Home » Forum » Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

Yet Another Dumb Question (One of my Last)

Vincent Berg 🚫

Quick formatting question, I'm using "An Ill Wind Blows"—somewhat mangling a common cliche—which is itself a mangling of the original usage. So, which is correct: "An Ill Wind Blows" or "An Ill-Wind Blows", since it's an adjective-noun adverbial phrase?

This isn't a major point, as I doubt any one will question it's usage, but I'm just curious, as I've NEVER seen the phrase spelled out "an ill-wind is blowing"—though that's not technically the same thing.

Replies:   Quasirandom
Quasirandom 🚫

@Vincent Berg

No hyphen. Ill is an adjective and not part of a compound noun. The clause itself is not an adverbial phrase — it's a complete sentence.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Quasirandom

Thanks. I know which phrase does which, but I'm not always sure which is an adverb and which an adjective (the noun should clue me in).

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

which is an adverb and which an adjective

"Why Not Adnoun?

Posted on November 5, 2013 by Lorrie Nicoles • 4 Comments

So, I've been wondering why a word that describes a verb is an adverb, but a word that describes a noun is an adjective – instead of an adnoun. Finally, I went to the all-knowing Google and came up with some interesting things.

There Is an Adnoun!

I was surprised to find that Google did not give me a "did you mean" when I searched for adnoun. Instead I got links! One to what should be the favorite site of all horrid spellers – dictionary.com, and a second to Wikipedia. In this case, Wikipedia did more for me than the dictionary. Apparently, an adnoun is an adjective without a noun.

Let's take a uniformly known example: Blessed are the meek. You don't have to agree, but you have probably heard the phrase and know the meaning.

As the subject of the sentence, "meek" would be the noun. But, going back to my friend dictionary.com, meek is not a noun, it is an adjective. So, in this case, "meek" becomes an adnoun.

How cool is that? Not, actually.

Origin of Words

Now my problem was that, as a word, adnoun has not been around as long as the others.

According to the Online Etymology Dictionary (something I discovered during this research), the word "noun" came about in the late 14th century and ultimately comes from the Latin nomen for "name." Similarly, "verb" also entered the English language some time in the late 14th century and comes from the Latin verbum. "Adverb" came around about the same time as "noun" and "verb" and is from the Latin adverbium witch literally translates as "that which is added to the verb."

So, shouldn't "that which is added to the noun" in Latin be something like an adnomen? But no, we get adjectivum instead! I tried several Latin to English on-line dictionaries; none of them could tell me what jectivum means.

So, where the heck did "adjective" come from?

What is a Jective?

Someone asked this question to Yahoo, the only response was that it was from the Latin (big surprise there) jacere meaning "to throw."

Well, that doesn't work for me either. Especially since my on-line translators don't particularly care for jacere either. However, instead of no response, I was able to find jaceo and jacio. The first relating to being horizontal or situated and the second to throw or hurl.

And the Point Would Be?

Simple Instructions

Don't you wish English was always this simple?

Photo by L. Nicoles, 2008

Well, there isn't one really. Except that this is my blog, and I get to write about whatever I want.

I do like that modern English does include an adnoun, but it is not what it should be. And, if I tried to use it in conversation, I'd probably shoot any credibility I have all to pieces.

Not like we needed another example, but I think that I have proven that the English language is as clear as mud when it comes to the rules.

– Lorrie Nicoles"

Replies:   Vincent Berg  BlacKnight
Vincent Berg 🚫

@richardshagrin

Apparently, an adnoun is an adjective without a noun.

That sounds more like an anonymous adjective, rather than 'adding' to an existing noun. ;)

By the way, whenever I look up words—which is often—I always head for the etymology to see how the word developed, as it gives a better flavor for how the various usages originated.

As for fractured phrases, how's this one: Blessed are the bleary; for they still see evil, but not well enough to be sorely tempted!

BlacKnight 🚫

@richardshagrin

The more common term for the "adnoun" is "nominal adjective". Old English used them very heavily, but usage dropped as the language evolved. Modern English still uses them, but much more sparingly.

Note also that there are different classes of adverb, and not all of them can modify verbs. Some only modify adjectives or other adverbs. For example, "fiercely" is an adverb. You can say:

"An ill wind blows fiercely." ("fiercely" modifies the verb "blows")

or

"A fiercely ill wind blows." ("fiercely" modifies the adjective "ill", which in turn modifies the noun "wind")

but not

"An ill fiercely wind blows." ("fiercely" cannot modify the noun "wind")

But on the other hand, "very" is also an adverb, an intensifier. It can modify adjectives or other adverbs, but not verbs. You can say:

"A very ill wind blows." ("very" modifies the adjective "ill", which modifies the noun "wind")

or

"An ill wind blows very fiercely." ("very" modifies the adverb "fiercely", which in turn modifies the verb "blows")

but not:

"An ill wind very blows." ("very" cannot directly modify the verb "blows")

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Quasirandom

No matter the direction, in Winter the gales always blow ill-windily. ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Quasirandom
Quasirandom 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Now that use wants the hyphen.

Back to Top

 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In