Forum: Author Hangout

For the author's posting content to Patreon.

Not_a_ID 🚫
Updated:

Might want to check on this yourselves regarding the licensing agreement you've made with Patreon.

https://jvanstry.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-patreon-licensing-agreement.html?m=1

Good news for you is that so long as the content doesn't actually get hosted on their servers, you're in the clear. If it is on their servers, you've given them a very broad amount of leeway with regards to what they can do with your IP.

Although in another context, it's not entirely different from the terms for SOL itself as I think about it.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

Actually, the Patreon agreement is extremely intrusive while the SoL/WLPC one is not.

The key part is the section about - by posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content - which means they can sell your material to other people and not pay you a cent. They can continue doing that after they close your account. The bolded part is the main issue area. With SoL/WLPC you only give them permission to use your material on their own sites and you can withdraw that permission at any time, but that is not true at Patreon.

Replies: Remus2

Remus2 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

by posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content

I've never had any dealings with them, and after reading that, never will.

Replies: Ernest Bywater Not_a_ID

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Remus2

I've never had any dealings with them, and after reading that, never will.

I agree, it's because Amazon has the same wording that I don't like their site. There are a few sites that use that wording, and most of them are part of the Amazon group of companies, so I try to avoid them.

Not_a_ID 🚫

@Remus2

I've never had any dealings with them, and after reading that, never will.

From the impression the lawyer that Van Stry seems to give, so long as you don't host the content on Patreon, you're in the clear. So you can still use them as a service for raising funds, you just want to make sure that any IP you share with your subscribers doesn't come to them by Patreon's service.

IE, if they get an E-book version of your work upon completion, you distribute those E-books via a third party, such as Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, etc. What you don't do is post the e-book on Patreon itself.

All that being said, looks like Laz has a way to possibly lure a number of authors away from Patreon if he offered a comparable option.

Replies: Remus2 Ernest Bywater

Remus2 🚫

@Not_a_ID

From the impression the lawyer that Van Stry seems to give, so long as you don't host the content on Patreon, you're in the clear.

by posting content to Patreon

It doesn't say on, it says 'to' Patreon. To attorneys, that word counts.

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Not_a_ID

IE, if they get an E-book version of your work upon completion, you distribute those E-books via a third party, such as Amazon, B&N, Smashwords, etc.

The big problem there is both Amazon and Smashwords have the same wording in their contracts, I didn't mention B&N as I've not seen their terms.

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

The big problem there is both Amazon and Smashwords have the same wording in their contracts, I didn't mention B&N as I've not seen their terms.

Chances are, rather than hiring their own attorneys to produce NEW unreadable Terms of Service contracts, they simply 'copy and paste' the terms that other sites have already posted as the current 'proven-safe phrasing' for new companies. Thus, while some, like SWs, are relatively safe, others (like Amazon) are NOT.

That said, I ONLY use Smashwords to access their online store, and don't give them to right to 'distribute' the stories to other, less reliable sites which NEVER request authorization. I DO grant one, D2D, that access, with decidedly mixed results!

Michael Loucks 🚫

Patreon sent out a clarification yesterday which lays out their interpretation of their terms and the reason for each term. Fundamentally, they say they're protecting themselves against claims based on using AWS, keeping things in a database/backups after they're marked for deletion, etc. What you make of their explanation is up to you...

Replies: Not_a_ID

Not_a_ID 🚫

@Michael Loucks

Patreon sent out a clarification yesterday which lays out their interpretation of their terms and the reason for each term. Fundamentally, they say they're protecting themselves against claims based on using AWS, keeping things in a database/backups after they're marked for deletion, etc. What you make of their explanation is up to you...

I would suspect that clarification could be cited as an appendix to the original agreement, at least until their next revision. So authors could hold them to that at the least.

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Forum: Author Hangout

For the author's posting content to Patreon.

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