There are plenty of stories set in, inspired, or just mentioning DnD (and their relatives), video games, fantasy universes. But I see almost none set in Warhammer Fantasy world. It is simply so unpopular, or (as I have heard) GW just outright forbid any fan-fiction based on their settings?
Warhammer is a lot less well known. Hell, even among gamers, Warhammer is way less common than Warhammer40k
D&D is so normally considered to be based in wildly different settings (G.G.G actually named his inspirations for D&D, and they were not major commercial successes as novels...but the system was actually far more suited to the novels he listed than the books most people assume D&D was based on) that the mere presence of Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, etc are enough for most to consider it 'D&D based'.
GW keep a tight reign on their IP. Also, because of the preferred target audience (young kids) of Games Workshop, they have to tread warily. Because of this and changing public perception, they 'nerfed' most of their cannon, making it less Clive Barkarish and more Peppa pig. This can be seen in their models and literature. Look at codex's from the late 80's and early nineties and compare them with modern day ones. Especially the Chaos ones. Out have gone the succubi with their bared breasts (both in artwork and actual physical models)and in came less nude/gruesome ones.
Which when you think about it, really defeats the point as a kid in having a Chaos army (modern day as opposed to an 80's/90's era Chaos army)...LOL
There is also the Black Library. Read the first novels, Space Marine/ Inquisitor etc, and they read like Ian Watson was in the middle of a drug induced fever dream when he wrote them. Ironically, the books are all the better for it. Modern day novels are very tame, with scenes of 'mild peril' at best. Due to constrictions demanded by GW of their authors, (in that they have to be 'PG')and rumoured poor pay for the work, very few good authors are attracted to the work.
On top of all that was the closing down of their own forums. No one could see why at the time, though again, the rumour at the time was it was because of the content. There was a lot of older players/fans on the forums who wrote with the old cannon in mind. And as such, their fan fiction could best be described as being 'troublesome' for the more snowflake generation. Having to police the forums for language, content, bullying, etc etc, was alleged to have been a considerable financial drain and at the urging of the company's lawyers worried about the tone and content, the decision was taken to shut them down in order to save money and potential bad press over any 'satanic' allegations. Thank you America for that (and it was mainly America, with it's religious fanatics and high levels of mass school shootings carried out by pupils, after all, it couldn't be their upbringing that was the cause, but the little plastic toys they played with and painted that were the cause of such tragedy.)
Interestingly enough, Hornby made the exact same decision. They decided that the 'money' was in kids and tailored their produce to suit. A decision that almost brought the company to it's knees and bankruptcy. A hasty change of MD and direction back to an 'older' customer base literally saved the company overnight. A situation and decision that GW was about to find themselves in, however a couple of small films released by a Braindead director, was about to prove their unlikely saviour and save their anal rings from the fire...Which was a double edged sword. Now most adults assume the hobby to be one for kids and not adults.
Which given the cost of GW models these days, is a bonkers situation. Had they kept their adult audience, then they would have kept the superior financially-able player base, and that would be reflected in the associated produce, like artwork and novels. But they didn't, so they haven't, and that trickles down to writing, not many children write interesting and thought provoking Warhammer work, and the children of today are the adults of tomorrow..
I've read some Black Library novels, the best can be only described as "average", with most being bad or aweful in quality. And I totaly agree on your point that an awesome dark/adult fantasy world was watered down to kindergarten level.
But returning to my original question. From you post I see that GW are seriously not favorable of anything they don't approve beforehand, and if I decided to make a smutty story in the setting (we are on a site dedicated to smutty stories, after all), sooner or later I'd be told to delete it because of IP and similar things, right?
From you post I see that GW are seriously not favorable of anything they don't approve beforehand, and if I decided to make a smutty story in the setting (we are on a site dedicated to smutty stories, after all), sooner or later I'd be told to delete it because of IP and similar things, right?
Obviously, Disney protects their IP drastically, but there are adult stories in their universes as fan fiction here, same as with the Harry Potter-verse. Fair use and parody means you're probably fine, but if they bitch, you'd have to remove it.
One VERY key thing is that if you're going to set it blatantly in their universe that you NOT put it on Bookapy or otherwise try to market it for profit. The most famous example of a fan fiction that was set in an existing universe and then changed is Fifty Shades of Grey, which was originally a 'Twilight' fan-fic.
I've done a LOT of digging along this myself, simply due to my own writing. Bethesda allows modifications and fair use so long as you don't try to profit from it, so I can write stories using Skyrim and Fallout specifically, including their settings and equipment, without having to change things into a more generic structure. Obviously, so long as I don't try to sell them.
The other two large novels of mine that are for sale? Generic superhero powers. While the names are owned, the abilities themselves are basically open-source. So, I avoid the names, other than in passing reference to the 'graphic novels' or 'comic books'.
sooner or later I'd be told to delete it because of IP and similar things, right?
Only if GW became aware of your story, something that is probably unlikely to happen.
He he. I always believed that the early GW was an insane asylum. Some bright, but lazy Psychiatrists just copied the art, diaries and craft class sculptures. Then they sold it all.
Early GW was indeed brilliant, and plagiarism was rife. Which sadly terrified the lawyers the company was sold to.
I don't think the lawyers of GW are that bothered about Fan-Fic per-say (Like I said, they used to host their own fan-fic portal), as many smaller sites took over the burden when the Black Library shut down (Imp-Lit and the Bolt-hole,for instance). In fact, users were un-officially pushed in that direction. However, the caveat was that those sites do not allow anything that breaks obscenity law.
Should you start writing stories that do, and publish them, then in order to protect their image as being a 'family friendly' firm, then I can see their lawyers coming down on you like a proverbial ton of bricks.
I think the main issue about a lack of Warhammer fanfic, is that the genre is pretty much done to death in the normal fantasy genre. WH never really brought anything new to the proverbial table-top like 40K did. 40K had a good central 'plot' and lots of potential for fertile imaginations. WH on the other hand, didn't have a central plot and was populated with Dwarves, Humans and Elves and was very Tolkienesque in its origins. Which was pretty much the fantasy staple in those days. And still is. In fact, I have to laugh now that people are now complaining that the Dwarf/Human/Elf staple is in fact, racist and fuels racial stereotyping... (Facepalm)
It's also worth pointing out that even when GW ran their own forums, WH fanfic was very thin on the ground and of even lower quality than the average 40K fanfic. And the 40K fanfic didn't set a very high bar..
But I see almost none set in Warhammer Fantasy world. It is simply so unpopular, or (as I have heard) GW just outright forbid any fan-fiction based on their settings?
I will cover this in several ways.
As for fanfic, most IP holders have no problem with it, within some guidelines. Primarily, that it must be given away and never sold. They really never care if they are used for inspiration and put on a site like this. But publish them for sale as an ebook, then you will likely incur their wrath. That is because much of this area of writing can be argued to fall under "fair use".
However, some are known to lash out against any that they IP holders feel go against the intent of their works. Harry Potter is one such case. Right a cute story about Harry and Ginny's first date, and the JKR holders will not give a damn.
But write a story that involves graphic sex, unneeded violence, or something else objectionable and they will likely be all over you. That is because they are the only holders of those rights. Disney actually has a harder time, as the vast majority of their movies are based upon public domain works.
Write a story about Cinderella or Aladdin, there is not much they can do. But do it around Elsa and Anna? Even though it is based on a story over 150 years old, those characters are actually entirely the creation of Disney. This is why they ignore 99% of Snow White clones. Make a movie based on that all you want, just don't use the names they gave the Dwarves, that is actually their own creation.
As for Warhammer Fantasy, it never seemed to catch on for some reason. And yes, I have played it. My Empire army still sits in storage somewhere, I have not even found another to fight against in over a decade.
Of course, I will also admit I was never that impressed with the rules to begin with. There were so many bugs with the rule system which I found frustrating that I just could never take it seriously. I always saw it as a broken system.
And as a setting, there is really not much there to write a story around. It is a pretty generic setting, and unless you specifically brought up something like Brettonia, Estalia, or Nehekhara it would be hard to say any of it was "stolen".
I won't link to any outside sources but google "Warhammer Fan Fic" and you'll get dozens of viable results at the top with a trove of stories.
I would love to see a good amount of debauchery in a fantasy setting. Those Chaos pleasure demons infiltrating a Noble house of the Empire and subverting the wealthy - that would be a fun romp.
I would love to see a good amount of debauchery in a fantasy setting. Those Chaos pleasure demons infiltrating a Noble house of the Empire and subverting the wealthy - that would be a fun romp.
But it is so generic, the setting really does not matter. Kind of like Starcraft.
Create a space opera story. Unless you specifically name an enemy the Protos and another the Zerg, and name characters Raynor and Kerrigan, it could be Star Trek, Star Wars, or entirely your own creation. The setting itself is rather generic.
Warhammer is pretty much "Generic Fantasy", using the archetypes of European Fantasy and putting their own name on them for copyright reason.
Like "Bohica", a story I made. I admit, it is rather generic "Superhero". It is entirely my own, but for the most part it could have been a concept from DC, Marvel, or a dozen other companies. I simply made the choice to make it my own, and not any kind of "fanfic". But if I had changed it to the New 52 DC universe and had the same accident as what at Star Labs created all the Central City characters, I could have completely done away with the entire Night of Madness concept.
The irony to me always was, that it was actually a scenario I created 30 years before. And found it kind of ironic that DC almost copied what I had envisioned as an origin decades later.
Personally I believe that just like Lord of the rings, there is a rich tapestry that is specific to their world.
You could probably make it generic, But I'm not sure what the point is?
I could write a story about three lovely girls the youngest one in curls, and their mom who marries a man with three children of his own. They could have a maid and I could make it generic and pretend it's not Brady bunch.
Why though?
Warhammer has a rich tapestry of geography culture and dark fantasy. The old world has chaos, vampires, all kinds of perversions and witch hunters outseeking to purge them.
Yes, you could generic it but I don't know why you would. As I pointed out, there is a ton of fan fiction out there already based on this setting.
GW's a lot more lawsuit-happy than WotC... a few years back, they C&Ded an author who was using the term "Space Marine" in a story where the characters were literally U.S. Marine Corps in space, and had nothing to do with Warhammer in any way.
But mainly, it's just that D&D is vastly more popular than even 40k, which is in turn vastly more popular than Warhammer Fantasy. D&D is the 800-pound gorilla of the RPG world. Always has been, probably always will be.
I've been a gamer for decades — I started with the Moldvay red book — and I've played more systems than I can count offhand. While D&D is far from my favorite system (among other things, I think the franchise topped out with AD&D 2E, and it's been all downhill since), it frequently ends up being the system I'm actually playing, because it's the lowest common denominator of RPGs. Everyone knows it (if they're familiar with any RPG... and even if they're not, they've probably got a general notion of what it's about just from cultural osmosis), everyone's comfortable with playing it, and, whatever its flaws, it is relatively simple and easy to introduce complete newbies to.
I've never actually played Warhammer, or any of its derivatives, mainly because I didn't feel like just opening my wallet and pouring it into GW's coffers. I avoided M:tG like the plague it is for much the same reason.
But mainly, it's just that D&D is vastly more popular than even 40k, which is in turn vastly more popular than Warhammer Fantasy. D&D is the 800-pound gorilla of the RPG world. Always has been, probably always will be.
I agree with a lot of that.
At one time, "Totally Sucky Rules" went through a phase of "Lawsuit Mania", suing everybody from Chaosium and Judge's Guild to anybody that made something that helped their game, but they themselves did not make. Thankfully, they finally got over that.
But yea, I remember that entire "Space Marine" nonsense. I saw that as completely retarded to be honest. Also a long time gamer, and I saw Warhammer as a completely retarded system. Of course, I also came from a background playing historical 25mm armies, and learning I could not state I was having a unit retreat and NOT get a bonus to regroup because I had declared it was mind blowing to me. Doing a fake attack to lure a unit into an attack, only to watch my several hundred point heavy cavalry unit run off the table because a declared withdrawal was the same as a rout where they were beaten in combat and forced to retreat was insane.
Then learning when my heavy cavalry could not just blast through light bowmen (when killing every unit in front of them) but had to stop and fight them, insanity. No, they are on heavy armored chargers with plate mail. They went to ignore the archers and charge the unit behind them, not stop and fight them! But no, no breakthrough rules so you have to stop and fight them.
I guess that is the thing now. Playing rule systems where everything is locked down, and there really is no choice unless the company gives it to you.
I think the franchise topped out with AD&D 2E
Yeah... I remember breaking that system with nothing more than the DMG. (Custom character class. One school of magic use(necromancy). Decent saving throws. d4HP (+3). No weapons, no armor. With >0XP, character is infinite level(hence infinite hit dice). Custom spell to mass kill every creature on plane, up to cumulative total HD=caster's HD. Yep. God of Death class.) Probably a few details I forgot...I think Jim and I talked about writing it up and submitting it as an example of how broken it was to not include a minimum XP multiplier.
I think the franchise topped out with AD&D 2E
1e
2e was a collection of half-tested arbitrary changes pushed out by the CEO of TSR too early for the purposes of catering to the satanic panic crowd (which she was just barely not a member) and cutting Gary Gygax (whom she had pushed out of the company after a hostile takeover) out on royalties that they were paying on 1e.
2e was a collection of half-tested arbitrary changes pushed out by the CEO of TSR too early for the purposes of catering to the satanic panic crowd (which she was just barely not a member) and cutting Gary Gygax (whom she had pushed out of the company after a hostile takeover) out on royalties that they were paying on 1e.
It was a bit more than that.
Primarily it was a way to revitalize sales, as they had fallen flat and the sale of books was their primary money maker. A great deal of the rules were things that had appeared earlier in Dragon Magazine, along with house rules used by the members of the company.
THACO was actually in the original DM Guide, but little used in First Edition. And it was occasionally used and referenced in TSR Modules in the era as well. Most of the expanded character classes were also Dragon Magazine additions (as was the earlier "Unearthed Arcana" book). And Fiend Folio being taken from White Dwarf magazine in the UK.
But primarily, it was just a tool for getting people to buy new books. Most groups I played in, we mixed both of them freely. The differences were so minor that unless you were a serious "rules lawyer" they were insignificant. But a lot were clarifications of things that were left vague in the first edition.
But that cutting of royalties is part of a company policy that Gygax himself started. When David Arneson left the company, Gygax cut all royalties which resulted in a messy lawsuit, which Arneson won (and was awarded reduced royalties). TSR did the same thing after Gygax was bounced (he got reduced royalties as one of the creators), but then suing him when he created almost an exact clone of the original game.
You want an exact clone? Check out Arduin Grimoire. It was so close a copy of the pieces of the original editions, that it used, it had the same typos.
You want an exact clone? Check out Arduin Grigorieva. It was such close a copy of the pieces of the original editions, that it used, it had the same typos.
Does not matter, because I have been unable to find enough players to make a group. They all find it retarded to be "restricted" to only a handful of classes, and without the 1,001 feats that make them all special.
Check out GURPS. Generic Universal Role Playing System. (no one could come up with a better name than the working title)
You can have stone age hunter/gatherers fighting lovecraftian critters in outer space if you want. Or restrict it to all special ops, or... Literally hundreds of source books and any or all can be used. We are currently , well, actually not... Covid, anyway characters playing in Greyhawk world using converted D&D chars. Another campaign is a 1927 cliffhangers adventure, etc
Check out GURPS. Generic Universal Role Playing System. (no one could come up with a better name than the working title)
Trust me, I know GURPS very well. Even included it in a story I posted here. But kind of the same problem, is a bit more obscure than other systems, and have actually been to stores that outright refused to allow it to be played on the premises (even though they sold it).
In fact, way back in 2006 when I did a major addition to the Wikipedia page on The War Against the Chtorr, I used the GURPS reference book for much of the details (which the original author had been involved in creating). And I also played the earlier "Worlds of Wonder" game system that is one of the inspirations for GURPS.
In fact, in one of my stories I created a fictional expansion for GURPS called "Yellow Journalists, Investigative Reporters, and War Correspondents". Yes, a title inspired by "Mercenaries, Spies and Private Eyes", and intended as a supplement where the characters are various forms of investigative reporters. Even having the game play be part of the story. Specifically being a GURPS module, and even having a fictional cameo with Steve Jackson himself.
Yeah, decades long gamer geek here. And it was interesting, having part of the story be about "game light", involving the story of games without the mechanics. Some told me it bored them, but others said they loved it.
Plus, where else could I make a mystery that involved pearls and vinegar? Simple, when writing about a game inside of a story. And as the character was more of a "story creator" than "game designer", what better system than GURPS?
In fact, my "Night of Madness" is actually based on a campaign I created decades ago for the Worlds of Wonder "Superworld" setting I created, then later modified for Champions. Then one night I was reflecting on those games, and decided I could just make a story based on them.
"Bohica" was my main NPC (but without the gender change ability), and one of the girls made the Dire Wolf character (who was like herself Vietnamese), but without Fang. He is my addition for the story, as is changing her to Chinese.
would it be too much to ask for some fanfiction based on the Total War: Warhammer II strategy game for PC?
Orcs have invaded Nuln, and the main character is a woman who is now their prisoner - after her inevitable escape at her clutches - she flees into the world and travels to the Vampire Lands where her pursuers fear to tread, etc.
Or perhaps Total War: Three Kingdsoms? The diabolical Cao Cao holds a princess of one of his enemies in his prison.
Or maybe you don't want to do hot princesses running half-naked across Ancient China. How about political intrigue, war, glory, and diplomacy?
(but with naked princesses now and again, for old Eddie)