. Simon could almost watch the gears turning in his friend’s head as he weighed what he’d been told. It was like he had a little angelic Lev on one shoulder telling him to admire Priyanka because she was fighting evil and an equal-sized demonic Simon on his other shoulder mocking him for even considering it. With Lev not here, full-sized Simon didn’t have to do that. But he knew that Nick had his own rabbit holes that could distract him from the business at hand and moral quandaries were a big one. Simon decided to deliberately distract him. “What do you know about Threnody’s debts, Inez?”

“She has a lot of them or did at one point. Her father acquiring them was supposedly casus belli for her kidnappers. She may have paid them off by now.” said Inez.

“She told me she still owes about two billion dollars and that it will take her twenty years to pay off.” said Nick.

“She ... told you that?” Inez asked.

“And she didn’t ask you to keep it a secret?” Pilar added.

“Yes, she told me. No, she didn’t say it was a secret. Why?” Nick asked.

“Well, it’s definitely not common knowledge.” said Inez.

“Why tell me then?” Nick asked. “Could she be lying?”

“No. It matches Ferrari’s sovereign debt issuance patterns.” said Simon. When Inez and Pilar turned to stare at him, he added. “The math works out.”

“I guess she wants you to know then.” said Inez.

“Maybe she wants to see who you tell.” added Simon. “It could tell her about who you trust or how hostile you are to her.”

“Christ. She’s back in our heads again.” said Nick. “New topic, please.”

As soon as he saw it, Nick had to admit that his winery was charming. He also had to admit that seeing it brought him no closer to being able to put a price on it. There were rows upon rows of grapes set off from both sides of the road, but how much was a row of grapes worth? Was the value in the buildings? They looked to be in the same style as the palazzo where they’d been staying, but they could just as easily be old churches or warehouses for all he knew. Was it a function of how much wine they actually produced? He considered asking Simon, but decided against it. Whatever knowledge he was missing, he wasn’t going to learn it in an afternoon. Instead, he tried to look at it the way Threnody might. She’d called it the land of her heart and suggested she had fond childhood memories from here.

Maybe if he was more fond of where he grew up, he would understand what she’d tried to show him. What if he’d been able to come here summers to get away from the Mills? Would he love this place too?

He decided to put that line of thought aside too. He was already starting to sympathize with Threnody too much and he knew it. He couldn’t help it. Whatever else she was, she hadn’t had an easy life. Her father sounded like a world-class asshole. She’d lost her mother near the same age Nick and Arwen had lost theirs. And the kidnapping ... Nick may not know many details, but it had to have been terrible. It was amazing she wasn’t even more maladjusted than she seemed to be.

When they pulled up to the main building, a small crowd waited for them. A man who turned out to be the manager of the winery shook hands and kissed cheeks as Nick’s friends emerged from the first car. Nick got a more ebullient handshake and a kiss on each cheek then a kiss on each cheek from the manager’s wife then a kiss on each cheek from his blushing daughter. Finally he got a single reserved kiss on one cheek and a handshake from a blonde girl in jodhpurs, a starched white blouse, riding boots and gloves.

“Greetings, cousin.” said the blonde girl. “My sister Threnody wants me to tell you she’s been unavoidably detained, but I’m pretty sure she’s just waiting to better time her entrance.”

“Ah. You’re Threnody’s sister?” Nick asked intelligently.

“Verity Ferrari-Stone, trotted out for your perusal.” Verity held up her arms like she was showing herself off. “I suspect this outfit is largely for your benefit, Nick. Do you like it?”

“I ... yes.” Nick was thoroughly confused. “Sorry. I seem to have missed a page in the script. What are we talking about?”

“Well...” Verity turned neatly so that she was at Nick’s side and gestured that they should walk inside. Nick followed. “Two days ago, my sister informed me that we would be visiting this winery today. When I got here, I found a new riding outfit waiting for me. And then I found out I was meeting the newest billionaire in the Stone family. I suppose she felt my school uniform would be a little too obvious for the first time I met you, but maybe she’ll want me to change into it later.”

Nick finally understood. “Christ. She seriously brought you down here to what? Show you off to me as a possible wife?”

“Or a broodmare.” said Verity. “Has she suggested I would make a good mother for your children yet?”

“She ... mentioned it.” acknowledged Nick. “I’m so sorry. I...”

“Don’t be sorry. I haven’t been off campus since Easter. If it weren’t for this sort of viewing, she might never let me out. As long as we agree that you’re not going to try to impregnate me today, we might as well make the most of it.” Verity stepped in closer. “I know everyone says my sister is supposed to be fiendishly clever, but she’s always seemed rather transparent to me.”

Nick couldn’t help but like the remarkably poised young woman at his side. “Scout’s honor. I have no interest in getting you pregnant, Verity.”

“Good.” Verity turned back to the door where people were filing in. “Is one of the pretty Spanish girls with you?”

“Yes, Pilar is my girlfriend. And she’s Mexican-American actually.” said Nick.

“Is she the jealous sort?” Verity asked.

“Not at all.” said Nick.

“Good. If Threnody thinks we’re getting friendly, maybe she’ll find other excuses to trot me out for you in the future. I have two more years of school before I’m eighteen and I’d like at least a chance to get away between now and then. Help me humor her?”

Nick wanted to so badly it was almost a physical ache, but he frowned, looking Verity up and down. “Maybe. How do I know you’re not working with your sister to play me from both sides?”

Verity’s laugh was musical and made her eyes flash. “Oh, Nick. You can’t be serious. Don’t you spy on us at all?”