Forum: Author Hangout

I know next to nothing about military ranks, but it's my understanding that someone with a given rank (eg Private?) 1st Class is higher than someone with the same rank 2nd Class, which in turn is higher than 3rd Class.

Are there any countries/military systems where the reverse is true? I was jotting down the scenario for a space opera which starts with the protagonist celebrating her promotion from Fighter Pilot 3rd Class to Fighter Pilot 4th Class because she now has leadership responsibilities plus a private cabin. I wondered whether there were any real-life examples where that happens in practice.

AJ

check out this page and the chart near the bottom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_Kingdom_and_United_States_military_ranks

- Private gets promoted to Private 1st class which suggest there used to be others

- Specialist 1 gets promoted to specialist 2 then specialist 3 then specialist 4

Also, i saw on another page that in the Irish Army they have Private who gets promoted to Private 2 star then Private 3 star

The webs page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_enlisted_rank_insignia

shows the US army have privates as PV1 then promoted to PV2 then PFC

Considering what i saw of the Specialist ranks in the US military going up in grade and number you could probably get away with having the person's rank as: Pilot Fighter Specialist 3rd going to Pilot Fighter Specialist 4th

Warrant Officers
Neither Enlisted personnel nor Commissioned Officers (Lieutenant through Colonel/Ensign through Captain. Generals and Admirals are different too.)

Some variations by nation and branch (Army, Navy, etc.)
Warrant Officer 1st Class
Chief Warrant Officer 2nd Class
CWO 3rd Class
CWO 4th Class
CWO 5th Class (c.2010 to present)

Are there any countries/military systems where the reverse is true?

Not in an actual military as far as ranks are concerned. The bigger the number, the more stripes and responsibility. The reverse is true for awards, though. Someone getting a medal of the third class would receive something lesser than a medal of the first class.

The US Army Specialist rank was a way of designating people who had specialized skills, similar to the old tech grades from World War II. If you saw 'Saving Private Ryan,' Upham had the 'T' under his stripes.

Those were available once you reached the rank of E-4, which was either hard stripe corporal, or Spec4. A Spec5 was the same rank - E-5 - as a three stripe Sergeant, but would tend to NOT be given certain duties, because of the specialized training. Later (well, after I got out, but now nearly 40 years ago) Spec5 and above as a rank were eliminated.

You want to get into a fun discussion? Ask about combat arms versus support arms, and how a second lieutenant can give a colonel orders that he legally must follow.

The Wikipedia article is not 100% correct, for instance, the statement "As such there is no promotion from a class 4 private to a class 3 private" There most definitely is. In the infantry, you have to undergo a four to three upgrading course, which is just putting up with bullshit for a couple of weeks.The additional rank is only paid when you achieve a 'technical qualification' to go with it, ie pass your class 'B' driving licence (car) or another technical trade like Mechanical Handling Equipment (forklift) Once you have done that, you get paid your extra £40 a month or whatever it is these days.

Once your command staff has deemed you 'suitably experienced', you get to go on another pointless beasting exercise for a few weeks (your three to two), which is basically the same as the previous one. And you need a technical qualification, so that could be your class C (Rigid lorry) or the worst qualification to get in the army, your mini-bus ticket. And another £40 per month pay rise.

After another suitable period of time you get shoved onto a two to one course, which is basically the same as the previous two, lots of pointless drill, being shouted at. A lot. First aid, map reading, field exercises. Being shouted at again. Lots of sleep deprivation. Some more shouting. And then you pass. Or if the DS staff don't like you, you fail and have to go through all of it again... Once you pick up another qualification, you get another £40 a month to spend on boot polish for the next promotion course.

Which is your JPC, or Junior Promotion Course. Which varies in length depending on how much of an arsehole your unit is. It's about six weeks of being shouted at. Drill. Being shouted at. Sleep deprivation and all the same shit you went through the previous three times, but with the added bonus of now having to learn and give battle plans and organise and be in charge of a group of muppets.

And once you have completed that.... Nothing. Unless you were top student whereupon at the end of the course you are 'made up' ie given your first stripe. For the rest of you, you have to wait until a vacancy or a posting comes up... It is also the first rank in the British Army where you take a pay CUT Yes, you read that correctly, a pay CUT. Yes, when (if) you get promoted, you get your standard £40 pound a month extra (So you now get paid an extra £160 for doing the four promotion courses), but now that you are a Lance Jack, you now have to pay for mess dress and Mess bills! And HAVE to go to monthly mess do's which cost money and are unskipable, and are inevitably full of people that you don't like and now have to be sociable with.

The system is slightly different with each branch. The infantry do infantry shit on their 4-3 3-2 2-1, the Engineers do Engineering shit on theirs, the RLC do, god knows what the RLC do, but it doesn't seem to be very military orientated, etc etc

EDIT: The difference between your class one and a Lance Jack can be as much as being two hundred pounds WORSE off a month. So that's losing £200 a month for now having to put up with a heap of shite and generally having to act in a responsible/adult manner on a regular basis. It's not uncommon for a a fresh new LanceJack to moan to everyone around that they wish they had never done the bloody course (JPC) in the first place and that they are now broke... Whilst every one else sniggers. You don't start making money till you get your second stripe. You still have to pay mess bills and attend things you would rather not, but the pay rise now puts you on the same pay footing as a senior trooper/Pte/Spr

Thank you to everyone who contributed. I'm happy that there are precedents for ascending numbers to indicate promotions. Now all I need is a clone with the time to write the story for me ;-)

AJ

One final one is in the General ranks.

There, a Major General ranks below a Lieutenant General. Of course, this is because the first rank was originally known as "Sergeant Major General". But by the 18th century it was shortened to just "Major General".