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Characters speaking multiple languages

KimLittle ๐Ÿšซ

So outlining and starting to write something new. Question is, how to demarcate people switching between languages? I am thinking regular quotes for English and italics for the L2. For example:

I looked at him.

"I don't think you should start something you're not prepared to finish," I warned.

"I finished up good in your mother," he spat back

"Must have been a tight fit in the coffin, given she's been dead fifteen years," I replied.

His eyes widened.

"Yeah," I said, hefting the bat. "I speak your chickenshit language."

Obviously there will be some judicious use of dialogue tags early on to establish the point of the italics, but otherwise the only option is to state the language in almost every dialogue exchange which I think is clunky and pulls the reader out of the story.

Thoughts?

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

The words spoken in the foreign language should be in that language and in italics with the quotes since it's dialogue.

Or, in this example, you could keep it in English for the reader but tell the reader what language is being spoken, as in:

"I finished up good in your mother," he spat back in Spanish (or whatever the language is).

I replied in Spanish, "Must have been a tight fit in the coffin, given she's been dead fifteen years."

Replies:   KimLittle
KimLittle ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

I was worried that's going to get tiresome though. There will be a lot of interchange in between two languages, and characters are bilingual to an extent.

The example above is an example I knocked up for this discussion, so not related to the actual story. If I have to keep 'tagging' the language, I can see my draft checking software pinging me for redundant repetition for using the same word pairs/phrases over and over again. ^_^;;

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

There will be a lot of interchange in between two languages

But how often will you need to keep notifying the reader? In my novel "Lonely War Widows," there are scenes where the foreign words are in italics, but there are other times entire chapters are written in English but spoken in Italian. I don't have to keep telling the reader that they're speaking Italian. I establish that and it's assumed until I tell the reader otherwise.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Example of the former situation in my last post:

"Ciao signore e signori," she said with the sing-song Italian accent Boyd remembered.

"Buon pomeriggio," Boyd said automatically without thinking.

The teacher gawked at him for a few moments and then smiled. Her white teeth sparkled between the red lipstick.

Without taking her eyes off Boyd, she said to the class, "I said 'Hello ladies and gentleman' and it seems one of you knows enough Italian to reply with 'Good afternoon'."

This is an example of the second case:

"May I join you?" Boyd asked in Italian which is what he spoke all the time since arriving. Mrs. Romano would have been proud.

"Yes, of course," Umberto said.

Boyd set his tray on the table and sat down. He smiled at the woman.

"I'm Boyd Harken," he said to the woman in Italian assuming that's what she spoke. "I'm with the Dallas Morning News."

All of the dialogue in the chapter is written in English, but everyone is speaking Italian. And I don't mention it again.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

I was worried that's going to get tiresome though. There will be a lot of interchange in between two languages, and characters are bilingual to an extent.

Being a simple person, I prefer stories to be simple to understand. I'd rather you flagged the language each time it's not in English. It might seem tedious to you as you write it but I think it shares the property of near invisibility with the 'said' dialogue tag.

AJ

happytechguy15 ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

KimLittle, As a reader, I think I would be good with your example. Especially if as you said you would let me the reader know what's going on.

I've seen where and author would use the actual foreign language, the using parentheses provide the translation. But that distracts me from "being in the zone" of the story.

Obviously, I don't know what rules there are.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

Over the years I've tried a number of methods and found two to be the best, one is to have the dialogue in the foreign language if some of the characters present don't know it and aren't expected to understand it. The second is where they're all expected to understand the language just use some extra text in the dialogue tags like:

Fred turned to John and said, in French, "I don't like that idea at all."

Bondi Beach ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

So outlining and starting to write something new. Question is, how to demarcate people switching between languages?

Here's how Elena Ferrante did it in her Neapolitan Quartet. Might depend on how much dialogue there is and how frequently the languages change.

Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

However you do it you are likely to get far more comments Criticizing than praising.

So, I would do what You Think/Feel best conveys what You want in your story.

I can be Missunnderstood in more than 20 languages, American English is merely the first I learned, getting me off to a good start of Missunnderstanding.

In my primary story Aztlan Portal, a lot of it is set in Mexico, as well as parts of the USA just across the border. Spanish is often spoken. If most of the dialog is in English, I put Spanish in italics. If it's going to be a sentence or paragraph I usually:

Julio said in Spanish, "dialog."

I use sub-chapter headings, if all or most of it will be in Spanish. I do:
City of Chihuahua
3:15 PM Monday March 22nd 2018

(dialog is spoken in Spanish, but written in English, with some Spanish words in italics)

Acalde Espinosa said, "It is urgent we begin the evacuation as soon as possible. Priority should be given to important party officials. Don't you agree Senor Salazar?"

Darting his eyes to the other senior government officials, Salazar kicked his lips, then said, "Si Jefe."

Realizing he was dismissed, Salazar hastily departed the executive conference room.

I have received some negative comments, as well as constructive criticism. I do consider it. However, my story is partly set in Mexico. If it was set in NYC, or rural Alabama, I would use some regional dialect.

Second Sausalito is set in the bayous of Louisiana, and I really enjoy the use of both dialect and even Cajun to add color to the story.

Some of my favorite authors, such as JRR Tolkien, Tom Clancy, and Louis L'Amour used foreign (or made up) languages and dialect. I am nowhere near as good as them, but I doubt anyone has any more difficulty understanding my story than if I used perfect English.

I realize some people feel "put out of the story" when foreign languages are used.

For me, if characters in a story are buying tacos from a food truck run by a woman from Mexico, and she didn't respond "Gracias." to a tip, or a compliment it would take me out of a story.

I was assisting a fellow veteran who had bought a restaurant in Seattle. Several of the employees remained on staff. Legal immigrants, the Spanish I learned in the Army made working with them much easier. They knew what had to be done. Although I knew the specific repairs and other tasks to be done. How to do things to interfere as little possible, and have the most benefit required their input. I had to learn some more Spanish to get the jobs done.

Some words just don't translate properly. I prefer the original language word(s).

My two cents.

Cheers!

KimLittle ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and thoughts. I have started writing some scenes and think I've hit upon a method that works for me and (hopefully) doesn't jarr the audience out of the story flow.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

I am looking forward to reading your story.

LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ

@KimLittle

I think the important bit is, how significant it is someone speak a particular language, and why, and who's supposed to understand what, or not. I would go with only commenting on particular language use when it's interesting to do so. (Then, what I might write in English would by default be conveyed in translation, so that's a particular bias, perhaps.)

If two or more multilingual people on their own leisure cycle through languages for fun or style, or comfortably speak a different language each without any practical impact on the function of the overall dialogue, it's perhaps entirely enough to mention who speaks what language once or the switch between languages as it happens, if at all, and otherwise continue as if nothing. The different language use in this case might be part of the character, a bragging point in internal monologue or a conversation topic in it's own right, but otherwise unimportant.

If the second language is used for effect, to convey something inaccessible in the first language, that fragment probably needs to be verbatim, probably with some kind of explanation insert especially if the second language is particularly obscure. Or, maybe, an approximation with explanations of the nuance or additional meanings may be all for a particularly obscure language, especially if the obscure language is the in fact the default telling language?

If two speak in presence of a third who doesn't understand the first or the second language and it matters to the story (like, for example, parents using foreign language to discuss something not meant for the child's ears; or one of characters talking to a local in foreign setting) it would depend is the point of view understanding the obfuscant language: if they do then perhaps just a mention of the language use is sufficient if interesting, with organic mention why the switch happened, if not, the verbatim would perhaps be most appropriate, as it's also not to be understood for the reader either, without additional work or prior knowledge.

Replies:   Keet
Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@LupusDei

I think the important bit is, how significant it is someone speak a particular language, and why, and who's supposed to understand what, or not.

I just finished reading Wojtek's story A New Beginning and Beyond which is a good example of where a different language plays an important part in the story.

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