I have been considering using Patreon as a way to make some income from my writing, as I have been out of work for some time. And was hoping to get some feedback from others about this.
Is it even worth bothering with this? I have been writing for over 2 decades, purely for my own enjoyment. But I have had more than one fan ask if I used the service.
The few here who have used it don't like for different reasons. First is they do not like sexually graphic stories and will eventually close your account down, and you getting the money not yet delivered to you becomes extremely problematical.
I don't use it because I find selling the finished stories as e-books on www.lulu.com and bookapy.com to be a fairer proposition of goods for money instead of a a promise of money for a promise of a story.
A lot of people who have any sense of privacy won't touch patreon. It only works for those writers that already have a substantial and consistent set of followers. Do what Ernest suggested: Lulu and Bookapy.
Depends on many factors.
First of all: Don't think of it as a bookstore to sell your books from. That's why many of the people on here say it doesn't work.
You need:
- consistent writing (chapters every week to a month)
- a big fanbase or a very dedicated one
- an ongoing series is what works for most successful authors
- all of your work free of charge on the internet (with the option for older works on sale as a polished ebook or something)
- a plan on what the supporters get for supporting you
- a basic concept on wh
Depends on many factors.
A very concise list and indeed why it's only viable for very few authors.
I have used it quite successfully, and what to reiterate what @sunkuwan said - it's not about selling books (use Bookapy for that), it's about a way for your fan base to support you. In my case, it's very early access to my ongoing and new stories, as well as additional content (e.g. images, side stories, 'cutting room floor' snippets, etc).
You need consistent output, such that your backers gain something for their patronage, and you need to provide consistent, quality work. To use a combination of SOL and Patreon, you have to be sure you honor the rules here. I was one of the first to use Patreon and confirmed how I would handle it with Lazeez before I began.
As for @Ernest_Bywater's comments about sexually graphic stories resulting in being banned, I haven't found that to be the case. At least in the US, text-based erotica which does not feature snuff or pre-pubescents is not considered obscene so long as it has some social or political value (it's a bit more complicated, but that's the gist of it).
Patreon have also stated quite clearly that they would not ban stories like Lolita or Game of Thrones. The people who have gotten into trouble generally either had images, which is a whole different ballpark (but generally, in the US, it's only real images which run the risk of child porn charges; some jurisdictions may say they are obscene, but that's a tough case for a prosecutor to make under the 1st Amendment).
The key is to ensure there is no public mention of the 'extreme' contents and to ensure your page is flagged 18+. And stick to written stories with political, social, philosophical, or historical content. It's worked for several of us.
BUT, and it bears repeating, posting to SOL to gain patrons means honoring the rules here, too. For me, that means posting all the books of my universe for free on SOL as each book is completed, though after it has been shared with my patrons.
YMMV.
it's about a way for your fan base to support you.
They can do that by buying books. I've also had a few offer donations which can easily be handled by giving them the PayPal a/c I have for being paid by Lulu and Bookapy. So that's easy.
My biggest concern with Patreon is when you get writers like a few I've seen who turn a 2,000 word so-so scene into a 5,000+ word of crap in order to meet their Patreon promise of 5,000 words a week or month or whatever.
As to what they allow, ask JTRyter about his experiences with Patreon, of just check the past forum posts about it. I can't remember the others at this moment, but two other authors had the same issues with Patreon about stories with graphically worded sex scenes.
As to Lolita, the copy I read years ago did not have graphically worded sex scenes, although it did imply under age sex occurred. I don't know if it was the original wording or not, but it didn't even rate an MA for what was in it beyond the ages involved. Thus I'd not use that as a valid standard for sex stories.
They can do that by buying books.
There's a successful traditional and self-published Fantasy author who gives advice on wattpad (Michael J. Sullivan) who uses GoFundMe or some funding site. He's sold millions of books worldwide and has a huge following. He uses the funding site to raise money to fund his next self-published novel, everything from the time it takes to write to the cost of editing, cover creation, printing, etc. The people who give him money get something for it. But the reason they do it is for him to write his next book.
I thought Patreon was more like that. To support the artist so that they complete their next work.
The people who give him money get something for it. But the reason they do it is for him to write his next book.
I thought Patreon was more like that. To support the artist so that they complete their next work.
I have used Patreon as a reader - not as an author. It has a clunky interface - not nearly as easy to use as SOL. It's relatively easy to use if you already know the author's name who you wish to follow, but finding a new author you might like is almost impossible. It seems to me, with those difficulties, it would be very difficult to build readership using Patreon alone. No author on Patreon is likely to have many followers unless the readers follow from some other site, like SOL.
I thought Patreon was more like that. To support the artist so that they complete their next work.
That is the basic point. In my case, they get early release copies of my work in exchange for their ongoing support.
I thought Patreon was more like that. To support the artist so that they complete their next work.
That is the basic point. In my case, they get early release copies of my work in exchange for their ongoing support.
I just got an email from Michael J. Sullivan (I'm on his mailing list). He uses Kickstarter (not Patreon). His latest book was fully funded in 48 minutes from launch. What "fully funded" is he didn't say, but so far it's up to $108,000.
Of course to be successful like him, you need a huge following. This is what patrons get:
Backers receive perks they can't receive when buying through the retail chain, and I earn a higher % of the sale (by cutting out the middlemen). Here are some other advantages of backing:
- Receive the ebook over a month before the retail release
- Have your name printed in the acknowledgments as a patron of the arts
- Signed, discounted hardcovers ($25 rather than $27 or $28)
- Signed, custom bookmarks
- DRM-free ebooks
- Screensavers featuring artwork by Marc Simonetti
- 12 bonus short stories
- And if we reach our next stretch goal, we'll create an "Insiders Guide to Legends" which will delve into the creation process, the publishing aspects, and other behind the scenes stories about the series.
Of course to be successful like him, you need a huge following.
Or a following of one billionaire. :)
Of course to be successful like him, you need a huge following.
No doubt. But the AWLL/GM books would fill 120 hardcover novels. Nobody could afford them!
As to what they allow, ask JTRyter about his experiences with Patreon, of just check the past forum posts about it. I can't remember the others at this moment, but two other authors had the same issues with Patreon about stories with graphically worded sex scenes.
Given Patreon has numerous adult artists who are successful (so long as they stay properly behind the paywall), I beg to differ. I participate in their creator forums and the vast majority of the creators are individuals with pages that have the 18+ tag.
I use Patreon. I like it. I am now responsible for producing content to people who are willing to pay me to do it and there's a reward for producing every month. Without it, I wouldn't have produce 10% of what I've written in the last 2 years. I don't make much money but the pressure and responsibility of producing enough makes me a writer.
And my close friends brag that I'm their paid professional pornographer friend. Excellent icebreaker in bars.