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Sleepwalker forced situations rant (spoilers)

Sl

I'm currently reading Sleepwalker by Shadow of Moonlite, and I just got so frustrated that I had to write a little rant. I've currently read 48 chapters in, the chapter where MC and Angela goes on a date.
First of all, a minor situation in the beginning, where the mother is talking to MC and his sister about their relationship and says it's fine for now but if Allison ever wants to have kids they can't have them with each other, the only option is to split up or maybe adopt a kid. Now I am no expert on incest, all my knowledge about it comes from other stories on this site more or less, but in all other incest stories I remember, it's always been the case that incest birth defects are mostly a myth, as long as both the parents are healthy. I said that this was a minor issue because I don't really know the facts, and this story might be the one that got it right, but it felt more like a setup for relationship drama between MC and Allison. I mean, means like artificial insemination were not even mentioned, even if they biologicaly can't have a kid together, they wouldn't have to split up because Allsion wants to carry one herself.

Now the second issue I have, and this is what made me snap and write this rant, is the part where Angela wants to thank MC for getting her together with her brother. First of all, if you want to thank your friend (who you don't love, and you know that he's happily in love with 2 girls he's in a steady relationship with), you don't potenially ruin his relationship by trying to have him cheat on them. Because that's what she's doing, she hasn't talked to either Allison or Shannon to come to some sort of understanding before trying to get together with him. It really ticks me off that she's doing something that would potentially ruin the relationship with the loves of his life because she's feeling grateful. She has no idea that Allison would be okay with MC 'saying you're welcome' when she's 'thanking him'. So the point is that this situation shouldn't even exist, unless Angela is a very egocentric person, which until now I didn't have the impression that she was.
Then we have how everyone else is reacting to this situation. Everyone (his mom, Allison, Bob, Shannon) is acting like he has no choice in the matter. They all say it would be reaaaally bad if he rejected her, almost as if it would be traumatic, that someone as beautiful as her would never be rejected by someone like him. He's in a relationship with 2 women he really love, he has every right to say no, and she has no right at all to expect him to respond to her advances. Most people that are in a loving relationship are 'off the market' and wouldn't sleep with someone else, even if she's a model. Yet everyone seems to expect real bad consequences for her if he would reject her, when in reality she should have no reason to expect him to agree to sleep with her. Then we have the fact that Allison was alright with him sleeping with her 'to say you're welcome'. Yet when they where in her car he said that he didn't want to sleep with her because she felt obliged to. Eventually she agrees and say she doesn't want to fuck him, but they want to make love to each other, and not because of any obligations.

So to sum it up I found this whole sequence really odd:
* The situation shouldn't even exist because no friend would ask him to do what she wants to do with him.
* Everyone seems to believe it's perfectly natural and acceptable for her to sleep with him as thanks for some advice, there are no other ways she could thank him at all that's concidered.
* Even though the reason Allison gave him that said it was ok with him sleeping with her, to accept her thanks, MC refuse to do that and tells her that he will only sleep with her because both of them wants it. This really came out of the blue since MC seems to be perfectly happy with Allison and Shannon, and should really have no reason to sleep with Angela, and then he himself removes the one reason that Allison has given him, but still wants to sleep with her.

Also, I really hope Tim won't be 'thanking' Allison while Angela is 'thanking' MC. Other than my complaints in my rant, I've really liked this story but the thing I hate the most in erotic stories is swinging. The story doesn't have the swinging tag, so I hope it won't come to that, but it wouldn't be the first time such tags are omitted from the story description.

I don't really expect a discussion about this, I'm just really frustrated at this whole scene that is so unnatural and out of place, so I had to write off my thoughts on the matter. English is not my first language, apologies about all my grammatic and spelling errors.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Sl


incest birth defects are mostly a myth


From "Psychology Today" https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest


The problem with having sex close with relatives is that there is an astonishingly high chance that your offspring will be born with a serious birth defect.

awnlee jawking

@Switch Blayde

Worrying that the author produces cites for his early facts then states the 'bombshell' finding without a cite. I'd like to know the methodology and population sizes for the study he quotes because, to me, 50% sounds seems unlikely.

NHS statistics prove the problems of marrying first or second cousins amongst the Asian immigrant communities so I have no doubt it's a problem. Yet the current stigma against incest appears to be a recent development (perhaps in line with advances in medical knowledge) as incest was common in many human societies, particularly amongst the upper classes. That's how the UK ended up with a royal family blighted by half-wits and mental illnesses.

AJ

Wheezer

Brother/sister incest carries a 1 in 4 risk that any child will be afflicted with any genetic disorder for which both siblings carry the gene.

1st cousin incest carries only a slightly higher risk that that of random strangers.

2nd cousins are no more at risk than any other random couple.
The taboo against cousin marriage is mostly cultural.

http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask243

Dominions Son

@Wheezer

Brother/sister incest carries a 1 in 4 risk that any child will be afflicted with any genetic disorder for which both siblings carry the gene.


Of course, you have to multiply that by the probability that any random pair of siblings are both carrying a gene for some genetic disorder. Most of which can be tested for in advance now.

Incest has no higher chance of producing random mutations than any other couple.

awnlee jawking

@Wheezer

2nd cousins are no more at risk than any other random couple.


Except in the UK apparently, where it's widely practised by Asian immigrant communities and the resultant health issues cause significant problems for the NHS.

"The detrimental health effects associated with consanguinity are caused by the expression of rare, recessive genes inherited from a common ancestor(s). The genetic influence in marriages between couples related beyond second cousins differs only slightly from that observed in the general population."

https://doctor.ndtv.com/faq/is-it-safe-to-marry-my-second-cousin-12127

AJ

sunkuwan

The problem with all those Incest between siblings increases birth defects by xx% is, that the initial figure is low. When a normal relationship produces a risk of 3% of birth defects, double that with incest looks bad, but only is 6% overall, in the end.

The problem with the monarchies of the 18th to 20th centuries was the incest in succession. If you can only trace back your ancestry to 4! great-grandparents, you are in for a bad day. (War of Spanish succession)

Maria Theresa of Austria was called the Mother-in-law of Europe. Many of her daughters married into the royal houses of Europe. That made issues in the 19th century when those royal houses married again because of alliances and status.
Maria Theresa and her husband, Francis I, Holy Roman Emperor, had eleven daughters, including the Queen of France, the Queen of Naples and Sicily, the Duchess of Parma, and five sons, including two Holy Roman Emperors, Joseph II and Leopold II. Of the sixteen children, ten survived to adulthood.

It brought down many kingdoms.

Spain:
Charles II of Spain: the last Habsburg King
When Charles II died, he was physically disabled, mentally retarded, and disfigured. He had a tongue so large that it was difficult for him to speak or be understood. Completely bald at the age of 35, Charles died impotent, senile, and burdened with epileptic seizures. Based on centuries of genealogical records of the Spanish Habsburg family, this is what can happen following 16 generations of inbreeding.
Intermarrying to Preserve Their Pedigree
Spain reached the height of its power in Europe under Spanish Habsburg rule. In order to maintain their royal heritage, the Spanish Habsburgs began to intermarry among themselves. For approximately 200 years, most of their marriages were between blood relatives, including first cousins and uncles and nieces. For instance, Charles' mother was his father's niece—and his grandmother was also his aunt.

Germany:
it isn't really known if Frederik III. died because of incest problems, most likely explanation was his heavy smoking but his successor, Wilhelm II. had a deformed hand.

Russia. All the children of the last Tsar had problems, many had the Blood sickness from Queen Victoria.

Replies:   Dominions Son
sunkuwan

Also for the Story itself: It was good, but ends in a cliffhanger after the first trilogy.

Dominions Son

@sunkuwan

this is what can happen following 16 generations of inbreeding.


Yes, repetitive inbreeding can be a huge problem.

First generation inbreeding has much less risk unless there are already known genetic issues in the family history.

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

incest birth defects are mostly a myth

From "Psychology Today" https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

The problem with having sex close with relatives is that there is an astonishingly high chance that your offspring will be born with a serious birth defect.

Generally, the problem with incest isn't direct with the couple themselves, but with how strong their genetics are to begin with. Incest tends to strengthen any genetic weaknesses that already exist, so having a couple to several incestuous generations would be highly problematic, as would having an incestuous birth if there are known genetic problem.

Chances are, if the mother is warning them, she knows of genetic problems which she isn't being forthcoming about ("You really shouldn't do this, (because of Aunt Jane and Uncle Fred)).

However, is most cases, with families frequently bringing in new mates from outside the immediate community, there shouldn't be a problem.

Replies:   Capt. Zapp
Capt. Zapp

@Crumbly Writer

Incest tends to strengthen any genetic weaknesses that already exist...


By the same account, shouldn't it strengthen any positive genetic traits?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Capt. Zapp

By the same account, shouldn't it strengthen any positive genetic traits?


Yes, which is why successful animal breeders use it in a careful and controlled fashion.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

Or, in the case of dog breeders, breed animals doomed to a life of pain and ill health :(

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Or, in the case of dog breeders, breed animals doomed to a life of pain and ill health


While many dog breeds are vulnerable to certain health conditions, dogs from responsible breeders don't have it nearly as bad as you suggest.

There are however, far too many irresponsible and/or careless dog breeders. Pure breed and "designer" cross breed puppies draw high enough prices to draw the greedy and unscrupulous.

moredrowsy
Updated:

@Sl

I haven't read the story but in general, a lot of stories in storiesonline that involve harem tend to go down the path of wacky logic.

This is why I tend stay away from harem stories because in general, it just doesn't make sense no matter how the author weaves it. But, it is a lot fun reading some well written ones.

There's some author that does harem stories well, like Opus One by Ryan Sylander (but the ending seems to set up a sequel, if there ever will be, with swinging), or Aftermath by Al Steiner. The harem situation (and swinging outside the main character pairings) in Al Steiner's Aftermath makes a lot of sense due to the post-apocalyptic setting.

Lubrican's incest and harem stories are well done too, mainly due to his comedic commentaries poking fun at his own logic for incest and harem. Lol.

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