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working my way through the late? Phil Phantom's guide to writing

Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

I'm at the bit I expected to have trouble with, Dialogue. I am a man of very few words and rarely speak more than a few at any given time.

I am closing in on the end of the 1st draft of what I hope will be the first story I post here. The tale is at 72K words and there's a good 15-30 to go before I go back and put in the majority of the dialogue.

what advice can you give to someone doing this who is not inclined to mutter much of an utterance at any point. I'm guessing the dialogue will add yet another 15-30K words if I flesh out the scenes the way PP seems to suggest is a good way to go about things.

At the moment it's very much tell don't show but that was so I could get the bones down as quickly as possible while the juices were flowing as it were.

I'm expecting to write maybe 1/5th as many word words as telling words at a minimum though I don't know where this is going. Maybe 1/3rd speech would be a more noble aim. yes nearly all the plot points are written down. a lot of the scenes are well described but I need words to bring it to life and breath soul into the few characters that there are there. The story covers about 10-11 months and picks up every 4 weeks in a cycle so there has to be something. families don't got months without talking to each other or them selves when alone do they?

At a guess I'd say the dialogue will take as long as the whole rest of the story did in the first place even if there's only a minimal amount of it there.

I rarely talk. I don't like doing it, well doing it with my own voice. I'm happy to chatter away inside my head with thoughts all day as I go about my goings on here and there.

I'd gotten excited when I realised that I only had 6 weeks of story left in the draft but then I remembered the damned dialogue. it's not to say there's none there but it's maybe 2 - 5 % of what's needed to fill out the bones of my story that has taken far too long to write but I have enjoyed tapping away at a very loud keyboard for, for a few hundred hours all told with readings, edits in fits and spurts and cathartic streams of consciousness that spring forth seemingly at random.

I can describe quite well and with some level of craft when mood and muse permit. but dialogue has always been something I've struggled with. and yes I'm more than a little anti-social and don't get as much practice as I should even if I was in the mood to blurt out missives into the ether. So as stated i firmly fall into the suspenders train of though, dialogue bad. bad dialogue worse.

All the Dialogue needs to be between ~14 year olds ( a handful of them) and two parents (divorced), an uncle, a teacher and a lifelong friend with the honorary title Auntie.plus late in the piece a pair of tweens. One problem I have is that i barely remember 14 and the way speech was used even less, though I doubt I'll be setting any cats among the pigeons with decades out of date slang from a tiny spec at the arse end of the urban sprawl 100 Km from the nearest capital city.

I guess the question I need to ask is are any of the 'editors' here reasonable dialogue coaches?

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

I can't imagine writing the way you write. When I write, I see the story happening in my mind (like watching a movie). That includes the characters' dialogue and thoughts. When editing/revising I might change the dialogue, but I can't imagine leaving it out and coming back later and inserting the dialogue.

Tips for dialogue are things like:

1. People don't speak with good grammar. Often the subject is left out. For example, "I hate that place. Won't go there." (no "I" in the second sentence.)

2. I can't do it but, if you can, each character should have a unique voice.

3. You already know about the dialogue matching the character's age when you said they need to talk like 14-year-olds. That's hard to do. It's not only age, but education level too.

Replies:   Freyrs_stories
Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

yer, there's not no dialogue but there is very little. It was always a plan to go back and add some. but I'm significantly upping my estimation on the volume and quality required.
there are notes about what dialogue is required, very basically but it was more a case of I'll go back and fix it when I have a better idea how the characters 'talk'. I have a couple of things they say as 'in' jokes. like "I'll give you to the count of infinity to stop that." when it's something they're enjoying. I need a few more. I also have a pet name, 'Wombmate' as they're twins. I have also mentioned twin language, but it only shows up right at the end of the story so far. it might get slipped into an earlier note.

looks like I confounded the page count with the word count. it's 50K words 72 pages text. so the estimates of what's still due may be a little over but should be in the ball park. but I must ask a question, how long should a chapter be for an 80K word story? I can't expect people to read it in one go, that's a few hours worth. took me between 3 and 4 hrs to do the last over view and I found an inconsistency that I thought I'd taken out. I'd changed the names of two characters. turns out I didn't like the ones they started with and as they're important foils for the twins I should like their names. there was a spot with the old names still in place.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Freyrs_stories

there's not no dialogue but there is very little. It was always a plan to go back and add some

I do that with description. While writing, I'm consumed with getting the action and dialogue down, trying to type as fast as I "see" it happening in my mind. Then, when I edit/revise, I take more time writing and add description.

How long should a chapter be? I believe we've discussed this before. From what I read, there is no right or wrong answer. I also believe it's dependent on the genre. For example, Thrillers have short chapters while Fantasies have long chapters. I personally like short chapters, both as a reader and writer. From what I know about SOL readers, they like long chapters.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

From what I know about SOL readers, they like long chapters.

As a reader both on SOL and in dead tree, I lean towards preferring longer chapters, but there is such a thing as too long.

There is also a relationship between chapter length and over all story length. Longer stories should have longer chapters.

For anything around novel length, in the dead tree books I read, the sweat spot seems to be in the range of 18-25 chapters.

Quasirandom ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

I do that with description.

Ditto. My very first draft, some scenes are basically conversations by talking heads, with the occasional gesture or action. I've been known to forget to mention someone has crossed the room.

Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@Freyrs_stories

Seems like we all have different methods and weaknesses. I wonder if anyone would volunteer to look at this story either be or after the dialogue is added and comment on it. not actual editing more critique. Give me some pointers before I actually post it. as they say you only get one go at a first impression and I'd like my first story to actually post here have a good balance of all the things needed in a story. to support what I hope is an interesting narrative. post a comment here or 'mail' me to get in direct touch.

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