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Trials at the U.S. Supreme Court?

PotomacBob ๐Ÿšซ

For use in a WIP,
As I read the U.S. Constitution on the powers of the Supreme Court, it is, in general, a court that hears appeals from lower courts. But in some instances, the Supreme Court has "original jurisdicton," which I think means it's where the case is tried for the first time. One of those instances listed is "controversies between two or more states."
If the Supreme Court has held an actual trial of a controversy between states during my lifetime, I don't recall it. My search skills are insufficient to know what search terms I should use to find a record of such a trial.
Anybody here know of an actual instance of such a trial, or, if not, search terms that would help me find one or more?

George-1 ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

https://www.supremecourt.gov/casedocuments/original_jurisdiction_cases.aspx

DBActive ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

There aren't (in recent history) actual trials. A court appointed master collects the evidence and reports to the court. Then, after argument, the Court renders its verdict.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

Assuming they even agree to hear it. Sadly, they have been derelict in their duties. As they have original jurisdiction, they do not have discretion to say, in effect, "nah, we don't wanna" which they have many times recently.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Michael Loucks

Assuming they even agree to hear it. Sadly, they have been derelict in their duties. As they have original jurisdiction, they do not have discretion to say, in effect, "nah, we don't wanna" which they have many times recently.

The problem there is not strictly with SCOTUS. The US Congress gave the lower courts concurrent jurisdiction to much of what falls under the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction. This gives them room to refuse cases on their original jurisdiction because the lower courts can hear those cases.

I agree with you, the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction should not be discretionary.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

The problem there is not strictly with SCOTUS. The US Congress gave the lower courts concurrent jurisdiction to much of what falls under the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction. This gives them room to refuse cases on their original jurisdiction because the lower courts can hear those cases.

The Congress cannot amend the Constitution or change its operation by statute. Of course, SCOTUS isn't going to add to its workload, so, conveniently, this has not been addressed.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Michael Loucks

The Congress cannot amend the Constitution or change its operation by statute.

True, but the Constitution explicitly gives Congress the power to set the boundaries of the jurisdiction of the lower federal courts.

Congress can't limit the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction (without resorting to a constitutional amendment), but they can and have given the lower courts jurisdiction parallel to the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction. This gives the Supreme Court a decent excuse for refusing to hear cases brought to them under their original jurisdiction.

There are very few (if any) cases that could be brought under the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction that the federal district courts wouldn't have the jurisdiction to hear.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

There are very few (if any) cases that could be brought under the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction that the federal district courts wouldn't have the jurisdiction to hear.

I maintain Congress cannot change this. If SCOTUS has original jurisdiction, they have it, and no other court can have it. This kind of end-run around the Constittuion is basically the entire current problem in US politics.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Michael Loucks

If SCOTUS has original jurisdiction, they have it, and no other court can have it.

https://www.fjc.gov/history/work-courts/jurisdiction-original-supreme-court

This is only half right.

The Supreme Court did not settle the question until the 1888 decision in Ames v. Kansas , in which the Court ruled that parties embraced by the Supreme Court's original jurisdiction could bring suit in any court with jurisdiction over the parties or subject matter.

This kind of end-run around the Constittuion is basically the entire current problem in US politics.

This is not an end-run. It also has very little to do with current US politics.

There is explicit Supreme Court precedent supporting concurrent jurisdiction that predates WWI.

Note: I agree with you that this concurrent jurisdiction is a problem and Supreme Court original jurisdiction cases ought not be discretionary. However establishing these things would require a constitutional amendment because you are not going to get SCOTUS to willingly reverse Ames v. Kansas.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

There is explicit Supreme Court precedent supporting concurrent jurisdiction that predates WWI.

SCOTUS has been wrong many times before. Ones on which all sides can agree include Dred Scott and Korematsu.

They are wrong on concurrent jurisdiction. This could be fixed by Congress expressly revoking concurrent jurisdiction. Congress has, after all, the express power to determine jurisdiction.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Michael Loucks

SCOTUS has been wrong many times before.

There are only two ways to over-ride bad Supreme Court precedent.

1. The Supreme Court reverses itself.
2. A constitutional amendment.

You are not going to get the Supreme Court to reverse on concurrent jurisdiction. That leaves only a constitutional amendment.

This could be fixed by Congress expressly revoking concurrent jurisdiction.

This is theoretically correct. The probability that Congress would actually do that is approximately zero.

Replies:   Michael Loucks  DBActive
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

This is theoretically correct. The probability that Congress would actually do that is approximately zero.

I did not say it would happen; I was simply pointing out that it could (and should) happen.

Sadly, the most common trait in DC and State capitals is fecklessness.

DBActive ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Congress can't overrule the Supreme Court decision on Constitutional issues, but it has the complete right to limit the jurisdiction of the inferior courts. It could simply say that none of the inferior courts have jurisdiction over cases which could fall in the original jurisdiction of the the Court.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@DBActive

It could simply say that none of the inferior courts have jurisdiction over cases which could fall in the original jurisdiction of the the Court.

It could, but it has explicitly said the opposite, and that is unlikely to change any time soon.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@PotomacBob

Getting back to the OP, the Supreme Court actually had one criminal trial. Only once. In the early 1900s. They tried a sheriff and 5 others for allowing the lynching of a black man in Tennessee.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Shipp#:~:text=It%20remains%20the%20only%20Supreme%20Court%20criminal%20trial%20in%20history.&text=Full%20case%20name-,United%20States%20v.,Shipp%2C%20et%20al.

ystokes ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

Judge Amy Comey-Barret is coming out with a book where she defends lying to Congress where she told them that Roe v. Wade was the law of the land and then threw it out.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks ๐Ÿšซ

@ystokes

Technically, it was the law of the land at that point.

Such a statement says nothing about whether it will remain the law of the land.

Not defending her, but by speaking precisely, you can obfuscate your intentions while telling the truth.

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