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PotomacBob 🚫

Mirriam-Webster has officially recognized "irregardless" as a word.

Replies:   Honey_Moon  JoeBobMack
Ernest Bywater 🚫

I'm not surprised as they were one of the first to accept decimated as being a direct equivalent to, and replacement for, devastated.

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

I'm not surprised as they were one of the first to accept decimated as being a direct equivalent to, and replacement for, devastated.

Only 1 in 10 will get the original source of the word though.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Mushroom

Only 1 in 10 will get the original source of the word though.

True. That's as bad as there being only 10 types of people who understand binary counting - those that do and those that don't.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Mushroom

Only 1 in 10 will get the original source of the word though.

Maybe in Merry 'ol England (i.e. using the Queen's English), but here in the states, the vast majority of uses I've seen over the last several decades are equivalent to 'devastate'. If it was ONLY used for 'reduce by one tenth', the word would only rarely be used, yet the word is fairly commonly used to describe a wide variety of disasters.

Replies:   pcbondsman
pcbondsman 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Um, big typo? I think you meant decimate.

Maybe in Merry 'ol England (i.e. using the Queen's English), but here in the states, the vast majority of uses I've seen over the last several decades are equivalent to 'devastate'. If it was ONLY used for 'reduce by one tenth', the word would only rarely be used, yet the word is fairly commonly used to describe a wide variety of disasters.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@pcbondsman

No, I think CW got it right. Most recent usages of 'decimate' equate to 'devastate'.

AJ

richardshagrin 🚫

@awnlee jawking

'decimate'

If a mate has nine other spouses, you are a deci mate.
(Deci is one tenth.)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater 🚫

@richardshagrin

(Deci is one tenth.)

Deci is a tenth as in one fifth of one half. For the 10th whole unit the word is deca, as in decathlon is 10 events.

(Fun to nitpick the nitpicker.)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Fun to nitpick the nitpicker.

My nits can beat up your nits. :)

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  karactr
Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Dominions Son

My nits can beat up your nits. :)

That's because you have uncontrolled nits and I have mine are better behaved.

karactr 🚫

@Dominions Son

My nits can beat up your nits. :)

My gnoshes will eat your nits for lunch, and still have time for a nap.

pcbondsman 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I read what Crumbly said wrong.

Agreed about most recent usages, but those usages are wrong.

Strangely, perhaps, I find devastate to be a stronger word that decimate.

No, I think CW got it right. Most recent usages of 'decimate' equate to 'devastate'.

Replies:   Dominions Son  bk69
Dominions Son 🚫

@pcbondsman

Agreed about most recent usages, but those usages are wrong.

Except that it's the common usage and not any authority that defines what is right and what is wrong.

Languages change. Get over it.

bk69 🚫

@pcbondsman

Agreed about most recent usages, but those usages are wrong.

Look, the usage is actually correct if you follow the logic - decimation was a truly horrible thing; maybe not on a sheer numbers thing, more because of the randomness and the fact that nobody was exempt. But either way, it was considered a terrible thing to happen. Thus 'decimation' was a term for 'a terrible thing' and 'decimate' came to mean 'to cause a terrible outcome' rather than a specific terrible outcome.

Replies:   pcbondsman
pcbondsman 🚫

@bk69

Good explanations from you and DS but I think the fact is the wrong usage probably started with some media twit looking for a new word, or not knowing the difference. The sheeple followed.

That's the end of my rant about the all knowing media. D

Replies:   Dominions Son  bk69
Dominions Son 🚫

@pcbondsman

all knowing media.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

bk69 🚫

@pcbondsman

Good explanations from you and DS but I think the fact is the wrong usage probably started with some media twit looking for a new word, or not knowing the difference.

Quite frankly, if not for the explanation I gave, the term would be completely unknown, since it would refer solely to a practice of the Roman legions. And quite frankly, since that organization is, well, defunct... their practices are largely irrelevant to most.

The interpretation of the term would've shifted long before 'the media' really became a thing, for the term to have survived beyond a type of historical jargon.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@bk69

There are a lot of companies shedding about 10% of their staff at the moment - I'm sure someone would have revived the term considering how accurate and evocative it would be.

AJ

Replies:   bk69
bk69 🚫

@awnlee jawking

It wouldn't be, unless they lined up every employee by height and then fired every tenth, no matter what position in the company. If you insist on precise meaning, rather than figurative usage, then you have to stick to precise meaning.

Michael Loucks 🚫

Dictionaries are point-in-time observations of common usage. If people are using the word in that way (or using a collection of phonetic sounds to express an idea), the dictionary will include it eventually.

Languages evolve, and not always in ways of which we approve.

LupusDei 🚫

So, let a foreigner to wonder at the world, is it just redundant amalgamation of irregardly and regardless, leading to (posibly incorrect) double negative used for emphasis, or is there some other anomaly?

Dominions Son 🚫

@LupusDei

Nope, no double negative intended.

As generally used and this is reflected in the MW definition, irregardless=regardless. They a synonyms.

Irregardless is a bone head error, but there are enough bone heads out there to shift the language.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin 🚫

@Dominions Son

regardless

gardless is not having a gard. re gardless is not having a gard again. Like first you move, then you move again, its a remove. If you own one tavern you are a Publican. If you own two or more, you are a Re Publican. And you Go Pee, or maybe GOP.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@richardshagrin

What does 'rigate' mean? ;-)

AJ

Replies:   bk69  Dominions Son  irvmull
bk69 🚫

@awnlee jawking

What does 'rigate' mean? ;-)

Isn't that a boat with a speech impediment?

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

What does 'rigate' mean? ;-)

The gate on the right rather than the gate on the left.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

What does 'rigate' mean? ;-)

Fettuccini. With stripes.

A dry pasta. Not yet "irrigated".

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@irvmull

A dry pasta. Not yet "irrigated".

What about 'radiate' and 'irradiate'? ;-)

AJ

Replies:   bk69  Crumbly Writer
bk69 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Doesn't 'irradiate' basically mean 'to cause something to radiate' (in the sense that glowing in the dark radiates light)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@bk69

Doesn't 'irradiate' basically mean 'to cause something to radiate' (in the sense that glowing in the dark radiates light)

More the opposite: to shine a light upon something.

MW says:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irradiate

transitive verb

1a : to affect or treat by radiant energy (such as heat) specifically : to treat by irradiation

b : to cast rays of light upon : illuminate

c : to enlighten intellectually or spiritually

2 : to emit like rays of light : radiate

Replies:   bk69
bk69 🚫

@Dominions Son

More the opposite:

People really need to read parentheticals.

Irradiate - to expose something to hard radiation. (hence, to make it glow in the dark, hence make it radiate.)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@bk69

Irradiate - to expose something to hard radiation. (hence, to make it glow in the dark, hence make it radiate.)

No, to expose something to any kind of radiation/radiant energy and whether the irradiated object radiates after or not is irrelevant.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@awnlee jawking

What about 'radiate' and 'irradiate'?

Irradate is whatever your last date did that infuriated you. ;)

That really irradiates me! ;)

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

is it just redundant amalgamation of irregardly and regardless

"Irregardless" is a double negative. The "ir-" prefex is negative so add it to a word that is already negative (regardless) and you have a double negative.

"Regardless" means "regard less" or without regard.

Therefore, "irregardless" means without without regard.

PotomacBob 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

"Regardless" means "regard less" or without regard.

There'fore, "irregardless" means without without regard.

What? You want English to be consistent and logical? Where fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing? Canny/uncanny? Thaw/Unthaw/Dethaw?

Replies:   Michael Loucks  bk69
Michael Loucks 🚫

@PotomacBob

What? You want English to be consistent and logical?

Good luck with THAT! Herding cats is easier!

bk69 🚫

@PotomacBob

Unthaw/Dethaw?

Are those actually words?
Defrost is the only synonym of 'thaw' that I could think of that starts with 'de'...

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@bk69

Unthaw/Dethaw?

Are those actually words?

Yes

Don't forget about deplane.

Replies:   bk69  Ernest Bywater
bk69 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Don't forget about deplane.

Isn't that what the midget on Fantasy Island used to shout?

No, wait, that was 'zee plane'.

Wasn't 'deplane' the term for unassing your seat on the jet, grabbing your carry-on, and leaving?

Switch Blayde 🚫

@bk69

Wasn't 'deplane' the term for unassing your seat on the jet, grabbing your carry-on, and leaving?

Yes, getting off the airplane.

George Carlin had a skit with words, one of which was deplane, that was hysterical.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@bk69

Isn't that what the midget on Fantasy Island used to shout?

No, wait, that was 'zee plane'.

"Zee plain, you motherfuckers, zee plain, zee plain!" ;)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Zee rain in Spain falls mainly on zee plain.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Don't forget about deplane.

Dat's da ting dat you flies in.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Dat's da ting dat you flies in.

And here I always thought that was de screen door. ;)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

And here I always thought that was de screen door. ;)

No, de screen door keeps de flies out on de plain.

LupusDei 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Irregardless" is a double negative. The "ir-" prefex is negative so add it to a word that is already negative (regardless) and you have a double negative.

What I meant, it seems possible that the double negative is instead used for emphasis, seeing how it is used as synonymous to single negative.

For example we do something somewhat similar in Latvian, not quite in the same world, but in a sentence, many worlds could be negated in row just for emphasis of single negation, and it's considered legal and correct even if in at least some of these cases nitpicky logical analysis could find self-contradictory double negatives. Worse, those negative-negative constructions do legally exist too, and it's sometimes tricky to tell apart when it's intended to be double (or triple) negative indeed and when it's just repetitive emphasis, although native speaker in most cases should rather undoubtedly.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@LupusDei

For example we do something somewhat similar in Latvian, not quite in the same world, but in a sentence, many worlds could be negated in row just for emphasis of single negation, and it's considered legal and correct even if in at least some of these cases nitpicky logical analysis could find self-contradictory double negatives.

Please, let's not 'negate' any worlds (Thanos style) over a fairly simple word usage. While many languages allow for double negatives, English isn't and has never allowed it (which is why the dictionaries resisted accepting it for so long). But, what I'd prefer (to making them synonyms) is for 'irregardless' to now mean 'regards very much, thank you!' ;)

"Regardless, that's not what I meant."
"Irregardless, that's how I and everyone took it. If you expect to communicate, learn to use English!"

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

But, what I'd prefer

Do you imagine that the kinds of people who use irregardless care what you would prefer?

Replies:   bk69
bk69 🚫

@Dominions Son

Do you imagine that the kinds of people who use irregardless care what you would prefer?

I'd prefer they'd die painful lingering deaths. Not sure if they care, or maybe should care, about that...

Switch Blayde 🚫

@LupusDei

What I meant, it seems possible that the double negative is instead used for emphasis,

As usual, Grammar Girl says it better than I ever could:

In Shakespeare's and Chaucer's time, it was normal to use double and triple negatives to add emphasis, and even today, other languages, such as Spanish and French, also use double negatives to add emphasis to the negativity.

Shakespeare also used double negatives. For example, in "As You Like It," Celia says, "I cannot go no further." If "you can go no further" was negative, then "you can't go no further" was even more negative or emphatic.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@Switch Blayde

As usual, Grammar Girl says it better than I ever could:
In Shakespeare's and Chaucer's time, it was normal to use double and triple negatives to add emphasis, and even today,

... (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@JoeBobMack

... (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction

Or ... I can't get no DeSatisfaction! Or would that be Irrasatifaction?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

I am whelmed by your verbal legerdemain.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

There'fore, "irregardless" means without without regard.

And therefore, you meant "There's where the ball should go" as you tee off? It's best not to screw up your your phrasing when lecturing others on word usages. ;)

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

It's best not to screw up

Fixed the slip-finger typo. My wife was bugging me so I didn't get to edit it before posting.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Fixed the slip-finger typo. My wife was bugging me so I didn't get to edit it before posting.

That's what you get when you're typing while using your fingers for something else. ') Next time, use your tongue, and you won't be tempted to waste time making irrelevant online posts when your attention is needed elsewhere.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Irregardless" is a double negative. The "ir-" prefex is negative so add it to a word that is already negative (regardless) and you have a double negative.

Just like flammable and inflammable ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Just like flammable and inflammable ;-)

Except in "in-" in "inflammable" does not mean "not" (non-flammable is the opposite of "flammable."

"Inflammable" should not exist. Someone might light up a cigarette thinking the contents aren't flammable. But that's the English language.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Inflammable" should not exist. Someone might light up a cigarette thinking the contents aren't flammable. But that's the English language.

As is common in English, the -in prefix alternately means either "not" or "especially so". So "inflammable" doesn't just mean that "it'll burn" but instead means "highly flammable, or likely to burn like a Christmas tree, taking the entire house with it in only a matter of minutes.

In English, you really can't say that a common usage should NOT exist, as there is NO national body that regulates which accepted usages of English ARE or ARE NOT acceptable (like the French do). English is, in the end, 'the People's language' and literary snobs have no effective controlling voice (aside from continually ensuring that dictionaries are the very LAST resource to acknowledge ANY given definition of a word).

In that sense, "dethaw" doesn't mean "refreeze" or even "to manually thaw" but "thawing especially quickly, by natural means". But like most dictionaries, you won't find a single dictionary that acknowledges that definition ... yet.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

(like the French do

France tries, but my understanding is that they are having at best limited success.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Dominions Son

Alas, the Académie Française determines which French words are 'allowed' (at least in formal books like dictionaries), but has little effect on what words actual Frenchpersons use.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Which is why I said they have at BEST limited success.

Also, I'm not aware of any other nation/language that has something comparable to the Académie Française. Of course that's hardly definitive.

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei 🚫

@Dominions Son

Also, I'm not aware of any other nation/language that has something comparable to the Académie Française. Of course that's hardly definitive.

Now, I'm actually not knowledgeable about the structure, role and mission of Académie Française, so may or not be directly comparable, but both Latvia/Latvian and Lithuania/Lithuanian have language commission as expect organ at the government.

Tasked among other things with accepting or proposing terminology of emerging things and also by writing fines on stores for incomprehensible national language translations of product descriptions -- with are mandatory --, but often done by Russian speakers with next to no actual knowledge of national language.

Speaking about emerging terminology, Lithuanians are much more proactive and successful with new native language worlds for technology, ours much too often reacts only when an anglicanism or two is already become established jargon and then propose some abomination nobody would actually use.

Like, when try to transpose "hardware driver" too literally you get awkward description of rutting, and first proposed translation of copy&paste "clipboard" happened to be rude euphemism for a cunt. Well, it is little more understandable when you realize that the ancient witches siting in the language commission doesn't actually use technology themselves. And they are more excited for getting into court fights over forcing to write name "Otto" in passport with one T because double T supposedly isn't pronounced in Latvian (with is disputable).

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Inflammable" should not exist.

That's a flammatory observation ;-)

AJ

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Irregardless" is a double negative. The "ir-" prefex is negative so add it to a word that is already negative (regardless) and you have a double negative.

cf also refutable and irrefutable.

Consistency? Fat chance! ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

also refutable and irrefutable.

No, in that case the "ir-" prefix is the negative.

As adjectives the difference between refutable and irrefutable. is that refutable is able to be refuted, or shown to be false while irrefutable is undeniable; unable to be disproved or refuted.

Honey_Moon 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

Mirriam-Webster has officially recognized "irregardless" as a word.

Oh damn! Now society will crumble!
Have they recognized "Futanari" yet?

Dominions Son 🚫

@Honey_Moon

Have they recognized "Futanari" yet?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/futanari

Not yet apparently.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Honey_Moon

Have they recognized "Futanari" yet?

How about "irFutanari"?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

How about "irFutanari"?

If you go to an Apple store you might find an iFruit-anari.

JoeBobMack 🚫

@PotomacBob

I think I was in college before I learned that "irregardless" was incorrect. My mother used it. And "druthers." Both of which she may have picked up from Li'l Abner.

Glad to see it recognized; it still "feels" right to me.

Replies:   rustyken  Crumbly Writer
rustyken 🚫

@JoeBobMack

Both of which she may have picked up from Li'l Abner.

Now that brings back some memories.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@JoeBobMack

I think I was in college before I learned that "irregardless" was incorrect. My mother used it. And "druthers." Both of which she may have picked up from Li'l Abner.

Once again, you (the proverbial "you") are confusing British English with American English. The Queen's English tends to refute ANY use of double negatives, while American English tends to use it to emphasis extreme cases (i.e. especially so).

So, if you want to argue against the American usage trend, you'll also have to refute Shakespeare as a legitimate source of reference for definitions.

Replies:   JoeBobMack
JoeBobMack 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Hmmm... I wasn't clear on time frame. (Like writing a time travel story! Funny!) I meant that I learned it was considered incorrect at that time. As I indicated, I have no problem with it being considered correct, now, just based on "feel." However, some of the points made herein, including yours about adding emphasis, I agree with. That's why I posted the song reference.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

How can you be disappointed if you were never appointed in the first place?

Or for that matter, if you've never been gruntled, how can you be disgruntled?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@irvmull

How can you be disappointed if you were never appointed in the first place?

In these cases, 'dis-' doesn't mean NOT, rather it means "unlikely to" (rather than "ir-" alternately meaning "not" or "especially so"). And if you can figure that out, and apply it to any new terms in the future, than you're a better man than I!

awnlee jawking 🚫

Whirred alert - 'Take cover, it's a drone attack' ;-)

AJ

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