Forum: Author Hangout

the scoring system (that you guys don't like

There's no scoring system that everyone will like. I think you have the best one I've seen.

I think it would be better to have the same scoring system on all three sites, it makes it easier for everyone, while providing you with a uniform code.

There's no scoring system that everyone will like. I think you have the best one I've seen.

I think it would be better to have the same scoring system on all three sites, it makes it easier for everyone, while providing you with a uniform code.

Aside from my previously stated objections to the 10-point systems because of how it weighs more heavily against minority stories, I agree with Ernest. It's better for everyone if the scoring is similar and the scores are nearly the same (except for different tastes between the different sites).

It sounds more likely that the 5-point system reflects lower scores (since the difference between 6 and 7 are essentially lost) than younger readers dislike stories (though I could be wrong about that). I also suspect that words are better than stars too.

Update: I was thinking of the old FS scoring. Since they're both 10-point, the scoring difference is likely due to the stars vs. words, though I can see sci-fi stories doing better on sci-fi. But one story ranging from 6 to 9 between the different sites seems a little extreme.

The again, expecting Sci-Fi stories to do well on a Sci-Fi site, presumably as opposed to non Sci-Fi stories on a Sci-Fi site, well, no shit Sherlock..!! Why would you post a non Sci-Fi story to a Sci-Fi story site anyway?

No, I was suggesting that the more general FS site might not appreciate sci-fi stories as much, or at least prefer a different type of sci-fi story. As such, I'd expect sci-fi stories to score higher on a sci-fi site than elsewhere, but I'm still unsure why FS scores them so much lower, since it seems more systematic than individual choices.

I'd expect sci-fi stories to score higher on a sci-fi site

I'm not sure that's true. On a site for general fiction, a sci-fi story will compete mainly on quality of storytelling and writing. On a sci-fi site, the audience should be more discerning about the genre-specific attributes.

As such, the different readership will be assessing the stories on different qualities so what pleases one audience might not please the other. The consequence may differ depending on the story.

AJ

I'm not sure that's true. On a site for general fiction, a sci-fi story will compete mainly on quality of storytelling and writing. On a sci-fi site, the audience should be more discerning about the genre-specific attributes.

Theoretically, but given that I write mostly sci-fi, and my stories score much better on sci-fi.org, I can only assume it's because it's a more natural fit than my stories on either SOL or especially on FS, where my scores a more than 2 full points lower.

We can talk all day about what might happen, but given the evidence I see from my stories, my interpretation makes more sense than that sci-fi readers would be more critical.

I would love to have someone detail the 'proper' way to score a story,

So, you believe someone with no or little experience in a field knows all their is to tell about it? You believe limited knowledge on proper grammar, spelling, sentence structure, plot development means people can properly assess and score a written material?

With age and experience comes the ability to better judge, value, and compare things, especially things like stories. The average 10 year old doesn't have the same ability to follow and enjoy a complex story the average 10 year old has. Thus a complex story a 20 year old can follow, enjoy, and score well is very likely to be scored down by a much younger person who can't follow it well and gets lost in the complexity of the story.

how much the reader liked the story.

The only mythical aspect here is your assumption that every 10 year old can understand all aspects of a story that uses words, phrases, or concepts they don't understand. Naturally they will score such a story down due to not enjoying it because they don't understand it.

The other mythical aspect you apply is every 10 year old has the judgement to correctly evaluate the story in a valid way on a scale of 1 to 10. Many young readers simply score on a scale of 1 to 3 - don't like, not sure, and I like. It takes experience to discern the wider values and finer points of 'I like it' to 'It's a superior story.'

If you can't understand and assess properly, you can't score properly.

Being aware of the realities of life doesn't make a person an elitist.

BTW: When I was 10 years old I was reading books at home that were well in advance of what the other kids were reading , and most couldn't even understand the summaries in the covers, partly because they didn't have the vocabulary, and partly due to lack of experience reading the more complex stories. I was ahead of the curve because my mother was blind and had talking books. So, from a very young age I was listening to quality fiction and had a good vocabulary before I started at school. I know, from experience, most young readers can't adequately evaluate and rate reading that is beyond what they're used to.

NOTE: I always say most not all.

how on earth do you explain '50 shades'……

like a lot on the top seller lists of late - great marketing hype. I've yet to find anyone who likes the books in the top seller lists of the last decade or so. I do know many get sales simply because of the fact of the location of the vendors - people want to buy a book at the last moment at the airport, check the what they have - damn little, and thus they end up buying crap because it's marginally better than the few others there.

Oh, and still no sign of an explanation of the 'proper' way to score a story.

Tyu going back and reading what was said, as it's clear you need to learn a proper way of reading.

My first post in this thread said, bold added for emphasis:

You are looking at three different readerships that have some mutual sub-set overlaps. One thing to remember is that FS is the only one that allows readers under 18, and most of them won't have developed a good enough sense of story scoring.

notice - good enough - states poor quality

Next response of mine to your attack:

So, you believe someone with no or little experience in a field knows all their is to tell about it? You believe limited knowledge on proper grammar, spelling, sentence structure, plot development means people can properly assess and score a written material?

With age and experience comes the ability to better judge, value, and compare things, especially things like stories. The average 10 year old doesn't have the same ability to follow and enjoy a complex story the average 10 year old has. Thus a complex story a 20 year old can follow, enjoy, and score well is very likely to be scored down by a much younger person who can't follow it well and gets lost in the complexity of the story.

I speak of the ability to assess and evaluate, and how it improves with age. If it improves with age, then the unimproved are obviously not doing it well. Not do it well, means it's not a proper assessment.

I point out the reason why younger readers are likely to give a lower score due to the lower experience meaning they don't enjoy the story, regardless of how good a story it is. Yet you ignore all that and think it's OK to down score a story because you don't enjoy it due to not having the knowledge or skill to understand it or assess it.

It's a recognition of the facts of life, not an elitist view.

However, since every time you lose a point you move the goal posts and try to expand it further, go right ahead and expand it again.

The thread started as a call for understanding why the scores vary - I explained that. The FS site has younger readers who are less experienced at assessing scores, and in some cases down vote because they don't understand the story and thus don't like it. I've explained why it happens and the cause, but feel free to go right ahead keep moving the discussion off to something where you think you can score points.

I've already explained it twice, I suggest you go back and re-read what's been said.

how on earth do you explain '50 shades'

It's a popular pastime for 'experts' to bash 50 Shades, but I think a large part of that is professional jealousy. When it comes to providing specific examples of how authors have written badly, there are plenty from eg J K Rowling and George R R Martin, but most of the complaints about 50 Shades seem to hang on how cliched it is.

AJ

There are competitions where in addition to the judges awards there is also a 'peoples choice' award. Have you ever noticed how rare it is that the judges and peoples awards go to the same person/team..?? Which award is more "real world" ..??

In professional sports, the fans choose who will play in the All-Star game. Then the coaches pick the second level (or something like that). The fans pick on popularity (and in many cases larger markets have more fans so they get more votes). I think the coaches (the experts) choose better.

I think I'm with @joyR on this one. The winners of the Booker Prize are pretty much unreadably dull.

Various attempts have been made to instigate a rival award with the aim of it being awarded to books the public actually like to read, but I don't believe any of the contenders have achieved significant international recognition. :(

AJ

Naturally they will score such a story down due to not enjoying it because they don't understand it.

Even more than vocabulary, is reading comprehension. Show don't tell is a good example. Children's books are all telling because a young child doesn't have the reading comprehension to get what the author is showing. They need to be told.