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High-capacity magazine

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

Ok, you gun enthusiasts. I need a high-capacity magazine for a semi-automatic pistol for a school shooting.

How many rounds are in a high-capacity pistol magazine?

Pistol, not rifle.

Replies:   PotomacBob  tiggerider06
seanski1969 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

30 round magazines used to be sold for Beretta 92fs pistol and some Glocks can take a 33 round magazine, may be others but I'm sure you can get 50 round uzi or tec-9 mags also

Ross at Play ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

I need a high-capacity magazine for a semi-automatic pistol for a school shooting.

The mind boggles. What will the government agent trawling the internet looking for terrorists think when they read that? :-)

seanski1969 ๐Ÿšซ

It is funny since I just did a Google search on high cap magazines for pistols and found these for sale. No worries cause I live in wonderful and sunny California where they are illegal now.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@seanski1969

No worries cause I live in wonderful and sunny California where they are illegal now.

Which means only the criminals will have them, and all of the members of the bigger gangs will have them while the cops and honest people are limited to 10 rounds even when they can get hold of a license to have a gun.

Replies:   oyster50
oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

The limits don't apply to cops, either.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@oyster50

The limits don't apply to cops, either.

They may be exempt from the law, but the state and local governments in the states where the law exists doesn't approve the expenditure for the cops to have anything but the standard magazine that's issued with the gun, so it's an irrelevant point.

Replies:   seanski1969  oyster50
seanski1969 ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Ernest as a resident of California where the Law is in effect I wish you would speak on relevant facts of things you understand. $30-50 for a High Cap Magazine is a cup of coffee. If an officer wants to buy his own have at it. Most if not all police officers in the state of California have salaries which start in the $70,000.00 a year range, and most Officers who start out are usually making in the $100,000.00 a year range because of shift differential and Holiday requirements. I'm sure they can afford it.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@seanski1969

I'm sure they can afford it.

I'm sure many can afford it too, but the issue is the departmental policy on carrying a weapon or magazine other than that issued by the department. Year ago it used to be easy and common for an officer to carry a person weapon as a back up gun, but the feedback I get from some of the US cops i interact with on-line is that the departments won't allow them to carry non-departmental weapons or weapon accessories. Thus my comment on them not having them.

oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Hardly irrelevant - many, if not most, modern issue weapons come with standard magazine capacities above the seven to ten rounds that seem to turn a harmless bit of metal into a weapon of mass destruction.

The Glock G17 came with a STANDARD 17-rounder. AR-15-style rifles come with standard 30-rounders. I never knew a cop who backed off from those capacities.

StarFleetCarl ๐Ÿšซ

@oyster50

I never knew a cop who backed off from those capacities.

Here's some footage of an AR-15 being used by police.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p47ONDlR9aY

Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

@oyster50

many, if not most, modern issue weapons come with standard magazine capacities above the seven to ten rounds

NOT contradicting because that is mostly true but, for those interested, there has been a tiny resurgence of interest in single-stack guns these days. Glock put out a half-dozen new single-stack models in the last couple of years after the popularity of the G36 caused an outcry of "What about my caliber???"

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

Today the term 'high capacity' is more a legal term than anything else, and often means anything above 10 rounds now. What size magazine capacity will depend on the weapon as the magazines have to be made to suit the gun. If you go to the manufacturer's website they usually have an accessories page with larger magazines listed.

Many pistols came with magazines from 7 to 15 rounds, depending on make, model, and caliber. The Glock website at us.glock.com - have a page listing the pistols fro comparison - us.glock.com/products/all - if you select a weapon it will have a page that has the various magazine capacities listed below the gun. The gun on - us.glock.com/products/model/g27gen4 - lists 9 round magazine as standard with options of 13 / 15 / 22 round magazines and I've seen sites where 3rd party magazines of up to 50 rounds are available from some specialist sources.

While you can get 50 round special magazines for some pistols they are an issue doe to the size, weight, and spring issues. Most people who want large magazines for pistols usually go for 20 / 25 / or 30 round magazines with 20 rounds being the most common before they start to interfere with usage.

seanski1969 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

LEO's are exempted and honestly it's always some gun nut more so than the criminals that are involved in mass shootings in the US or terrorists, though Mexico is definitely violent with criminal shootings. Also I think if anyone really watches the news and reads police blotters the number one shooters in America besides suicide is the police department.

Ooops I forgot about Chicago but they're like Mexico now.

Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

Wow, this became a pissing match quickly.

OP: Depends on the pistol but EB is correct in saying that the anti-gunners consider anything over 10 rounds to be hi-cap.

This made me curious.. I am going to go and see if I can get 10 round mags for a G36. I am sure someone makes them and I want to see how ridiculous they look.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@Reluctant_Sir

the anti-gunners consider anything over 10 rounds to be hi-cap.

That's not quite correct. The anti-gunners consider anything more than single shot cap and ball to be hi-cap.

In any event, my Glock 17 Gen 4 came standard with 3 x 17 round magazines, so 51 rounds of 9mm without extra mags or long ones. The long ones are mostly a pain anyway, since the one thing people tend to forget when they're writing stories is the sheer WEIGHT of all that ammo.

I have a combat vest with extra ammo pouches - so I can load out within a few seconds 3 mags for my Glock (plus one in it, for 68 rounds total) and 12 mags for my AR (with the plus one in it) - which is 390 rounds total in 5.56 mm. Vest on, GOTH backpack (3 days rations and water, medical kit, other minor yet basic supplies, including individual shelter), and I'm carrying 60 pounds REAL quick. There's a reason why I have a pull cart with all terrain tires available for the OTHER 3,000 rounds of ammo and additional supplies I have available at any one time.

I'm not a prepper, per se, I'm just a military vet ready for civil unrest and other emergencies that involve the breakdown of what we call civilized society. (That may also be why I have both a machete and a combat tomahawk, too.)

seanski1969 ๐Ÿšซ

Yes I agree and to you Ernest I apologize. I reread my post and while I agree with the facts I want to apologize for my tone. It's just a response and a "Hot Topic" for me. I appreciate police officers but sadly the difference between Officers and the public is dramatic. If only Police would publicly and loudly denounce the increased number of Police Shootings here and convict some Officers of murder it would make a difference. Too many times the Police just back each other and refuse that they are wrong. The Blue Line is too stubborn to admit their failures of recruitment and training and have forgotten the moto of "To Serve and Protect".

Surely you Ernest who as a resident of Australia can relate as I can remember one female Citizen of your fine country murdered here in the state of Minnesota after she herself called the police for help. Still no murder charges which I am aware of.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

Thanks, all.

So if the standard magazine is 10 rounds, is a 20-round high-capacity magazine twice as long? Wouldn't that make it cumbersome to use?

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Wouldn't that make it cumbersome to use?

depending on the weapon and how the extra weight affects the balance it may or may not be. Th weight will make it harder to handle and move about while the extra length on the magazine will make it almost impossible to hide with the magazine in it.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

So if the standard magazine is 10 rounds, is a 20-round high-capacity magazine twice as long?

Not necessarily. The standard magazine could be single stack while the weapon is capable of taking a double stack magazine.

A double stack magazine will give you around half again as many rounds in the same length of magazine.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

A double stack magazine will give you around half again as many rounds in the same length of magazine.

assuming the magazine is still the same width and fits into the gun. A lot will depend on the design of the specific make and model of the gun.

Replies:   Reluctant_Sir
Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

Just a note to say that magazines sold in places like the PRC and other communist states may be artificially limited to ten rounds but otherwise have all the same physical characteristics of the higher capacity mags sold elsewhere.

Look at this image to show you how a full capacity magazine can be plugged to reduce the round count:
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Capture-10-660x512.png

This diagram will help you better understand the single vs double stack capacity.
https://content.artofmanliness.com/uploads/2012/09/singlevsdouble-stack-400.jpg

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Reluctant_Sir

Just a note to say that magazines sold in places like the PRC and other communist states may be artificially limited to ten rounds but otherwise have all the same physical characteristics of the higher capacity mags sold elsewhere.

Some can, and some can't, that's why I said to check the make and model as to if it can. There are lots of guns where you can get double stack mags to fit, but there are also lots of gun where their design only allows for single stack mags.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

Thanks again. The diagram of the double stack really helped.

I may simply say he used high-capacity magazines with a semi-automatic pistol and leave it at that.

Replies:   imsly1
imsly1 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Still a opinion.. of high capacity...
just say he used a semi auto or a glock xx or beretta xx no need to say high capacity at all, a belt feed would be high capacity...

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@imsly1

no need to say high capacity at all

There is. He'll be doing a lot of shooting in a short period of time. I don't want a reader saying, "He would have run out of bullets by now," like I do when I watch an old Western with their six-shooters.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

"He would have run out of bullets by now," like I do when I watch an old Western with their six-shooters.

Watch some of those old westerns more carefully. The set crew reloaded all the weapons between takes/scenes and I would be willing to bet that it's fairly rare for any one character to fire more than 6 rounds from a pistol while on camera continuously.

The correct view to take is that every character with a gun is re-loading while off camera in the middle of a gun fight.

Unless it's important to the plot, it's not necessary to show them reloading as long as they have off-camera time.

With a modern magazine fed pistol, a practiced shooter can change magazines in seconds.

As long as you make it clear at the start that the character has extra magazines, it shouldn't be necessary to have every magazine change on set.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

The correct view to take is that every character with a gun is re-loading while off camera in the middle of a gun fight.

Except if you look at their gun belts, no bullets are missing.

Centaur ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

kinda hard to reload on a running horse, shotting backwords 20 times, reload between takes sure, believability, not a chance.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Centaur

kinda hard to reload on a running horse, shotting backwords 20 times

1. I bet you can't point to more than a handful of cases where something like that actually happened in a movie not meant as a comedy/spoof.

2. In real life, many cowboys and gunfighters carried two pistols. It wasn't for shooting one with each hand, very few people can shoot accurately with their off hand and actually aiming two pistols at the same time is impossible. No, the real point was empty one draw the second. That's 12 rounds without re-loading

3. Difficult, but I doubt it's impossible.

4. Not a lot of modern revolvers can do this, but with a lot of early revolvers, particularly pre-cartridge black powder revolvers, the cylinder was completely removable and extra cylinders were available. Professional shooters would carry multiple loaded cylinders and changing cylinders on these revolvers was only slightly more involved than changing magazines on a modern semi-auto.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/cylinder-swapping.754087/

Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

2. In real life, many cowboys and gunfighters carried two pistols. It wasn't for shooting one with each hand, very few people can shoot accurately with their off hand and actually aiming two pistols at the same time is impossible. No, the real point was empty one draw the second. That's 12 rounds without re-loading

Also known as 'The New York reload', though I don't doubt the concept existed before the phrase was coined. It is just how I learned it way back in when we dodged dinos as we walked to school.

In the snow.

Uphill.

Both ways.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

In real life, many cowboys and gunfighters carried two pistols.

In real life:

1. Few cowboys carried pistols at all, and if they had one it was usually a large revolver carried as a saddle-gun for quick defense while on horseback.

2. The few gunmen that were around carried two pistols, usually in a cross-draw configuration as that was faster to draw due to the length of the gun barrels then.

3. Most law enforcement carried a short-barreled shotgun for close work and a rifle on their horse for long work. Some even carried a saddle-gun when out on their horse.

4. Some wealthier people and gamblers carried pocket pistols which were short guns meant only for close range work.

Pistols were costly things and not good for hunting, so few people bought them, because few people could afford them. Rifles for hunting a self-defense were a necessity in many areas and were common.

Also, much of what you see in the movies is based on a small time period in the late 1800s. After the War Between the States pistols were a lot more common due to the number of them kept by people after the war.

edit to add: I forgot to mention reloading was a long task during the 1800s and took a few minutes, which is why those who did use a pistol on a daily basis (eg gunmen etc.) carried preloaded cylinders and did a cylinder swap as it took about a tenth of the time of reloading.

Replies:   Uther_Pendragon
Uther_Pendragon ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

1. Few cowboys carried pistols at all, and if they had one it was usually a large revolver carried as a saddle-gun for quick defense while on horseback.

Cowboys on trail drives worried more about stampedes than being attacked by people.
A revolver fired into the ground, or -- less often -- into the air, had a reasonable chance of turning a stampede. Both ground and air were also fair targets when riding a horse going fast; that's more than you can say for a person.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Uther_Pendragon

Cowboys on trail drives worried more about stampedes than being attacked by people.

As explain in Boone, the cowboys usually had older and large revolvers as saddle guns like the Colt Walker for defense against wildlife like cougars and snakes, people were well down on the list.

Uther_Pendragon ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Watch some of those old westerns more carefully. The set crew reloaded all the weapons between takes/scenes and I would be willing to bet that it's fairly rare for any one character to fire more than 6 rounds from a pistol while on camera continuously.

The correct view to take is that every character with a gun is re-loading while off camera in the middle of a gun fight.

Unless it's important to the plot, it's not necessary to show them reloading as long as they have off-camera time.

With a modern magazine fed pistol, a practiced shooter can change magazines in seconds.

Old Colt revolvers, the guy handling the gun had to load one cartridge, rotate the cylinder, and then load another cartridge, It looked damned fast to people who were used to muzzle loaders a few year before; it wasn't at all fast compared to the guys carrying lever-action rifles or carbines.

StarFleet Carl ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

He'll be doing a lot of shooting in a short period of time.

Just make a comment that he was glad he'd brought along half a dozen extra magazines for quick reloads, and you don't have to say anything at all about capacity.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@StarFleet Carl

Just make a comment that he was glad he'd brought along half a dozen extra magazines for quick reloads, and you don't have to say anything at all about capacity.

This is what I have so far about the extra magazines:

The boy scrambled to his feet and yanked his jeans up. The high-capacity magazines were heavy. One in each pocket was all he needed. It would be done quickly.

doctor_wing_nut ๐Ÿšซ

The caliber will matter when discussing capacity. A .40 cal round is wider than a 9 mil round, and a .45 cal is wider still. The width (diameter) determines capacity in a standard magazine. The same gun, same size, in different calibers will have less capacity in .40 cal when compared to a 9 mil, and still less in .45 cal.

Many Police departments switched to 9 mil handguns as standard issue because of their higher capacity, a trade-off over the better stopping power of higher calibers.

Banadin ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

In 1963 the British fired 5,000,000 rounds continuously through a Vickers heavy machine gun belt fed stopping only to change the barrel every ninety minutes. That is High Capacity.Took almost a week night and day with three man teams changing off. One guy did nothing but clear brass.

PotomacBob ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

"High Times" is a high-capacity magazine.

oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

AT a social function, a lady noted that a Texas Ranger was wearing a pistol.

"Sir," she asked. "Is that appropriate? Are you expecting trouble?"

The Ranger replied, "No ma'am. If I was expecting trouble I'd've brought my rifle."

(No back to the regular snippery)

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

A summer issue of Playboy with lots more pictures and two centerfolds is a high capacity magazine.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

What's it called when the last round is fired and the slide slides back to show the pistol is empty?

This is what I wrote when he loads the chamber:

"After snapping the magazine back in and flipping off the safety, the boy racked the slide."

What would I write when he fires the last round in that magazine?

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

What's it called when the last round is fired and the slide slides back to show the pistol is empty?

Most semi-automatic pistols lock open when the magazine and breech are empty due to having fired all of the rounds.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Ernest Bywater

So the pistol is "locked open" when the last round was fired.

Thanks.

What's the breech? What I call the chamber?

Also, with it in the locked open position, after he ejects the empty magazine and snaps in a full one, the slide is still locked open. Does he simply "rack the slide" to get the gun ready again or is it a two step process (one to unlock the slide and then to rack it)?

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

What's the breech? What I call the chamber?

some people call it a breech, and some call it a chamber. It's where the casing is ejected and the new round goes in.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

What's the breech? What I call the chamber?

The breech is the back end of the barrel.

The chamber is the part of the weapon that holds the cartridge ready to be fired.

For a weapon that uses a round with a straight casing all the same diameter the chamber is usually integral to the barrel and the breach and the chamber are the same.

Most semi-auto pistols fall into this category.

For most rifles that take rounds with tapered casings, the chamber is a separate piece and the breach is technically in front of the chamber.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

So from a locked slide position, how do you get the pistol ready to shoot again. Simply rack the slide?

Replies:   Reluctant_Sir
Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

When you fire your last round, the standard mechanism to lock the slide back is a small lever. If you look at most modern magazines, you will see a small flat spot that sits lower than the canted section that holds the round. See here:

http://www.hallowellco.com/magazine-follower-top---pistol-sm.jpg

That small part that is depressed on the leading edge impacts the slide stop and pushes it upward:

http://www.nelsoncustomguns.com/store/images/products/large_8_Slide_Stop_with_Pin.jpg

The slide stop usually attaches to the frame and interacts with a notch in the slide

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Dave_Williams_10-8_Slide_Stop.jpg

Now, the sequence of events is this: You fire the last round from the magazine. The magazine follower, no longer depressed into the body of the magazine by the rounds, rises enough to push upwards on the slide stop. The slide stop does just that, it stops the slide from moving back into battery (moving forward and stripping a new round from the magazine) and this lock back displays that you are out of rounds.

This also makes it easier to load a new magazine!

You can do two things at this point (after loading a new magazine) 1) You can depress the slide-stop and allow the recoil spring to move the slide forward so it loads a new round and is ready to fire. Some claim that this can be detrimental to the long life of the handgun because it causes wear on the slide stop notch on the slide.

The second method is to firmly grasp the rear of the slide, pulling the slide back all the way to fully compress the recoil spring, then release the slide so that you get the full power of that spring putting the slide back into battery.

The best method is a combination of the two.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Reluctant_Sir

1) You can depress the slide-stop and allow the recoil spring to move the slide forward so it loads a new round and is ready to fire.

This is what I see in a movie. Thanks for the info.

Replies:   oyster50
oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

In my misspent youth I used to instruct armor crewman trainees on the use of the M1911A1 pistol - also commonly know as the colt .45 Automatic.

The use of the slide stop to return the slide to battery was the official method in training.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@oyster50

The use of the slide stop to return the slide to battery was the official method in training.

I found this now that I know it's called a slide stop.

It's a Stop, Not a Release

Gunsite Academy teaches that once you've reloaded your handgun, you should point your thumb toward your chest and grasp the slide between your thumb and all four fingers. Then you should forcefully pull the slide to the rear and release. This will disengage the slide stop, and as the slide goes forward, it will chamber a cartridge from the new and fully loaded magazine you've just inserted. Instructors who advocate using the slide stop as a slide release argue that it's faster. It probably is. Others, like those at Gunsite, who teach releasing the slide by pulling it to the rear, suggest that pushing down on the slide stop with your thumb is a fine motor skill, and that fine motor skills can deteriorate when you're under stress. They can and do.

This person says to pull back on the slide. But he says it's faster to press the slide stop. So I'll probably write it that way.

tiggerider06 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

One comment to throw out. A lot of stories have a character loading a "clip" into a pistol or long gun. Only one rifle uses a "clip", the M1 Garand. All other weapons use a magazine.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@tiggerider06

Only one rifle uses a "clip", the M1 Garand. All other weapons use a magazine.

Wrong. Many other rifles and pistols used clips, some used a stripper clip and some used an en-bloc clip. The Steyr M95, a few Mannlicher rifles used clips, the Mosin-Nagant, Lee-Enfield, a number of Mauser rifles , and the SKS used clips to name a few, as well as a few pistols like the Mauser C96. Then there were the stripper clips used to reload some M16 magazines.

The confusion in the US between the use of a magazine and a clip is to do with the M1 Garand en-bloc clip because it looks a lot like a box magazine and it's the one most US gun users are familiar with. With the Garand en-bloc clip you load the clip into the rifle, with a magazine you load the magazine into the rifle, but with a stripper clip you only load the rounds into the rifle and the clip is removed prior to you start firing again.

robberhands ๐Ÿšซ

The Blaze:

Don't Call a 'Magazine' a 'Clip': We Spoke With an Ex-SEAL About the Difference and Why It's Important

TheBlaze spoke with Brandon Webb, the president of SOFREP media and a former Navy SEAL, about the difference between these two firearm components and why it's important to be clear with your terminology.

"It's common for people to get the two mixed up," Webb said. "If you hear someone talking about clips โ€ฆ you know they don't know the difference.

"No one uses clips anymore."

A clip describes cartridges held together with a strip until they are loaded into a firearm.

A magazine on the other hand is is a container that holds the cartridges. Sometimes magazines themselves are loaded with cartridges by clips. On most firearms a magazine is detachable and replaceable.

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