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Forum: Author Hangout

Authors: Have you been swarmed by negativity?

Eddie Davidson 🚫

This is a blog post I made but I felt it may also belong on the forum. Just scanning some of the posts here I think I am not alone in my experience.

Let me begin by saying Occam's Razor tells me the simplest answer is that I could be a terrible writer or at the very least wrote a terrible story.

I am reminded there have been many musicians I really enjoyed who later released a song I didn't like. It doesn't usually work like that for authors. You may like Pearl Jam's first album but later work wasn't as slick/radio friendly as an example. It doesn't make them bad musicians or take away what I liked about them. It just means that I don't get into the new stuff. I wouldn't send them a nastygram about it though.

As an example, I can't stand 50 shades of gray.

The Batman of BDSM: Handsome billionaire with way too much time on his hands. He sits around all day drinking champagne in limousines dealing with a woman he wants to have sex with when he could just as easily HIRE professional BDSM models to come give him the time of his life. The story does nothing for me because I cannot relate to any of it. That being said, would I downvote it a 1 of "You call this a story?" if it were on this site?

No! It is obviously a story and enough people liked it that they made it into a series, movies, you can even buy their official sex toys.

I am caught up with my Homeowner's Association Story and just editing chapters now. I had some spare creativity and did a little writing exercise.

I won't say I never get negative feedback on that story but it's been mostly positive. That means to me that I am capable of telling an enjoyable story. I recently received a very lengthy comment on the story that said something along the lines of:

"Hey, (I have a short attention span) and only read the first part of your story and the last part. The characters suck, you suck. They would never be there. It is totally implausible. Charity is a sex-doll with no personality, etc." etc.

He totally missed every point in the story. The story is supposed to be a fish out of water story. It is based on another story with the same premise that was never completed. The idea is what would happen if a Kinky couple with a vanilla family moved to a kink friendly community.
Yes, the family is dysfunctional and flawed. I love characters like that. They have the most potential for growth/change. They are also the most real.
Implausible? On a site where stories are about mind control, and alien invasions? Yeah, it is. That's why its a fantasy story and not a true story.
Charity is the first selfless, true loving submissive I've ever written as a main character. She is based on dozens of women I've known who are JUST like here. Had he read the middle he'd see that she does reveal her inner thoughts to the main character. She laughs, she has insecurities, she worries, she has a jaded past that she is ashamed of and regret. She doesn't do that throughout the story though or it would not be special when she opens up to him.
He is also not going to write that his father is a God-King of all Omnscience. As a teenager, he respect his father but he thinks he is wrong sometimes and doesn't always understand his motivations. His father is flawed as well, he makes mistakes and he learns from them.
That is the whole fucking point of the story.

That being said, I value feedback like this because someone took the time to read and write about how they completely misunderstood everything. It isn't "Constructive" because I am not going to change one fucking thing about how I write the story because of his short attention span. In fact, if anything he confirmed me for me that this story isn't for his type of audience. The people who have patiently been with this through every chapter and are enjoying the subtle changes are my target audience. I am writing it for myself and that is who I am as well.

What I am talking about today is not that kind of feedback.

I usually write in 1st person. I like to put myself in the perspective of someone telling a story from their point of view. in the case of HOA its a kid so wet behind the ears, desperate for sex that he reminds me of me at that age. I can relate to him.

There are a lot of positives to writing that 1st person POV. The best is that you don't have to reveal the true motivations of other characters. You can surprise the reader at the same time as the person telling the story. You can also demonstrate their evolution over time. In the case of the HOA story, he is intended to be wet behind the ears and shy. Over time, he will (hopefully) grow in confidence and evolve.

I decided to write "The Hot Mom" in third person. This too has advantages especially for a short story like this one. My original outline called for 6 chapters. You can get right into things without a lot of exposition as an impartial narrator. It is admittedly not a style of writing I would consider my forte'

However, I had edited the story, checked it for grammar and did my best to make the first chapter pop. I wanted to try something different for me. Instead of my normal slow plodding pace of getting started where I develop the characters I jumped right into a sexual situation.

Author's sometimes use this device where they get the reader's attention and then say "Six months later.." in the second chapter and start from the beginning so they can develop the character. My plan was to do that except in Chapter Two add the twist of setting the events three days after the 1st chapter but having the main character flashback on what brought her to this situation. As I said, this is a pretty common writing technique I've seen but one I've never done before.

In Hotmom, I base her on the idea of a "Hot Wife" who likes having her husband's permission to be a slut. It allows her to be nasty without it feeling like it was all her idea.
Except in this case, she is divorced and close to her son so the son is the surrogate husband for this purpose.

I posted it last night. I received three comments all within 15 minutes from three different users saying
"This is Garbage" pretty much.

I think we all know what constructive feedback is. However, for sake of discussion let me clear: That isn't constructive.

"I didn't like this story because (it had many grammatical errors and was difficult to understand)"

There are some people who ignore story codes and the description and read the story. Then they get pissy because they don't like stories with those elements. That isn't constructive feedback either. It'd be like if I hated BDSM and went to see 50 shades of Gray and then said "It sucked".
"Okay, but it was exactly what they told you it was going to be"

Don't go to a steak restaurant if you are a vegan and rate it bad because you don't like steak.

Now, it is entirely possibly the person who left those comments was the same guy. On the Internet, you can easily create three accounts. You can also post with multiple pen names. The accounts were all a word and then 4 numbers. They also emailed me some snotty grams like "Please stop." and nothing else.

My initial reaction was as I said earlier: It is very possible I made a huge mistake with this story and did it poorly. However, even if I did, put yourselves in the shoes of a new author on this site.

Imagine you finally get the courage to put a story out there. Instead of helping you get better, you get a barrage of snotgrams telling you basically to never write again.

If you have recently been swarmed by negative comments like mine please contact me. I don't want to post their user names because everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if it turns out they are swarming other people the same way (Which I am going to go out on a limb and say they probably are) then I will turn it over to the web admin and ask them to handle it.

The webmaster spends a lot of time and resources on this site and it shows. Ultimately, they will do what is best for the site.

BarBar 🚫

Hey Eddie. I'm sorry you had this experience. Sadly there are people in this world who make themselves feel better by tearing other people down. When we write and put our writing up for others to read we leave ourselves open to those individuals. Personally, I choose to believe that they are in a minority and that the vast majority appreciate our efforts to entertain them. I haven't read your Hot Mom story but I notice you've already had over 1000 downloads. That's 1000 people who have read your first chapter and you've had 3 negative comments (possibly from one negative individual). Take that as 997 neutral or positive reactions. I've read some of your Summer Vacation stories and I enjoyed what I read. Keep writing. Don't let the losers drag you down.

Redsliver 🚫

I found, except for a moment a few days ago, that the negative feedback I've received on SOL has been good for me. And I think that one bad moment was the reader forgetting he already told me the very same problem he had with my premise.

Honestly, I'd say my problem with SOL is I haven't had enough negative feedback. Not verbally.

When I posted Every Woman Has A Price it got trashed in the ratings but everyone who spoke up did so with positive interest. As more chapters have come out, the rating has steadily risen. I still have no idea why the first chapter was panned.

The bad news is there are a lot of people out there who can tell you that your story rubbed them the wrong way, they didn't like it, or there was something that irritated their intuitions. The worse news is its likely they'll have no capability in telling you how to improve it. And if they do offer advice it will likely prove to be complete horseshit.

That boils down to: if you're getting "I don't like this." reviews without detail, there might be something wrong. I haven't read your stories, I don't know. It might be that someone didn't read the tags and is a brat. It might be that they're bad at communicating.

What I'm confident is that your writing might be good. It might be great. It's not perfect. No such animal. Take a deep breath, it sucks to have your ego stepped on, but go back and take another look.

My best tool has been getting a text to speech reader. I have had a lot of trouble putting fresh eyes to what I've written because I get in my head and start reading what I wanted to convey in the first place. Fresh ears though, that has really helped me.

So, yeah, even if you ran into a shitshow of an audience, salve your wounded ego and use that badly defined kick in the teeth. Make the next thing you write even better.

BarBar gave you some great advice:

Keep writing. Don't let the losers drag you down.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@Redsliver

Honestly, I'd say my problem with SOL is I haven't had enough negative feedback. Not verbally.

The problem is that, for shorter stories, you get the 'immediate responses' (i.e. I loved it or I hated it), while with the extended series, which stretch out over longer periods, readers often respond to specifics (i.e. I loved this specific thing in this specific chapter). Thus it's yet another penalty against NOT writing/posting 20 or 50+ chapter books over the span of months or years. it's also partially why short stories are rated SO low, regardless of the quality of writing.

Replies:   Redsliver
Redsliver 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Thus it's yet another penalty against NOT writing/posting 20 or 50+ chapter books over the span of months or years.

Which is what I do. Still, I find people who have something nice to say are the people who read the story long enough to get to the link to send a comment. For short stories, unhappy readers are probably more capable of getting deep enough to send a message.

graybyrd 🚫
Updated:

It's pretty much a given that writers need a rhino-tough skin to face rejection, criticism, and negative comments. Submitting a work of personal creativity for public scrutiny is a bit like walking around bare-assed at a drunken fraternity party. It's rather expected that somebody will take a hard swat... or worse.

Even today writers are well advised to expect a succession of rejection letters from agents and publishers. The general advice, if you seek to overcome the barriers, is to toughen up and perservere. Or not.

Fair? Probably not. It's just part of swimming naked in the pond. There's always something seeking an easy target. Screaming at the snapping turtle that latched on to your toggle does little good to loosen its jaws.

Helpful? Probably not. But its the world we live in. The only way to escape it is to not share what we write.

So, grin and bare it... eh?

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg 🚫

@graybyrd

Helpful? Probably not. But its the world we live in. The only way to escape it is to not share what we write.

So, grin and bare it... eh?

Unfortunately, the worst response is to whine and moan about it online, as it's attracts those looking to tear someone down, while announcing to loyal readers that you're not confident in your own work. Thus it's like nasty reviews. It's always best (though tough to do) to let the criticism roll off like water off of a duck's back, as attacking the reviewer means yo're looking for a fight, and makes everything you do seem seem suspect. No good comes from either attacking people online, or whining about how unfair life is.

We all suffer every day, yet it's not the best/worst story that people remember, it's how the individual persevered and overcame their strife, however minor. It's the universal struggle, not the proverbial pea under the bed that matters in the end.

In short, if you want sympathy, ask your new girlfriend or your local bartender (as long as you keep paying your tab). If you want to commiserate, take it offline and do it in private, but if you want specific advice, take it online while expecting to dodge a few stones. ;(

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Eddie Davidson

My initial reaction was as I said earlier: It is very possible I made a huge mistake with this story and did it poorly.

As you said, it's impossible to know whether he's being petty or it's, in fact, a problem with your writing. That's why it's often essential, when providing author feedback, to quote specific references, so we have some context. Otherwise, it's simply "I hated/loved it" rather than specific advice about your writing.

It's one thing to say (or suggest) that this particular technique didn't work for them, but simply saying "it's bad" (or "it's wonderful") offers nothing of value.

Uther_Pendragon 🚫

@Eddie Davidson

Not recently.

I have received some corrections on my geography and history in my last story, but they were right, and I was wrong. I WANT to be told when I've made a mistake.

Honey_Moon 🚫

I have actually been accused more that one (More that a dozen) times of having "Too much plot, and not enough sex" in my stories. I can't write a "Flash" or "Stroke-story" I have to have some kind of plot-line!

Back when I wrote "The Dryden DNA Disaster" I got a lot of email claiming that I "hate men".

Oddly, my "My Little Pony" fanfic actually generated an honest to goodness death threat! Bronies take their ponies seriously, and accused ME of RAPING Rainbow Dash!

Replies:   Vincent Berg  Redsliver  joyR
Vincent Berg 🚫

@Honey_Moon

Oddly, my "My Little Pony" fanfic actually generated an honest to goodness death threat! Bronies take their ponies seriously, and accused ME of RAPING Rainbow Dash!

Ha-ha, the only response to that is to write a new story: Slaughtering my Raped Brony! if they can't handle fiction, screw themβ€”hard!

In most cases authors have the last word, when they write extensively about their accusers.

Redsliver 🚫

@Honey_Moon

Oddly, my "My Little Pony" fanfic actually generated an honest to goodness death threat! Bronies take their ponies seriously, and accused ME of RAPING Rainbow Dash!

That's absurd. So long as you left Fluttershy alone.

joyR 🚫

@Honey_Moon

I got a lot of email claiming that I "hate men".

If you are, or probably if you appear to be a woman writer then at some point you are going to be accused of being a 'man hater'.

The fact is that most stories about lesbians are written by men and most of those who read them are men. It is often laughably easy to tell when a guy is writing lesbian stories, even ignoring the obvious stuff like 'two lesbians and a guy' or 'the lesbian cured by getting a good hard cock'.

The really funny part is that when a guy reads lesbian porn written by and for lesbians, he almost always marks it down because it 'lacks appeal', so in truth, 'fake' lez scores higher. Some of us just find this funny as fuck.

Why would a lesbian writer care about how guys react to her story? It is often male ego that drives the 'man hater' thing because they can't grasp the simple fact that they are unimportant and not catered to at all.

There is a relationship between writers and readers that is not often discussed. In the same way as writers are often advised to 'write what they know', readers gravitate to story genres that resonate with them. So when an author writes underage stories but claims they are not a pedo, they are lying, as are their readers if they too claim innocence. Ok, a high profile example, but the same applies to gun porn, car porn, sci-fi, etc etc.

Write a Master/slave story without any real knowledge and you WILL get bombed by those with knowledge because of the often massive inaccuracies portrayed.

Getting back to the point, the guy who accuses you of being a 'man hater' has ego issues and is insecure enough to allow themselves to be hurt by words on a page/screen. Ignore them, but be gentle, it's not polite to eviscerate the afflicted.

Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

It is often male ego that drives the 'man hater' thing

There is a not insignificant number of feminists some fairly high up in official feminist organizations like NOW who have publicly claimed that heterosexual sex is inherently rape, and all men are rapists.

My opinion is that these women don't hate men because they are lesbians, they are lesbians because they hate men.

joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

There is a not insignificant number of feminists some fairly high up in official feminist organizations like NOW who have publicly claimed that heterosexual sex is inherently rape, and all men are rapists.

Personally I don't include the deranged, or their opinions, in any rational discussion.

My opinion is that these women don't hate men because they are lesbians, they are lesbians because they hate men.

My opinion is that being a lesbian has NO direct connection with being feminist, in the same way as being a communist has no direct connection with being an ornithologist, it is possible to be both, but not a requirement.

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob 🚫

@joyR

Personally I don't include the deranged, or their opinions, in any rational discussion.

A rational discussion? Just curious. Where would you find a rational discussion?

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@PotomacBob

A rational discussion? Just curious. Where would you find a rational discussion?

Two marines discussing MREs :)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@joyR

MREs

Three lies for the price of one.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

It's interesting how the meaning of 'feminist' has moved to encompass those who believe in female supremacy as well as equality, as exemplified in its list of antonyms.

The same shift in meanings is occurring to encompass male homosexual supremacists and transgender supremacists, who believe that male homosexuals and transgenders respectively deserve more rights than their normal peers.

Me? I pee standing up, which probably enrages some who hold extreme views.

AJ

Replies:   Tw0Cr0ws
Tw0Cr0ws 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Me? I pee standing up, which probably enrages some who hold extreme views.

AJ

Young men in some Scandinavian countries are being cut off from sex by their girlfriends for that.

Joe_Bondi_Beach 🚫
Updated:

@Dominions Son

There is a not insignificant number of feminists some fairly high up in official feminist organizations like NOW who have publicly claimed that heterosexual sex is inherently rape, and all men are rapists.

Andrea Dworking said this in 1987. In addition to asserting she was misunderstood, she said it over 30 years ago.

Whether she was right or not, (ETA: in her original statement or in her claim to have been misunderstood) I'd hesitate to say there today is a "a not insignificant number of feminists some fairly high up in official feminist organizations like NOW" who claim this. Do you have examples beyond Dworkin?

Connecting feminists and lesbians does a disservice do both groups, which in my experience do not overlap very much at all. (ETA again: Even if we could agree on what a "feminist" is, of course.)

~ JBB

Replies:   Tw0Cr0ws
Tw0Cr0ws 🚫

@Joe_Bondi_Beach

Connecting feminists and lesbians does a disservice do both groups, which in my experience do not overlap very much at all.

In the general human population 5 percent of women are lesbians, in the membership of the National Organization of Women 40 percent are lesbians.

Replies:   Joe_Bondi_Beach
Joe_Bondi_Beach 🚫
Updated:

@Tw0Cr0ws

In the general human population 5 percent of women are lesbians, in the membership of the National Organization of Women 40 percent are lesbians.

How many NOW lesbians claim that heterosexual sex is rape?

In the context of this discussion, it is asserted that feminists claim heterosexual relations are rape. That's the assertion I challenge.

If you want to argue that these days gay women (ETA: feminists or not) in general believe heterosexual relations are rape, good luck. You'll have to offer more than Andrea Dworkin's 30-year-old statement.

~ JBB

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 🚫

@Joe_Bondi_Beach

If you want to argue that these days gay women (ETA: feminists or not) in general believe heterosexual relations are rape, good luck. You'll have to offer more than Andrea Dworkin's 30-year-old statement.

I would challenge any assertion on either side of that argument. There is no reliable methodology to prove or disprove it.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

The really funny part is that when a guy reads lesbian porn written by and for lesbians, he almost always marks it down because it 'lacks appeal', so in truth, 'fake' lez scores higher.

I'd be interested to know how lesbians rate the appeal. It seems to me that all sex stories get higher ratings if the sex is exaggerated rather than realistic.

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'd be interested to know how lesbians rate the appeal. It seems to me that all sex stories get higher ratings if the sex is exaggerated rather than realistic.

There is a big difference between exaggeration based on realistic and exaggeration based on fantasy.

It is entirely possible to exaggerate any 'kink' you care to name, but those readers who actually share that kink are going to know when an author is guessing rather than knowing of what they write.

If I exaggerated the performance of a winning race car and then described the engine block as being taken from a trabant...

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

Many lesbian porn stories, even those written by women, mention 'wet panties'. Is that a realistic exaggeration?

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Is that a realistic exaggeration?

Depends... Can you not answer your own question from experience...?

:)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

Depends... Can you not answer your own question from experience...?

I am not, and have never knowingly had sex with, a lesbian. But if Michael Loucks would care to lend me some of his lesbians, I'm game for a scientific experiment :)

AJ

Replies:   joyR  Michael Loucks
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I am not, and have never knowingly had sex with, a lesbian.

Of course not..!! But I couldn't help giggling to myself at the thought of you admitting to walking up to a lesbian to ask. "Do I make your panties wet?"

:)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

But I couldn't help giggling to myself at the thought of you admitting to walking up to a lesbian to ask. "Do I make your panties wet?"

Unfortunately it would be because of how scary (a la Worzel Gummidge) I look rather than my lesbian appeal.

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

(a la Worzel Gummidge)

You could try searching for a sexy female turnip... :)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@joyR

You could try searching for a sexy female turnip.

I know the retort you're expecting but I'm not a fan of blondes and the archetypal female Swede is blonde :(

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'm not a fan of blondes

You refuse to fan an overheated blonde...? I thought you'd oscillate a little... :)

Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

I am not, and have never knowingly had sex with, a lesbian. But if Michael Loucks would care to lend me some of his lesbians, I'm game for a scientific experiment :)

Context is everything! The 70s and 80s timeframe had a very different social environment than the 90s and later. There were a LOT of people 'in the closet' who didn't come out publicly until much later (if at all). I know this sounds a bit defensive, but the stories reflect that. And, honestly, there are only a couple of specific characters that one can point to:

Jennifer - orientation confused, pressured to be straight, and after conceiving is exclusively lesbian in a lifetime relationship. Her partner, Josie, is bi. Based on a real person I first met in High School in 1976.

Katy - bisexual but with a strong preference for a female partner; married before discovering that preference, for which there is ample precedent. Now self-identifies as a lesbian. Based on a real person I first met at university in 1981.

The few others in AWLL were very often failed experiments, or the girls turned out to be bi. You will note that NONE of them 'turned straight'.

Anything in GM which I discussed at this point, beyond acknowledging that Clarissa is a self-described lesbian, would be a spoiler.

Oh, and as for 'soaked panties' at least in my stories, it's a euphemism for being very excited. I'm pretty sure I only mentioned actual 'wet spots' on panties a few times. Wet spots on sheets are a real thing. :-)

Redsliver 🚫

@joyR

Why would a lesbian writer care about how guys react to her story?

Market share? Though women consume such a massive chunk of the written smut market, catering to men does seem short-sighted. I suspect it'd be best to cater to straight women who like lesbian porn.

Being a communist has no direct connection with being an ornithologist.

I'm just going to start posting this quote everywhere. It is a lot out of context.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Redsliver

Market share?

Nope. For the same reason a fashion writer does not cater to railway enthusiasts.

I'm just going to start posting this quote everywhere. It is a lot out of context.

Feel free, but you would need to quote it in context to get the meaning. :)

Replies:   Redsliver
Redsliver 🚫

@joyR

Nope. For the same reason a fashion writer does not cater to railway enthusiasts.

Instead of just postulating, I went to google. (I have two whole data points self reported from authors not publishers! The publishers would probably be more cutthroat in the numbers.) It seems women buy 70% of all written material, and that's up to 80% of romance and erotica. This suggests there's probably potentially 4 lesbian readers for every 19 straight male readers. That said, lesbian porn does sell to enough women it must appeal in some way to straight women, if pornhub reported data correlates to readers. If market share is THE consideration, always sell to straight women.

In conclusion rewrite Beauty and The Beast, make Belle less interesting and Beast more dangerous.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@joyR

So when an author writes underage stories but claims they are not a pedo, they are lying, as are their readers if they too claim innocence.

'Underage' as in under 18? The age of consent is lower in most of the Western world.

'Pedo' is attraction to prepubescent and is considered to be a psychiatric disorder.

Attraction to properly developed teenagers is ephebophilia and is considered to be normal. Age of consent laws range from 14-18 in western countries.

The confusion of the terms is intentional, for the most part, with the moral panic that has been created by teenage sexuality, at least in the USA.

Replies:   Dominions Son  joyR
Dominions Son 🚫

@Michael Loucks

'Underage' as in under 18? The age of consent is lower in most of the Western world.

It's lower than that in most of the US. Age of consent is a state law issue and splits 3 ways with 16, 17 and 18.

Note: Median age of consent among the several states in the 1890s was 10.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Dominions Son

Note: Median age of consent among the several states in the 1890s was 10.

And average age at death was around 42

Underage with regards to sexual activity ought to apply until such time as the person can choose, because they are able to make an informed decision as to if they want to participate and to what degree.

However, since a law is 'one size fits all' it means that whilst legally one might be legally too young or old enough, in fact one may well not be ready, or will have been ready for some time. The intent of both parties should also be a factor.

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob 🚫

@joyR

The intent of both parties should also be a factor.

You expect lawmakers to reason?
In the late 1960s, many state legislatures lowered the drinking age to 18 - under the reasoning that, if they're old enough to fight our war in Vietnam they're old enough to drink. That lasted several years until the Reagan Administration, under pressure from insurance companies, passed a one-size-fits-all rule that told states that unless you raise the drinking age in your state to 21, you will not get any federal highway money.

Replies:   joyR  Michael Loucks
joyR 🚫

@PotomacBob

You expect lawmakers to reason?

Of course not..!!

Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

That lasted several years until the Reagan Administration, under pressure from insurance companies, passed a one-size-fits-all rule that told states that unless you raise the drinking age in your state to 21, you will not get any federal highway money.

The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 was authored by Senator Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ), under pressure from MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Driving). A state which refused to comply by banning the sale (not consumption) of alcohol to anyone under 21 risked losing 10% of their highway funds.

It passed the US Senate by a vote of 81-16, and the House by voice vote (with amendments agreed to by unanimous consent). (Senate was 54R, 46D; House was 269D, 166R).

The Supreme Court ruled this to be constitutional in South Dakota v. Dole because it left the decision to the states.

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Michael Loucks

The Supreme Court ruled this to be constitutional in South Dakota v. Dole because it left the decision to the states.

Presumably the Supreme Court see nothing wrong with coercion and blackmail. A state threatened with budgetary cuts if they 'choose' wrong is not making a free choice.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@joyR

Presumably the Supreme Court see nothing wrong with coercion and blackmail. A state threatened with budgetary cuts if they 'choose' wrong is not making a free choice.

You are quite correct, and that kind of BS (along with unfunded mandates) is a direct product of the 17th Amendment, which completely upset the balance of power between the states and the national government.

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob 🚫

@Michael Loucks

You are quite correct, and that kind of BS (along with unfunded mandates) is a direct product of the 17th Amendment,

I don't understand why popular election of Senators (as opposed to having them chosen by state legislators) is a "direct product" of either unfunded mandates or Congress placing restrictions on appropriations. Could you expand on the debate?

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@PotomacBob

I don't understand why popular election of Senators (as opposed to having them chosen by state legislators) is a "direct product" of either unfunded mandates or Congress placing restrictions on appropriations. Could you expand on the debate?

What Senator, responsible to the State Legislature, rather than the populace, would burden them with unfunded mandates or appropriations restrictions? He or she would never be reappointed.

Senators being responsible to the State Legislature was an important device in limiting the expansion of federal power because they represented the state (which is how it was designed).

joyR 🚫

@Michael Loucks

'Underage' as in under 18?

No. Under age in context.

Redsliver 🚫

It is a lot out of context.

This is why I can't be trusted to proofread my own work. I just straight up didn't write the words of "of fun". Since I can't be trusted, you can all choose where the words go.

Honey_Moon 🚫
Updated:

In my Dryden stories, I actually don't write 'lesbian' characters, well, not all of them are lesbian. There are futa, and monos. The futanari actually biologically cheat, by emitting pheromones that make monos beg for sex.

Dr. Dryden, who took things way too far and genetically altered the human race just so she wouldn't be the only futanari and she could then safely 'come out' accidentally went to far and lowered the sex drive of males to ensure safety for her new futanari sisters. She was afraid men would hate/kill them because of the competition.

It backfired and lowered the male birthrate (Futas only spawn monos and more futas) to the point of eventual male extinction.

Stories based later in the timeline have no males at all on planet Earth.

Sheesh, I got a lot of heat over that!

Oh, and the newly futanari president did detonate a nuclear warhead to wipe out a secret underground lab where some male scientists were on the brink of finding a 'cure' to restore things back to norma. I kind of swiped the 'Wildfire" lab from "The Andromeda Strain"

LOL

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫
Updated:

@Honey_Moon

In my Dryden stories, I actually don't write 'lesbian' characters, well, not all of them are lesbian. There are futa, and monos.

Stories based later in the timeline have no males at all on planet Earth.

If a 'futa' is defined as a woman with a dick, then given the second quote, ALL of your characters are lesbians...

Except of course that mammalian reproduction occurs when 'tab A' is inserted into 'slot B'. Those with the tab are called male, those with the slot are called female. Which means your 'futa' are male...

Wait..!!

They can also get pregnant...

No matter, that situation already exists in nature, and where it exists it is said that they change from 'male' to 'female' (or vice versa), as no third sex is recognised or exists.

Of course being fantasy, facts are ignored, so who cares..?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

No matter, that situation already exists in nature, and where it exists it is said that they change from 'male' to 'female' (or vice versa), as no third sex is recognised or exists.

Except as I understand it the futas don't change back and forth from one gender to the other. They are both at the same time. That situation also exists in nature, though not in humans. It's called a hermaphrodite.

In the real world with humans there are a few very rare genetic anomalies that result in a person who appears to have both male and female genitalia. However, they aren't capable of reproducing both ways, so from a scientific perspective, they are not considered true hermaphrodites.

There is another way for an all female population to reproduce. It's called Parthenogenesis ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis ). Though there are no known cases of it occurring naturally in mammals, it has been observed in some reptiles, sharks and amphibians. With Parthenogenesis, offspring are essentially clones of the mother.

Redsliver 🚫

I've been thinking about I don't write lesbians. I write sexualized cartoons of women who are sexually amplified and attracted to other sexualized cartoons of women in such a way as to match, amplify, or share in the sexual energy, will, and direction of the male lead of my stories.

Much easier than writing believable lesbians and seems to be appreciated by a small but not insubstantial female audience.

Remus2 🚫

This thread has parked it's train in Diego Garcia.

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