https://storiesonline.net/s/29122/warhammer-the-fall
Warhammer: the Fall
by Derek Castle
Synopsis: A non linear stand alone story based in the warhammer universe.
What the heck is a non-linear story?
https://storiesonline.net/s/29122/warhammer-the-fall
Warhammer: the Fall
by Derek Castle
Synopsis: A non linear stand alone story based in the warhammer universe.
What the heck is a non-linear story?
Thanks.
Doesn't sound like anything I would be interested in as either a writer or a reader.
The occasional flash back is one thing. Building an entire story out of out of sequence flash backs? No thanks.
Building an entire story out of out of sequence flash backs? No thanks.
The movie "The Prince of Tides" is told through flashbacks. It is great. And the novel has even more flashbacks.
I disliked the new movie "Elvis" because of the way it jumped around.
So it can be done well or done poorly. Then again, my wife and I are the only ones I know who didn't like "Elvis."
My question would be whether telling a story non-linearly could ever be a improvement over telling it linearly. I suspect the answer is 'no'.
AJ
My question would be whether telling a story non-linearly could ever be a improvement over telling it linearly. I suspect the answer is 'no'.
I disagree.
Many stories are better told with flashbacks. The reader learns why things are the way they are by feeding them information from the past. Like peeling an onion.
The reader learns why things are the way they are by feeding them information from the past. Like peeling an onion.
But out of sequence flashbacks have a strong tendency to being more confusing than informative if not used sparingly.
But out of sequence flashbacks have a strong tendency to being more confusing than informative if not used sparingly.
Ah, but the assumption is the author is good at his craft.
Ah, but the assumption is the author is good at his craft.
No matter how good the author is, out of sequence flashbacks* are more confusing than informative. In a story that is more flashback than present action this is exceedingly annoying.
*By out of sequence I mean you get a flashback to say 5 days ago, then a flashback to yesterday, then a flashback to two weeks ago, in that order.
In a story that is more flashback than present action this is exceedingly annoying.
Even in my example "Prince of Tides," there was more time spent in the present than the past. But there were many flashbacks into the past enlightening the reader/moviegoer of what led to the problems in the present.
The story wouldn't have the impact it did if you knew the past first.
The story wouldn't have the impact it did if you knew the past first.
I have seen detective TV shows done the way you describe. Personally, I didn't consider it that impactful.
The story wouldn't have the impact it did if you knew the past first.
That is your opinion. It is not an objective fact.
Would it have been that much less impactful if you had to infer the past from the present rather than being shown the past?
How can you make even a subjective judgement on that without comparing no-flashbacks side by side against with flashbacks?
The reader learns why things are the way they are by feeding them information from the past. Like peeling an onion.
But out of sequence flashbacks have a strong tendency to being more confusing than informative if not used sparingly.
Many stories are better told with flashbacks.
Have you read non-flashback versions of those stories for comparison? It seems illogical to me that making a story harder to read might improve it.
I started writing a SciFi story. I got a decent way into it then realised I'd started at the wrong place - I'd have to chuck in a huge flashback that would disrupt the flow and the style because previous revelations had been drip-fed in as and when appropriate so as to avoid exposition dumps. The story is now sitting in my 'untouched for at least a month' pile while I try to work up the enthusiasm to restructure it. Meh!
AJ
Have you read non-flashback versions of those stories for comparison? It seems illogical to me that making a story harder to read might improve it.
Why would the author write 2 versions?
Why would the author write 2 versions?
If the author doesn't, if you aren't comparing the same basic story written by the same author, linear and non-linear how do you determine which is an improvement over the other? Hint: you can't.
if you aren't comparing the same story written by the same author, linear and non-linear how do you determine which is an improvement over the other?
Would "To Kill a Mockingbird" have been a better novel if told from the father's POV (a lawyer's)? Would it have been better if told from the black man's POV?
Grisham probably thinks the one from the lawyer's POV would have been better. That's the way he would have written it. A Black Lives Matter advocate would think it would be better from the black man's POV.
But since we only have one version, we'll never know.
But since we only have one version, we'll never know.
Which is exactly the point I was making.
Which is exactly the point I was making.
My point was the author made the decision as to which way was the best to tell the story. No sense second-guessing her.
"The Prince of Tides" wouldn't be the story/movie it is today without the flashbacks. It's the unknown and learning bits and pieces throughout the story that makes it powerful.
My point was the author made the decision as to which way was the best to tell the story. No sense second-guessing her.
It's not second-guessing the author to say I am not a fan of the technique and will avoid stories that use it.
It's the unknown and learning bits and pieces throughout the story that makes it powerful.
Or makes it unwatchable for people who don't like the technique.
Boy would you hate the movie Memento. Personally, I thought it was freakin' amazing. The moral here is that there's no one right way to tell a story. Different people have different tastes, and that's great.
My point was the author made the decision as to which way was the best to tell the story.
Did they really? They decided how they wanted to write the story but the chances of that being the best are not very good - minuscule if you go down to the most granular level.
AJ
but the chances of that being the best are not very good
It won a Nobel Prize for literature
It won a Nobel Prize for literature
Are you 100% sure about that?
It's not listed as a winner on the prize winner list sites, and no such honour is mentioned on the wikipedia (spit!) page devoted to the novel.
AJ
It's not listed as a winner on the prize winner list sites
It is on the Pulitzer site: https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/harper-lee
1961. It says for Fiction, not Literature as I said.
It's listed on this one too: https://www.pulitzer.org/prize-winners-by-year/1961
It is on the Pulitzer site
The Pulitzer doesn't have anything to do with the Nobel Prize organization. You had claimed previously that it had won a Nobel Prize, not that it had won a Pulitzer prize.
You had claimed previously that it had won a Nobel Prize, not that it had won a Pulitzer prize.
Correct. My mistake.
It is on the Pulitzer site: https://www.pulitzer.org/winners/harper-lee
Oops. I thought we were talking about 'Prince of Tides'.
'To Kill A Mockingbird' is on my 'I should probably read that one day' list, so I have no idea what effect all the flashbacks have.
AJ
'To Kill A Mockingbird' is on my 'I should probably read that one day' list, so I have no idea what effect all the flashbacks have.
I used "To Kill a Mockingbird" as an example of writing the story from a different POV than the author did, not about flashbacks. It was in response to the comment that a novel written without flashbacks could be better than the one written with flashbacks, but we'll never know. I used the same logic with POV instead of flashbacks.
Forget I brought up "To Kill a Mockingbird."
I suspect the answer is 'no'.
Quentin Tarantino would likely disagree (eg, Pulp Fiction, Kill Bill). Many Christopher Nolan films also fall into this category. So does David Lynch.
Other films that are definitely worth seeing despite being non-linear are Cloud Atlas and Grand Budapest Hotel.
Note that there's a lot more to non-linear storytelling than just flashbacks (analepsis) and flashforwards (prolepsis), those are just the easiest types to explain to general audiences.
I think the site doesn't cater for 32-bit browsers. What I can see is decidedly short of tips and examples.
AJ
What the heck is a non-linear story?
I have read some mysteries that do that.
Starting with the discovery of the crime.
Then the investigation begins. As clues or evidence is discovered, the reader then "sees" that particular aspect "as it occurs" Then "back to the investigation" (Sometimes "current events" of the prosecutor, the criminals, or other characters may take place.)
Since clues may be discovered out of the order they occurred in the crime, the story is non-linear.
It is a way of "Showing not telling." Rather than the detective relating how (s)he discovered something (and often their interpretation of events). You "witness" events (often without explanations).
To keep things interesting there will be "twists" such as having discovered a clue results in more questions that you didn't know upon initial discovery of the crime.
I could see it possibly working in military story. The story focuses upon the main military action. "Suddenly a flanking force attacks having achieved surprise!" Then there is a chapter about the flanking force before they arrived on the main battlefield.
I have read multiple books about the 1866 Battle of Koningratz between the Prussians and the Austrians. Most are in cronilogical order, but jumping all over the place to various units of both sides. With "perfect" knowledge it is easy to see where mistakes are being made.
One book focused upon the main Austrian and main Prussian Generals. Decisions they made make more sense. The Austrian General knew there were other Prussian forces out there, but had no reports of where they were. He was determined to defeat the Prussians in front of him in detail. The Prussian General knew that there were supposed to be flank attacks supporting his attack, it was essential he fix the Austrians in place... unless he was defeated before the flank attacks succeeded!
When new units appeared on the battlefield, then the events of the there last few hours or days are related. Providing context.
While non-linear it really did help me understand why various leaders acted as they did; having limited communication.
From a linear and omniscient perspective it is too easy to be unfairly judgmental.
Non-linear is a niche technique, but if done well it could provide an interesting perspective.
aroslav's Bob the Demon series is written in non-linear form. At first it wasn't a great problem because, although Bob's narrative took loads of detours, there was still a sort of central current leading towards the present. Now the current book has reached the present, the non-linear style is creating lots of issues IMO.
AJ
A good example of a non-linear story as a movie is Memento. This was a great movie, but I suspect it would not have been as enjoyable as a book.
Catch 22 is not only told out of sequence but the same scene is retold multiple times from the point of view of different characters, some of whom are barely holding on to reality. The approach reinforces the sense of insanity of war