Home « Forum « Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

Has fiction died?

Switch Blayde

There's a show on ABC called "Quantico." ABC just apologized for an episode saying it was offensive to some people.

The plot sounded really good. It was about Indians committing a terrorist attack in Manhattan to blame the Pakistanis before an Indian/Pakistan summit was to occur. But one of the "terrorists" was wearing a religious Hindu thing which gave it away. To make it worse, the actress is Indian and was abused for taking part in something that puts Indians in a negative light.

If things keep going the way they are, fiction is going to be so boring.

Ross at Play
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

That plot would have been equally realistic if the terrorists were Pakistani and Muslin.
Would the public reactions and ABC's response have been different? I think so. Sigh!

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

The point isn't whether fiction is 'dead' because we're all too PC, rather it's 'is fiction dead because author's can't think of any plot more imaginative than Muslim terrorists attacking America', when in almost every RL situation, we're being attacked by our own people!

As long as author's think creatively, and don't jump on each newest trend, fiction will survive. Bad authors, though, a simply a hopeless cause.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

author's can't think of any plot more imaginative than Muslim terrorists attacking America'


That wasn't the plot at all. The plot was Indians trying to make it look like Pakistanis.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Ross at Play
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

But one of the "terrorists" was wearing a religious Hindu thing which gave it away.

I think the ABC network should apologise for yet another all-foreigners-are-morons plot.

More realistically, a group which looked like Muslims but one was "accidentally" spotted wearing a Hindu symbol would be Pakistanis who intentionally allowed the Hindu symbol to be spotted so Indians would be blamed. Or possibly, they were Indians pretending to Pakistanis pretending to be Indians, so Pakistanis would be blamed.

Which reminds me it's been a while since I watched The Princess Bride.

Replies:   Zom
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

That wasn't the plot at all. The plot was Indians trying to make it look like Pakistanis.

I understand. The original 'all Muslims are evil fanatics' is weak enough, but they weakened it even further with 'we'll present the exact same threat as we always do, but we'll make them all Indians instead so we'll be safe from claims of 'racial bias' instead.

You're starting with an exceptionally weak plot, then submitting it to a committee to see whether anyone has any specific complaints about it. That's how Corporations attempt to sell stories, but that's not how to create successful stories. It's part of the "This worked the past 327 times someone tried it, so let's change one single aspect and call it an entirely new story and film it!"

Capt. Zapp

@Crumbly Writer

"This worked the past 327 times someone tried it, so let's change one single aspect and call it an entirely new story and film it!"


Which is one reason I no longer watch television.

Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

You're starting with an exceptionally weak plot


I didn't see the show, but it doesn't sound like a weak plot to me.

The novel I'm formulating in my head starts with A. During the investigation, new things are discovered and at the end it's really B.

My guess in the show it wasn't bang-bang. There must have been an assumption and then discovery. Nothing weak or boring about that.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Switch Blayde

But my point is you can't write fiction any longer without offending someone. So everything will turn out bland. No deep plots. No edginess. No truth.

sunkuwan

@Switch Blayde

In your scenario, no-one would write real-life fiction.

But fiction-fiction is still cool. We do have Game of Thrones.

An Indian plot in the USA to discredit Pakistan would just be translated to a scifi or fantasy setting where Zindia plots in the PSA to discredit Schwakistan.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ross at Play

@Switch Blayde

But my point is you can't write fiction any longer without offending someone.

Careful, lest you're accused of being offensive towards morons. :-)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@sunkuwan


would just be translated to a scifi or fantasy


But you shouldn't have to. Think of the movie "Patriot Games." An offshoot of the IRA tries to assassinate someone from the royal family and the Harrison Ford character stops them and then is hunted by them. If that were to come out now, would the Irish be offended? Would I have to change it to a SciFi movie in a make believe setting?

Replies:   sunkuwan
sunkuwan

@Switch Blayde

We are currently in a cultural and political civil war.
The left and the right are constantly at each other's throat and try to do anything to "stick it to them" and even take stances and want to ban "xyz" that would get them booted out of "the club" 2 decades earlier.

The world is going Idiocracy.

PotomacBob

@Switch Blayde


Has fiction died?


Yes! That's why all the stories on SOL, Amazon and elsewhere are non-fiction these days. Of course, the stories (and news events) that claim to be real are actually fiction.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

I didn't see the show, but it doesn't sound like a weak plot to me.

The novel I'm formulating in my head starts with A. During the investigation, new things are discovered and at the end it's really B.

My guess in the show it wasn't bang-bang. There must have been an assumption and then discovery. Nothing weak or boring about that.

My objection wasn't with plot twists, but with a continued reliance on Muslim terrorists, which is reminiscent on how virtually every drama in the 50s and 60 centered around Russian spies. While it may play well with terrified viewers, it's hardly exemplary writing tackling new topics. It's instead recycling the same of trope clinches. That's what I'm bitching about, the utter lack of creativity. Changing the same recycled plot 'new' because you substitute Indians isn't enough to make it anything we haven't already seen hundreds of times.

The series itself, has at least tried to be topical, focusing on a Muslim-American FBI investigator framed for a terrorist attack on the FBI headquarters, but as the show continues, each season becomes weaker and more unbelievable than the last.

richardshagrin

I seem to remember a lot of fic shun about Nazis. Who were the James Bond villains? Gold-finger was a wealthy industrialist?

Replies:   Wheezer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

But my point is you can't write fiction any longer without offending someone. So everything will turn out bland. No deep plots. No edginess. No truth.

No, it isn't that everyone is so offended, it's that we're (i.e. Hollywood) is constantly recycling the exact same racist and sexist plots they've always shown, rather than promoting more imaginative fare.

That's not the death of fiction, that's the limits of tripe! For those of us capable of creating unusual plots, the skies the limit. We may trip on a multitude of other obvious pit holes, but at least we're not repeating what everyone else has already tried endless (with exceptions for zombie and romantic werewolves fighting romantic vampires for the hearts of beautiful maidens).

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

@PotomacBob

Yes! That's why all the stories on SOL, Amazon and elsewhere are non-fiction these days. Of course, the stories (and news events) that claim to be real are actually fiction.

I've got to admit, that few of my friends have ever read my work, not because they're uninterested in my writing, but because they 'don't bother' with fiction, preferring non-fiction whenever they read.

Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

No, it isn't that everyone is so offended


I disagree. I read an article about a girl who wanted a different prom dress than anyone else. She found a Chinese red dress that she wore to the prom. When she posted her prom photo on social media, she got attacked for wearing another culture's dress (she was white). Bullies came from everywhere to attack her saying they were offended and she insulted them by wearing the dress.

StarFleet Carl

@Switch Blayde

Bullies came from everywhere to attack her saying they were offended and she insulted them by wearing the dress.


Except from the Chinese, who thought it great that she was wearing the dress. They considered it cultural appreciation, not culture appropriation. Which is what the liberal assholes - aka main stream media - aka social justice warriors - in the U.S. were screaming.

No, I have no patience for these pathetic examples of creatures that are lower than whale shit. And no, I won't hold back and tell you how I really feel. (What's worse is that I haven't had anything to drink ... yet ... so this is really me sounding off about these pukes that need a good ass whoopin'.

Oh, and just as evidence to back up my comment regarding the Chinese NOT being offended ...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/05/04/chinese-ok-utah-teens-controversial-cheongsam-prom-dress/580062002/

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


I disagree. I read an article about a girl who wanted a different prom dress than anyone else. She found a Chinese red dress that she wore to the prom. When she posted her prom photo on social media, she got attacked for wearing another culture's dress (she was white). Bullies came from everywhere to attack her saying they were offended and she insulted them by wearing the dress.


I read that account too. The kicker is that the Chinese don't think of that particular dress as theirs. It's just 'another dress' and were entertained that some American high-school girl would want to wear it. It was only the Americans who were upset about it (and the many Chinese-Americans who don't know anything about their cultural heritage).

I wasn't saying that there aren't idiots in the world, just that I don't think that's the death of fiction. As long as you've got a decent story to tell, people will eat it up. If your story is weak, or worse, slow enough to be boring, then people are more likely to focus on the minor nits which upset them. (Says he who has a collection of 1-bombers, who continued reading his stories despite taking offense at something he wrote in a couple of early stories.)

Wheezer
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Gold-finger was a wealthy industrialist?


You can't portray the wealthy industrialists as evil nowadays. They own all the media and hold the highest offices in Government. oh, wait...

Switch Blayde

@StarFleet Carl

Except from the Chinese, who thought it great that she was wearing the dress.


Thanks for that link. It was great to read.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
awnlee jawking

@Ross at Play

Careful, lest you're accused of being offensive towards morons. :-)


But morons shout the loudest and therefore gain the most attention from government ;)

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

But morons shout the loudest and therefore gain the most attention from government

They're also the most likely to run for office, and campaign by shouting complete nonsense, without comprehending how things work or how to accomplish anything. What would that be, a morotocracy?

StarFleet Carl

@Switch Blayde

Thanks for that link. It was great to read.


A story that didn't make the news, but was fun to listen to at the poker table.

A couple of my regular poker buddies recently went to Los Angeles for a conference. One of them appears white, the other appears to have a slight tan. Dale told me that they decided to go to a restaurant and just to see what would happen - mostly because these guys are a little redneck, and are also old enough they don't give a shit - both of them wore their headbands, which have eagle feathers in them.

(For those of you who aren't from the U.S., possession of eagle feathers in the U.S. is restricted to members of Indians (feather, not dot), and is against the law otherwise.)

Law enforcement did end up having to get involved, mostly to get the woman screaming about being an animal killer and cultural appropriation and white privilege, away from Dale and Sam. The restaurant they'd gone to wasn't happy about serving them with the headbands on - Dale said you could tell the waiter and staff just didn't know what the hell to make of it, especially after the police left.

Oh, and even though they don't look it - Dale is a blonde Cherokee (seriously!) and Sam is Pottawatomie. Got to love Okie Indians.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels

@StarFleet Carl

There is so much real abuse and bigotry in the world, that's it's sad that people focus their (usually grossly misguided) attempts to achieve justice on fiction, dress, or word choices.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
PotomacBob

@StarFleet Carl

Which is what the liberal assholes - aka main stream media - aka social justice warriors - in the U.S. were screaming.


I did not see in the article you posted any criticism from the "liberal" media, or from anybody else either. I did see USA Today (I assume you consider it part of the "mainstream" media) which only used favorable quotes from people from China. What did the media you prefer say about it? Who, precisely, raised a stink about it in the first place?

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl

@PotomacBob

Who, precisely, raised a stink about it in the first place?


The criticism came from the 'enlightened' Social Justice Warriors in this country. Online social media.

http://abc13.com/society/teen-criticized-for-wearing-traditional-chinese-dress-to-prom/3418660/

https://www.complex.com/life/2018/04/white-teen-wearing-traditional-chinese-dress-to-prom-sparks-outrage

Replies:   PotomacBob
Zom

@Ross at Play

it's been a while since I watched The Princess Bride

Has anyone done a PC analysis of 'The Princess Bride' recently. I suspect it would not fare too well either.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking

@samuelmichaels

Still, they got the boiled egg removed from the 'salad' emoji ...

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
PotomacBob

@StarFleet Carl

Thanks for the links. I notice neither of the stories you provided identified any of the critics as "Social Justice Warriors." One was a Chinese-American and another was, maybe, a Korean-American. May I assume, then, that you made up the "Social Justice Warriors" label for them because you disagree with them? How do you know they weren't Muslims or Lithuanians or Libertarians?

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
Crumbly Writer

@Zom

Has anyone done a PC analysis of 'The Princess Bride' recently. I suspect it would not fare too well either.

We'll see when they remake it, which should be occurring soon.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Still, they got the boiled egg removed from the 'salad' emoji ...

Thank Goddess the eggplant emoji remains. I mean, how many people really enjoy eggplants that much? That's like having a kale-shake emoji.

Now if you add two boiled eggs to the eggplant emoji ...

StarFleet Carl

@PotomacBob

May I assume, then, that you made up the "Social Justice Warriors" label for them because you disagree with them? How do you know they weren't Muslims or Lithuanians or Libertarians?


You may assume all you wish. Doesn't make it so.

The nationality or the ethnicity or the religion of the people who were claiming to be offended at the 'cultural appropriation' doesn't actually matter. It's the minor detail that they screamed all over the Twitter-verse about something that didn't directly affect them, and that they had no direct knowledge of.

Sort of like the people who persist in the myth of 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' - you know, the ones who are being proven wrong on nearly a daily basis because those police body cams that they were screaming about due to excess police brutality are now showing exactly the opposite.

Crumbly Writer

@StarFleet Carl

Sort of like the people who persist in the myth of 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' - you know, the ones who are being proven wrong on nearly a daily basis because those police body cams that they were screaming about due to excess police brutality are now showing exactly the opposite.

Or, merely like 'them', you're just choosing to see what you want to see, as I seriously doubt that ALL the body cams prove the police wrong in every single case. It certainly wasn't the case in the majority that I saw. Sometimes a second body cam shows something the first didn't, but that's the exception, rather than the rule. Instead, what the other cameras show is doubt in fuzzy, blurry images which weren't even considered reliable at first. It's hardly conclusive proof of anything. But then, that's assumed when you assign a social designation without having any clue who actually made the statements you're objecting too.

PotomacBob

@StarFleet Carl

It's the minor detail that they screamed all over the Twitter-verse about something that didn't directly affect them, and that they had no direct knowledge of.


If stating an opinion were to equal "screaming all over," does your opinion about their opinion qualify as the same thing?

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl

@PotomacBob

I'm simply commenting about it here. Not trying to provoke tens or hundreds of thousands of people.

Back to Top