Forum: Author Hangout

locate the various access

Accents?

I am writing a story that has numerous scenes in the Mexican state of Chihuahua, and also in Mexico City. I know people who are from Chihuahua state, and/or Mexico City. I consult with them for how some things would be said.

Their American English is significantly better than my Mexican Spanish. However, when I am writing dialog for certain upper-class individuals from Mexico City, I use the "more correct grammar from an online source" (Not Google); to reflect the characters' education.

I want my stories to "sound authentic" (with-in reason); however, I get several persistent comments/complaints to "write EVERYTHING in (American) English since this is an American site!"

(Yes, I know SOL is based in Canada, Eh!)

I want my stories to "sound authentic" (with-in reason); however, I get several persistent comments/complaints to "write EVERYTHING in (American) English since this is an American site!"

Since I live in the part of the USA that is stolen land, I've got no patience for fools that say things like to me.

Where I am, if you want to speak the real local language, learn Ohlone. If you want to speak the languages folks spoke for 300 years here, learn Mexican Spanish. If you want to speak "occupier" learn English. :)

Funny enough, Mexico does NOT have an official language, and a notable portion of it's population only speak indigenous languages. The USA also does not have an official language (many states do though) - much to the chagrin of people who think it does.

Given that a fourth to a third of the USA was Mexico/New Spain for 300 years, I've always thought it odd that the USA wasn't officially bi-lingual with a requirement to learn both English and Spanish in schools, as I "believe" some European countries that are mergers of different language communities do.

California to Texas have more reason to be speaking Spanish than Quebec does speaking French; when you look at time and culture.

Sadly my own Spanish education was very lacking. If I'm around people for a few hours I start to understand them because I am a Californian that didn't grown up hiding behind a security fence... But speaking it is another matter.

(People often think I am a Mexican because I look it enough that people working under me have presumed I was "the maid", but I'm not, though I am notably Andean Indigenous.)

A decade ago I worked for a British guy who said that it took him a while on arriving in the USA to be able to locate the various access, and that when he first arrived EVERYONE sounded like a Country Western song...

It could be interesting/Entertaining, for a chapter or few, to have a "British" (Irish, etc.) Character to make a similar comment, then have all of the "Yanks" talk like that; until the British character began to recognize a "Noo Yawk" or "Bhas-ten" accent. Or most dialog just smooths out to "basic" English (other than perhaps a few extraordinary words).

It's probably safer for me to set the story in America.

I started a dialogue with an author here not too long ago precisely because I realized he was NOT an American and he set a part of his story in one of the towns in Central California that I had a LOT of experience with, causing me to notice.

(He was writing in a shared universe so he was kind of stuck to that region by prior authors.)

That said - the author was really enjoyable to read, even when I noticed things that didn't match. If you're a good writer people can forgive a lot.

The best bet is to be vague about location unless there is a reason to be specific.

In my old Alandra NiS story I purposefully did not say where it took place so as to avoid the issue (it's obvious it's in the USA, but while I give some hints about where it might be, I avoid being specific). In some other stories where I have been ultra-specific it's opened me up to valid criticism.

If you need your characters to visit some known place as a part of the story... "...we drove in my lowrider down into one of those cement canals that pass all through L.A., and got out to hang out with some cholos..." then you're stuck.

But if not, then it just takes place "over there" instead of "right here". Unless it takes place "right here" and not "over there". :)

I appreciate the help. I don't think you're hearing me when I say that it's the regional colloquialisms I wanted to get consistent and not the overall British language.

Even a Southern accent in America has differences between Alabama and Georgia or Texas.

I appreciate the help. I don't think you're hearing me when I say that it's the regional colloquialisms I wanted to get consistent and not the overall British language.

I believe the Queen's English qualifies as a dialect in its own right, and is most likely to be spoken by southerners in the UK.

As to other UK dialects, I suggest you pick which area best fits your story and look up eg 'Berkshire dialect'.

As an aside, I have a little booklet given to me decades ago titled 'The Yorkshire Yammer'. It's full of things that allegedly only people from Yorkshire say, but it was written with humorous intent and would probably attract sneers from those native to the white rose county, not least because the language varies significantly even across the county.

AJ

Those "variations" are all "standard" English

Yep.

I like to reveal where people are from with actions, expressions, fashion, and maybe a googled word / phrase here and there. But then for the bulk of the writing stay within my linguistic skill set.

In one of my older stories, one that's been long abandoned, I made an effort to pull in a lot of slang from a community I was in - and I've had feedback that "that's now those people talk" or "that slang was outdated before the time the story took place".

- And this shows some of the risks of using too many "local phrase". Either you get them wrong, people not in the know believe you got them wrong because Urban Dictionary told them otherwise, or you date yourself. Or some combination of all three of these happens... :)

I found out today that The British call a dollar store "Pound Town".

?????

A number of chains with 'pound' in their name opened and thrived during the American sub-prime recession eg Poundland. I've never heard of Pound Town. Could it be specific to a particular region?

AJ

Poundland, Poudstretcher and Poundworld do exist.

I thought one of them had been taken over from the point of bankruptcy, by B&M perhaps. Or possibly my memory is deceiving me.

AJ

"Brits" or more properly, Citizens of the United Kingdom, have interesting accents, and many of the service members seem to be able to turn-off/turn-on their accents at will (or at least significantly tune them down).

Among my duties in the armed forces of the USA, more frequently than many I have had interactions with members of Her Majesty's Britannic armed forces. In addition to the "Paras" "Highlanders" and other conventional forces, or the Royal Marine Commandos, I served for a bit more than two years as a "liaison" with primarily 22nd Regiment Special Air Service (The S.A.S.), as well as SBS, and others.

Mostly my duties while serving in USSOCOM with the UK forces were facilitating Support and Services, or other non-combat matters. The more that I seemed to understand the terms and accents, the more they turned them up a notch.

At first meeting it was established that I know that Football is played with a round ball, and that I am a fan of Arsenal. Of secondary importance, I know that The M.O.D. is the Ministry of Defense, and they are parsimonious gits. (That most other "liaisons" from the USA had no knowledge of the UK armed forces is disturbing. One of my UK colleagues mentioned that "If they have an inkling that England isn't somewhere a bit north of New York City." The Brits felt lucky) Of course, the primary duty of a USSOCM liaison was to facilitate the flow of largess from "Uncle Sugar" so the Brits were willing to tolerate quite a bit of ignorance in return for the Bounty from the US Taxpayers!

Early in my tenure the Brits caused a significant power outage effecting areas outside their compound. I was sent there to, in the vernacular: "Sort It Out." What they had cobbled together defies imagination; but that is another story. The key facts are that in a trice I ensured that they had power for the "telly" so they could watch Football, and AC too; most importantly the fridge had power to keep the Beer at "Room Temperature" (Not the temperature inside a CHU in Iraq or Afghanistan; rather that of a Traditional British Pub: where one must wear a Coat AND a Sweater! even on an early Summer evening.)

Once I had improved Anglo-American relations, I was invited to join them to watch a few matches of the Premier League. The Brits were Not under the strictures of General Order 1B in particular they didn't have to adhere to the NO Alcohol, No Sex, No Porn, and basically No Fun! that USA forces had to endure.

For amusement they determined that "one of my Duties should be "Translating" between various UK dialects. Fortunately, not Scots Gaelic, it actually had to be some variation of the "Queen's English" but trying to decipher between a guy speaking with a thick Geordie accent and a Cornishman can be a challenge!

When I teased a member of the RN (Royal Navy; other nations need to identify Which nation) about Winston Churchill's comment that "Naval Tradition? It's all Rum, Buggery, and the Lash!" They were more than occasionally trying to shock me about some aspects of British culture. Mostly they seemed to find it uncommon that I not only knew about Shakespeare and Monty Python (not necessarily in that order) but also Red Dwarf, Blake's-7, Falwty Towers, Doctor Who, and The Prisoner; as well as the Magna Carta, 1066, and the English Civil War. Most important was Football!

Similar to deployed units of the USA, who get swag from various sports teams; so too the Brits got some from their equivalents. I was gifted a jersey from Arsenal, a flag from the English National Rugby Team, and some other trinkets.

Playing a bit of Football was humbling; playing Rugby justified my "Combat Pay" more than the occasional IED or rocket attack!

Outside their compound they were more restrained, but at the D-Fac, the gym, or elsewhere, they would chat with me, or tell a joke, or whatever. Many of my fellow US service members would ask, "IF they ever talk to me, it is never more than a couple of words. With you they Smile, and even laugh occasionally. What makes You so special?"

(I didn't share that it was mostly that I help ensure the beer is cold, and the Premier League is on the TV. Also, I bother to understand a bit of Their culture.)

My Bosses didn't care that I allowed the Brits to prioritize the fridge and the telly over Coms & Computers for mission planning. Just as long as they didn't jury rig something that dropped another sub-main!

It has long been known that there can be: "Better International Relations Through Beer!"

{Not so much with the Islamic nations...}

General Order 1B in particular they didn't have to adhere to the NO Alcohol

Ahhh, the Toucan rule.... ;)

Thanks Clee!

I've posted up two chapters so far and I think I am doing well based on the comments from people who identify as hailing from the UK.

Then again, they may be saying it sarcastically.

"Right, brilliant. You absolute bastard."

It's hard to say.

I wanted to at least do my homework rather than blunder in and throw my hands up and say "I'll get something wrong, so why bother".

People were kind enough to tell me "It's Chip Butties" not "Chip Buttys"

In America, I can assure you if we had something on the menu that said "Butties", we'd all giggle and make farting noises when we ordered it.

Then we'd go "Fucking fries on a bun? You fucker. Give me a hamburger"

I just couldn't imagine this woman in the story I was working on living anywhere but the UK and living like this. British people have a different way of looking at the town nutter/eccentric.

"Oh, that's Paul. He's not been quite right since he electrocuted himself accidentally. Don't mind him. He thinks he's Freddy Mercury"

I wanted a woman who wasn't exactly a perfect barbie doll, that flashed in her local village. She's the source of rumors as the local strumpet/bar-slut, and everyone has seen her fanny around the village. It's not a real surprise to the locals.

In America, we have that too, but I just couldn't get the same vibe when I tried to set the story here. I am pleasantly surprised and grateful for all the help in this thread and the people that have sent me comments to help me.

I felt like trivial details don't matter to the story, but without that fish and chips, and "breakfast, dinner, tea, supper" at least sounding authentic it would distract from the story and pull anyone who really could envision a place like South Godstone right out of the story.

So it was time well spent. I even got on Google and walked the streets virtually, made notes of what I saw and tried to describe them as the characters did things.

breakfast, dinner, tea, supper

I think you'll find most Brits only have three main meals per day.

AJ

These are not "most brits". Their mum is from the north and she likes to eat, but thanks, Awnlee. I made a lot of inquiries into food. The biggest challenge was related to the concept of Dinner for lunch as an American.


I addressed why it was this way for them, and how the main character being from Fulham, initially was confused.

I get the impression from the article that rice, as a vegetable, has made very little inroad into German cuisine - it only gets a mention under Saxony. Is that still true?

I was brought up on potatoes as the source of carbohydrates in the main meal. But mass immigration has introduced a welter of other cuisines to the UK and rice is now firmly embedded as a staple.

I prefer brown rice to white rice, but I don't understand how something that takes less processing during production costs so much more :-(

AJ

I think your assumption that the cost of processing brown rice is lower is questionable.

My understanding is that white rice requires extra processing over and above that required by brown rice. The result is the white colour, the reduction in nutritional value and the shorter cooking time.

I've seen claims that white rice has a higher shelf life.

If properly stored, both white and brown rice should keep for years. The 'best before' dates on the packets in my cupboard vary from two to three years from the purchase date. Both the longest and shortest 'best before' dates are on packets of white rice, with brown rice somewhere in between. Oddly enough, despite my preference for brown, I have an equal number of packets of each ;-)

AJ

If preserving the bran on brown rice requires more manual handling and less automation it can still be more costly than processing white rice.

I don't believe that's the case, based on this article and others like it.

AJ

The point is more processing vs less processing does not of and in itself without more information mean more cost to produce vs less cost to produce.

What more do you need to know? Remove the husk and you have brown rice. Take the brown rice, remove the bran and do more processing and you get white rice. Seems obvious to me.

AJ

And some white rice gets artificially fortified to compensate for its nutritional poorness.

AJ

In producing white rice, the bran is a valuable byproduct that is sold separately.

That makes me wonder who uses it and what for. *nobody* eats brown rice in Asia, so there must be tons and tons of the stuff. It doesn't seem to find its way into products here - we seem to use almost exclusively wheat bran which, despite the machinations of mad vlad and needing to be shaped, processed and fortified, is still probably the cheapest breakfast cereal on the market.

AJ

it's rich in oil.

Isn't oil baby plant food? To obtain it, you have to crush the whole kernel. If you're using rice to produce oil, aren't you just using rice?

AJ

That makes no sense. Plants wouldn't evolve to generate an 'expensive' (for them) product without gaining some sort of biological advantage from it. My inclination is towards scepticism.

AJ

I can see oil in the bran as potentially protecting the kernel.

Unlikely. Since rice bran oil is used for cooking, it's unlikely to be much use for waterproofing.

Someone ought to correct that Wikipedia (spit!) article - rice bran isn't the husk (chaff), it's the hard cuticle covering the embryo. Confusingly, the pmg article says it's not the husk then calls it the inner husk!

AJ

Remove the husk and you've got brown rice. Chuck the brown rice in water and it soaks it up, although not nearly as quickly as cuticle-free white rice.

AJ