Forum: Author Hangout

If I can't stir readers' emotions, I wouldn't write.

That wasn't the point. Readers still prefer involving stories, but the no longer seem to appreciate the gratuitous sex, violence and routine curse words, preferring to 'skip' those more graphic descriptions. Thus, if I'm correct, it'll take a little more consideration regarding how we approach writing our stories in the future.

But again, I suspect that the SOL community is sheltered from that, since so many are drawn to SOL specifically for the gratuitous graphic sex scenes. So, I was mainly wondering whether any of us publishing their own novels had noticed complaints or the corresponding drops in reviews and/or sales.

In my case, it's primarily the direct response from beta-readers. My newest story begins with a brother walking in on his sister in bed with her best friend. The scene was not graphic at all, focusing on the brother's reactions, rather than the actions of the girls, but my beta-reader, who's read each of my 23 novels, quit reading and it took her days before she could resume.

It's generally not helpful when readers aren't able to read the opening chapter of their books, so red penalty flags started popping up all over the place.

but the no longer seem to appreciate the gratuitous sex, violence and routine curse words, preferring to 'skip' those more graphic descriptions

I see them as graphic, but not gratuitous.

I see them as graphic, but not gratuitous.

Unfortunately, they're flip sides of the same coin. While yours might be central to the plot, it's all part of the 'realism' school, demanding that authors keep their stories 'real' by exposing the seamier underbelly of life.

As I said earlier, for a long time, fairly graphic sex scenes were practically required if romance was involved. Now (from what I'm seeing lately) not so much.

the score dropped when I had the rape/abuse scenes. But I would have done it again. The bad guys were really bad guys.

In my The Holes Binding Us Together I chose to avoid any graphic scenes, because the story involved underaged familial sexual abuse, but the final scene had a confrontation between the girl and her abuser, however I got away without a 'rape' tag because, though he wanted to, she successfully fought him off, providing a dramatic resolution to the story. However, despite handling it delicately, the story still wasn't popular, given the unpopular subject matter.

any of us publishing their own novels had noticed complaints or the corresponding drops in reviews and/or sales.

In "High School Massacre" the score dropped when I had the rape/abuse scenes. But I would have done it again. The bad guys were really bad guys.

Or as a recent comment to a recent chapter post of mine said, "Your trip to the girls locker room and the sleep over showed amazing restraint.

In that case, that might be a reflection on your writing style, if they're comparing your new, more graphic chapters to your level of restraint.

As I noted, readers still enjoy an engaging and exciting story, but following the pandemic, they seem less inclined to focus on the negative aspects of life, having lived through too many harsh realities for the past year. Now, they appear more inclined to 'escapist' literature, even if that's an exploration of the ravages of the 2nd World War (a current hot topic among British-based publications the last few years).

In that case, that might be a reflection on your writing style, if they're comparing your new, more graphic chapters get comments on your level of restraint.

That is an interesting view, and one that I hadn't considered.

That is an interesting view, and one that I hadn't considered.

As I said, changing old, comfortable write styles isn't always easy. There are frequently hiccups, as you adjust to it, sometimes going overboard and other times undershooting your target. You'll eventually get your aim back, but it's leaning an all new process, which generally takes time.

Good vs. Evil can still drive a narrative.

As well as can good vs. counter-good. As long as there's a conflict, there's a story, and too often, authors rely on the 'Evil' antagonist, rather than simply conflicting beliefs. Why invent evil when there are much more plausible motivators?

There is still the question of evil, which some define as "causing pain to another human being.

As anyone who's ever watched reruns of "Law & Order" can attest, that's not an enforceable definition, as best it would receive a reduced charge as there's no 'malicious intent', conceivably the minimal definition of "evil".

Just because someone got their feelings hurt doesn't diminish the other person's value as a human being. It's imminently possible for good people to hurt those they love, even intentionally, but that's situational, as it's the result of circumstances, not a sign of the devil incarnate.

I'd question the stance that the depressing, seamier, harsher aspects of life equates with "realistic." That's simply not factual. We live in the safest, most peaceful, most prosperous period the world has ever known.

I think that's the reason. While everyone (in the majority) is safe and secure, everyone hungers for realism. But, once they're exposed to real adversity, and witness wholesale death by the hundreds of thousands, and they lose their taste for it.

But before the 'realism' school started up, the widespread use of violence, language and public nudity was virtually verboten in literature and film. It both opened doors, while setting unrealistic expectations. Thus, I'm not defending it, just noting trends I'm observing, and wondering how an entire generation of writers raised under this approach is going to cope as it's suddenly whipped away.

@Remus2

How an author can cover that without being an evil shit themselves is beyond me.

For most of us, we never went whole hog on it, instead using it for emphasis, mostly because it was expected by everyone: readers and publishers alike, as well as editors, while they didn't always appreciate it, were used to it and didn't seriously questioned it.

(I don't disagree we are turning on one another, but I think that's a consequence of ease and plenty.)

You hardly have to go back to prehistory. There was a lot of racist attacks and racial hatred during WW II, or any war, but those working together against a common foe unites, battling against perceived foes based purely on one's political interests doesn't, and the response varies based upon who's listening at the moment.

Although racial hatred of any kind is heinous, at least there's a unifying intent. It's when that intent is directed, not at the common enemy, but at whoever is currently the most unpopular (ex: blacks, Muslims or Asians) that the system breaks down.

The fact of the matter is that someone is always 'the enemy', and once you assign one, it's a simply matter to ladel in whoever else you want.

What's left of my writers' group also seems to be heading away from realism but in the opposite direction - making stories more depressing and gory. The market for horror particularly seems to be booming. Perhaps readers like reading about people who are worse off than themselves.

That was my other observation: while the publishing world is abandoning realism, they're making up for it with dramatic depictions of 'hard times', showcasing the characters' sufferings, rather than realistic depictions of sex, violence and language.

But the horror genre has it's own preferences, and readers will generally reject anything which doesn't conform to those preconceptions. Thus, if you write a story that's normally included in the Horror genre, they'll flat out reject it. The Romance genre was the same way for a long time, but now that 90+ of all books are classified as Romance, it's easy enough to get around nowadays.

Only the first chapter is the actual high school shooting, but I don't think that mattered.

That's the trouble for most authors, if you lose readers in the first chapter, it doesn't really matter what comes later.

That's the trouble for most authors, if you lose readers in the first chapter, it doesn't really matter what comes later.

They never read the first chapter. The title "High School Massacre" and the bloody book cover (which my wife said looks more like horror than thriller or erotica) did it.

*bloody* as in literally bloody, not like when a Brit says "bloody something."

*bloody* as in literally bloody, not like when a Brit says "bloody something."

Like when they say "That's bloody f**king bloody!" But yeah, I can understand that reaction. That's why cover design is so important, you want the cover to reflect the book's conflict, so readers know what the book is about, not showcasing a specific scene to showcase how brutal the crime was.