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Convergence by Megumi Kashuahara

awnlee jawking 🚫

I know there's AI-generated content but I was grabbed by the description:

When fifteen-year-old Melissa Johnson submits a question card at Princeton's Public Math Night, professor Samuel Patterson doesn't just ignore it — he rips it apart in front of eight hundred people and calls her a project girl who wandered in off the street. She doesn't sit down. What follows is the story of a girl from Newark who taught herself calculus from library books, learned German to read a two-hundred-year-old manuscript, and found the door that sixty brilliant mathematicians couldn't

I was glad I read it. AI pushes lots of feelgood buttons and had me rooting for the protagonist. It's earned a stellar score and, comparing it with peer works, I think it deserves it.

AJ

jimq2 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I don't know if they still do the Public Math Nights, but I remember back in the 60's going to them in one of the lecture halls across Washington St from Firestone Library or Alexander Hall when they got crowded.

sunseeker 🚫

@awnlee jawking

she's published enough stories here it looks like she's getting better at using AI. I tried reading a couple of her early stories and stopped. Guess I'll have to check this one out.

SunSeeker

limab 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Although there is a flavor of AI in the story it is not overwhelming. The author seems to have skill in using AI as a tool and not as a replacement for talent. It would be interesting to see how she uses AI in her stories, but not necessary. I will have to look into her other stories.

limab

helmut_meukel 🚫

@awnlee jawking

It's earned a stellar score and, comparing it with peer works, I think it deserves it.

It's a good story and it ends when it should.
Whoever wrote it produced some inconsistencies, the most glaring is in chapter 4:

She thought about the forty-one-page paper she didn't know existed.

How could she?

Then a sentence early in chapter 5:

[...] the particular quality of light that comes through east-facing windows in early spring — thin and tentative, the light of a world that hasn't yet decided what kind of day it intends to be.

What "it"? the light? the world? Neither can become any kind of day.

The mathematical problem and the described approach to solve it is far too high above the level of math I had to deal with while studying for my engineering BS. So I refrain to talk about it.
AFAIK some lemmas are known by names, like Greendlinger's lemma, Schur's lemma, Vitali covering lemma, ...;; but none by number (Lemma 9). This can only be the ninth lemma she used in her work. She mentioned Lemma 9 however before she presented her work and seemed to expect the other person to know which part of the problem she named Lemma 9.

HM.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Lemma 9 however before she presented her work and seemed to expect the other person to know which part of the problem she named Lemma 9.

I don't know whether it's real either, but it shows up on Google searches and the description (which is way over my head) seems in the right ball park.

AJ

Vincent Berg 🚫

@helmut_meukel

> [...] the particular quality of light that comes through
> east-facing windows in early spring —
> thin and tentative, the light of a world
> that hasn't yet decided what kind of day
> it intends to be.

What "it"? the light? the world? Neither can become any kind of day.

Sorry, but there's nothing wrong with that usage, as it's how metaphors are written, treating something as something it isn't. And metaphors have been used in literature for thousands of years, well before Christianity.

As for her use of "Lemma 9", this is a fiction story, not her autobiography, so what difference does it make? It's what the characters use to describe it, why attribute any other meaning to the one implied. If you're curious, then just ask her yourself.

In the end, if it doesn't detract from the story, then what difference does it make?

But I'm guessing she's "writing what she knows" as she apparently has a decent grasp on mathematics, where few fiction authors do. Which is quite an accomplishment on its own.

Diamond Porter 🚫
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

I do have a PhD in Mathematics so I will take this as my cue.

The description of how a mathematician thinks about a problem is fairly good, but the technical details are a jumble. (My principal objections relating to the thought processes are tiny ones: the time frame is absurdly short for the work she is doing; also, the "Eureka" moments usually come when you step away, not while you are staring at the problem.)

As you observe, "Lemma 9" is just whichever lemma is ninth in her paper as she wrote it. That won't match "Lemma 9" in any other paper. A lemma is just one step in a bigger proof. (In general, a lemma gets a name when the original lemma proves to be useful in other contexts so that it is referenced by other papers. Effectively, such a lemma is used as a theorem in its own right.)

The biggest mathematical problem is the translation issue. The story makes a big deal of the error in translation that causes the translated conjecture to differ from the original conjecture. To a mathematician, that just means that there are now two conjectures, both of which may be worth working on. (Incidentally, there are many first-rate German-speaking mathematicians, so it requires some suspension of disbelief that everybody has accepted the erroneous translation for 60 years.)

Apart from that, the story is correct to say that significant advances often come from combining branches of mathematics. However, in the story, she says she is using topology to solve problems in number theory, but then she appears to use graph theory instead of topology, and Lemma 9 seems to be stuck in real analysis.

Historically, both real and complex analysis have been used to solve problems in number theory. I could believe that the story is simplifying the situation for the benefit of laymen, and that really: the earlier papers had already established a framework for addressing the problem using real analysis, she was transforming the problem from real analysis into graph theory, then embedding her graph into some kind of manifold, and then using topological methods... Or, possibly, the story writes "interval" where the mathematicians are discussing topological neighbo(u)rhoods or open sets.

In any case, the concept of the open interval (the interval without its endpoints) is well established, and it is unlikely that any mathematician would spend time debating the necessity of including the endpoints (that is, using the closed interval instead).

On top of all that, there is a reference to Gödel, which is expected if she is proving that the conjecture is undecidable, or even unprovable. However, the visiting expert gives the halting problem as an example, which it is not. Then the protagonist responds that she is not proving that the conjecture is unprovable, but rather that it is provable. In general, the way to show that something is provable is to prove it, without bringing in Gödel's work. (I am not aware of any conjecture that has been shown to be provable without proving it.)

There are some other, non-mathematical problems, like having a three-member panel composed of Patterson, Jamison, Simpson, and Bennett. There is also no explanation of how she arranges to skip school for over a week.

Having said all of that, I still think it is a good story. Something that is probably not obvious to the layman is how she is solving the problem of her mother taking the bus: Proving the Riemann Conjecture would win her a prize of USD 1M.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels 🚫

@Diamond Porter

Something that is probably not obvious to the layman is how she is solving the problem of her mother taking the bus: Proving the Riemann Conjecture would win her a prize of USD 1M.

Ah, thank you for that! It transformed that question from something for Melissa to work on in the future to a specific action plan!

kkaenyne 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Megumi Kashuahara

As a general attitude, I avoid AI...your words set that aside for this and I thank you for that and agree...stellar!

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