For you author types. I live and appreciate the work you do and the hours of joy you have given me. That said, why on occasion do various authors post new chapters that are so short? Is it just to keep the story active? Is it because you think it is better to post a really short chapter than nothing at all? Not so much a complaint as a curiousity as to the behind the curtain thinking that causes the occasional very short chapter.
Different people choose different criteria to determine chapter length.
Some have each chapter cover a particular amount of time. Others have a specific subplot to be introduced and resolved, and the chapter is only so long as takes to accomplish that. Some have a self-imposed deadline for a story which is unfinished, so they'll just post whatever they have. Some have a set number of scenes per chapter. Some may want a new chapter every time the narrative focus changes, and there's just one important thing about one character that needs to be shown.
TL;DR - it depends.
I don't write a story with posting it on SOL in mind. So I don't think about chapter length. If the chapter needs to end, I end it. The common places for a chapter to end are things like POV change and time and/or location change. Maybe because I read a lot of thrillers, I also end a chapter when it's uncertain what's going to happen next (not necessarily a cliffhanger), even if it's short. Sometimes if it's real short I post 2 chapters at the same time.
I happen to like short chapters. Maybe it's because I read a lot of thrillers and they typically have short chapters.
I've kinda thought that chapter length was like a person's legs: just long enough to reach the ground. So for a chapter, it should be just long enough to contain the relevant scenes. Change of subject? Start a new chapter. Nothing to get exercised about.
That said, why on occasion do various authors post new chapters that are so short?
Author and style.
Stephen King was never known for being short of words. Yet in Misery, he had a chapter with only a single word. "Rinse".
Mine mostly seem to be about the same length. But some have also been damned short, primarily for story purposes.
So the thinking behind a short chapter? Generally, because it serves the story.
So the thinking behind a short chapter? Generally, because it serves the story.
The problem occurs while the story is being posted. Once it's complete, the chapter length is a non-factor. If the reader wants more, he simply clicks on the next chapter and reads it.
In my case, many of the stories I post have been posted before on ASSM and ASSTR. For a variety of reasons, including my perception that SOL reader don't care for short stories, I'm consolidating many of them.
Generally, short chapters in those consolidations were originally posted as stand-alone stories.
One current story has (IIRC) 12 chapters and something like 12K.
One current story has (IIRC) 12 chapters and something like 12K.
My personal opinion on chapter length is tied to over-all story length. I have a personal bias against short chapter in long stories. One or two short chapters out of 20 or 30 wouldn't bug me, but when you start pushing 50+ chapters in a story that is less than epic length (say under 450K words) I find it annoying.
Though, generally not annoying enough to bail on an otherwise good story.
1K chapters in a 12K story wouldn't bug me.
I was wrong. I've gone back and checked it.
Karen is 21 chapters and 49 K.
Each chapter is all-dialogue; one of the speakers is Karen; the other speaker varies from chapter to chapter. So does the locale.
I really think that the chapters need to be separate.
Karen is 21 chapters and 49 K.
Still okay.
Each chapter is all-dialogue
Not my thing, to each their own.
"'Each chapter is all-dialogue'
Not my thing, to each their own."
They may be more fun to write than to read.
Nobody pays me to write these; so, I get my rewards otherwise.
I like to see if I can convey the scene with only dialogue without getting too obvious ("Do you feel my 19-inch prick invading your tight cunt?" obvious). Or a story in one run-on sentence.
One or two short chapters out of 20 or 30 wouldn't bug me, but when you start pushing 50+ chapters in a story that is less than epic length (say under 450K words) I find it annoying.
This can also simply be writer preference.
I know myself, most of my story chapters fit on a single page when entered here. That is probably because when I write them, I tend to use the same general guide.
A word processor, Times New Roman font, 12 point. And generally between 8-11 pages of standard 8x11 page formatting I feel I have largely finished what needs to be said in that chapter.
But that is also a general guide, not a hard rule. I sometimes go a lot longer than that, up to 20+ pages sometimes. And in others, even a single page. But ultimately, it is the story that does it.
And to be honest, I am not even sure what the "cutoff" in here is for a page. My longest "single chapter and page" story is 36k. But my longest story posted as a single chapter is 83k, and was broken into 3 pages. So it seems to be a single page is right around 40k.
And to be honest, I am not even sure what the "cutoff" in here is for a page.
https://storiesonline.net/author/posting_guidelines.php
Chapter/Part/Story length:
Due to various technical reasons, we try to keep the length of each file served from the site below 55,000 characters (approximately 12,000 words). Any story or chapter longer than 55,000 characters will be served in pages on the site, just like in a book. The page breaks are created by a script, so you never know where your file will be divided. If you don't like the idea of page breaks in unexpected places, then divide your own text into smaller chunks.
I have seen that before. But as it says, not a hard and fast rule. Otherwise my 83k story would have been 2 pages, and not 3.
I have even chuckled here more than once, when I found a "second page", and it only having a single sentence.
I have seen that before. But as it says, not a hard and fast rule.
It's the closest you're going to get unless Lazeez decides to share the fine details of the page cutting algorithm.
Also keep in mind that formatting markup counts towards the page size count even though you don't see it.
I have even chuckled here more than once, when I found a "second page", and it only having a single sentence.
I don't think that happens anymore because the algorithm has evolved. Not sure how but I think that the total length is split into near equal size after it's determined that page splits are required.
Stories are probably stored per page so older stories will remain as they were calculated before unless Lazeez ran a procedure to recalculate them.
stories will remain as they were calculated before unless Lazeez ran a procedure to recalculate them.
Lazeez has stated elsewhere in the forum that the old, possibly incorrect splits remain as they are until a complaint is made, at which time the splits are recalculated (don't know if it's for the story or just that chapter, suspect the latter)
Lazeez has stated elsewhere in the forum that the old, possibly incorrect splits remain as they are until a complaint is made, at which time the splits are recalculated (don't know if it's for the story or just that chapter, suspect the latter)
Yes, I suspected it would be something like that. I didn't know he already explained it before.
Laz has explained most things at least once.
I haven't seen him explain "Retired". I buy new tires for my car, it is then retired. I stop working, I am retired. You are so tired you are retired. Maybe it has something to do with what a tire is. Attire is different than a tire.
I haven't seen him
It's apparent you haven't seen sanity in a while either. Doesn't mean there's no such thing...
you haven't seen sanity
It isn't close enough to Christmas to see Sanity Claus. I wonder if he will have to wear a mask?
This can also simply be writer preference.
I know. What I stated is my preference as a reader. However, a story would already have to be borderline before I abandon reading it over a chapter length issue.
Frankly, I'm having a hard time seeing the sense of this question. It seems it heavily depends on author style, nature of content--dialogue, exposition, soliloquy, action, or introspective rambling, and so on--and topic and detail. I can easily see a one-page chapter, or a many-pages chapter, all reasonable depending on content.
So also we should consider the proper length of a sentence? Add to that the best length of a paragraph?
Do we measure the word-count of sentences and paragraphs and mandate a break point? And how many paragraphs should a chapter contain? Or could a paragraph extend over more than a page? Is that a hard-back book page, or a paperback book page?
Also I find that there's a tremendous difference--and there should be--in paragraph and page style between printed pages and screen pages. What reads nicely in a book is miserable to read (my opinion) on a display screen. And long chapters become rather tiresome after a time in an ebook. There's no stopping point and too much page flipping. One gets lost. It's not like being able to fan through paper pages. Scrolling or screen-flipping doesn't cut it.
So my point is simply that it all depends. It seems to depend on the writer, the motive, the message, and the medium.
And long chapters become rather tiresome after a time in an ebook. There's no stopping point and too much page flipping. One gets lost. It's not like being able to fan through paper pages. Scrolling or screen-flipping doesn't cut it.
Most ebook readers (Kindle, Nook...) will remember exactly where you were at the last time you accessed a particular book. The no stopping point thing is nonsense. you can stop anywhere you want.
The no stopping point thing is nonsense. you can stop anywhere you want.
I read printed books and when if I'm running out of time (going to sleep, have an appointment, etc.) I typically fan the pages of the next chapter to see how long it is to help determine if I put the book down or keep reading.
I believe that's what @graybyrd was talking about when he said: "It's not like being able to fan through paper pages. Scrolling or screen-flipping doesn't cut it." I believe he was talking about when to stop, not that you can't stop anywhere.
I read printed books and when if I'm running out of time (going to sleep, have an appointment, etc.) I typically fan the pages of the next chapter to see how long it is to help determine if I put the book down or keep reading.
That approach just doesn't make sense to me. I keep reading until I need to stop. I presumed it was about figuring out where he left off. Ebooks make that even easier than a paper book.
I believe the point is that in (traditionally) published fiction, chapters typically introduce and resolve a (sub)subplot even if it's just the story of that scene, rather than the online serial "a cliffhanger in every box" approach. So a chapter ends normally on a resolution of something, rather than right in the middle of whatever conflict/challenge.
So a chapter ends normally on a resolution of something, rather than right in the middle of whatever conflict/challenge.
That has what to do with where to stop reading? Squat is the correct answer.
Most people don't like cliffhangers. A resolution of any sort is a much more comfortable stopping point.
Most people don't like cliffhangers. A resolution of any sort is a much more comfortable stopping point.
Maybe not literally a cliffhanger, like a car about to go off a cliff, but it's good practice to make the reader want to turn the page. The best comment an author can get is, "I hate you. I'm so damn tired because I couldn't put your book down and I got no sleep."
Most people don't like cliffhangers.
I don't like deliberately generated cliffhangers. I see them as splitting what should be one scene between two chapters.
If I choose to stop reading in the middle of a chapter, that's completely different.
If I choose to stop reading in the middle of a chapter, that's completely different.
Maybe it's the way I'm wired, but I don't stop until I finish the chapter or sometimes a scene within the chapter if the chapter is long.
Like I said, I think most people prefer to pause at some point of some sort of resolution.
Kinda like how when in the theater, watching a Bourne movie, everyone suddenly remembers to breathe when the chase scene ends.
Like I said, I think most people prefer to pause at some point of some sort of resolution.
Kinda like how when in the theater, watching a Bourne movie, everyone suddenly remembers to breathe when the chase scene ends.
I agree. That's why I stop reading at a new chapter or scene.
Maybe it's the way I'm wired, but I don't stop until I finish the chapter or sometimes a scene within the chapter if the chapter is long.
The only time I worry about where to stop is if I'm reading at bed time. I can get so into a story that I keep going until I doze off in the middle of a sentence, way past when I should have gone to sleep.
The only time I worry about where to stop is if I'm reading at bed time. I can get so into a story that I keep going until I doze off in the middle of a sentence, way past when I should have gone to sleep.
Happens to me every single night!
I keep going until I doze off in the middle of a sentence
That has happened to me only a few times.
All while trying to read A Tale of Two Cities. The second part of that book repeatedly put me to sleep before I gave up on it. Something interesting will actually keep me awake.
The second part of that book repeatedly put me to sleep before I gave up on it. Something interesting will actually keep me awake.
That's the problem. I have sleep issues to start with and don't get enough sleep to begin with. With the book think I start nodding off in the middle of a page at like 3-4 in the morning (when I need to be up at 6).
My mind wants to keep reading, but my body is hitting a hard limit.
My mind wants to keep reading, but my body is hitting a hard limit.
My eyes go way before my body. I have dry eyes and don't produce much tears. And when I'm concentrating on something — driving, on the computer, playing Candy Crush on my iPhone, and yeah, reading — I forget to blink. Then my eyes get blurry. Really tough to read a book with blurry eyes.
btw, my wife stopped reading on her Kindle or iPad at bedtime. Doing so affected her sleep. Maybe the electronic lights.
I typically fan the pages of the next chapter to see how long it is to help determine if I put the book down or keep reading.
When I'm reading late at night, I do something similar.
I was once fooled by an author by relying on her past relatively even chapter lengths. She suddenly stuck in a mega-length chapter.
AJ
Most ebook readers (Kindle, Nook...) will remember exactly where you were at the last time you accessed a particular book. The no stopping point thing is nonsense. you can stop anywhere you want.
I have used e-books almost exclusively for a decade now. But even I can see what is being said here. I always try to find a natural break in the story to pause my reading. It may be a paragraph break, or it may be a change in narration inside of a story. But either way, I almost never break in the middle of a scene or chapter.
Frankly, I'm having a hard time seeing the sense of this question.
The sense of the question is that a newish writer is seeking guidance in how long to make a chapter's length. Why wouldn't a new writer want to know the answer to that question? Who better to ask than the experienced writers on SOL? It's a logical question. And this forum is the logical place to ask it. What if the correct answer is that one chapter in a book should be two words and another chapter in the same book should be two million words? An explanation of why that might be true would be fascinating reading.
I tend to find a story that has chapters that would be between about half to four SOL pages (roughly 5K to 40K words easier to read than one with much larger chapters.
Having said that, there is a story with over 100K words as a single chapter and several chapters in a multiple chapter story that are 80k or more words in size.
By the way, that longest single chapter story is longer than all but about 2.76% of the stories on SOL.
