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Grok xAI

Switch Blayde 🚫

I haven't heard anyone mention xAI (Grok) when we talk about AI. I asked xAI a question for the first time and am impressed with the response. I first asked how to format a "Three Days Earlier" at the start of a chapter and got a good answer. Then I asked:

"The reason I was thinking of doing that is because the main character doesn't appear until Chapter 7. That seems odd to me. So if I begin the novel with Chapter 7 (as Chapter 1) and then the next chapter is what's currently the first chapter with a "three days earlier" under it, would that work? Do I need to worry about the way it currently is?"

I had a thread here on not introducing the main character until Chapter 7 a long time ago. People thought it was too late to introduce the main character (especially since it's in my Lincoln Steele series). The following is xAI's answer to my second question:

Starting your novel with what is currently Chapter 7 (where the main character first appears) and then moving to the current Chapter 1 with a "Three Days Earlier" notation is a viable approach, and it could work well depending on your story's structure and goals. Let's break it down:

Would Starting with Chapter 7 (as Chapter 1) Work?

Yes, this can work, and it's a technique called in medias res (starting in the middle of the action). By beginning with the main character's introduction in what's now Chapter 7, you immediately hook the reader with their perspective and stakes, which can be more engaging than delaying their appearance. Then, using Chapter 2 (your current Chapter 1) with a "Three Days Earlier" marker, you can backtrack to provide context, world-building, or events leading up to the main character's entrance. This approach is common in novels and films to create intrigue and momentum. For example:

- Chapter One: The main character's dramatic introduction (current Chapter 7).
- Chapter Two: Three Days Earlier: The original opening, setting up the context or events that lead to Chapter One.

This structure can heighten suspense, as readers will want to know how the earlier events connect to the main character's situation. It works especially well if Chapter 7 has a compelling hook—action, mystery, or an emotional pull—while the original Chapter 1 provides necessary background without needing the main character present.

Do You Need to Worry About the Current Structure?

Delaying the main character's appearance until Chapter 7, as your novel is currently structured, isn't inherently problematic, but it carries risks:

1. Reader Engagement: If the first six chapters focus on secondary characters or setup without introducing the main character, readers may struggle to connect with the story. Most readers expect to meet the protagonist early to anchor their emotional investment.

2. Pacing: Six chapters of buildup might feel slow, especially in genre fiction (e.g., thriller, fantasy, or sci-fi), where readers often expect quicker access to the central figure.

3. Genre Expectations: In literary fiction, a delayed protagonist introduction might work if the early chapters are richly atmospheric or character-driven. In commercial fiction, however, readers typically want the main character sooner.

If the early chapters are gripping, introduce compelling secondary characters, or establish a strong narrative voice, you might not need to change the structure. For example, A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin delays some main characters' introductions by using multiple perspectives, but each chapter is engaging enough to sustain interest. If your early chapters feel like a slog or lack a clear connection to the main character, restructuring could be beneficial.

Considerations for Your Proposed Change

- Clarity: The "Three Days Earlier" marker is clear and effective, as discussed previously. Ensure the transition between the new Chapter 1 (current Chapter 7) and Chapter 2 (current Chapter 1) is smooth. You might need a brief sentence in Chapter 2 to ground readers in the new timeline, e.g., "Three days before [main character's key action from Chapter 1], the city was already stirring…"

- Narrative Flow: Make sure the shift from the new Chapter 1 to the flashback in Chapter 2 feels purposeful. The earlier events should clearly tie into the main character's story, so readers aren't left wondering why the timeline jumped.

- Foreshadowing: If possible, sprinkle subtle hints in the new Chapter 2 (current Chapter 1) that connect to the main character's situation in Chapter 1. This creates a sense of cohesion and keeps readers curious.

- Rest of the Structure: If you reorder the chapters, consider how the remaining chapters (current Chapters 2–6 and beyond) fit. Will you continue in chronological order after Chapter 2, or will there be more time jumps? Ensure the timeline remains clear to avoid confusion.

Should You Change It?

You don't need to change the current structure if the early chapters are engaging and purposeful. However, if you're concerned about the delayed introduction of the main character (as it seems you are), starting with their appearance in Chapter 7 and using a flashback for context is a strong alternative. It could make the story more immediate and reader-friendly, especially if the original Chapter 1 is more expository or setup-heavy.

To decide, ask yourself:

- Are the first six chapters compelling enough to hold readers without the main character? (Test this with beta readers if possible.)

- Does starting with Chapter 7 create a stronger hook? (Compare the opening paragraphs of both chapters.)

- Can the events of the current Chapter 1 be effectively conveyed as a flashback without losing impact?

If you're unsure, you could try writing the new opening (Chapter 7 as Chapter 1, followed by Chapter 1 as a flashback) and see how it feels. You might also share both versions with trusted readers to gauge which grabs them more.

Final Recommendation

Your proposed structure—starting with the main character's introduction and then jumping to "Three Days Earlier"—is a solid strategy to address your concern about the delayed protagonist. Use a clear marker like Chapter Two: Three Days Earlier to signal the shift. You don't have to worry about the current structure if the early chapters are strong, but the new approach is likely safer for reader engagement, especially if you're writing for a broad audience. If you want to stick with the original structure, consider tightening the early chapters to ensure they're gripping and hint at the main character's relevance to sustain interest until Chapter 7.

Anyway, I thought the response was right on, clear, and informative. And it didn't tell me how to do it. It gave suggestions for me to consider.

Replies:   awnlee jawking  jimq2  moretea
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

- Foreshadowing: If possible, sprinkle subtle hints in the new Chapter 2 (current Chapter 1) that connect to the main character's situation in Chapter 1.

Huh? The readers already know Lincoln Steele is going to appear. Any more foreshadowing treats the readers as idiots.

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Huh? The readers already know Lincoln Steele is going to appear. Any more foreshadowing treats the readers as idiots.

There wouldn't be foreshadowing. Grok doesn't know the plot or the characters. I asked a general question and it provided me different scenarios and how to handle them.

In the current draft, what happens in chapters 1–6 is the reason Steele is called in Chapter 7. Grok didn't know that.

Grok even assumed the first 6 chapters weren't compelling, but rather world building or such. It's an action thriller so the first 6 chapters are compelling (I sure hope so LOL), but Grok didn't know that.

I don't know if it will work. I haven't touched the draft in years, completing several other novels in the time. But I thought Grok's reply was good enough to bring up here since no one ever mentions Grok.

Replies:   julka
julka 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But I thought Grok's reply was good enough to bring up here since no one ever mentions Grok.

I would not describe any of the mainstream LLMs as trustworthy, on account of they have no concept of truth, and the answer you got from it here is fairly blah - it's a magic 8 ball that told you about in media res.

But Grok is the one which spent about a day shoehorning increasingly-awkward references to white genocide in South Africa into literally every answer it gave and recently went full hardcore Nazi - not in the hyperbolic sense, but in the "Adolf Hitler would be well equipped to handle the problems related to flooding in Texas, which were caused by Jews" sense.

Use whatever LLM you like, but a magic 8 ball is going to give you advice that's just as good and as a bonus, it'll be significantly less likely to give you irrelevant answers from the perspective of a White Nationalist whenever Musk decides to tweak the prompt and call it "improved".

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@julka

the answer you got from it here is fairly blah

I disagree. It was more than blah. It gave me things to think about to make the right decision — for me. And it was thorough. Since I have knowledge of the subject, I know what it said made sense. It didn't make things up.

That is why I shared it. Grok isn't known for creativity like ChatGPT is, but I asked ChatGPT the same question and wasn't as pleased with its answer.

julka 🚫

@Switch Blayde

It gave me things to think about to make the right decision — for me.

Have more confidence in yourself! I don't think Grok told you to think about anything that you didn't already know - "does this change help the story flow better" and "are the early chapters engaging even without the main character" are not deeply insightful questions that only a trained expert could have posed. I think that they're questions you knew you had to think about, and having Grok write them out brought some structure to your thought process.

awnlee_jawking 🚫

@julka

Have more confidence in yourself!

I agree. I think SB is better at writing than Grok.

AJ

Switch Blayde 🚫

@julka

I don't think Grok told you to think about anything that you didn't already know

I thought "By beginning with the main character's introduction in what's now Chapter 7, you immediately hook the reader with their perspective and stakes, which can be more engaging than delaying their appearance" was insightful. I hope the first 6 chapters keep the reader on the edge of their seat, but I never considered "hook the reader with their perspective and stakes, which can be more engaging than delaying their appearance." I'm hooking the reader on the crime, not the main character's involvement. So now I have to think about which is more engaging to the reader. But because of Grok, I know what alternatives are there and their benefits and risks.

A lot of my concerns about introducing the MC so late was because of the feedback I got on this forum. The consensus was that I needed to introduce the main character earlier. Grok says I don't have to. No one on this forum said that. In Grok's examples, it assumed the beginning is world building or some other slogging. That's not the case. And Grok said if the beginning was engaging, it was okay. But it provided the risks of the delayed introduction. Those mirrored the feedback I got here. But Grok also explained how it could work. I appreciated that Grok didn't come across as all-knowing and told me how to do it.

I thought the Grok feedback was insightful and well organized. Which is why I mentioned Grok here. It's the first time I used it and was impressed. I thought others might benefit from my experience.

I'm not recommending one AI over the other. I use Meta AI for book cover images. But I use both ChatGPT and Meta AI for asking questions. Not to write for me or to critique my writing. I tried both for that and they both sucked. I write better than them. But now I have another AI to use where it fits.

Replies:   awnlee jawking  julka
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But because of Grok, I know what alternatives are there and their benefits and risks.

There are plenty of other options besides the ones that Grok echoed back to to you.

For example, the first six chapters could be split-screen, detailing how Lincoln Steele's current caseload is running down just as you are setting up his next case.

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

For example, the first six chapters could be split-screen, detailing how Lincoln Steele's current caseload is running down just as you are setting up his next case.

The first 6 chapters is the kidnapping of the president's daughter and how the FBI and Secret Service are getting nowhere. In Chapter 7, Steele shows up doing R&R at Ft. Belvoir after what happened in the last novel in the series where he runs into a woman he knows and they have sex. That's interrupted by a call asking him to come to the White House to help.

So I can begin the novel with Steele hooking up with the woman and getting the call. Then Chapter 2 could be "Three days earlier" which is the kidnapping and getting nowhere, ending with them calling Steele.

Chronologically, the way it is now works. But the reader reading a Lincoln Steele novel may keep asking, "I thought this was a Steele novel. Where is he?"

The kidnapping and what happens until they call Steele is engaging. The only question is, can I wait 7 chapters to bring Steele into the story? The people here said no. Grok said it could work, but gave me the risks.

julka 🚫

@Switch Blayde

A lot of my concerns about introducing the MC so late was because of the feedback I got on this forum. The consensus was that I needed to introduce the main character earlier.

It's not a terrible or weird idea at all as long as you don't go completely screwball with it.

While not super common, this isn't that unusual in certain genres, especially high-concept science fiction and fantasy.

This is also fairly common in mysteries and police procedurals where the book starts with the crime and the suspects before bringing in the detective.

It's not that unusual in fantasy to introduce a character late in the first book, or even a later book, and yet have them be instrumental to the plot of the series overall.

Generally speaking, as a reader I'd likely get irritated, but there are always exceptions.

I find long passages without MC to ultimately unsatisfying; but several successful authors made use of such approach.

Weird as in unusual? Yup.
Weird as in off-putting? Nope. Especially not in a series that features that character. In fact, in that context, it might just be interesting and engaging

I can totally see it depending on the story.

I don't think I've ever read a book or story like that.

In as much as there's a consensus to the answers from your original thread, I think it would be more fairly characterized as "some people may not like it, but it can certainly be done"

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

It was more than blah.

To me, it feels like Grok told you what you wanted to hear. Still, it was an interesting exercise.

AJ

Marc Nobbs 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I disagree. It was more than blah. It gave me things to think about to make the right decision — for me.

This is key for me. The LLMs are tools. Are they perfect? No. And if expect them to be, you'll be disappointed. They are, in a very real sense, nothing more than "next word predictors" on an unprecedentedly massive scale. So using them as "truth" or "trusting" them is foolish.

However, using them to make you think and reevaluate your own work with the goal of making improvements to it and get better at your own craft, is worthwhile.

jimq2 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I remember a while back, reading about a college student's dissertation being rejected for plagiarism. Turns out he used about 1/2 of a page provided by an AI. It was a direct quote of his professor's dissertation from 5 years earlier, complete with several misspellings.

moretea 🚫

@Switch Blayde

There was a trend in absurdism plays where the main character appeared later and later in the performance. With the award going to Samuel Beckett with his play "Waiting for Godot" where the main character never shows at all.

In other words, your approach has been used before with great success, Beckett even received the Nobel Price in literature.

Don't concern yourself too much with what others think, write your story the way you think it should be written and the way you are most happy with. With that said, do experiment and explore different ways of writing, you can't grow in your craft unless you push the boundaries.

Also, standard disclaimer here, I'm not an author of fiction, most things I write are offers, contracts and such, which is a totally different type of writing.

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