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Using an AI as proofreader and/or editor

helmut_meukel ๐Ÿšซ

Just for clarification:
Does using an AI as a proofreader count as AI-generated?
IMO it shouldn't, because some commercially sold proof reading programs may internally use an AI without it's told to the buyer/user.
AI as an editor may need the AI-generated tag, depending on the scope and amount of the editing.

BTW, just read Ka Hmnd's Deputy Morpheus again and stumbled over "newies" (opposite of oldies) where "newsies" was meant. First thought its a simple typo, but a search through all 21 chapters found nine occurrences.
My question: will an AI used as proofreader find this error at all? A human proofreader should have recognized at least
one occurrence and then hopefully searched for more.

HM.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@helmut_meukel

Does using an AI as a proofreader count as AI-generated?

No it doesn't.

We test the text and if it has more than 50% of the text categorized as 'AI Generated' then we label it AI Generated.

Proofreading using an AI doesn't change the text of the story, it merely finds the errors.

Polishing the text using an AI may lead to the text being labeled as AI Generated as polishing sometimes changes sentences and their structures to more AI-like style and depending on how extensive the changes are, the text may get labeled AI Generated.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

We test the text and if it has more than 50% of the text categorized as 'AI Generated' then we label it AI Generated.

A sort of philosophical musing.

I'd make a guess that SOL's AI detection is best at detecting AI-generated fiction.

I've read several lengthy wallpaper scenes in stories which I believe would require years of learning and specialist knowledge to write from scratch, in fields in which the authors are almost certainly not experts.

Is it possible the scenes are AI-generated but, because they're taken closely from what a minuscule number of human experts did write (including whole sentences found verbatim on various internet sites), AI-detection doesn't recognise them as AI-generated?

AJ

Replies:   fohjoffs  Michael Loucks
fohjoffs ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I've read several lengthy wallpaper scenes in stories which I believe would require years of learning and specialist knowledge to write from scratch, in fields in which the authors are almost certainly not experts.

I dunno, have STEM degrees, and have done a lot of weird shit. I could carry on, at length, about many subjects and not sound too stupid. I am not that unusual for my generation.

Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I've read several lengthy wallpaper scenes in stories which I believe would require years of learning and specialist knowledge to write from scratch, in fields in which the authors are almost certainly not experts.

Tech, medicine, finance, law, theology? ๐Ÿ˜Ž

solreader50 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

We test the text and if it has more than 50% of the text categorized as 'AI Generated' then we label it AI Generated.

I've recently discovered Jody Daniels and have been enjoying his stories immensely, for one thing they are not based in the UK or the USA. In one of the recent stories, Rosa Rio, a reader makes the accusation that the story was written with AI. Jody Daniels makes a vehement and believable denial. He makes the point that using an AI detector, it flagged one of his chapters as 67% probable for AI. (Refer to the comments at the end of Ch. 17, Rosa Rio)

I would make the point that it is not so much artificial intelligence but more artificial stupidity. And that this whole business of AI is a can of worms, a Pandora's Box. If an author uses AI to produce a story can they truly claim that they have written the work. Should it not be filed under that author name AI.

Sorry, but I'm pretty Luddite on this topic.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@solreader50

If an author uses AI to produce a story can they truly claim that they have written the work.

James Patterson uses a group of authors to write his novels. I believe he gives them an outline and then reviews what they wrote. When he started doing that, he didn't even list the author to give them credit.

So, substitute his hired author with AI. Give the AI an outline and review the final product. Kind of sounds like the same thing.

Replies:   palamedes  solreader50
palamedes ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

James Patterson uses a group of authors to write his novels. I believe he gives them an outline and then reviews what they wrote. When he started doing that, he didn't even list the author to give them credit.

Those are called ghostwritters and they might not get credit but they are paid for the job they do.

ghostwriter - "A ghostwriter is a person hired to write literary or journalistic works, speeches, or other texts that are credited to another person as the author."

solreader50 ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

It looks like you approve of Patterson's method. I think Tom Clancy did the same in the latter part of his career. It doesn't seem far removed from plagiarism so say this is MY book written by these other people. Well you can guess I disapprove.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@solreader50

It doesn't seem far removed from plagiarism so say this is MY book written by these other people

You may think it's sleazy, and maybe it is when it comes to published books, but it's perfectly legal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire

In copyright law, a work made for hire (work for hire or WFH) is a work whose copyright is initially owned by an entity other than the actual creator as a result of an employment relationship or, in some cases, a commission. It is an exception to the general rule that the person who actually creates a work is the legally-recognized author of that work.

In the United States, United Kingdom, and several other jurisdictions, if a work is created by an employee as part of their job duties, the employer is considered the legal author or first owner of copyright. In some countries, this is known as corporate authorship. The entity serving as an employer may be a corporation or other legal entity, an organization, or an individual.[1]

The work for hire doctrine originated in United States copyright law, but other countries have adopted similar legal principles. In the jurisprudence of the United Kingdom and India, the hiring party is referred to as the first owner of copyright.[2]

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@solreader50

It looks like you approve of Patterson's method.

I do not.

Duncan7 ๐Ÿšซ

@helmut_meukel

I use ProWritingAid, which includes AI to check lots of things. I manually edit any corrections. It's more than a grammar check.

Replies:   whisperclaw
whisperclaw ๐Ÿšซ

@Duncan7

How do you like Pro Writing Aid? Do you feel like it's worth the money? I have one friend who regretted getting it, but I'm looking for a larger sample size.

Replies:   Michael Loucks  Duncan7
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@whisperclaw

How do you like Pro Writing Aid? Do you feel like it's worth the money? I have one friend who regretted getting it, but I'm looking for a larger sample size.

I abandoned it due to the cost, and it didn't fit my writing style, switching to software from a Canadian startup, which seemed OK, but in the end, didn't do the job, and the company failed.

I'm using Grammarly, which works reasonably well, but their support is sh-te like all the OTHER support out there.

One other point on ProWritingAid โ€” they advertise a contest to win $50K if you submit 5000 words of your story, but then ask for a $20 'submission fee'. I get it's to avoid spam, but not a chance I'd enter that kind of lottery even with the prospect of a 2500x payoff.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Michael Loucks

ask for a $20 'submission fee'. I get it's to avoid spam

Not to avoid spam. It generates revenue.

When I used to read writing magazines, they had writing contests. Most contests had submission fees. And sometimes the winning prize wasn't even monetary. It was to be published in their magazine.

Duncan7 ๐Ÿšซ

@whisperclaw

I like it. It helps me polish my scenes without help from others. I aim for 100% on style, grammar, and spelling, plus over 90% on the rest. It takes work, but I feel better about the results.

Jody Daniel ๐Ÿšซ

@helmut_meukel

I find this topic to be really spot on and address the concerns of a lot of authors. I make use of two REAL people as editors, and both have been in the editing business for a few years.

My stories are set in South Africa. I use South African English that differ from USA or UK English. Mostly the way words are used and the spelling of certain words.

If you take into account that English is not my first language, (my home language is Afrikaans) then using editors that are based in the USA might pose a problem, but they understand the way I write and edit my stories in the SA English way.

The only way that I use AI is to generate image backgrounds for my illustrations in the text. The text however is my own work.

Solreader5o had commented on one of my stories and drawn my attention to this forum topic. For clarification I can just say that after one reader accused me of using AI generated text, I took one of my early stories and ran an AI Detector software on the text. It flagged 67% of the text as AI Generated, while the text was written years before AI even became a thing.

This only goes to show that AI detectors are just as flawed as AI Text Generators are.

To answer, or give my opinion on the question by helmut_Meukel about if using AI as a proof-reader: No. Using AI for elementary tasks such as proof reading is not AI text generation, as long as you double check the text yourself afterwards.

AI Generated text is produced from a prompt given to AI. For example: "Write me a passage of 700 words about the driving of a car on the N1 highway from Huston to Aruban in Texas." And then copy and paste that text directly into your story. This is not your work. This is AI and could be flawed as AI cannot incorporate human emotion.

Happy writing!

Pete Fox ๐Ÿšซ

@helmut_meukel

So this is directed at authors with large long over time stories. Use of AI like Grok to analize large text stories.

I just dumped my 255K+ word Home Nudity into project on (paid) Grok and asked it to create character interaction charts. The whole process for the first batch of charts took me under 5 min.

Why is this important? Over time I know I loose track of people and who they are with or what they have done. Having a spider chart showing it is a fun visualization tool.

So if you are one of those writers with a big data set. Give it a try. Questions shoot me a DM.

Replies:   Duncan7  TheDarkKnight
Duncan7 ๐Ÿšซ

@Pete Fox

What form are the character interaction charts?
Are they visual or text?

Or perhaps you can share a sample?
Thanks

TheDarkKnight ๐Ÿšซ

@Pete Fox

Ok, I'll bite. What's a spider chart? I keep a spreadsheet of characters, but I'm assuming there's more to it than that.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@TheDarkKnight

Is it like this, for the "Count of Monte Cristo"? (link is to Wikimedia Commons).

~ JBB

Replies:   TheDarkKnight
TheDarkKnight ๐Ÿšซ

@Bondi Beach

That makes my brain hurt.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach ๐Ÿšซ

@TheDarkKnight

That makes my brain hurt.

Mine, too, although the bigger your screen the cooler it is.

It's also probably the reason why no movie has ever come close to telling the story well, even if you cut out all the side- and back-stories.

~ JBB

Pete Fox ๐Ÿšซ

@helmut_meukel

Yes the first time I saw one it hurt my head. A great tool to see various characters reactionships and interactions over time. Especially a big cast.

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