Forum: Editors/Reviewers Hangout

1. ain't tends, not necessarily, to be regional, but when used it only means 'am not'.

That ain't right ;)

AJ

"Ain't" can crop up almost anywhere in the US, but you don't hear it that much outside of either black ghetto speak or the former Confederate states.

I ain't so sure about that.

I suspect you can include most areas of America that are rural in this as well, not just those areas that were victims of the War of Northern Aggression. Those of us who are a bit older and remember Wally and Beaver recall them using ain't.

Now, if you want to really make it negative, then I cain't hep ya. (cannot help you, as translation for those on here from other parts of the globe).

Now, if you want to really make it negative

Bain't hard! (UK dialect)

AJ

Bain't hard! (UK dialect)

Then again, Baint seems to always be hard (which is why we keep him away from our sisters!).

shouldn't dictionary definitions of 'idiomatic' be?

I googled "what's an idiom?" and the first result was a definition which said:

a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogs, see the light ).

a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogs, see the light ).

I chanced upon a heated discussion of whether a single word could be an idiom. Personally I thought the putative examples of single word idioms were very stretchy. Most dictionaries seem to specify 'group of words', although a few extend to single words too.

Dictionaries seem to struggle for a satisfactory definition of idiomatic. 'Having a meaning other than the literal one' and 'not deducible from the individual words' seem to address the issue from different angles.

I think there's an evolutionary process whereby original meanings get perverted as slang which then become respectable idioms until finally they're fully-fledged dictionary definitions qualifying as literal. So there's always going to be arguments about exactly which expressions qualify as idioms.

AJ

I googled "what's an idiom?" and the first result was a definition which said:

a group of words established by usage as having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words (e.g., rain cats and dogs, see the light ).

I agree with that, as an 'idiom' is more closely tied to analogies than to regional differences in word usages.

@Dominions Son

Non regionally the use of ain't tends to be confined to those living in poverty, inner-city blacks, poor white trash, etc...

Sorta, but historically, the word entered 'black' usage when large groups of blacks emigrated to the northern cities (Chicago, Philadelphia and New York) during the endemic lynchings in the South), so that usage is intrinsically tied to their Southern heritage.

My use of 'your' is idiomatic.

Are you sure about that?

I do the same thing, using "your" as a genetic "us" in hypothetical statements. Unfortunately, as I moved around the U.S. picking up a variety of different words from different areas in my youth, I'm unsure where (which part of the country) it originates from.

And as for any outstanding issues, I'm out of here.

You've always been 'out of here' (i.e. "Out there!"). 'D

to make it clear the person is singing (i.e. separating it from their dialogue surrounding it)

While being careful to limit the amount of song in the story (copyright consideration) I present the words of the song as if it's a block quotation to separate it from normal dialogue.

While being careful to limit the amount of song in the story (copyright consideration) I present the words of the song as if it's a block quotation to separate it from normal dialogue.

That's useful too, but since I use the same blockquote technique for broadcast messages (where the message isn't from someone present and thus isn't dialogue, that might imply the song they're listening too is playing on the radio, rather than the main character singing it aloud. Adding the single musical note to the start of each line/paragraph is enough to highlight they're singing as opposed to merely reciting the lines.

Here's a copy from my currently posting book where I use both techniques (though, somehow, the musical symbols got deleted, probably because one of my outlets wouldn't support the non-html coding):

"Just let me know before anyone passes out," Al cautioned. Meanwhile, he started everyone on a chant.

"♫ I don't know but I been told

"Inquisitor dicks are freezin' cold!

"Sound off one, two.

"Sound off three, four."

Of course, with Woodham repeating the cadence several moments later in a larger, bellowing voice which traveled farther, they were attracting more and more attention. However, Betty, Lamar and Mui were there, running in a sidewise step, encouraging them to join in.

"You can't say that!" Tillthilf insisted.

"♫ I don't know but I been told

"Tillthilf is a cowardly scold!"

Everyone besides Tillthilf found the lyrics incredibly funny, though many were searching for disapproving officials anywhere around them.

I hope you explain what the symbol is for at the start of the story, because I wouldn't understand what you mean if I was to simply come across it within the text. However, for that bit of work I'd do it more like this:

"Just let me know before anyone passes out," Al cautioned. Meanwhile, he started everyone on a chant by singing:

"I don't know but I've been told,
Inquisitor dicks are freezin' cold!
Sound off one, two.
Sound off three, four."

Of course, with Woodham repeating the cadence several moments later in a larger, bellowing voice which traveled farther, they were attracting more and more attention. However, Betty, Lamar and Mui were there, running in a sidewise step, encouraging them to join in.

"You can't say that!" Tillthilf insisted.

"I don't know, but I've been told,
Tillhilf is a cowardly scold!"

Everyone besides Tillthilf found the lyrics incredibly funny, though many were searching for disapproving officials anywhere around them.

......................

In coding for the above in html I'd use the < b r > command (spaces added) after each of the first three lines of the singing. The layout and italics shows it's more than the normal dialogue while the the last 2 words of the first section of narrative ensure the reader understands the situation and it sets them up to know the italic dialogue like that is singing. I'd also tend to restate the singing after a long break of no singing.

In coding for the above in html I'd use the < b r > command (spaces added) after each of the first three lines of the singing. The layout and italics shows it's more than the normal dialogue while the the last 2 words of the first section of narrative ensure the reader understands the situation and it sets them up to know the italic dialogue like that is singing. I'd also tend to restate the singing after a long break of no singing.

Late response, but … that's what I do. Whenever something stands out (like messages, broadcast messages or groups singing), I'll either indent it (blockquote) and/or separate it with blank line (in my published books, I use the smallest support font size in an empty line, just so you know it's not the normal narrative or regular dialogue.

However, since I write so much sci-fi and internal dialogue, I tend to reserve italics for special circumstances (personal thoughts of, if in single quotes, telepathic messages). Thus using italics for something as simple as song lyrics might be misleading. :(

I'td be better to use the Unicode symbols than Windows-specific

Do you know, or is there even, a Unicode musical symbol? In most instances, to use musical symbols you need a separate specialty font, and then require licensing and protections. With a Windows symbol, you can always code it as "charset=windows-1252", so it'll display the Windows specific characters regardless of which OS it's on (as it's supported by all browsers and the ebooks which borrow the common browser standards).

It's what allows websites developed on MS Windows systems to run on Mac and the older BE and other systems.