Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

There's a series on one of the channels (a pay channel, I think) called The Plot Against America. It involves Lindberg running against FDR way back when. The story is based on a novel by Philip Roth.
Some of my family was watching the first episode of the series, and I joined in. Not bad. I decided to read the book itself. So far, not good.
I've only gotten so far as the first chapter, which mostly seems to be an information dump with paragraphs a million words each and boring descriptions of the land, the house, the town, the family - but nothing happening. In the first episode of the series, stuff happens.
If you wish to look, I believe the free sample on Amazon contains most of what I've read so far.
Though I have published nothing myself, it seems to me that Roth's writing is exactly what authors on SOL warn against - it seems to be tell don't show; it seems to be an information dump, very little or no dialogue. If Philip Roth does everything wrong, why do his books sell? Or is it me misreading Roth or misunderstanding the point of authors on SOL?

First, I don't think a comparison with video mediums (TV, movies) and books is fair.

With a visual medium, the viewer can see the scenery at the same time as the action.

With a book either the narrator takes the time to describe it, or it doesn't exist.

In my opinion a book that is all action and dialog devoid of any context of setting or scenery would be every bit as flat and uninteresting as the "information dump with paragraphs a million words each and boring descriptions of the land, the house, the town, the family - but nothing happening".

it seems to me that Roth's writing is exactly what authors on SOL warn against - it seems to be tell don't show; it seems to be an information dump, very little or no dialogue.

Or is it me misreading Roth or misunderstanding the point of authors on SOL?

I think it's a little of both. "Show don't tell" applies to things you can't directly see, character emotions for example, it does not apply to scenery. How do you "show" a tree in a written story other than to describe what it looks like?

A landscape painting rendered in words is not a story, but a story is not complete without scenery.

There needs to be balance and what you describe is unbalanced, a landscape painting reduced to words.

As to why his books sell if they are like that? There is an audience for almost anything you can imagine. A market even for the verbal landscape painting.

I took a look at what's available on Amazon. You are not misscharacterizing it to call it an info dump.

However, keep in mind it's both historical fiction and an alternate history specifically involving politics, and it occurs in a pivotal historical moment.

With such a story it is necessary to solidly establish the time and place and the mood of the general public at the start of the story, especially for readers not old enough to have lived through the real history themselves.

I don't read a lot of those kinds of stories, but for those who do, a bit of info dump may be expected and considered necessary.

my opinion only...the big thing with zane grey was his description...you could put yourself right in the scene...

first time I've heard of Roth

You probably have heard of Rothschild. Banking and very rich.

.

I don't know your age but Roth was hugely popular beginning in the 1960s and continuing for the next 40 years.

The Plot Against America was published in 2004. By that time Roth would have to include lots of details, based on the (well justified) concern that a lot of readers would think Lindberg was the guy who invented smelly cheese.

Lindberg was the guy who invented smelly cheese.

Or he manufactured baby food. (Lindberg baby would still be a term many would know, and possibly confuse sith Gerber baby.)

The Gerber baby was a Sith Lord?

Damn spellwreck

Being as you're Australian, you might be interested in this article.
https://www.afr.com/politics/philip-roth-don-chipp-and-the-novel-that-broke-australias-censors-20180524-h10h6c

Portnoy's Complaint was a major best seller in Australia - I guess you missed the part where it stated that it sold "like hot cakes" in the article.

Or this one:

"In 1969 the Australian government had announced it would ban the critically acclaimed Portnoy's Complaint, which had sold 400,000 copies in the UK and the US its first year, eclipsing The Godfather.

Penguin's non-fiction editor John Hooker came up with the idea to sell the book, at the risk of fines and jail time.

The publisher was fighting for the future of its industry, Mr Mullins says, with concerns about the censors' limiting role and "idealistic about the role literature could play".

In 1970, Penguin's finance manager, Peter Froelich, arranged for 75,000 copies of the book to be printed in Australia illegally by Halstead Press, then owned by Gordon Barton.

"Barton's view was that they had to do it, that their reputation would suffer if they allowed the police to tell them what books they printed and what books they did not," Mr Mullins says.

Mr Froelich also planned for the books to be quickly distributed from the secret warehouse where they were printed to stores around Australia, to make sure they weren't seized by police.

Michie confessed his plans to then-customs minister Don Chipp, who threatened to jail him, though the minister was a strong advocate for the reform of censorship laws.

But 75,000 copies were printed anyway. They sold out within two weeks.

"This is at a time when selling 10,000 copies of a book in a year is enough to make it a bestseller," Mr Mullins says.


"But of course the police swoop as well."

That's from your ABC news:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-01/penguin-portnoys-complaint-helped-topple-censorship-system/12379058

Also another video from ABC (yours) about Roth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42dlmO9elo&list=UL81_UzhODuCw