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lbp861

It came out earlier this year. Human trader goes to alien planet to trade. Mysterious person gives him a map of uncharted space, meets alien teenage, and females go topless in the market. Thanks for all the help.

Replies:   madnige
MarissaHorne
Updated:

Fantasy Lover's A Terran Trader on Toolondo

https://storiesonline.net/s/14126/a-terran-trader-on-toolondo

Replies:   lbp861
lbp861

@MarissaHorne

Yes! Thanks.

madnige

@lbp861

a map of uncharted space


???

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@madnige

???


Charts are on paper, so, if he gave him an electronic maps it would fit, sort of.

Oyster

The question marks are in regards to there being a map of uncharted space which is a contradiction and an impossibility, unless the map just has a big grey area with "here there be dragons" on it.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Oyster

The question marks are in regards to there being a map of uncharted space which is a contradiction and an impossibility, unless the map just has a big grey area with "here there be dragons" on it.


Why do you imagine that a map of uncharted space is a contradiction or impossible.

While a map of stellar locations can be constructed by either radio or optical telescopes, the stars are themselves moving and evolving, so that such a map would be hundreds to thousands of years out of date for what an FTL star ship would need.

On top of that, there are all manner of things not readily picked up by telescopes that would be of interest to a star ship.

Planets (with information on the planet's composition and environment)

Potential hazards to navigation that would not be readily detectable by telescope, such as asteroid fields, small black holes (too young to have much of an accretion disk and other gravitational anomalies.

Replies:   Oyster  Crumbly Writer
Oyster
Updated:

@Dominions Son

Merriam Webster definition of "uncharted":

not recorded or plotted on a map, chart, or plan

Dictionary.com definition of "uncharted":
not shown or located on a map; unexplored; unknown, as a place or region:
the uncharted depths of space.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Oyster

Yes, and I gave a number of reasons why telescope data wouldn't be considered viable navigational chart data for an FTL space craft.

So perhaps you want to quibble over the definition of space next?

Replies:   Oyster
Oyster

@Dominions Son

No, since I just wanted to explain to Ernest Bywater that he missed the point of Madnige's (very short) comment, I'll just remove myself from this discussion and magnanimously agree to disagree with you.

Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

Why do you imagine that a map of uncharted space is a contradiction or impossible.

Duh! If it's unchartered, then there'd be no map, while if there's a map, then by definition, it's no longer unchartered. "Unchartered" literally means "never been entered onto a chart (because no one knows what's there)". Unchartered does not translate as "affected by shifting tides and governmental changes over time".

In the end, if a chart exists, in whatever form, then the space is chartered.

Replies:   Dominions Son
LonelyDad

IIRC the map was of regions of explored space unknown to Terra at the time. It was created by another race that had been starfarring for a good deal longer than the Terrans had.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@LonelyDad

IIRC the map was of regions of explored space unknown to Terra at the time. It was created by another race that had been starfarring for a good deal longer than the Terrans had.


This.

The stellar Map contained detailed charts for regions of space unknown to Earth, or many of the other neighboring space faring races as well. So for everyone else, except the MC, it was a map of "uncharted space" because it wasn't on any chart they had access to.

Which is where the dictionary definitions are incomplete and inaccurate as well. Of course, we're also talking about a group of largely North Americans (and Aussies) here who have grown up on historic tales of European Explorers bravely entering "Unexplored terrain" and "uncharted territory."

...Excpet for the fact that there often were humans already living in most of the places they ventured into, and THOSE humans were reasonably familiar with where they were. So while they may not have had proper maps of the place(and thus could rightfully be claimed as uncharted), they certainly weren't "unexplored" areas all the same.

So in that respect, "unexplored" and "uncharted" is a relative term.

Heck even Star Trek Voyager made a play on that too, although they were perhaps a bit too subtle on their journey through "uncharted space" ... which often took them through large interstellar civilizations. Rest assured, that space had probably been charted for quite some time, those charts just didn't happen to exist in Starfleet's database.

"This isn't unexplored space. This is my home. You're talking crazy talk."

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Duh! If it's unchartered, then there'd be no map, while if there's a map, then by definition, it's no longer unchartered. "Unchartered" literally means "never been entered onto a chart (because no one knows what's there)".


My point is that there are a great many reasons why telescope data wouldn't be adequate for FTL star ship navigation charts, so areas where we only have Telescope data count as uncharted.

Unchartered does not translate as "affected by shifting tides and governmental changes over time".


True, but shifting tides don't move the shoreline by any appreciable amount, so they aren't the equivalent of the impact of stellar motion on FTL start ship navigation vs telescope data.

Governmental changes over time isn't equivalent to any of the factor I mentioned either.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Dominions Son


My point is that there are a great many reasons why telescope data wouldn't be adequate for FTL star ship navigation charts, so areas where we only have Telescope data count as uncharted.


I'm familiar with that concept (it plays a significant role in my "Not-Quite Human" series), though including difficulties in managing space tend to make for incredibly slow stories (space travel is best avoided, for the most part, though discussions of the complications are fair game).


shifting tides don't move the shoreline by any appreciable amount, so they aren't the equivalent of the impact of stellar motion on FTL start ship navigation vs telescope data.


No, but the older shipping charts didn't specify how to access the various ports, as many weren't accessible during certain tides/conditions, which is applicable to your case. In many instances, navigators would need to approach from different directions during certain times of year (a slight exaggeration, but you get my drift).

"Governmental changes" is more akin with showing up, expecting a hospitable welcome, only to face armed resistance, a not uncommon difficult of the time.

However, given the "unchartered by Human" qualifications, I'll rescind my objection to the "chart of uncharted territories".

lbp861

In this case, for humans, space was uncharted since they did not know about it. However, the map that was obtained, had charted space unknown by some of the races. Hence, uncharted map.

Or did I just step into a discussion that I should have kept my nose out of.....?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@lbp861

Or did I just step into a discussion that I should have kept my nose out of.....?

No, you're welcome to join in, but that point has already been settled. We were just initially caught up in the definition.

Jay Cantrell

For Christ's sake, 90 percent of every topic in this section is an off-topic screed by a few pedants.

Make it "space uncharted by his race" and get on with your lives.

Taking a questioner to task for a word choice is immature and impolite.

And please, feel free to do an exact calculation on the off-topic percentages so a topic might get more than two replies before being hijacked!

Grant

@Jay Cantrell

And please, feel free to do an exact calculation on the off-topic percentages so a topic might get more than two replies before being hijacked!

Welcome to the internet.

awnlee jawking

@Jay Cantrell

For Christ's sake


Although he and his dad and the holy ghost made the universe, do you think they charted it? ;)

AJ

red61544

Is there anything so trivial that we can't argue about?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@red61544

Is there anything so trivial that we can't argue about?


No. Wanna argue about it? :)

Crumbly Writer

@Jay Cantrell

Taking a questioner to task for a word choice is immature and impolite.

Most of the time, we take each other to task for using the wrong language, mainly since authors/editors are a very pedantic bunch (it's our jobs). In this case, we were trying to clarify his request to understand it. Once we figured out what he was referring to, the answer arrived. (Not quite an apology, but ... :(

LonelyDad

And sometimes we just want to indulge ourselves in the well known penchant nerds have for juvenile puns and jokes. Mea culpea. ;-)

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