Home ยป Forum ยป Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

Martial Law Districts

PotomacBob ๐Ÿšซ

For a story, in which the President and Congress declare martial law in the United States, and military personnel from the various services are placed in charge of "districts" that do not, in most cases, follow today's state lines, is there a standard title for the name of the individual in charge? "Governor-general" came to mind (regardless of rank), but I made it up so it may be inappropriate. Thoughts?

tenyari ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

The concept of Martial Law doesn't actually exist within US law so the answer would be no.

If a 'warlord' took over, they'd be winging it. And even if a president did this, they'd be just that; a warlord and no longer a president.

You can more or less make up titles reflective of the personalities of the new dictator.

Replies:   Michael Loucks  Remus2
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@tenyari

The concept of Martial Law doesn't actually exist within US law so the answer would be no.

It may not be called that, but per the US Constitution, Article I

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

The right to be free from arrest and held without proper legal process being suspended will look an awful lot like martial law, especially when governors deploy the National Guard to suppress said rebellion.

Replies:   James Jay Madison
James Jay Madison ๐Ÿšซ

@Michael Loucks

especially when governors deploy the National Guard to suppress said rebellion.

Unless said governors are the ones behind said rebellion ...

Why doth treason never prosper? If it does, none dare call it treason!

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@tenyari

The concept of Martial Law doesn't actually exist within US law so the answer would be no.

That would be incorrect.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/martial_law

DBActive ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@PotomacBob

The military districts established after the Civil War were led by brigadier generals simply called "commander",

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT  irvmull
Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

I would consider what was done by the US Armed Forces, in particular the US Army during and after the Second World War.

Military Zones, or Zones of Occupation generally conformed to the boundaries of an Army, such as "Patton's Third Army" or several Armies (Seventh Army, Ninth Army) or an Army Group; that may not correspond to civilian political jurisdictions; such as State lines or Counties, etc.

Military Districts are smaller than Zones (sometimes sub-divisions; other times independent). Such as the Military District of Washington D.C.

In 1945 Germany and other parts of Europe were organized into Military Zones. South Korea, Japan, and possibly other areas were zones. From early in the 20th Century, the Philippines and Panama were Military Zones. (There may have been more than one Military Zone in the Philippines.)

There is greater concern about avoiding crossing military Chains-of-Command, than civilian jurisdictions.

A convention in the US Army is that Battalions, Regiments, Brigades and Divisions, may use a number: 1st Battalion, 161st Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade (or 81st Brigade) 82nd Airborne Division. Corps use Roman Numerals: I Corps or XVIII Airborne Corps. Armies always spell out the number: Third Army.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@DBActive

The military districts established after the Civil War were led by brigadier generals simply called "commander",

I was surprised to find that areas outside city limits were still referred to as "militia districts" in the 1930 census.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

If it were Marshal Law the title would probably be Marshal.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

If it were Marshal Law the title would probably be Marshal.

If it were Marital Law. the title would probably be something referring to a senior misogynist, frock-wearing, bearded bible-thumper.

Little-known fact: 'Been to Bible Class' was a Victorian euphemism for receiving two black eyes in a fight.

AJ

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

Provost Marshal is the title of the person in charge of enforcing Military Law and regulations. On an Army Base the Military Police work out of the Provost Marshal's Office. Each Corps and Higher Headquarters has a Provost Marshal (at the Corps Level, the Corps Commander is a (3-Star) Lieutenant General, and the Provost marshal is a Colonel (O-6).

From c.1941 into the 1990's the Provost Marshal of the Army (and commander of the Military Police Branch) was a (1-Star) Brigadier General. Since the 1990's the Provost Marshal of the US Army is a (2-Star) Major General). The National Guard of most States have a Lieutenant Colonel as their Provost Marshal (covering both Army & Air National Guard units).

The duty of Provost Marshal goes back to the Continental Army, under General George Washington. (Our tradition is directly from British Military traditions.)

The US Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and active duty Air Force don't have a Provost Marshal. Until the 1990's the US Navy had a Petty Officer only Rate of Master-at-Arms; as well as the "Shore Patrol" (comprised of individuals of any Rate on temporary duty). Marines (not always USMC Military Police) often provided police and security duties on Naval and Marine facilities.

The Coast Guard is a Law Enforcement Agency (in particular during peacetime).

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

The US Navy (and USMC) have Naval Districts that generally encompass the area around one or more Naval facilities. Such as the Pugent Sound Naval District; or a similar command in and around San Francisco, or Hawaii, or Philadelphia.

For the most part the USN has deferred to the US Army (or in some circumstances National Guard or Territorial Guard). At times, from the 1930's into the 1990's USN Shore Patrol might conduct limited duties in cooperation with US Army MPs, and local law enforcement.

Sea Zones or Fleet Areas are almost entirely the Oceans, but also include Puget Sound, the Great Lakes, Chesapeake Bay, and even some rivers or other access to Naval facilities (such as King's Bay, GA). Some Islands, Islets, reefs, etc. may also be under the jurisdiction of the US Navy (or delegated to the Marines).

There are some 14 Coast Guard Districts in peacetime. Depending upon the circumstances those might (or might not) be placed under the jurisdiction of the US Navy.

helmut_meukel ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

From c.1941 into the 1990's the Provost Marshal of the Army (and commander of the Military Police Branch) was a (1-Star) Brigadier General. Since the 1990's the Provost Marshal of the US Army is a (2-Star) Major General).

The US Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and active duty Air Force don't have a Provost Marshal

This clashes with the Wikipedia entry, which states the
United States Army Provost Marshal General (PMG) is a post that was reinstated in 2003, having been abolished 29 years earlier. The second link provides some more info about the on/off position of the PMG.

The Air Force doesn't have Provost Marshals it has the director of Security Forces who is a brigadier general.
(same job โ€“ other name).

HM.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

This clashes with the Wikipedia entry, which states the

United States Army Provost Marshal General (PMG) is a post that was reinstated in 2003, having been abolished 29 years earlier. The second link provides some more info about the on/off position of the PMG.

In the early 1980's I had two older step-brothers who joined the US Army as Military Police. At their graduation ceremony it was specified that there was the Provost Marshal of the Army, who was also commander of the Military Police Branch. That individual was a Brigadier General.

Perhaps back in 1974 the title was the Provost Marshal General, and with the downsizing of the US Army (RIF: Reduction In Forces) and perhaps a reduction in Rank to Brigadier General, the title was changed to Provost Marshal of the Army (perhaps so that a Colonel, rather than a General could hold the Command)?

Then, when the position rated a "2-Star" General, the title was changed back to Provost Marshal General?

PMG or PMotA, whatever, the senior Military Law Enforcement Officer of US Army Bases (at least the big ones: Benning, Bragg, Knox, Hood, etc.) Corps and higher HQ (possibly Divisions) and each State National Guard has Provost Marshal as part of their title.

As a Cavalry Scout we occasionally manned TCPs (Tactical Control Points) usually forward of the FEBA or during Passage of Lines; occasionally during Tactical Road Marches. Sometimes we would coordinate with the MPs who generally manned TCPs in the RACO (Rear Area Combat Operations). In the Airborne that could be a bit "fuzzy" since an "Airhead" (units deployed into one or more DZs Drop Zones and area we seized) would be behind enemy lines until friendly forces (hopefully) linked up with us.

As part of my unit's duties at XVIII Airborne Corps HQ we occasionally had to receive and distribute copies of the Corps Provost Marshal's report.

As an NCO I have had to go to the Provost Marshal's Office to pick up one (or more) of my unit's soldiers who got in a fight at the Enlisted Mens' Club (or NCO Club), or DWI, etc.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@helmut_meukel

The Air Force doesn't have Provost Marshals it has the director of Security Forces who is a brigadier general.
(same job โ€“ other name).

Similar, but Not "the same" duties.

US Air Force Security Police are much more focused upon Physical Security of the facilities, flightline, aircraft, and in particular "special weapons" and any LEO duties are at best tertiary.

US Army Military Police are much more focused upon law enforcement duties, and controlling traffic than USAF SPs. The US Army has many more personnel, and has the responsibilities for many more ground Logistics Routes (Road and Railroad, sometimes Ports). On a US Army Base many of the Physical Security duties are the responsibility of Infantry, Cavalry, and other units. Military Police will do some physical security duties, but much less than USAF SPs.

The Mentality and training of US Army MPs and USAF SPs are significantly different. However, for at least 25 years both are trained at Lackland AFB, near San Antonio, TX. After September 11th 2001 I briefly considered becoming a USAF SP; instead I trained as a CCT; then a couple of years later I transferred back to the US Army; Infantry.

Replies:   rustyken
rustyken ๐Ÿšซ

@Paladin_HGWT

There are two aspects of the military police for the Air Force. One is the Security Police, which has the focus as noted above. There is another portion that focuses on law enforcement, but I don't remember the title.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@rustyken

There are two aspects of the military police for the Air Force. One is the Security Police, which has the focus as noted above. There is another portion that focuses on law enforcement, but I don't remember the title.

If a Governor or POTUS were going to declare Martial Law, the Primary force would be the US Army and the Army National Guard, and possibly US Army Reserve. (Depending upon the "political" reliability of the NG and/Reserves to enforce such an edict upon their "neighbors")

The US Marines have been used for similar duties for some 250 years from US Marines commanded by Colonel Robert E. Lee to put down John Brown's seizure of Harper's Ferry to the LA riots in the 1990's In particular Marines would most likely be used in Southern California, Eastern North Carolina, Virginia, and Washington DC.

US Navy has a history of securing major port cities and/or areas near naval facilities. The Shore Patrol is comprised of Officers, Petty Officers, and Sailors, with Masters-at-Arms advising/coordinating (and/or Marines to "stiffen" the sailors). The US Navy provided some security and convoy forces in Iraq and the Gulf States, and has done so in other circumstances. From Vietnam, the Mayquez incident, the Philippines, and defending Hawaii.

While the Coast Guard has law enforcement authority, they have specific competence, and small numbers. Suppressing smuggling of weapons or other contraband, and personnel foremost.

The USAF has limited personnel, few of whom are trained, or equipped for enforcing Martial Law. Nor does the USAF as an institution prepare for such duties. Using a team of 2 to up to 12 PJs and CCTs to "secure" and evacuate the Governor of Nebraska, sure. Other than Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX, I can't think of any USAF facility that has the personnel to have any practical utility beyond self-defense. Lackland AFB is where USAF SPs, USA and USMC MPs, and USN Master-at-Arms are trained.

The OP is about "Who Would Enforce Martial Law?" Specifically the OP is: "What are the Martial Law Districts?" However, the jurisdictions would to a significant degree be determined by Who was enforcing Martial Law.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@PotomacBob

In 1969 after I graduated from Signal Officer Basic at Fort Gordon (aka Fort Garbage) near Augusta, Georgia (aka Disgusta. GA) which was also where Military Police were trained, I was transferred to the Presidio of San Francisco to join the 30th Military Police Battalion. A non TO&E job, Signal Officer. Before I arrived there were six enlisted men who performed all signal related jobs, let by a Sgt, E5. I didn't do much signal related work. I got on the Duty Officer roster including occasions duty at the military jail at the Presidio, which was mostly run by MPs reporting to sergeants. After about 9 months I was sent to Wurzburg, Germany to the 123rd Signal Battalion, 3rd Infantry Division, "Rock of the Marne". I had a wide variety of jobs there starting as an assistant Platoon Leader (another non-TO&E job) at Grafenwoehr the armor training area as the 3rd Division had armor battalions training there that needed signals support. The platoon leader had daylight duties, I was available to handle anything signal related that happened at night. Not much. Then I was assistant S2/S3. Again not much useful to do, I made sure safes were locked at the end of the day. Then I got transferred to S4 and was property book officer, signed for millions of dollars worth of signal and other equipment the battalion owned, fortunately there were people signed for each item of equipment on hand receipts. Briefly I was acting S4 until a warrant officer who actually had some experience took over the job. I did turn over my liquor rations to the senior sergeants who actually had job of getting the items we were signed for turned in for repair or replacement. A couple of bottles of alcoholic beverages made their job much easier, and made me look much better to the Battalion Commander, except I did not realize that having more stuff on hand the the table of organization and equipment was just as bad as having too little. Finally they made me Headquarters and Headquarters Detachment commander (not quite a company commander but sort of, just about 90 HQ staff guys instead of three or four platoons for company. Fairly easy until one of my guys left his rifle in a PX on the base. This was a serious violation of the laws of war, as I understand it and fortunately it was found in about 24 hours in B Company armory. I did get and Army Commendation Medal at the end of my service so handling a lot of different duties in about 12 months was apparently appreciated, not many first lieutenants got the "atta boy" which was more normal for higher ranking officers. If I had stayed with the battalion I was told I would be the S1 or Adjutant. But if I had re-upped I was told by a captain from personnel from the pentagon that they would send my ass to Vietnam right after I signed up to extend my 2 year commitment (I got a direct commission partway through Graduate school looking for my MBA) and it was a very good thing, since I got notice of my Draft obligation being called for service after I was about a month into Signal Officer Basic Course. Of course they would have sent me to Vietnam as a private.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

Until recently (post September 11th 2001) the USA did not have a Federal Police Force.

The FBI is an Investigative organization; yes it has a very limited ability to enforce select federal crimes. "Special Agents" specifically means Armed (with at least a pistol) and the authority to arrest. There are not that many FBI agents. DEA, ATF, Treasury Agents, Customs agents & inspectors and US Marshals are also comparatively small agencies with specific narrow functions.

The US Border Patrol (part of ICE) has authority to assist local communities within 50 miles of USA International Borders. (A BORTAC team ended the mass murder in Uvalde, TX.) However, the Border Patrol is spread thin along (mostly) the USA-Mexico border.

Washington DC has a plethora of Federal law Enforcement agencies, or agencies that have "evolved" "law enforcement capabilities" the FDA has multiple SWAT teams (WTF for?!?), the Library of Congress Police, Federal Protective Service, uniformed officers of the Secret Service, Federal Park Police, etc., etc., etc., etc. Mostly located in and around Washington, the District of Columbia; but also NYC, Los Angeles, Chicago, and a dozen to 20 other major cities from Atlanta and Denver to Portland, OR and Seattle.

The TSA (Transportation Security Agency) has grown Massively since 2002! The mouth-breathing people who grope you for the "privilege" of flying commercial; while their comrades piffler your luggage; these low grade thugs are now Armed and DANGEROUS!

Leftists have been agitating for some time for the creation of a Federal Police Force! Meanwhile, castigating Local Law Enforcement agencies and Personnel; Congress has been radically expanding Armed Agents of the Federal Government.

Since the founding of the USA if the Insurrection Act, or other Federal edicts were to be enforced, it has been Presumed that Martial Law would have to be declared. Because the Federal Government only had two options, the "Regular" (standing) Army or Federalizing the Militia of the "several states" because there was no one else. Federal Marshals (actually the Deputy US Marshals they direct) act upon the directives of Federal Judges, are few in number and by Tradition have limited scope.

The State Militias (including "ordinary armed citizens" of the community) now including the National Guard, the State Guards, some states have "Rangers" Naval Militias, etc. were intended as a counterbalance to the "Standing" ("Regular" now called Active Duty) Army (and USMC, etc.)

As per the OP: "For a Story..." the Secretary of Homeland Security and the massive conglomeration of federal agencies could be placed in charge rather than the military and naval forces. It could be argued that, unlike the US Army, the DHS is not subject to Posse Comitatus.

FOZ: Fusion Operations Zones under the control of "Fusion Centers" directed by the Secretary of Homeland Security. Research the DHS Fusion Centers. (in particular whom the various Fusion Centers have target as "threats" I am sure SOL Authors are on the Lists...)

Back to Top

 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In