Forum: Author Hangout

A 500K word story in 100 5k word chapters.

Have you read Moby Dick? It is a whale of a book -- couldn't resist -- of 135 chapters and an epilogue.

Have you read Moby Dick?

Yes and I found the short chapters annoying. It was a good read otherwise.

I guess this really goes more to personal preference. I don't so much care for how long or short the chapters are as long as the chapters don't close in the middle of a plot point.

My annoyance comes when a chapter ends right in the middle of a scene. At least finish your thought. Even if you leave the chapter on a cliff hanger, at least finish your thought.

I guess this really goes more to personal preference.

Agreed. I've stated my personal preferences on this, but I did not portray them as anything more then my preferences.

that's all I took it as. Sorry if that statement came off as harsh, it wan't meant to be if it did.

I abhor letting software deciding where the breaks come. I check my chapters by putting them into text if they might be too long. Before I did that, before I was conscious of the limits, I posted Heart Ball with some chapters long enough to be split into 3 parts. Someday, I'm going to go back and split it up right.

I abhor letting software deciding where the breaks come. I check my chapters by putting them into text if they might be too long. Before I did that, before I was conscious of the limits, I posted Heart Ball with some chapters long enough to be split into 3 parts. Someday, I'm going to go back and split it up right.

There's a difference between chapters and pages. YOU decide the chapters, the SOL system merely splits into pages if a chapter is too long to reasonably load in one go. There is nothing wrong with the page brakes on a paragraph boundary the SOL system currently uses, it's a technical necessity.
Take for example one of Tefler's Three Square Meals chapters. It would take an eternity to load a chapter with a slow connection if it wasn't split into pages.

Tefler's Three Square Meals chapters

I looked at the latest chapter just posted, number 132, using
(more information) on the chapter posting, and for the first time the chapter doesn't have a subtitle! There doesn't seem to be any way to send Tefler a message but someone might let him know there is a fairly widespread question, Why? What is different about this chapter you don't want to tell readers what the chapter is about? Maybe a reader should post on the forum what the subtitle should say.

Could be worse, it could be;

Chapter 132
"Insert subtitle here"...

I looked at the latest chapter just posted, number 132, using (more information) on the chapter posting, and for the first time the chapter doesn't have a subtitle! There doesn't seem to be any way to send Tefler a message but someone might let him know there is a fairly widespread question, Why? What is different about this chapter you don't want to tell readers what the chapter is about? Maybe a reader should post on the forum what the subtitle should say.

Maybe I'm seeing something that's not there :D
"Chapter 132: Making solemn pledges..."

"Chapter 132: Making solemn pledges..."

You are right, the subtitle has been added. I wonder if my post on the forum had anything to do with its appearance?

I write chapters based on the chapter content, but when I post to SoL I combine chapters until I have between 8,000 to 10,000 words for each posting upload. I also include a Table of Contents which shows my chapters and which posting part they are in.

I understand your reasoning but it's a huge incentive to wait for the story to complete before reading it. It sometimes results in rather illogical 'chapter' breaks and makes the SOL TOC completely unrelated to the actual story.

What seems to work for me is about 13,000 - 16,000 words per chapter, but I also have a tendency to write novels with more than 2 million characters.

Too short. :)

I won't be complaining about your characters. I mean you did manage to make me consider that Superman isn't a total douchebag. I mean only for a split second but I thought about it. Thankfully Cal isn't Superman lol! I've kept up with them so far. Now I'm gonna need you to hurry along with that next chapter. Some of us are impatient!

Kidding of course. I keep up with your blog. Hope you get the surgery soon.

For me the length can vary. But to give an idea, I do not use "word counts" or characters, but the number of pages in my word processor as the general guideline.

To give an idea of my page length, it is New Times Roman font size 12, and as a general rule I average from 6-12 pages in length, with 7-9 being the average. And looking at the chapter I am working on now, that is about 4k words, or 20k characters.

This is exactly what I was looking for! That's been my style so far. I've been writing in Arial Narrow at 12pt and so far most of my chapters have been between 8-12 pages in length. I haven't focused on the actual word count and focused more on getting across whatever point I was trying to make in the story.

I'm just going to write as it comes naturally and then worry about editing it for SoL format.

The thing that pisses me off the most is when I have to reread a chapter or two just to remember where the story was going to put the new chapter in context.

That's one of the reasons why I usually wait for a story to complete before starting to read it. There are a few exceptions but not many.

If we're going to use the millennials' attention span deficit as a guide, then each chapter should just fill the screen of the average netbook without scrolling down. That's because a multitude of 'web authorities' have decreed that no one will scroll down a web page. And if they're reading on their smart phone, they're just SOL*, I guess. (*scatalogical out of luck)

At my age, I don't even know how to write for millenials, and I'm not that concerned with future-proofing anything, so we'll just keep on keepin' on with other ol' fart readers in mind. =gb=

That's because a multitude of 'web authorities' have decreed that no one will scroll down a web page. And if they're reading on their smart phone, they're just SOL*, I guess.

I don't think I've ever read a story on this site that I didn't use my phone to read it with.

being a devout Ludite my cell phone isn't capable of such activities. It shocks people to learn that I use my phone solely for immediate voice communications as I don't even use voice mail or SMS.

Same here although I do use SMS for receiving 2-factor authentication codes.

If we're going to use the millennials' attention span deficit as a guide, then each chapter should just fill the screen of the average netbook without scrolling down. That's because a multitude of 'web authorities' have decreed that no one will scroll down a web page. And if they're reading on their smart phone, they're just SOL*, I guess. (*scatalogical out of luck)

The new 'standard' for shorter web pages is a result of the new 'mobile-first' designs. You don't want to endlessly scroll down on your phone which would be less of a problem on a desktop. The other advantage is faster load times and less data usage because the page is smaller, something that is less of a problem on a desktop because they are usually on a faster internet connection and don't have a data limit.

Given all that, wouldn't it seem that loading & reading a book on a phone is a bit like fillin' yer kid's sandbox with a teaspoon? But, some phones I've seen look same size as a paperback book. Maybe it's ok.

Given all that, wouldn't it seem that loading & reading a book on a phone is a bit like fillin' yer kid's sandbox with a teaspoon? But, some phones I've seen look same size as a paperback book. Maybe it's ok.

Yep, using a teaspoon :)
The books that look the same as a paperback are probably epubs and not html. Don't know, I have a dumb phone so never read on a phone.

Yeh, dedicated e-readers. I despise Kindle. Total Amazon lock-down. So first I tried B&N Nook; end result: wanted to fling it against a wall. B&N software runs like it was writ by chimps. Next, tried Chinese android slabs, forever stuck in never-update land. "Hello, welcome to Lotus!" The third try, Kobo. Not much known here in Kindle Kountry, but is huge everywhere else. I love it. Load it from the home 'puter and go sit in waiting rooms, watching other old people wheeze & fidget. Quietly read. 876 books in one pocket. Go Kobo! =gb=

Total Amazon lock-down.

No. I've had a Kindle. It can process .mobi ebooks and PDFs without Amazon's DRM. And there are ways to load things not from Amazon on a Kindle without going through Amazon.

Good gawd, Ernest! As long as it ain't the laptop plugged into the wall socket {grin}. I gotta admit, I don't wanna think about that picture you put in my head.

I tend to write about 3 to 4000 words per chapter. It works for me.

A 3 word chapter seems awfully short to me :)

A 3 word chapter seems awfully short to me :)

I bet Dr. Seuss could do it. He wrote a whole book ( Green Eggs and Ham) containing merely fifty different words. And of those fifty words, only one — "anywhere" — has more than one syllable or five letters. Just to win a bet.

I bet Dr. Seuss could do it.

Yeah, magic makes many things possible. And since there'd have to be necromancy involved in a project involving Dr Seuss, why not other types of magic?

A 3 word chapter seems awfully short to me :)

Worm has a four-word chapter.

Worm has a four-word chapter.

That's a 25% increase to a 3-word chapter, that's significant! :)

As mentioned, I hate to have software choose my page breaks.

Why?

It is impossible to view an entire page on your screen so depending on the format it is necessary to scroll or 'page' through as you read. Why would having your chapter be several pages long matter?

Depending on how your readers view your work the pages may not even appear, if instance if the reader downloads the text version.

I can understand you getting upset if the software forced chapter length. But then it is doing that already, isn't it? Since you stated that to avoid a multipage chapter, you chop the story into chapters that don't flow with the story, but instead exist simply to avoid multi page chapters.

Isn't that rather like cutting off your nose despite your face?

cutting off your nose despite your face

not quite the standard expression

not quite the standard expression

Auto correct is a bitch.

In a merged story, every original story is a chapter, unless that chapter would be more than one page.

I have to agree with JoyR. You're making it worse by breaking a clear separation of one story per chapter. After a few chapters the reader expects a completed story per chapter and then he suddenly runs into a chapter that is not a complete story. There's nothing wrong with multiple pages in a chapter, there are many of them on SOL and the page break algorithm is pretty good these days. If you really hate the automatic page breaks so much you are better of leaving those stories out of the compendium and keep them as separate stories that you can split into chapters where you want the breaks to appear.

Imaginary chapters and real chapters - I knew writing was complex!

Imaginary chapters and real chapters - I knew writing was complex!

Hey, we haven't even covered fractional and decimal chapters yet. :)

decimal chapters

Dewey was supposed to cover those, but he got sidetracked by all the rational (=fractional) ones into covering just the non-fictional books.

There do seem to be a few irrational chapters about, especially those that are not integral to the plot. I don't know where the transcendental chapters come in - possibly the Bible? (that lets me add in ℵ to cover the infinities)

decimal chapters

What about hexadecimal chapters? Or would that only be in grimoires?

madnige 9/15/2020, 7:05:23 PM
@richardshagrinImaginary chapters and real chapters - I knew writing was complex!

Hisssss!

Hisssss!

Herssss!

And then there is the chocolate girl Her she(y).

And then there is the chocolate girl Her she(y).

She has a brother(?) named His She(y). His girlfriend wanted to know if it would fit..