Ok, this is more out of curiosity rather than any other reason.
Why is there a period after a terminator and endquote? Doesn't the terminator signal the end of the sentence?
Ok, this is more out of curiosity rather than any other reason.
Why is there a period after a terminator and endquote? Doesn't the terminator signal the end of the sentence?
Why is there a period after a terminator and endquote? Doesn't the terminator signal the end of the sentence?
Because the "quotation" is only a part of the sentence, and may not be the end of it.
"Stop!", I said. "Don't go there!".
The above is a perfect example of that. In the first, there is following text that is in the same sentence. You treat the quote and everything inside as if it is a word.
Because the "quotation" is only a part of the sentence, and may not be the end of it.
"Stop!", I said. "Don't go there!".
That's not a great example, as the "she said" is actually NOT a part of the quoted text. A better example would be:
"'Stop!', she said, before I rushed in to help."It's a bit more convoluted, but in most cases, many newbie writers aren't clear on how to handle punctuation for sentence breaks. As noted earlier, explanation points and exclamation marks end sentence, and while I'll often add a separate question in Forum posts (within parentheses, of course), in literature, it happens less often.
That's not a great example, as the "she said" is actually NOT a part of the quoted text.
It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to show why there would be punctuation following the closing quotation mark even though there was punctuation preceding it.
As noted earlier, explanation points and exclamation marks
What the fuck is an explanation point????
What the fuck is an explanation point????
I believe it's used to indicate when you mansplain things
From Purdue University's Online Writing Lab (OWL):
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/punctuation/quotation_marks/more_quotation_mark_rules.html
Place a question mark or exclamation point within closing quotation marks if the punctuation applies to the quotation itself. Place the punctuation outside the closing quotation marks if the punctuation applies to the whole sentence.
Phillip asked, "Do you need this book?"
Does Dr. Lim always say to her students, "You must work harder"?
Does Dr. Lim always say to her students, "Zie must strive harder to figure out the convoluted examples, no? Ha-ha-ha!"Does Dr. Lim always say to her students, "You must work harder"?
Does Dr. Lim always say to her students, "Zie must strive harder to figure out the convoluted examples, no? Ha-ha-ha!"
That makes her sound like a real Grammar Nazi.
Purdue University's Online Writing Lab
It's really weird that they use double quotes for both speech and quotations. Given that, the examples they give seem to be correct but the justifications are unusual.
AJ
It's really weird that they use double quotes for both speech and quotations.
In American English, you use double quotes for everything except a quote within a quote.
It's really weird that they use double quotes for both speech and quotations.
In American English, you use double quotes for everything except a quote within a quote.
Which is the reason you use them for both speech and quotations, as that allows you to include quotes-within-quotes in both cases (useful for interviews and various literary techniques both).
Spring Chicken!
I'd rather be a Spring Chicken (still able to dance around) than a Spicy or Breaded Chicken!
?".
We need more context. Is the author using double quotes for speech, in which case it's wrong, or for quotations, in which case there might be an argument for it?
AJ
Why is there a period after a terminator and endquote? Doesn't the terminator signal the end of the sentence?
There should not be a period. The question mark functions as the end of both the question inside the quotes and the end of the sentence. An exclamation point does too.
The question mark functions as the end of both the question inside the quotes and the end of the sentence.
If it's speech, the question mark functions as the end of the speech but not necessarily the end of the sentence.
"Are you coming to the beach this morning?" she asked.
The question mark marks the end of the speech but the full stop marks the end of the sentence including the dialogue tag.
AJ
The question mark marks the end of the speech but the full stop marks the end of the sentence including the dialogue tag.
True, but since the question mark effectively ends the spoken sentence, there's no need for the additional comma, confusing things. Again, the problem is not knowing how and when English sentences end.
When using question mark or exclamation mark within quotes, there is no need to include a full stop, viz 'Get off me,' she cried, "you damned oaf!' is correct, while '... oaf!'. is wrong.
Also, in printed British English single quotes are preferred as they blend into the text better, with quotes within quotes are double, viz 'You are so "dope", darlin'!' In handwritten English we are taught to double-quote dialogue, but single-quote expressions in general text.
In handwritten English
Thank you, I wasn't aware of that distinction. I will continue to type my stories using handwritten English. Nobody has explicitly complained about it so far, so either nobody reads my stories or they quickly adapt.
AJ
Thank you, I wasn't aware of that distinction. I will continue to type my stories using handwritten English. Nobody has explicitly complained about it so far, so either nobody reads my stories or they quickly adapt.
That's common, as just like in sci-fi and fantasy world building, an author (in each story) has a limited time to establish their own styles, and as long as you keep to those styles of writing, readers will both accept and adapt. But, just like late story hail-mark endings, if you suddenly reverse course or even worse, change your mind mid-story, expect a LOT of grief over it!
in printed British English single quotes are preferred
I never heard that. When you read a printed novel from a traditional publisher in the UK, is that convention followed? Single quotes rather than double quotes?
When you read a printed novel from a traditional publisher in the UK, is that convention followed? Single quotes rather than double quotes?
I'm not sure it's possible to tell. A Rowling novel uses single quotes for dialogue, bu I get the impression her books were produced with the US market in mind. A modern reprint of a Dickens also uses single quotes.
AJ
A Rowling novel uses single quotes for dialogue, bu I get the impression her books were produced with the US market in mind.
Then it would have double quotes. That's the U.S. convention. It probably has British spelling too. Maybe they have separate versions to be sold in different markets, like they do when they translate it to French for the French market.
So the Brits use single quotes. But what's really weird is that not for handwritten.
Then it would have double quotes.
That explains why a John Grisham novel has double quotes for dialogue.
AJ
Of course I googled it. Found this in the first result:
If you are an American, using quotation marks could hardly be simpler: Use double quotation marks at all times unless quoting something within a quotation, when you use single. It's different in the greater Anglosphere, where they generally use singles in books and doubles in newspapers.
It didn't mention handwritten, but it did say newspapers were different than books.
Have you noticed newspapers in the UK use double quotes?
Have you noticed newspapers in the UK use double quotes?
My newspaper du jour uses double quotes for speech. However it uses both single and double quotes for quotations.
AJ
Hmm, I just checked two editions of a title published by an British publisher (Orbit) and an American publisher (Ace).
It's "Crisis on Doona" by Ann McCaffrey & Jody Lynn Nye.
Chapter one (Ace) begins with:
"Mayday, Mayday," a voice repeated over and over again in Middle Hrruban through thick static on the audio pickup.
Chapter 1 (Orbit) starts with:
'MAYDAY, MAYDAY,' A VOICE REPEATED over and over again in Middle Hrruban through thick static on the audio pickup.
Apart from the double quotes/single quotes there are two other differences between both editions: the first line of the British edition is all capitals and the chapter titles are different.
(American) chapter one (lower case and one as word)
(British) Chapter 1
I doubt Ann McCaffrey provided two versions for her publishers and we will never know what she really wrote.
For those of you who want to know why I bought both: the Ace book is an omnibus edition with "Treaty at Doona" and the omnibus is titled "Doona". Back then I had already "Crisis..." but couldn't get "Treaty..." so I bought the omnibus.
BTW, I checked my Harry Potter books and one is an US edition. The Britisch editions use single quotes, while the American edition uses double quotes.
HM.
HM.
the first line of the British edition is all capitals
If you notice, the first line isn't all caps. Often publishers capitalize the beginning of the first sentence in a chapter. Why it was done with one edition but not the other probably has nothing to do with it being U.S. vs U.K. Same with the differences in chapter titles. Someone simply decided to do it that way for that printing.
Britisch
"britisch-deutsch - Translation from German into English |
Look up the German to English translation of britisch-deutsch in the PONS online dictionary."
After clicking "Post" I remembered that I've the Potter books as ebooks to. I just looked and my verions use the British single quotes.
HM.
I've noticed with a lot of works out of Baen Books that the first five or six words of each chapter are all caps. I don't know why they do that, but they do.
BTW: I've a lot of McCaffrey's book printed by Corgi in the UK and not one of them has the all caps start to a chapter. But they do all have the single quotes for dialogue, while the few US printed books I have have the double quotes.
Another oddity is I have some David Weber books that were printed in the UK and they have the double quotes.
The all caps thing seems to vary between publishers.
Back before Ebooks when I was a slave to paying $20-$30 for the latest hardback release from my favorite author. I would often order them from England as they were sometimes published half a year or more earlier then in the US. Those versions usually had the single quote practice. You also had to get used to the English spellings for many words. Still, it was better then waiting a year.
Now, publishers seem to sync releases worldwide. Not that I buy many traditionally published stories anymore. Why pay $$$ for a tired short serial story from a big name when the internet is flooded with self published authors putting out just as good a story but at a fraction of the cost. Those authors usually make more on the deal too.
I never heard that. When you read a printed novel from a traditional publisher in the UK, is that convention followed? Single quotes rather than double quotes?
It's been long established that 'Brit English' users the world over traditionally prefer double quotes within single quotes (i.e. the default in dialogue is single quotes), while in American the reverse was true (i.e. single quotes within double quotes).
However, over time that's gradually been phasing out, as more and more authors and publishing houses are now clinging to the American trends, simply because the U.S. market (aka. Amazon) is so prevalent!