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Coming of Age and political correctness bull crap.

willstories ๐Ÿšซ

First out of the gate, I am a progressive leaning person, so my issue with political correctness is that sometimes it goes a little too far and gets too damn annoying.

That being said, I love coming of age of stories, it is a way of living through my formative years all over again in a fun way.

However, I almost always give up on the longer stories around here because they get too over the top with the conscience of the teens actions. It gets too polite and thoughtful, it eliminates the whole trial and error thing of being a teenager.

For example, I really enjoyed most of aroslav - Living Next Door to Heaven but no teenager in the face of earth is that polite and conscious of other people's feelings and that just ruins the experience for me.

I could go on regarding many stories like this, they have great ideas but they feel so out of touch of how real teenagers act, EVEN the most polite ones.

I hope I am not the only one, and that people can point me towards more "real" coming of age stories.

Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@willstories

I hope I am not the only one, and that people can point me towards more "real" coming of age stories.

You can try my series A Well-Lived Life, Climbing the Ladder, and Good Medicine.

The first one starts at age 13; the latter two at age 18, but with significant interactions with other teens.

About 12 million words so far.

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider ๐Ÿšซ

@Michael Loucks

Like Michael Loucks, I'll vote for my own Coming of Age story, "A Charmed Life."

https://storiesonline.net/s/30692/a-charmed-life-by-the-outsider/i

https://storiesonline.net/a/the-outsider

willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

Thanks for your recommendations.

I just wished you know if I am the only one annoyed with this out of touch approach.

Replies:   sunseeker
sunseeker ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

no you're not...sadly it's a reflection of real life and annoys the crap outta me...I started ranting but deleted it all lol

SunSeeker

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

That's a symptom of the wider problem of the author endowing their school age characters with a middle-aged person's experience and knowledge. Would a kid in small town USA really have a world-class knowledge of gastronomy? Would they really be able to become world-class sexperts based on experiences with an older mentor and/or watching porn videos?

AJ

Replies:   akarge  willstories
akarge ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Would a kid in small town USA really have a world-class knowledge of gastronomy?

Sure. Teenagers know everything. Just ask them.

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

@akarge

Sure. Teenagers know everything. Just ask them.

That is actually part of concept behind my current story. At the start, he's 18 and sure he has it all figured out and knows better than anybody else.

And a lot of it has been him coming to realize that is not the case at all. And that many of the preconceptions he had about life at the start were beaten out of him by real life.

willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

That is my point, THANK YOU!

It ruins the whole reading for me, because they forget that they were once crappy teenagers.

And that they would swear and do stupid things to get girls. But all the coming of age stories seem to be focused on really nice guys getting a harem (which I get that is the authors projection of their teenage years), but is not believable at all.

Replies:   awnlee jawking  Lumpy
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

But all the coming of age stories seem to be focused on really nice guys getting a harem (which I get that is the authors projection of their teenage years), but is not believable at all.

Absolutely - the bad boys get all the girls. At the local school, a certain boy was known as 'the stud' because he got seven fellow pupils pregnant.

AJ

Lumpy ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

As someone who writes coming of age stories about teens, I'll tell you if you write them making stupid teenager mistakes, being at times nieve, you get a lot of emails about "how can he be so dumb" and the like.

It's a tough line to walk.

Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@Lumpy

As someone who writes coming of age stories about teens, I'll tell you if you write them making stupid teenager mistakes, being at times nieve, you get a lot of emails about "how can he be so dumb" and the like.

It's a tough line to walk.

This! I receive far more 'How can he be so dumb?' comments about the MC in AWLL than complaints about him acting 'too old'.

sunseeker ๐Ÿšซ

@Lumpy

you get a lot of emails about "how can he be so dumb" and the like

cause people don't want to remember, be reminded, or think about all the dumb, stupid shit they did when they were young/younger! Lol.

Me, I'm still paying the consequences of all the dumb, stupid shit I did when younger and older, so I'm reminded every day lol! At least I can laugh a little bit about it...

SunSeeker

Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

@Lumpy

As someone who writes coming of age stories about teens, I'll tell you if you write them making stupid teenager mistakes, being at times nieve, you get a lot of emails about "how can he be so dumb" and the like.

Same here, but when I start on a story, I tend to give them all behaviors and a backstory that may or may not even be seen in the story itself.

Case in point, for "Country Boy, City Girl" I selected some basic characteristics for Pete and Linda. Pete was a Polyanna/Candide character, and was largely oblivious to many things around him. And Linda, she was a virgin slut. Which is where a lot of the early story came from, his being oblivious to all of her machinations, and her staying (most times) just inside their rules so she can hook up with others, and still stay with him.

And a hell of a lot that he was completely oblivious too was finally shoved in his face later in the story.

And it is a tough line to walk. I actually was filling out little notes for myself to explain what Linda was doing "off camera" so to say, and finally just wrote it out as a companion piece from her point of view.

Replies:   willstories
willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@Mushroom

I like your writing style, I don't know why I stopped reading "Country Boy, City Girl".

Probably got busy and forgot where I was, now I have to start all over again.

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

Well, it has gone a long ways past where it originally started. With over a dozen stories now.

And I am starting to come to a close on one involving Pete's younger brother set many years later (early 2000s). Who is in many ways an "Anti-Pete". Brash, opinionated, and more than a bit of an asshole. Who much like Linda got smacked around by life as the story progresses. But was a lot of fun, as I got to bring back a much more mature and "adult" Linda who in many ways became his mentor (along with a still drug using Keith who was still a struggling musician).

willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@Lumpy

I understand, however it is kind of weird to be honest.

Let's use pop culture as an example. No teenager acts the way they do in Euphoria, or at least not the average teenager.

And I understand that it is a tough line and it is difficult to please everyone.

But acting dumb is one thing, or overtly dumb. However, overly politely or sensitive is quite different and not necessarily opposite. You can act dumb and too politely at the same time.

My issue is with the whole, "may I please touch your breasts" scenes. No one does that when they are horny, specially no teenager.

Verbal consent to everything is not a daily thing and it is not hot, at all.
Also, overly thoughtful acts and speeches, even the best teenagers I know are not that deep.

I hope you get my point

Replies:   tendertouch
tendertouch ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

My issue is with the whole, "may I please touch your breasts" scenes. No one does that when they are horny, specially no teenager.

Sorry, but I certainly did that. I remember when I finally got to touch a girl's breasts for the first time pretty vividly, and I definitely asked because I didn't want to push her. Turned out I was going to slowly for her....

Replies:   willstories
willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@tendertouch

Yeah, and that is exactly how YOU DO NOT end up with harem.

I used to do some stupid shit like that, girls just found me kinda lame or afraid to take action.

Replies:   John Brave
John Brave ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@willstories

I used to do some stupid shit like that, girls just found me kinda lame or afraid to take action.

Exactly. I learned that lesson early.

Growing up in a world location that still didn't go through a sexual revolution (even to this day), I was 14 in the early 70s. At the time there was a local lake where my uncle operated speed boats that gave tourists exhilarating tours of the lake for a certain fee.

My uncle taught me to swim and he and I were known to be the two strongest swimmers in the area.

One time, a group of people including teen girls came to the lake to swim and have a fun day. I was doing nothing at the time, just tanning on the floating dock next to the boat, I was approached by a couple of the girls pretending to want me to teach them swimming.

I agreed and we got in the water and I stared teaching them how to float and keep their faces in the water and stuff like that, the way I was taught how to swim.

They would make mistakes and I would help them by having them lay over my arms to help them start and then I would remove my arms from under them and have them kick the water, etc...

I was doing it respectfully and was being proper. When they would be supported by my hands, my hands would be under their bellies and the middle of their thighs.

They gave up after 15 minutes or so each, and went back to their group.

Later on, I was under the floating dock fixing stuff and I was there for at least an hour. At one points that group of girls were sitting on the dock within earshot from me. A girl asked the other two how was the experience of "learning to swim" was.

The two girls expressed disappointment and it turned out that they were hoping to get groped by me. They described me with something similar to 'lame' and 'coward' and that my looks were deceiving. I was fairly tall, muscular from handling the physical work and swimming, and was definitely tanned and later in life found out that women found me quite attractive. The two girls said that I "amounted to nothing".

So from that day on, anytime girls asked for lessons or anything like that, I made sure to grope them. Instead of having my hands supporting their bellies and their thighs, I made sure that my hands were under their breast and pussies. I have never had one get off my arm or complain. They would blush and smile and continue on with the lesson. It happened tens of times.

Later on when I migrated to the west, in relationships, multiple women expressed one important feeling. They wanted a strong man that took what he wanted without asking permission. To a significant majority of the women that I dated, I was told, sometimes straight out and sometimes as hints that they were turned on by my action. They wanted to be taken. Four separate women explicitly said that their biggest turn on is when "You come in, flip me over and stick it in." One of them was "Come, push me down and stick it in my ass."

The consent rules that they now have in the west taught in academia serve nothing more than to dampen the sex life of their targets and frustrate them.

My long experience says that a lot of women want to experience sexual adventures while maintaining plausible deniability.

I've had one female employee give me signals of availability, like long looks into her cleavage, short skirts, light physical touches, etc... If I asked her if she wanted to do something she would always say no. So I learned that she wanted to be manhandled. I would grab her and she would say a very week no, and then participate very enthusiastically after.

Women want to do sexual stuff, but they want to maintain that they're pure, prim, proper, whatever you want to call it. So by 'being taken' they have the self mental justification that they're not slutty or easy.

Replies:   John Demille
John Demille ๐Ÿšซ

@John Brave

My long experience says that a lot of women want to experience sexual adventures while maintaining plausible deniability.

That has been my experience too.

A majority of women that I was ever sexual with got turned on by being manhandled.

The first western girlfriend that I had in the early 90s would only give me sex when I was good (means obedient) and would deny sex whenever I did anything she deemed wrong.

After a while, the relationship became too one-sided and I was ready to exit.

Once you're ready to leave, you don't care anymore.

So one day, while she was doing the dishes, I simply came from behind her, I had a hard on, so I simply pulled her tights and underwear down and pushed her lower back forward to angle her ass better and basically 'shoved it in'.

Not a peep. She didn't complain. She held onto the countertop and let me fuck her roughly. She orgasmed faster than usual.

From that day on I took her whenever I felt like it. Never asked permission. Simply grabbed her, made out a little and then fucked her. She never failed to orgasm.

Yeah, asking for explicit permission is for betas.

Women respond very positively to strong, assertive males.

Replies:   Big Ed Magusson
Big Ed Magusson ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@John Demille

One note of caution: not all women respond positively.

A good alpha male learns to read the secondary signs (body language) etc. to know whether a particular woman wants to be just taken or if she wants to be asked. He doesn't assume.

My own observation is that what women want is confidence. The guy who's self-confident and communicates that energy will get laid far more often. Whether he asks or doesn't ask is secondary. There's a huge difference between "um, uh, um, can, I, uh, touch you?" and "Hey babe. We're going back to my place and I am going to rock your world. Sound good?"

In both cases, the guy asked. But the energy and tone are completely different.

Back to the original topic--the challenge in a story is that few teenagers have figured this out. I didn't until my early 30's. Most teens can't read body language etc. well enough to know if consent is there, and if you go non-consent, a lot of people like me won't read your story at all.

Replies:   willstories
willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@Big Ed Magusson

A good alpha male learns to read the secondary signs (body language) etc. to know whether a particular woman wants to be just taken or if she wants to be asked. He doesn't assume.

This is exactly what I miss from most stories, you don't have to be verbal

Comedy ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

Kind of curious what the specific examples are.

Replies:   willstories
willstories ๐Ÿšซ

@Comedy

What do you mean? Quotes from the stories?

Replies:   Comedy
Comedy ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

Not necessarily quotes, but what decisions took you out of these stories. You describe it as 'political correctness' then specify that no-one is that considerate of other people's feelings. That doesn't say much about what you consider a bridge too far. Particularly, when emotional maturity/consideration of others is on a scale to begin with; so I'm just trying to gauge where that line is with you.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

I guess it's a fine line. If you were 100% true to life, it would just be a rehash of all the mistakes and angst of the teenage years, and nobody wants to go thru that again, unless your story has signs that there might be a different outcome.

I've always thought that if I ever were offered a "do-over", I wouldn't accept it unless I could somehow do 4 years in the USMC before high school. Things would be different.

jjmcdonald ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

As someone who is written a story of that sort, I have a strong opinion here. I knew someone who lost both parents in his Junior year of high school. His older brother took over as his Custodial Guardian. Pat was probably one of the strongest and gentlest people I have ever known. And he acted almost exactly like "hank" did in my story extension off of RS's book Magic 101. He did this because it was how his father's "Code of Behavior" was written down. It did take a few shocks, but having been raised with the "Code" as part of his life, Pat did more then thrive. But that's another story

Replies:   rustyken
rustyken ๐Ÿšซ

@jjmcdonald

And the name of the story was?

Replies:   Radagast
Radagast ๐Ÿšซ

@rustyken

https://storiesonline.net/n/32534/magic-201

Fanlon ๐Ÿšซ

@willstories

I know in my own writing, I do my best to keep my characters actions and mentaility age appropriate. I think I do a decent job of it in most instances, though I am biased.

But, the issue with writing COA is the varience in what preferences the readers want. Some like the bumbling, fumbling idiot trying to figure shit out and others want a more "take charge" or "alpha" type as Big Ed mentioned. If you lean to hard to one side or the other, its quickly becomes unbelievable.

Thats no different than the "his 8" dick" bullshit. Or the "I just met you, lets fuck, oh, bring your mom and your cousin too!" A lot of stories are way to quick to get to the action.

Replies:   ginverse
ginverse ๐Ÿšซ

@Fanlon

But, the issue with writing COA is the varience in what preferences the readers want. Some like the bumbling, fumbling idiot trying to figure shit out and others want a more "take charge" or "alpha" type as Big Ed mentioned. If you lean to hard to one side or the other, its quickly becomes unbelievable.

This is also an issue as the readers preferences can change from story to story or day to day, depending on what the reader is looking for.

Personally, for longer story I need to like the characters and find them relatable and understand them and for the characters to grow as the story progresses, this is where I find a lot of longer stories fall down.

The story becomes stagnant which makes the characters boring and uninteresting, with the author then trying to compensate for that by introducing new characters, this then takes time in the story away from the characters already established in the story which in turn starts to make all the characters bland as no character gets time to grow.

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