Please read. Significant change on the site that will affect compatibility [ Dismiss ]
Home » Forum » Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

Use of Emphases instead of simple Italics

Crumbly Writer 🚫

Since I haven't been spending as much time on SOL lately, I decided to dive back into the various guides once again to see what I may have missed (mainly because all the links to my website were years out of date).

Despite my going above and beyond any sensible level of responsibility, I've clearly labeled each and every single image that I include in a story to make it accessible to the visually impaired (VIPs). But for some odd reason, I'd never actually figured out the difference between < i> (visual emphasis of a word or phrase) and < em> (visual and audio emphasis of a phrase).

What do the rest of you do? How many of us are actually using the correct formatting, and how many are like me, and simply defaulting to the first thing they started using years and years ago before they began writing?

Note: Even now, half the time I end an < em> tag with a < /i> tag, so it's clearly a harder habit to break than I'd assumed!

Tessa Void 🚫

My understanding is that "italics" refers to the underlying typographical convention of e.g. slanting letters. Emphasis refers to the linguistics content of e.g. saying a thing in a different intonation in order to emphasize it.

There are things that are, by typographical convention, italicized but would not be read with emphasis. Titles of books, for instance, are as I understand it typically meant to be typed in italics (or underline, which is equivalent to italics) though you wouldn't change your intonation pattern when talking because of it (I believe the cite tag in HTML is designated for such things). Same with, for instance, magic spells in D&D, which are typically written in italics (at least, I think I remember it being that way once upon a time) though no one says them any differently when used in the middle of a sentence.

As for me, Scrivener allows me to assign styles, which I have for things like "emphasis", "book title", and so on, then Scrivener's export functionality allows me to select whatever HTML/etc. tag I wish for those styles. In either case, I generally try to stick to what is "correct" per a standard's guidance, inasmuch as one might exist. But, that is my preference; I'm not much going to tell other people what they must do in that regard.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

I simply use < i > but you're right. If you want it to be emphasized it should be < em >.

I have no idea what Calibre or the SOL Wizard does when it comes across italics in my docx.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

the SOL Wizard does when it comes across italics in my docx

< i> tags and < em> tags are respected as is usually.

However, if I notice several paragraphs surrounded with < em> tags, I switch them to < i> tags, as I've been told long emphasized passages are annoying when one listens to them read by a machine.

When you submit plain text with _emphasized_ words, the system converts them to < em> tags. {_ _} tags get to be italics, not emphasized.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

However, if I notice several paragraphs surrounded with < em> tags, I switch them to < i> tags, as I've been told long emphasized passages are annoying when one listens to them read by a machine.

That makes sense, as it's difficult to emphasize an entire paragraph, or page, at a time. However, as I often use italics to signify telepathic communications, that means that any VIPs would have no clue that someone isn't speaking aloud. I'm still unsure how to rectify that, though I doubt I'll ever revisit each of my past stories to correct them, anyway. Luckily, I mix single quotes with italics, so that should cover my ass a bit.

On the other hand, I've learned from using spoken text on the Mac for editing purposes, that rather than emphasizing the words, it typically speeds them up, so it sounds like someone in a rush to spit the words out because they're SO embarrassing. Thus, based on the sound alone, I still prefer plain visual italics. So far, I haven't really noticed ANY difference in the actual emphasis of the pronounced words. The blind may appreciate the difference, but to the author, wanting to hear the story as written, it sounds utterly wrong. :(

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

< i> tags and < em> tags are respected as is usually.

I meant when I submit to the Wizard a docx with Word's italic formatting. I assume the Wizard simply converts it to < i >. It would have no way to know if it was a simple italics (like a thought or foreign word) or an emphasized word.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I meant when I submit to the Wizard a docx with Word's italic formatting. I assume the Wizard simply converts it to < i >. It would have no way to know if it was a simple italics (like a thought or foreign word) or an emphasized word.

Word handles and properly handles both the < emphasis> and < strong> tags. Unfortunately, they don't relay on simple Control commands. Instead, you have to select the paragraph type to apply to the word or phrase. It takes more time, but you could always do a global search just before publishing or posting.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I meant when I submit to the Wizard a docx with Word's italic formatting.

The docx format mirrors Word's HTML format in its crappiness.

Usually, docx uses < I> tags like in (x)html. And like usual for Word, sometimes it removes the italics by styling the < I> tag with 'text-style:normal'.

My parser sees the < I> tag, but not the style embedded in it. So sometime, you submit a docx that contains no italics and you end up with a bunch of text in italics where none should be.

But, generally, if it's italics in your docx file, it will be wrapped in < I> < /I> tags on SOL.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

But, generally, if it's italics in your docx file, it will be wrapped in < I> < /I> tags on SOL.

Complete with capitalizations? ;)

Crumbly Writer 🚫

OK, I was experimenting, comparing the html (via Word) for "subtle emphasis" vs. the normal < emphasis> command using the Mac's read-aloud command (Option+Esc), and nothing. Not only was there was EM difference between the two, both versions were no different than plain text is.

So, the question is, is there any difference in how the < em> command reads text? As I'd earlier noted, I've heard it speak the text fast—which makes it sound like they're in a rush to be done with the entire story. In NO instance have I noted what I'd consider 'emphasizing' the word.

Is this just me, or are other users hearing something different on their machines?

BlacKnight 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

(I'm substituting square brackets for angle brackets here because the forum doesn't handle literally quoted HTML well.)

As I've mentioned here before, I write directly in HTML in a simple text editor, so all of my markup is hand-coded. I strictly enforce the separation between logical structure and physical formatting — HTML is for logical structure; translating logical structure to physical formatting is the job of the CSS. (Violation of that rule is one of the reasons that machine-generated HTML is usually such a hideous mess.) I include an external fiction.css stylesheet in almost all of my fiction writing, that contains a bunch of my formatting preferences and standard style stuff that isn't covered by defaults, and most stories also have a story-specific stylesheet with formatting specific to that story.

I basically never use the [i] tag. It's physical formatting; physical formatting belongs in the CSS. And I don't use [em] as just "the italic tag, but written [em] instead of [i]". Getting italics in my text is accomplished in one of a number of different ways, depending on the reason for the italics.

If I'm actually using italics for emphasis, I use the [em] tag, which has "font-style: italic;" as part of its default visual formatting. Sometimes I hang extra formatting on that in the story stylesheet. For example, the story stylesheet for my recent NaNo sets it to light gray text on a black background, and I have entries in it that set [em] to a brighter gray, and [strong] to full white, in addition to their usual italicizing and bolding effects, which is not the case for any of the other ways things might end up italicized or bolded, so emphasized text is visually distinct from, say, movie titles.

Titles I mark up with the [cite] tag, and use things like [cite class="movie"] or [cite class="song"], with the former using the default italic formatting, and the latter with the fiction.css containing:

cite.song {
font-style: inherit;
quotes: "'" "'";
}
cite.song::before {
content: open-quote;
}
cite.song::after {
content: close-quote;
}

... so that it doesn't italicize, but is enclosed in quotes (single quotes; in fiction, I reserve double quotes for dialogue, and some odd corner cases with nested quotes).

Foreign language text I mark up like [span lang="es" title="Hello!"]¡Hola![/span], and the CSS includes:

span[lang] {
font-style: italic;
}

... so any [span] that I've tagged with a language gets automatically italicized, and standard browsers give a pop-up translation on hover. Because italics are so overloaded, I've started experimenting with other methods of marking languages, like using a Roman typeface instead of italics for lang="la", or a script font for lang="ar".

Ship names I mark up like [span class="shipname"]Titanic[/span], and have the CSS set to italicize span.shipname.

Direct thoughts I mark up with [q class="thought"], and have the CSS set to:

q.thought {
font-style: italic;
quotes: "" "";
}

I do the same thing with telepathy, but I set the quotes to "*" instead of removing them.

I've taken to using the [q] tag instead of typing literal quotation marks for regular dialogue, too. It's got a couple of advantages... for one, it makes the browser do smart-quotes correctly, which I can't literally type (or not easily, anyway) in my text editor. It also allows simple tagging of dialogue with character names, if you want to apply formatting quirks to a specific character's speech. For example, if you were PTerry, you could tag dialogue as [q class="Death"]There is no justice. There is just us.[/q] and put in the CSS:

q.Death {
font-variant: small-caps;
}

If I want a whole section italicized because it's a dream or the like, I'll enclose the whole section in [div class="dream"] and set the CSS to italicize div.dream, and to de-italicize things like div.dream em.

... and so on.

Basically the only time I'd ever actually use the [i] tag is if something is italicized for no goddamn reason. Like if I were literally quoting a typographer's nightmare of a sign that has lines italicized just because, and wanted to convey that effect, I'd use the [i] there. It's physical formatting that has no logical justification, so use of the physical formatting tag is appropriate.

Back to Top

Close
 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In