Now something i'd like a little input on is what is the most outlandish thing you've ever heard of a religious group doing? I'm mostly interested in western religions in the U.S.
As an example one outlandish story i heard was a religious group stationed someone outside of this porn shop in some random place and started writing down license plate numbers. Then somehow from there they got addresses and sent cards to the ones who purchased things from this porn shop telling them to repent.
In fiction, or in real life?
The Branch Davidians come to mind. Or Jonestown.
Protesting at veterans funerals or abortion clinics seem to be favorites for a certain type.
Personally, I detest them all...but, we have to live with them.
Weaksauce.
In 1997, 39 members of the Heaven's Gate cult castrated themselves and committed mass suicide by consuming poison and putting plastic bags over their heads, while wearing identical outfits of a black shirt and sweatpants, black-and-white Nikes, and a "Heaven's Gate Away Team" armband, in order for their souls to board the UFO alleged to be following the Hale-Bopp comet.
I'm not going to say that's the most outlandish thing anyone's done in the name of religion, but it's sure a lot closer to the mark than harassing porn store patrons.
Outlandish in what way?
The Catholic Church going far out of their way to cover up the actions of their pedophile priests and obstruct the authorities attempting to prosecute them?
The various churches who were eventually revealed to be the largest and worst slum landlords in London?
The assorted tortures carried out by the Spanish Inquisition?
Issuing a death warrant on a cartoonist?
Issuing a death warrant on an author?
It isn't necessary to look at the small cults to find outlandish acts carried out by religious groups.
and obstruct the authorities attempting to prosecute them?
The tried to convince the victims and there parents in some cases not to report it in the first place (many victims never even told their parents). But I don't recall any cases in the US where they went so far as attempting to obstruct a police investigation / prosecution once started.
But I don't recall any cases in the US where they went so far as attempting to obstruct a police investigation / prosecution once started.
That's in progress of changing.
https://fox2now.com/2018/10/27/the-federal-investigation-of-the-catholic-church-what-we-know-so-far/
That's in progress of changing.
No, it's not, or at least that article you cite gives no indication that it is, or is going to change.
1. There have been some police investigations of individual cases in the US, but I've never heard of attempts by the church to obstruct those investigations.
2. That article indicates that the Catholic church in the US is cooperating with the investigation. It doesn't even hint at an attempt to obstruct.
No, it's not, or at least that article you cite gives no indication that it is, or is going to change.
1. There have been some police investigations of individual cases in the US, but I've never heard of attempts by the church to obstruct those investigations.
2. That article indicates that the Catholic church in the US is cooperating with the investigation. It doesn't even hint at an attempt to obstruct.
Think what you will; you have to look beyond just the link and research the background. By next year, you'll regret stating that publically. I'll be sure to come back to this date and post when the rest of the story hits.
By next year, you'll regret stating that publically
You apparently have no comprehension of what I said.
I did not actually say that it wouldn't change in the future.
All I said was that article does not support your contention that it either has changed or will change in the near future.
However, it seems unlikely that the FBI will find much that's prosecutable at the Federal level under current law.
1 The federal statute of limitations on child sexual abuse is 10 years. Most of the scandal previously involved adults claiming to have been abused by priests as children. Which is not to say that there aren't more recent cases to be discovered.
2. Cases of abuse by priests seem particularly unlikely to meet the explicit requirement for federal jurisdiction.
The federal statute on child sexual abuse ( https://www.lawserver.com/law/country/us/code/18_usc_2243 ) Contains an explicit jurisdiction clause. It requires the offense to have been committed in one of:
The Federal maritime jurisdiction.
Federal territorial jurisdiction which would be national parks/forests, military bases and other similar areas under direct federal control where state/local law has no jurisdiction.
Federal Prisons (or facilities holding federal prisoners on contract)
But I don't recall any cases in the US where they went so far as attempting to obstruct a police investigation / prosecution once started.
"Wuerl was bishop of Pittsburgh from 1988 to 2006 — a period covered by the blistering state grand jury report in August that found that more than 300 priests had been accused of having abused more than 1,000 children across Pennsylvania since the 1940s."
The report alleged that Roman Catholic Church leaders covered up the crimes and obstructed justice — specifically naming Wuerl as having allegedly concealed abuse by accepting the reassignment of priests who had been accused of abuse to other parishes.
Source
Also worth reading
The report alleged that Roman Catholic Church leaders covered up the crimes and obstructed justice — specifically naming Wuerl as having allegedly concealed abuse by accepting the reassignment of priests who had been accused of abuse to other parishes.
I don't recall this case in particular. It's an interesting read. However, the bit about obstruction of justice seems to be more hyperbole than substance.
There are other criminal statutes that can apply to efforts to conceal a crime, but (while I may well be wrong) my understanding is that obstruction of justice only applies to efforts to obstruct an active law enforcement investigation. The quoted section seems to be describing something that happened before law enforcement agencies got involved.
Do you know if they made any effort to actually try him on an obstruction charge?
Do you know if they made any effort to actually try him on an obstruction charge?
1. I don't specifically keep up with the US cases.
2. Those sources took 30 seconds and google.
3. I'm not your research assistant.
4. If you care, make the effort.
5. The despicable actions to hide their crimes and avoid being held responsible are world wide.
6. To date the only defence the catholic church has not used is AFAIK, is "Christ said; suffer the little children, so we did his bidding."
6. To date the only defence the catholic church has not used is AFAIK, is "Christ said; suffer the little children, so we did his bidding."
This is pretty much their theme song about it, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGTv53Y1xS8
(For those of you who are concerned about clicking on the link, it just goes to a simple song on YouTube is all, from one of the great classic hard rock singers.)
All of which proves (again) that no matter how egregious the offense, how corrupt the response, how inconsiderate of truth and honesty and justice, the body of true believers will ne'er be dissuaded from the path of loyal obeisance. They possess the one truth, the one light, the total assurance of right. They will kill to preserve it.
Applies with equal validity to religion or politics.
All of which proves (again) that no matter how egregious the offense, how corrupt the response, how inconsiderate of truth and honesty and justice, the body of true believers will ne'er be dissuaded from the path of loyal obeisance. They possess the one truth, the one light, the total assurance of right. They will kill to preserve it.
Applies with equal validity to religion or politics.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth"
The bold shall kill each other off.
The meek shall inherit the Earth
The meek are not egotistical enough to entertain the idea that they can 'inherit' the earth.
The meek are not egotistical enough to entertain the idea that they can 'inherit' the earth.
But everyone else will be dead, so they'll be stuck with it whether they want it or not.
"The meek shall inherit the Earth"
And as these words were spoken
I swear I hear the old man laughing,
'What good is a used-up world,
And how could it be worth having?'
"The meek shall inherit the Earth"
And what in the bloody 'ell does that have to do with what I said? My statement actually has been redefined in modern US society as 'tribalism,' and I'm thinking that a tribe of meek will inherit nothing other than increased irrelevance.
Seems it's become near impossible to be an innocent bystander in today's social arena. Save for Alzheimer's, being possibly a valid excuse. Death is the other but only with a certified certificate.
Save for Alzheimer's, being possibly a valid excuse.
I forgot about Alzheimer's
I swore off Asperger's
But I'm never alone with schizophrenia
But I'm never alone with schizophrenia
I think you are confusing schizophrenia with MPD.
Schizophrenia is an inability to deal with objective reality. MPD (Multiple Personality Disorders) give you company.
At least, that is what the voices tell me.
At least, that is what the voices tell me.
I was in two minds as to which to use, MPD lost and schizophrenia won. Or perhaps my little voices just prefer the old fashioned version? Who knows?
(They do, but sometimes they talk amongst themselves..!!)
Who knows?
The real worry is when you have a 6 ID MPD that takes a vote about doing something at it comes out at 4 to 6.
The real worry is when you have a 6 ID MPD that takes a vote about doing something at it comes out at 4 to 6.
Haaa..!!! Wait until they take a vote and refuse to tell you the result...!!!
Finally finding out ALWAYS occurs at the most inopportune times.
The real worry is when you have a 6 ID MPD that takes a vote about doing something at it comes out at 4 to 6.
What if one of the personalities is paranoid and things all the other personalities are out to get it?
The report alleged that Roman Catholic Church leaders covered up the crimes and obstructed justice — specifically naming Wuerl as having allegedly concealed abuse by accepting the reassignment of priests who had been accused of abuse to other parishes.
I was wondering if they were going with Mueller's interpretation of obstruction of justice, and it is dated 2019. So I would guess so.
AFAIK, that interpretation(/"Legal Theory") has never been tried in court to date, would be interesting to see how it plays out.
You need to be more specific. Religion has been used as a source of evil worldwide for all of written history and before. No known society or people's have been free of such influences.
This wasn't in the United States -- it happened in 897 -- but the Cadaver Synod comes to mind.
Basically, Pope Stephen VI exhumed the corpse of Pope Formosus to put him on trial for illegally trying to become pope. Developments at and after the trial were even more bizarre.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/morbid-monday-cadaver-synod
Black Jack
I don't know if that went on in other places but in Grand Rapids Michigan the Christian Reformed Church posted volunteers outside a well-known porn shop and did take LP numbers and post them in ads in the local paper.