This is a question that has me wondering.
What country's English spells envelope without the final e(envelop)?
I am familiar with the differences in the King's English versus Canadian versus Australian versus American. I just have not seen that spelling until sometime this year. I have now read several stories that have that spelling, and MS Word doesn't show it as a misspelling.
being an old Canadian I was taught way back when that "envelop" was was to totally surround or cover something, and "envelope" was something you put a letter in before mailing it :)
I was taught way back when that "envelop" was was to totally surround or cover something, and "envelope" was something you put a letter in before mailing it
That's true of British English too, although it's a long time since I've actually encountered 'envelop'.
AJ
I've read that spelling in several stories recently (the last year) and every instance was about a document in it.
I was an English major in College (many, Many MANY years ago), and the spelling sort of bugs me.
People are pretty much completely enveloped by ignorance thanks to government "education".
I know this may shock some of you younger people, but once upon a time, you couldn't get into college if you couldn't read or write.
When I was in basic training in NC (Ft. Bragg) I made two friends, one from Tenn and one from Texas. Of course, being from Brooklyn, the one from Tenn and me often didn't understand each other and the Texan translated.
One time the Tenn guy asked if he could borrow and EN-VEL-IP (either with no syllable accented or maybe the first one, I don't remember). I had no idea what he was asking to borrow. The Texan told me it was an envelope. Considering how the Tenn guy pronounced it, he must have spelled it envelop.
Btw, the Tenn guy was doing his AIT at Ft. Dix in NJ and he knew that NJ was next to NY. His AIT was longer than mine so he knew I'd be home in Brooklyn while he was still in NJ. When he told me he'd look me up I offered to give him my address. His response was something like, "Nah, I'll just ask someone where you live." His hometown must have had 50 people.
His response was something like, "Nah, I'll just ask someone where you live." His hometown must have had 50 people.
That was once a valid method of looking someone up, but I doubt it would work these days.
That was once a valid method of looking someone up, but I doubt it would work these days.
I doubt that would have ever worked in a large city such as New York.
It will still work in most small towns (for values of small where small = population less 500). My mom grew up in one of those towns.
One of her brothers would ship packages via UPS as late as the early 2000s addressed:
Family Name,
Town, State, Zip
They didn't even have house numbers until sometime between 1990 and 2010.
People who grew up in big cities and have no experience wit really small towns have no idea what that life is like and the reverse is true as well.
experience wit(h) really small towns
Army brat here, I lived a lot of places. The smallest town was Tomah, Wisconsin. I lived there in about 1950 so the following Wiki data may overstate its size then. If your grandfather didn't move there with their grandparents, you would never be welcome to live there. There were a lot of farmers, some raised cranberries.
"Tomah is a town in Monroe County, Wisconsin, United States. The population was 1,194 at the 2000 census. It lies adjacent to the city of Tomah.
Geography
According to the United States Census Bureau, the town has a total area of 31.5 square miles (81.6 km2), all of it land.
Demographics
As of the census[2] of 2000, there were 1,194 people, 428 households, and 338 families residing in the town. The population density was 37.9 people per square mile (14.6/km2). There were 445 housing units at an average density of 14.1 per square mile (5.5/km2). The racial makeup of the town was 97.49% White, 0.92% Black or African American, 0.25% Native American, 0.67% Asian, and 0.67% from two or more races. 0.75% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
There were 428 households, out of which 36.4% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 70.6% were married couples living together, 5.8% had a female householder with no husband present, and 21.0% were non-families. 17.8% of all households were made up of individuals, and 7.7% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.79 and the average family size was 3.17.
In the town, the population was spread out, with 29.0% under the age of 18, 6.4% from 18 to 24, 28.6% from 25 to 44, 23.5% from 45 to 64, and 12.6% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 37 years. For every 100 females, there were 102.0 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 99.5 males.
The median income for a household in the town was $46,923, and the median income for a family was $52,639. Males had a median income of $32,361 versus $23,417 for females. The per capita income for the town was $18,065. About 4.6% of families and 8.3% of the population were below the poverty line, including 14.4% of those under age 18 and 5.5% of those age 65 or over."
Army brat here, I lived a lot of places. The smallest town was Tomah, Wisconsin.
My mom grew up on a farm just outside of Cazenovia, Wisconsin, population as of the 2010 census: 318.
ETA: Cazenovia is about 43 miles (by road) SSE of Tomah.
ETA2:
https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/wisconsin/wi-teeny-tiny-towns-wisconsin/
Officially the smallest recorded town in the state, Eland's 202 people are in Shawano County, outside of Wausau. The lush surroundings and awesome outdoor activities make it an ideal spot.
I doubt that would have ever worked in a large city such as New York.
It will still work in most small towns (for values of small where small = population less 500). My mom grew up in one of those towns.
Maybe back in 1700, but no, not after it became an actual city. Where I live now, in theory, I could shoot a 30-30 rifle in any direction and the bullet would hit the ground before ever threatening a neighbor. Nearest gas station is ten miles, nearest WalMart is thirty miles.
Maybe back in 1700, but no, not after it became an actual city.
Was it actually called New York in duplication of the state name before it was large enough to be a city?
That is was there ever a village or town of New York?
Maybe back in 1700, but no, not after it became an actual city.
Was it actually called New York
Manhattan was New York County. Brooklyn was Kings County. According to Wikipedia, NYC was formed in 1898 with the cosolidation of what is the 5 burroughs.
Manhattan and the Bronx were New York City from the 1600s. The consolidation of the city in 1898 added Kings, Queens and Richmond to the existing city.
Before New York State was named after the Duke of York it was part of the New Netherlands colony that ran from the Delaware River to, and including parts of New England. The Duke of York sold parts of the colony to others leaving the existing state.
Manhattan and the Bronx were New York City from the 1600s.
It wasn't New York City back then. From what I read, NYC was formed by merging counties (e.g., New York County (Manhattan), Kings County (Brooklyn), Richmond County (Staten Island), Queens County (Queens), and annexing land to form the Bronx). I don't think they even taught us that in NYC public schools.
No, the city existed beginning with the conquest by the English in 1664. Here's a link to records of the mayor's court of the City of New York from that time:
https://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/NYCMA~12~12~48~1206340:Records-of-the-Mayor-s-Courts-of-th?sort=identifier%2Ctitle%2Cdate%2Cdescription&qvq=sort:identifier%2Ctitle%2Cdate%2Cdescription;lc:NYCMA~12~12&mi=39&trs=48
. the island of Manhattan was declared by an act in 1691 as the City and County of New York. I was wrong about the Bronx. The City annexed parts of the Bronx beginning in the 1870s to 1895 when the entirety of the Bronx became part of the city. The consolidation act establishing "Greater New York" merged the counties of Kings, Queens and Richmond into the city in 1898.
Was it actually called New York in duplication of the state name before it was large enough to be a city?
I am reasonably sure it was New Amsterdam before it was New York. The English took over from the Dutch.
"THIS DAY IN HISTORY
SEPTEMBER 08
1664
September 08
New Amsterdam becomes New York
Dutch Governor Peter Stuyvesant surrenders New Amsterdam, the capital of New Netherland, to an English naval squadron under Colonel Richard Nicolls. Stuyvesant had hoped to resist the English, but he was an unpopular ruler, and his Dutch subjects refused to rally around him. Following its capture, New Amsterdam's name was changed to New York, in honor of the Duke of York, who organized the mission.
The colony of New Netherland was established by the Dutch West India Company in 1624 and grew to encompass all of present-day New York City and parts of Long Island, Connecticut and New Jersey. A successful Dutch settlement in the colony grew up on the southern tip of Manhattan Island and was christened New Amsterdam.
To legitimatize Dutch claims to New Amsterdam, Dutch governor Peter Minuit formally purchased Manhattan from the local tribe from which it derives it name in 1626. According to legend, the Manhattans–Indians of Algonquian linguistic stock–agreed to give up the island in exchange for trinkets valued at only $24. However, as they were ignorant of European customs of property and contracts, it was not long before the Manhattans came into armed conflict with the expanding Dutch settlement at New Amsterdam. Beginning in 1641, a protracted war was fought between the colonists and the Manhattans, which resulted in the death of more than 1,000 Indians and settlers.
In 1664, New Amsterdam passed to English control, and English and Dutch settlers lived together peacefully. In 1673, there was a short interruption of English rule when the Netherlands temporary regained the settlement. In 1674, New York was returned to the English, and in 1686 it became the first city in the colonies to receive a royal charter. After the American Revolution, it became the first capital of the United States.
Citation Information
Article Title
New Amsterdam becomes New York
Author
History.com Editors
Website Name
HISTORY
URL
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/new-amsterdam-becomes-new-york
Access Date
December 28, 2021
Publisher
A&E Television Networks
Last Updated
September 2, 2020
Original Published Date
February 9, 2010
COLONIAL AMERICA
BY HISTORY.COM EDITORS"
New Amsterdam's name was changed to New York, in honor of the Duke of York
Who on earth would name a city in honour of Prince Andrew!
AJ
Who on earth would name a city in honour of Prince Andrew!
Prince Andrew isn't old enough to have been the Duke of York in 1664.
That would be https://www.britannica.com/biography/James-II-king-of-England-Scotland-and-Ireland
I remember the authorities pretending the Princess of Wales Conservatory at Kew Gardens wasn't named after Diana but an earlier Princess of Wales after Di cheated on Chas and the marriage etc broke down.
AJ
I remember the authorities pretending the Princess of Wales Conservatory at Kew Gardens wasn't named after Diana but an earlier Princess of Wales
Maybe, but in the case of New Amsterdam/New York, the renaming happened centuries before the sitting Duke of York was born.
Maybe, but in the case of New Amsterdam/New York, the renaming happened centuries before the sitting Duke of York was born.
Yes, but his daughter and son-in-law tried to capture and kill the one who the city and state were named for.
Yes, but his daughter and son-in-law tried to capture and kill the one who the city and state were named for.
Did they steal Bill & Ted's time traveling phone booth?
Guess I phrased that wrong.
"Yes, but the one it was named for was chased by his daughter and son-in-law who tried to capture and kill him."
Guess I phrased that wrong.
It might have been less confusing the way you originally worded it if the comment you were replying to hadn't mentioned the current Duke of York.
I am reasonably sure it was New Amsterdam before it was New York. The English took over from the Dutch.
Isn't it about time the name was decolonised and replaced by a suitable name from the first people? ;-)
AJ
In the 17th century Wall Street was the meeting place for slave traders that also marked the end of western civilization. Nothing has changed.
Who on earth would name a city in honour of Prince Andrew!
Cumming, GA?
Hopeulikit, GA?
Note: pronounced "hope you like it",
but in his case, "hope you lick it" seems to be more appropriate, as is:
Twatt, Orkney Islands, Scotland.
Cumming, GA?
Hopeulikit, GA?
Note: pronounced "hope you like it",
but in his case, "hope you lick it" seems to be more appropriate, as is:
Twatt, Orkney Islands, Scotland.
Cumming, GA?
Ha! When I was in basic training, my girlfriend (now my wife) visited the Amish country in Penn. She sent me two cardboard signs of towns: Intercourse and Blue Ball. Unfortunately, the paper she wrapped them in was see-thru so I got called out of formation at mail call to explain.
Unfortunately, the paper she wrapped them in was see-thru so I got called out of formation at mail call to explain.
Sounds deliberate.... LOL
Cumming, GA?
There was – until recently – a small town in Austria, Fucking.
People came to see and got photographed standing near the town sign, and at least once a year they had to replace the stolen signs.
Those "tourists" didn't stay there any longer than necessary for a photo or a video clip and left no money in Fucking.
This year the little town was officially renamed Fugging.
FYI, place names ending on 'gging' and 'cking' are quite common in southern Bavaria and Austria.
HM.
"Fug" was the substitute that Norman Mailer used for "fuck" in his breakthough book the Naked and the Dead. In the 60s the somewhat lewd underground group the Fugs took the novel's word for their name. thefugs.com
