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Write Or Cut Grass?

SGTStoner 🚫

I've been writing for a long time, but I've never dove into fiction before. It's a completely different environment, and I'm not sure I'm write well enough for fiction, or whether my take on it is engaging enough. The Swarm universe ended up calling to me, as my military background and love for history and science fiction nagged at me, I finally broke through the barrier and started writing. It has pretty much taken me over for the past few days, and as much as I've enjoyed the exercise I have to wonder if anyone else might appreciate the result. I've got 12,000 words so far, with a few re-writes, going back to edit parts, and being particularly anal about spelling and grammar as much as my suspect skills at typing will permit.

I'm not a guy who really is interested in writing about sex a lot. It's a vitally important aspect of the human experience, but it just doesn't feel like much of a story vehicle to me. Love, sure. Desire, hell yes. Describing orgasms, well, not so much. I appreciate those who do it well, and there's certainly a lot out there from what I've read here, but I doubt I'm one of them. To me, what I can offer is a little different.

I'm the kind of guy who read Orson Scott Card when I was in college, before I enlisted in the Army, and he changed my life. No, I mean, HE CHANGED MY LIFE. The characters he created taught lessons about problem solving, adaptive cognition, creative chaos and strategic mastery that I will carry with me all my days, just like Bugs Bunny cartoons tricked me into loving opera when I was a kid in elementary school. There are creative masters out there. I might not ever be one of them, but I'm never going to find out unless I give the fruit of my mind to some total stranger, inviting them to dash every hope and dream I might insanely harbor on the rocks of my inadequate capabilities.

So if you're maybe amused by the idea of reading the starting chapters of a story about some misfit and his band of malcontents that starts up the insane idea of an electronic warfare squadron pitted against the mindless, uncaring, existential, interterrestrial threat to humankind, please drop me a line. If you choose to give me some feedback in any form or fashion I will be enormously grateful, and I'm sure readers would benefit as a result.

At the very least, you can abuse me of the notion that spending my time doing this makes any sense, and I can regain the initiative to go mow my overgrown lawn instead.

Replies: Remus2 madnige awnlee jawking Dominions Son joyR

Remus2 🚫

@SGTStoner

At the very least, you can abuse me of the notion that spending my time doing this makes any sense, and I can regain the initiative to go mow my overgrown lawn instead.

Cut the lawn then write to relax.

madnige 🚫

@SGTStoner

an electronic warfare squadron

Have you perchance read sagacious' The Mission?

Sounds like you might enjoy it, after you've cut the grass.

Replies: SGTStoner

SGTStoner 🚫

@madnige

Hadn't seen it, and thanks for the suggestion. Great story so far. I like it when someone is writing about what they know, and double when they know about a subject I'm familiar with. Wish this guy posted more!

awnlee jawking 🚫

@SGTStoner

I've been writing for a long time, but I've never dove into fiction before. It's a completely different environment, and I'm not sure I'm write well enough for fiction

In my opinion you're trying to overthink the situation. If you look at the historically great science fiction writers, they broke many of the current 'rules' for writing fiction - for example, they're over-heavy on the telling - yet they wrote great stories which have survived the test of time despite outdated technology. So if you can write well and tell a good story, you can certainly write well enough for fiction.

I'm not a fan of the Swarm Cycle - I find the whole premise misogynistic - yet some authors have, IMO, written some very engaging character-based stories.

Your concept sounds very intriguing. I'd certainly read it if you ever decide to post your story on SOL.

AJ

SGTStoner 🚫

Thanks for the feedback, and yes, I agree there are issues with this universe, but some of the ideas there seem worth developing despite those issues.

So here it is. Hope folks enjoy, and if anyone wants to sign on to the thankless task of helping me out here, I'd more than welcome the help!

https://storiesonline.net/s/20565/victoria-per-scientiam

Replies: Reluctant_Sir

Reluctant_Sir 🚫

@SGTStoner

SGTStoner.. Just a head's up, that is NOT an open universe and you should contact the owner first. There is a whole authors' group and they do some fairly comprehensive vetting to make sure no one is blowing up the universe without permission.

One of the guys said he sent you an email, but I thought I would pitch in here as well, a friendly reminder to others who want to write in an existing universe that some are not free fire zones.

Replies: seanski1969 SGTStoner

seanski1969 🚫

@Reluctant_Sir

who want to write in an existing universe that some are not free fire zones.

Trying to understand what the hell that means?????? Can't someone just write and call it fanfiction? Seems to be a lot of that here on SOL. Too many control freaks out there....

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@seanski1969

Trying to understand what the hell that means?????? Can't someone just write and call it fanfiction? Seems to be a lot of that here on SOL. Too many control freaks out there....

First you need to define what fan-fiction actually is.

For example, George R R Martin is well known for his dislike of authors stealing his characters and stories and has stated that those doing so should be prosecuted. At first this might seem strange as he spent many years as a fan fiction writer himself. However, he points out that fan fiction as he practised it was to create his own characters and worlds, NOT to simply steal those created by the authors he was a fan of. His definition makes sense as it totally avoids both copyright and plagiarism charges.

Despite his views, there is GoT 'fan-fiction' here on SoL.

Next, whilst Thinking Horndog's Sa'arm Universe was kicked off by his story 'Average Joes' and is owned by him, the world he created is in fact partially inspired by Starship Troopers, and the 'Naked in School' concept.

In fact the intro to the universe actually states;

The intent is for it to be a public, multi-author universe after the fashion of the popular Naked in School stories.

That statement is contradictory. Why? Because SoL recognises three types of universe.

1. Public (openly shared - any author can post stories in it)
2. Multi-author (public-restricted — Only authorized authors can post in it)
3. Private (only its creator can add stories to it).

In fact The Swarm universe is type 2.

But it directly references the 'Naked in School' universe, which is type 1.

So, given the existing examples to be found on SoL, it is perfectly acceptable to steal both characters and 'world' and call your story fan-fiction, but to have it included in a type 2 universe, you need the owner's permission. (But you can state in the story intro that it is set in the Sa'arm universe.

Alternatively you can keep the ideas, change the characters names and post it with an intro that states it is not an 'approved' Swarm Cycle story. That has also been done on SoL.

So whilst the Swarm Cycle universe is stated to be a free fire zone, it actually isn't. But don't let that stop you, it hasn't stopped others, after all, as soon as you claim it is fan-fiction, all claims of copyright magically disappear.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

However, he points out that fan fiction as he practised it was to create his own characters and worlds, NOT to simply steal those created by the authors he was a fan of. His definition makes sense as it totally avoids both copyright and plagiarism charges.

His definition is nonsense, because as entirely original works, they don't represent any kind of fandom.

Replies: joyR

joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

His definition is nonsense, because as entirely original works, they don't represent any kind of fandom.

A quote from Thinking Horndog.

Readers of sci-fi will see more than a little Weber and Ringo in the basic scenario. I've tried HARD not to plagarize regarding species traits, timeline, etc., and the focus is somewhat different. Beyond that, I guess it's thanks and a hat tip...

So, according to G R R M, TH's Swarm Cycle is fan fiction, but it is NOT infringing Heinlein's copyright.

Another example:

The entire galaxy knows that George Lucas basically worshipped Akira Kurosawa and his legendary film The Hidden Fortress, from which so much of the Star Wars universe was spawned, and that Flash Gordon flashed through his imagination long before Luke Skywalker was a twinkle in his eye from far, far away.

Source

Obviously opinions widely vary which is why I stated that as soon as fan-fiction is mentioned all claims of copyright magically disappear.

Outside fan-fiction most people agree that an original character and 'world' created by an author is 'owned' by them, if you doubt that, the Disney lawyers look forward to meeting you. Using another author's characters etc IS theft, no matter how it might be justified, it remains theft.

But, as stated, simply placing your story in the fan fiction category magically changes theft and copyright infringement into something acceptable.

Personally, a thief is a thief is a thief. Period.

George Lucas isn't a thief, G R R Martin isn't a thief, any amateur writer of an original work isn't a thief no matter what inspired them. But, a fan fiction author who steals the characters etc they use IS a thief.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

I stated that as soon as fan-fiction is mentioned all claims of copyright magically disappear.

No, they don't. However, some authors and publishers actively tolerate fan fiction, and the odds of getting caught if your aren't publishing for money are very low.

That doesn't make it right though, just easy to get away with.

And quite frankly, you don't even need to mention fan fiction to get there. There are too many people out there who think all copyright is illegitimate.

Outside fan-fiction most people agree that an original character and 'world' created by an author is 'owned' by them, if you doubt that

I don't.

magically changes theft and copyright infringement into something acceptable

Copyright infringement is wrong, but I don't buy into the copyright infringement = theft, no, it does not.

Theft deprives the rightful owner of that which is stolen. Copyright infringement does not.

George Lucas isn't a thief, G R R Martin isn't a thief, any amateur writer of an original work isn't a thief no matter what inspired them.

Sorry, every author whether conscious of it or not is inspired by every story they have ever read, every story that came before them. By Martin's definition, all fiction is fan fiction.

Replies: joyR joyR

joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

Sorry, every author whether conscious of it or not is inspired by every story they have ever read, every story that came before them. By Martin's definition, all fiction is fan fiction.

By what convoluted thought process do you arrive at that conclusion..??

Martin use to write fan-fiction in the 60's, he didn't use the characters and worlds created by others, he invented his own, as did Lucas et all.

How exactly is that the same as a fan fiction author stealing the characters in Harry Potter, GoT etc complete with their worlds...???

It plainly isn't..!!

Inspired by is NOT the same as stealing characters etc.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

Inspired by is NOT the same as stealing characters etc.

I didn't say anything remotely close to that. In fact I said the opposite. It's absurd to call wholly original stories "inspired by" what or whoever fan-fiction.

joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

Theft deprives the rightful owner of that which is stolen. Copyright infringement does not.

Theft is taking that which does not belong to you.

SGTStoner 🚫
Updated:

@Reluctant_Sir

Reluctant_Sir, I completely understand and plead ignorance on this account. I have contacted Thinking Horndog and made a request to be allowed to contribute to his universe after learning that I should do so. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes here. Maybe having some of these conventions more clearly announced would help prevent mistakes like mine if this is an issue, which after consideration might likely have been the case in the past.

By the way, I've read just about everything you've done and loved it all. You're not a small part at all of the reason I'm doing this and If I jumped the gun in my exuberance, your share in the fault is not inconsiderable.

Replies: Reluctant_Sir Remus2

Reluctant_Sir 🚫

@SGTStoner

No worries, and it is not an 'OFF WITH 'IS 'EAD!" type thing, it is more that no one wants you to create something that forces others writers to accommodate your change, not without some discussion.

Think of it like this. Your story, set in the SWARM universe, let's the Dickheads arrive much earlier and blow up our sun. If no one knew you were writing that and your story was a blockbuster, it would become canon no matter what anyone says.

Now every other writer who writes a SWARM story has to take that into consideration. You have killed every single story that might have been set in our solar system, on Earth or the Moon, and killed every story about pickups.

Not fair to others, right? By talking with TH and the other authors, you can collaborate on a universe that doesn't exclude other authors and not write things that are contrary to established canon.

I am very glad to hear you enjoyed my stories and I am looking forward to reading yours

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Reluctant_Sir

By talking with TH and the other authors, you can collaborate on a universe that doesn't exclude other authors and not write things that are contrary to established canon.

The canon seems to be enduring significant 'creep', and many recent stories seem to involve exceptions and rule-breaking.

There's quite a significant number of Swarm Cycle-like stories which are definitely not canon. 'Not Your Average Joe' by double_entendre springs to mind.

I can vaguely remember another one involving a pair of older married geniuses. The Confederacy wanted to extract the husband but not the wife because she was post-menopausal. When they tried to force the issue, the extraction was thwarted because the geniuses had reverse-engineered and improved on Confederacy technology. Unfortunately I can't remember the title/author.

Perhaps there should be a Swarm Cycle-like Universe to collect such stories.

AJ

Replies: Keet

Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

That was Tetley's Cap -1 story.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Keet

That was Tetley's Cap -1 story.

Thanks!

AJ

Remus2 🚫

@SGTStoner

Seven basic plots.

1. Overcoming the Monster.
2. Rags to Riches.
3. The Quest.
4. Voyage and Return.
5. Comedy.
6. Tragedy.
7. Rebirth.

It's inevitable that you pick up some basic segments in your story from something you've read, heard, or seen at some point in your life. The seven basic plots further muddy the waters.

Make up your own universe and don't worry.

richardshagrin 🚫

Don't cut grass, smoke it.

Dominions Son 🚫

@SGTStoner

Write Or Cut Grass?

You could do both. Use a pattern mow to write something in your lawn. :)

joyR 🚫

@SGTStoner

Write Or Cut Grass?

Write 'Grass', the long awaited sequel to 'Lorna Doone'

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Write Or Cut Grass?

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