Forum: Author Hangout

Assorted Religious Questions (not controversial, I hope)

awnlee jawking 🚫

1) Muslims or Moslems? is there a preference for one over the other.

2) I'm familiar with the cliche of BMD Christians (Birth, Marriage and Death). I believe a recent SOL story mentioned the cliche of Christians who visit church three times a year. I guess two would be Christmas and Easter. What is the third occasion?

3) Do Muslims/Moslems also have believers who who visit a Mosque a handful of times a year? What are those occasions?

This information is needed for a story that might actually get to SOL (for a change).

AJ

Replies: Michael Loucks Reluctant_Sir AmigaClone Dicrostonyx awnlee jawking Paladin_HGWT kinkbugz William Turney Morris William Turney Morris

Michael Loucks 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Muslims or Moslems?

The preferred form in US English is 'Muslim'.

I believe a recent SOL story mentioned the cliche of Christians who visit church three times a year. I guess two would be Christmas and Easter. What is the third occasion?

In my experience, it's 'Chreester' — Christmas and Easter. I don't know that I've ever encountered a 'three times a year' Christian (though I suspect there are some).

Do Muslims/Moslems also have believers who who visit a Mosque a handful of times a year? What are those occasions?

Every faith has lapsed members or ones who attend services only occasionally. The setting of the story would be important, because relegious adherence depends very much on society (e.g. US is different from Indonesia which is different from Saudi Arabia which is different from Iran).

Reluctant_Sir 🚫

@awnlee jawking

For Christians, I am more familiar with three times during their lives, not three times a year...

Baptism, Marriage and Burial.

Replies: LupusDei awnlee jawking

LupusDei 🚫

@Reluctant_Sir

For Christians, I am more familiar with three times during their lives, not three times a year...

Baptism, Marriage and Burial.

Was going to say the same. In my limited experience those who do attend any services more frequently than just for those occasions, own or extended family related, do attend them more frequently than three times a year, but on more weekly-ish or perhaps monthly basis.

I knew of a couple guys who tactically converted to Islam while in Mujahedeen captivity during Soviet invasion in Afghanistan, just to abandon and "wash off" the forced faith upon returning home.

That we do have a national cultural ritual for washing off forced faiths says something about our history here. Since Latvian-ism is a quasi-religious practice in own right, large majority (but not all, there's a small
percentage of cultists and zealots) of our nominal Christians are actually dual faiths holding (a practice that is allowed by the national tradition, regardless of the prescriptions of the public "Sunday" faith), but more often purely performative on both.

Hence, Latvian Muslim is an oxymoron by definition, since practicing Muslim is a cult according to my definitions, and very incompatible with the national tradition, but I have read that we have a group attempting that, somehow. Then, I know a girl who went in Hare Krishna temple, married a genuine Indian priest, and come back out with him in tow, now speaking Latvian as do their children, although they now live in Sweden where they have a shop of some related health and wellness stuff... but I guess that's a bit off topic.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Reluctant_Sir

For Christians, I am more familiar with three times during their lives, not three times a year...

That baffled me too. Perhaps I misremembered that detail. :-(

AJ

AmigaClone 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I suspect most of the Christians who attend services three times a year will likely attend church on Christmas and Easter. The third time likely is split between a second service related to Easter, one of the big three (Birth, Marriage, or Death) that involves either them or a close family member, or while visiting a good friend who attends church on a (nearly) weekly basis.

Replies: The Outsider

The Outsider 🚫
Updated:

@AmigaClone

While I was raised a Roman Catholic, and once I went to college (don't ask how long ago that was) and later became an EMT and paramedic (7 day a week jobs for over 30 years), I basically abandoned it.

I want to say there are seven sacraments, but a person can only do six. Birth (Baptism), First Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Anointment, Anointment of the Sick, Death.

I suppose you could be sick more than once and get seven or more, but I don't actually know if that counts.

I'd have to still care.

Replies: DBActive

DBActive 🚫

@The Outsider

I want to say there are seven sacraments, but a person can only do six. Birth (Baptism), First Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Anointment, Anointment of the Sick, Death.

7
There are 7. Baptism, Penance, Communion, Confirmation, marriage, ordination, anointing of the sick.
You can do all 7 if the timing is right.

Replies: The Outsider

The Outsider 🚫
Updated:

@DBActive

Now that I think it through, you're right, someone can... The junior priest at my baptism left the priesthood, got married and had two kids...

Replies: DBActive

DBActive 🚫

@The Outsider

Or a widower can become a priest. Some former Lutheran and Episcopal married clergy have become Catholic priests and Eastern Catholic priests priests can be married.

Replies: The Outsider

The Outsider 🚫
Updated:

@DBActive

You're right, again.

My wife is Ukrainian Orthodox (though we're not very religious) You'd think I would have remembered that Eastern Orthodox priests can marry.

Replies: Michael Loucks DBActive

Michael Loucks 🚫

@The Outsider

My wife is Ukrainian Orthodox (though we're not very religious) You'd think I would have remembered that Eastern Orthodox priests can marry.

Eastern Orthodoxy ordains married men; a priest or deacon (and in some jurisdictions, Subdeacon and Reader) cannot marry.

There have been a few cases of extreme "ekonomia" that allowed remarriage after the death of a spouse but the last one of which I'm aware in the US was over 30 years ago (Father Joseph Allen), and caused a huge uproar in the Antiochian Archdiocese.

DBActive 🚫

@The Outsider

The same is also true in the Eastern Catholic Churches. My daughter dated the son of a Greek Catholic priest.

Replies: The Outsider

The Outsider 🚫
Updated:

@DBActive

We get to celebrate two Christmases and two Easters.

We celebrate the Christian and the Eastern Orthodox Easter, but we also celebrate Ukrainian Christmas (Epiphany, January 6th) along with the Christian December 25th Christmas … the Christmas tree has to survive that long …

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@awnlee jawking

1. Moslem is the older spelling. While it is more accurate to the Arabic pronunciation, some people today consider it offensive since you usually only see it with respect to some very old-fashioned ideas about the religion.

2. Historically, the third day was All Saints' Day (November 1st), a feast day to celebrate the idea that there is a spiritual bond between Heaven an Man. The existence of saints is the proof of God's continued interest in us (allegedly).

Also worth noting that 3 is a very important number in Christianity, so it's common to say three when the number is variable.

3. The term you're looking for here is "cultural Muslim" or "nominal Muslim". There are two types, but be aware that conservative Muslim communities often do not recognize the difference.

Non-practicing believers are Muslims who hold the faith but do not practice all of the religious rites. This tends to be more common in non-Muslim countries where it can be difficult to mesh Muslim practices with other cultures. This is similar to "lapsed Christians".

Non-believing cultural Muslim are people who have no faith in the religion, but follow the visible practices because they live in predominantly Muslim areas. This is generally a type of "virtue signalling". This term also applies to immigrant groups whose ancestors were Muslims but modern individuals may no longer practice.

awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

The story as currently outlined has the white male protagonist meeting a young Muslim woman of Kashmiri descent in a social situation. She normally wears western clothes and has even discreetly tried bacon and sausages, but she won't drink alcohol. She lives at home by choice and she respects her parents. She's not a 'hardcore' Mosque attender but she goes occasionally.

I don't want the character to be a cliche but I also want her to be plausible. I'm finding it difficult to find the right balance.

AJ

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I guess two would be Christmas and Easter. What is the third occasion?

The two most likely "Third Day" would be "All Saints Day" (November 1st), as mentioned by another.

or

The First Day of Lent (the Wednesday) after "Fat Tuesday" aka Mardi Gras.

Another possibility is a "Local" Saint's Day, such as the "Feast of Saint George" or whichever (Catholic or Orthodox) saint is culturally significant. Saint Patrick in Ireland, Saint Gregory, or Catherine, or (Mother) Mary. Some communities have a Celebration Day, including a well-attended Mass on that particular Holliday (Holy Day).

kinkbugz 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I live in a Muslim country so I think I can answer this question:

3) Do Muslims/Moslems also have believers who who visit a Mosque a handful of times a year? What are those occasions?

Yes though it's very rare here (probably because we literally do have religious police)

Ramadhan (usually first day), Eid Al Fitr, Prophet's birthday, Eid al-Adha.

The dates change every year in accordance to the lunar calendar.

Though, I should mention, how religious they are can easily be seen by how often they pray. Pious ones usually pray 5 times a day on the dot. Less religious ones will adhere to 3. The un religious ones will usually not pray at all.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@kinkbugz

Ramadhan (usually first day), Eid Al Fitr, Prophet's birthday, Eid al-Adha.

Thank you, I'm very grateful for your help.

AJ

William Turney Morris 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I was raised Church of England (C of E) in Australia, now called the Anglican Church of Australia. The equivalent denomination in the USA is Episcopalian - the Anglican Church in North America is a completely different group. We would joke that C of E stood for 'Christmas and Easter'.

Replies: Rodeodoc

Rodeodoc 🚫

@William Turney Morris

In Canada the Anglican Church is referred to as the church that stands for nothing and falls for anything.

William Turney Morris 🚫

@awnlee jawking

A very old term for Moslem / Muslim is 'Mussleman'.

Replies: Michael Loucks awnlee jawking

Michael Loucks 🚫

@William Turney Morris

A very old term for Moslem / Muslim is 'Mussleman'.

Another archaic one is Mohammedan.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@William Turney Morris

A very old term for Moslem / Muslim is 'Mussleman'.

I believe I've seen that on curry house menus as an uncommon variant of 'Massaman'.

AJ

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Forum: Author Hangout

Assorted Religious Questions (not controversial, I hope)

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