Forum: Author Hangout

Well, all grammatical mistakes that are pointed out I've been correcting on SOL. But I plan on making pacing changes and working on character voices. I'll also try to improve the prose.
I don't see the ethics problem because, after all, I'm sharing the first draft version for free, and people seem to be enjoying it. The beginning and end of both stories will be the same.

On the other hand if you are using the free story on SOL to promote sales of the story, even on Bookappy, and there are differences that go beyond formatting, in my opinion, that's pushing things into teaser territory.

I don't agree.

The teaser that's against the rules is an incomplete story. Want to finish it? You got to buy it.

Some authors offer a novel that's the first in a series for free on Amazon. They aren't teasing. It's marketing. They're giving the reader a taste of their writing and the characters in the series. There's no one forcing the reader to buy any of the books in the series. Each is a complete novel. If they don't buy any more, they got to read a novel for free. If they like it, they may choose to purchase more.

That's not a teaser. The alternative is not offering the first novel for free and making the reader pay for it. So the reader gets a free story and the author loses revenue on that novel with the hope it generates more revenue on the other novels.

The key is, the free novel doesn't leave the reader hanging. The reader gets a complete story to read. For free.

My experience on Amazon differs. I have bought, usually for 99 cents, a story that caught my attention. Only to come to the end of the first book and the story is incomplete. To get the complete story, I have to buy 2 or 3 or 4 more books, each of which costs, say, $2.99 or $3.99 or more.

That's unethical. It's the kind of teasing that Lazeez says isn't allowed on SOL.

Since Bookapy is independent of StoriesOnline, my understanding is that works on Bookapy and SOL can differ. The only problem is if the Bookapy story is more 'complete' than the SOL version.

And this is fine, so long as you post chapters on SOL on a regular basis. I release my stories to Bookapy a week before I being chapter-a-day posting on SOL. I confirmed this was OK with Lazeez.

Personally, I would have a problem with the ethics of the situation if the Bookapy version benefited from corrections supplied by SOL readers that you didn't also make to the SOL version.

Why? They got to read the draft for free. They got to contribute to the final version.

I met a rather successful Fantasy author, Michael J. Sullivan, on wattpad. In one conversation we were talking about our writing process. He uses hundreds of Beta readers to review his novel before publishing the final version. Are those Beta readers cheated because they helped him and had to buy the published novel when available? I doubt they saw themselves as victims. They were probably thrilled. After all, they volunteered and chosen from many more who weren't.

Are those Beta readers cheated because they helped him and had to buy the published novel when available?

In my opinion, yes, unless the author paid the beta readers for their services.

AJ

I thought u were encouraged to point to bookapy?

That site has certain rules in their contract that would prohibit you from selling for a lower price somewhere else, which would include offering that version for free.

That's a different issue. Amazon clearly states that they will not be undersold. If someone notifies them that it's being offered for free elsewhere, even on the author's own site, they will drop the price to free.

The question is, how different are they?

I'm not sure yet, I plan on doing significant improvements over the course of a few months. I want to create a professional, publishable version of my story. I can already see some pacing issues I want to fix, and I've already improved in writing and I can see the amateurish writing in the early chapters. I'm gonna make it as good as I can get it, good enough that it has a good shot of spreading via word of mouth. In the end, I would probably prefer to remove it from the site rather than compromise my chances of publishing that professional version with a price tag. After all, editing + a cover could costs like $2k.

I want to create a professional, publishable version of my story.

That came up often on wattpad when it had a Forum. People put up a story and got feedback from readers. Then they wanted to submit the revised version to a literary agent or traditional publisher. They wanted to know if they had to take the draft down from wattpad.

The question was: Did they have to tell the literary agent that it had already been published? Had they lost First Rights (to publish)? The consensus was that the wattpad version was a draft and the one they want to publish is different enough to say it had never been published. Often an analogy was made to posting the draft to a critique group. There were some very seasoned published authors (both traditional and self), but no publisher or literary agent in the discussion.

After all, editing + a cover could costs like $2k

You do know that most self-published authors won't recoup that investment on a single book.

Yeah, I know. Still, I'm willing to spend the money. Writing has recently taken the place of an expensive hobby that I no longer do, due to a virus. So, I don't mind spending my "hobby money" on this thing which has started to consume my time off work. And, you never know, I might breakeven or even turn a profit!

And, you never know, I might breakeven or even turn a profit!

Volume!

Back to my discussions on wattpad. The authors who considered their writing a business said not to invest in marketing until you had at least 3 novels for sale. Good books sell other books.

I don't plan on spending money on advertising. I'm hoping what I make will be good enough to just spread by word of mouth. Yes, what I'm writing is planned to be the first book in a series. Honestly, maybe the biggest thing I'm really getting out of posting on this site is the motivation to keep writing. I find it incredibly difficult to just write in a vacuum. The feedback I get from seeing those download numbers helps motivate me to actually finish writing this thing.

My understanding was that as long as what I published was a complete story, it was alright. I haven't made any definite plans, I'm still working on the first book. I plan on finishing the "refined version" of the first book, then I'll figure out the rest. I'd probably at least post to bookapy any subsequent work, or releasing the later stuff as premium only content on a week by week basis as someone else suggested.

I don't want to tease anybody. That isn't my intention. I plan on giving my current readers a "complete" story with a satisfying ending. I just also want to release a "refined version", I want to be able to recommend to my friends and co-worker "Hey, check out my e-book." It's vain I know... but whatever, it's something I'd like to do.

Do you plan to publish the complete series both on SOL and Bookapy? This could be more of the issue than what you first asked about.

A certain author posts stories from a series on SOL. Then, after a time, the earlier works get deleted. The stories currently on SOL require the foreknowledge of earlier stories which are now only available you-know-where.

My interpretation is that it's fine to post a partial series.

AJ

I don't plan on spending money on advertising.

I've found by using Bookapy and Lulu my books turn up in all the strangest places, even on Japanese, German, Italian, Swedish language sites. Heck, one of my early harem stories was widely promoted by a German gay site for over a decade. I figured they must have really liked the action scenes.

I don't plan on spending money on advertising.

I didn't mean to suggest that you do. I was simply saying that it's hard to get sales traction with one book. Even people who do spend money on advertising suggest not to do it until you have at least 3 books. That's why I mentioned advertising. To give an example of why volume is important.

You do know that most self-published authors won't recoup that investment on a single book.

I do because I regard my time as free and I do my own covers. Technically, I don't pay my editors, but a couple are in poor financial situations so they get the lion's share of the income from the sales. That still means I get some of the income which I usually spend on buying other e-books.

I do because I regard my time as free and I do my own covers.

Me too, but he is not going to and mentioned spending $2k. It's the $2k I said he probably won't recoup.