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The Return of the 10,000 word 'Story' on Bookapy?

Vincent Berg 🚫
Updated:

Years ago, several authors on various sites started playing games with story sites like SOL, SW and Amazon, by posting super short 10,000 word 'novels' that are literally only a third of a proper novelette. The idea was to push a variety of short erotica tales, charging exhorbinate rates for stories with virtually no plot, no real character development, and no real future potential.

The biggest upside, though, was by churning out these 'quickies', you could rake in money while peddling wares that the sites generally don't allow: like incest stories on Amazon, or underaged stories virtually anywhere nowadays. If the site cancelled your more recent sales and deleted your account, you could easily create a new one, and peddle several more 10,000 work 'books' in only a couple weeks.

For those of us who struggle to produce legitimate novels, it seems like a scam, a way of playing fast and loose with numbers. Though several have claimed to have earned high five-digit incomes churning out this nonsense (none with an evidence of such sales, however), it's recently fallen out of favorβ€”only to return again to Bookapy.

Any thoughts on the topic? Does anyone prefer paying top dollars for short jerkoff stories? Or do readers prefer the free 30+ chapter stories on SOL, or at least the well-thought out tales in complete novels?

In short, am I missing a trend by being a fuddy-duddy, or is there a real market for this stuff?

Dominions Son 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Any thoughts on the topic? Does anyone prefer paying top dollars for short jerkoff stories?

I got bit by this a couple of times on Amazon, until I figured out that the details towards the bottom of an ebook's page had the size.

Pocket book (mass-market paperback) prices these days run $7.99 to around $15.99. I won't pay those kinds of prices for a short story. for a 10K word story I wouldn't pay much more than $2.

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

Amazon, by posting super short 10,000 word 'novels'

It was done on Amazon because of their Kindle Unlimited program. In the early days of the program, as long as someone read (I think it was) 20% of your book you got paid. So instead of publishing one large book, authors gaming the system broke them up into 3 books and got paid 3 times instead of once. Plus it was easier to get the 20% read. Amazon fixed the problem by paying pages read.

I was surprised to see an 8,500 word story for sale on Bookapy. That's not a novel or novella. It's a short story. In fact, the story is available in the general free section of SOL, so what's the point of putting it on Bookapy?

I believe having them on Bookapy diminishes the legitimacy of Bookapy.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I was surprised to see an 8,500 word story for sale on Bookapy.

That would depend on the price, I think. I've got a couple of books that are under 10,000 words on Bookapy, but they're freebies and I see them as being a way to spread the message in them while also allowing someone not familiar with SoL to get a freebie and help promote Bookapy. I do try to have what I charge for to be 50,000 plus words, so most shorter stories get put into collections for sale.

Replies:   Switch Blayde  Lumpy
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

That would depend on the price, I think.

I think of Bookapy and Amazon and others as bookstores. You wouldn't expect a book in a bookstore to be a short story. A collection of short stories, but not a short story.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 🚫

@Switch Blayde

My personal preference is for longer stories. Anything less than 50 or so thousand words I won't pay for in any format. That includes a collection of short stories.

Lumpy 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

I noticed that 8,500 word story and that it was the same price as my 50k to 120k stories (which are all priced the same). I wonder if I am massively under-pricing my books.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Lumpy

I wonder if I am massively under-pricing my books.

Pricing is an art.

Price it too low and some people will equate that with poor quality. Price it too high and it will be too expensive for some.

Don't go by that story. It's overpriced.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Pricing is an art.

Price it too low and some people will equate that with poor quality. Price it too high and it will be too expensive for some.

There's art, and then there's 'the art' of the scam.

An attempt to avoid writing an entire novel, yet hoping to jump start their writing career by selling short tripe for the full price as a 70,000 to 150,000 novel is nothing short of gaming the system.

I can certainly see why it's so popular, as writing is tough, and on an hourly basis, it pays shit for wages. But I certainly don't condone someone playing fast and loose with the truth, as it gives every SOL author a bad name.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Vincent Berg

selling short tripe for the full price as a 70,000 to 150,000 novel is nothing short of gaming the system.

When I was young, I read a novel called "Johnathan Livingston Seagull." The bestseller was very good and only 12,500 words.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@Switch Blayde

When I was young, I read a novel called "Johnathan Livingston Seagull." The bestseller was very good and only 12,500 words.

I remember the story well, and though written as a children's story (styled as, I should say) it was actually rich in metaphor and imagery, much like the earlier Watership Down, which featured a war between rabbit barrens). Plus, at the time, it was considerably cheaper than the typical novel was.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I was surprised to see an 8,500 word story for sale on Bookapy. That's not a novel or novella. It's a short story. In fact, the story is available in the general free section of SOL, so what's the point of putting it on Bookapy?

Some readers like to buy e-book versions as a way of saying 'thank you' to the author. It's certainly better for SOL than readers going to Patreon or Amazon.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Some readers like to buy e-book versions as a way of saying 'thank you' to the author. It's certainly better for SOL than readers going to Patreon or Amazon.

Exactly this, at least for me. I bought multiple books from Bookapy, except for one I already had all of them. I just bought them to support the authors. I don't even read epubs, just SOL converted html.

Banadin 🚫

I don't get it, there is no scam. Stories are clearly labeled as to price, length, and content. You buy it or you dont.

Keet 🚫

Compare it to a 30 second song as opposed to a 3-5 minute song (the average length). A CD would have to have a lot of songs to be worth the current CD pricing and radio would sound more like a continuous stream of adds then real music between all the advertising.
Once in a while is OK but not if the numbers start to build up.

anim8ed 🚫

A while back I researched word counts and where people defined terms. I looked at Science Fiction Writers Association and similar bodies that give out recognized awards for writers. Almost universally they define a novel as being a minimum of 40,000 words. Defining novellas, novelettes and short stories was a lot more varied. Novellas were under 40,000 words at the high end starting at between 15 and 20k words at the low end. Novelettes were only defined by a few of the groups and fell between 12 and 20k word counts.

The big defining item was chapters. If a story has chapter breaks it is usually a novella or novelette. No chapter breaks is usually defined as a short story with anything under 1,000 words being flash fiction.

10,000 word short stories should be combined into an anthology and sold that way. As a consumer I vote with my dollars (insert currency of choice). I can tell when a writer or company has a marketing plan that is designed specifically to bleed my wallet. Think about all the free to play (pay to win) games out there. I refuse to do business with anyone that does not respect me as a consumer.

The only thing that the management of Bookapy can do is to be sure if the author uses the term 'novel' that it is novel length. That would mean defining the terms and putting them in the user's agreement along with a rule about misrepresenting your product.

Replies:   Keet  Vincent Berg
Keet 🚫

@anim8ed

The only thing that the management of Bookapy can do is to be sure if the author uses the term 'novel' that it is novel length. That would mean defining the terms and putting them in the user's agreement along with a rule about misrepresenting your product.

That would not be bad for any ebook store. It clarifies the boundaries for the customer and prohibits abuse of terms for books that don't fit.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Keet

That would not be bad for any ebook store. It clarifies the boundaries for the customer and prohibits abuse of terms for books that don't fit.

Lazeez could automate it based on the word count, thereby removing the ability to falsify the classification. So long as the terms are defined somewhere. That is of course provided the only criterial is word count.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@joyR

Lazeez could automate it based on the word count,

That could be a slippery slope.
The fact he supplies the word count should suffice.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Switch Blayde

That could be a slippery slope.
The fact he supplies the word count should suffice.

A slippery slope to what?

EB stated the word count is entered by the author not generated/supplied by Lazeez. So using it for anything automated is kind of pointless.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@anim8ed

The only thing that the management of Bookapy can do is to be sure if the author uses the term 'novel' that it is novel length. That would mean defining the terms and putting them in the user's agreement along with a rule about misrepresenting your product.

Nowhere in the Bookapy submission process does it ask what type (novel, novelette or short story) the work is, and I can't recall having seen any that declare that they're "novels".

Ernest Bywater 🚫

The way the Bookapy system works the author publishing on the site enters the story size as a word count and that shows on the page when someone links to the page for the story. All of the information is there for people to look at before they buy, so who cares what size the e-book is - - as long as no one lies about the word count.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

The way the Bookapy system works the author publishing on the site enters the story size as a word count

My bad, I thought the word count was generated not entered.

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