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Do Overs

NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

How would you write the tale?

I've just celebrated 73 trips around the sun.

I was speaking to a friend as we shared beers at the local pub.

I laid out a do-over scenario where our consciousness and present knowledge would return to our previous age of 13 to 15. Just at the beginning of our maturing into a young adult.

There are several tales here on SOL that fit that scenario.

If the 'magic' through whatever means were possible, the question is would you pay attention to the voices in your head?

I'd listen and act accordingly or, fuck you asshole, I'm going to ignore the voices.

Obviously I cannot be sure, but I'd hope for 'pay attention' and make better choices.

What are your thoughts? Yeah or nay?

DBActive ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

You would just make different mistakes than you did the first time.

Replies:   NC-Retired
NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@DBActive

I fully agree with the idea of we would make different mistakes.

But... would your conscious awareness of that time in your life have paid attention or no to those mistakes from the first time through or try to avoid them?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

But... would your conscious awareness of that time in your life have paid attention or no to those mistakes from the first time through or try to avoid them?

Definitely the ones you have major regrets over.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@NC-Retired

We all avoided doing some things when we were kids, because we remember being told these things were dangerous, stupid, or otherwise a bad idea. "Don't pet the alligators"...

And did some things just on a hunch that they might be fun.

Presumably memories of past life experiences would be memories, not "voices in our heads" - It's probably not good if a person can't tell the difference.

I figure personal memory of having done something in our past life - and failed or succeeded - would be an even more powerful influence than parental advice or vague hunches.

Of course, there are a lot of people who carefully avoid following even the soundest advice and who never seem to learn from experience.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy ๐Ÿšซ

@irvmull

Of course, there are a lot of people who carefully avoid following even the soundest advice and who never seem to learn from experience

Yes, and we have a name for them. They are called politicians ..

Replies:   red61544
red61544 ๐Ÿšซ

@Pixy

Yes, and we have a name for them. They are called politicians ..

Bazinga!!! And I think most of them have multiple voices in their head telling them what to do - so they do nothing.

maracorby ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

So it's a separate, adult consciousness doing a ride-along in the child's head?

That could go either way. Certainly kids don't always listen to the advice of their elders. Even if they think it's good advice - "just go up and talk to her, don't be afraid". So part of the question is how much your kid self and adult self would see eye to eye, and how patient your adult self would be.

Do you picture an actual conversational relationship between the two, or is the adult just watching and nudging? Being able to prove knowlege of the future would likely help. "1965? The Beatles are going to release a new album called Help in a few months. Let me sing you a few of the songs you'll be hearing on radio soon."

Personally, if the young me didn't heed my advice, I'd probably consider it hell to helplessly watch myself make the kinds of stupid decisions that I did back then.

Replies:   NC-Retired
NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

@maracorby

Excellent points!

Dicrostonyx ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@NC-Retired

I think it's very important to remember that the brain isn't fully developed at that point in adolescence. In fact, current studies suggest that it isn't fully developed until mid-20s.

At the same time, a lot of the reason why teens are so chaotic is because they lack experience and everything is happening for the first time.

So, I think the real trick for trying to do a do-over by your method would be balancing those two points. If the original, early teen personality is dominant and the older mind is mostly just acting as an advisor and memory bank, then it might temper some of the worst reactions of the younger self by providing context and tempering disappointments, but both personalities would still be in a 13-year-old brain.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dicrostonyx

I think it's very important to remember that the brain is fully developed at that point in adolescence. In fact, current studies suggest that it isn't fully developed until mid-20s.

I think there's an "American negative" in that first sentence. ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Dicrostonyx
Dicrostonyx ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Also called a typo. Fixed, thank you.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dicrostonyx

I that case I owe you an apology. I'd just been reading a story in which "I could care less" was rife, and it made me rather grouchy. :-(

AJ

Replies:   Dicrostonyx
Dicrostonyx ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Oh, I get you. I usually try to correct my own errors (my degree's got to be useful for something, damn it!) but I tend to be on SOL in the evening by which time I'm too tired to think clearly.

NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dicrostonyx

Also excellent points.

But let's not forget the effects of the raging hormones of puberty.

I made many mistakes because of those damned hormones!

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@NC-Retired

But... would your conscious awareness of that time in your life have paid attention or no to those mistakes from the first time through or try to avoid them?

The more painful or pleasurable the memory, the more you would heed it. Even if that memory is not "yours" or not even real.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/meet-two-scientists-who-implanted-false-memory-mouse-180953045/

It just requires more research and willing (or maybe unwilling) subjects to extend this technology to humans.

There's no reason that a "memory transfer" via do-over would necessarily be any different.

Problem with that is it would be difficult to make an interesting story - you'd just have a kid who made good decisions more often than others tend to do.

solreader50 ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

I've just celebrated 73 trips around the sun.

Me too! Haven't we done well. :-)

For me it would depend on whether I know I was on a do-over or not. If it were just voice in the head of the 17-year-old me, I'd probably think that I'd better lay off the LSD a bit. But if I knew I was on a do-over I'm sure I'd be a slave to that knowledge and spent all my effort preparing to buy as much Microsoft, Apple, Oracle and Nvidia stock as I could. Oh and I would probably try to get into the Royal Navy as a junior officer, something I was too hippy to do in the 1960s.

NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

Here in the USA, yesterday was a national holiday, Thanksgiving.

Went to my son's for fellowship and a meal.

When back home I started thinking about how to approach the idea of influencing my younger self?

As stated by several, we would make new mistakes. But what technique would give the best chance of influencing the younger self?

The 60th anniversary of JFK's assassination was a couple days ago. I was in 7th grade gym and we all sat on the gym floor as Cronkite's voice came over the PA speakers.

As @maracorby said, what about some precognition? That event would certainly qualify. But would that knowledge drive the younger toward insanity?

Or, as @Dicrostonyx hinted, is the elder a ride along or does the elder completely displace the younger?

Again, there are several stories here on SOL that try one or the other approach.

As @solreader50 suggests, knowing would be an important component for the younger to know if the elder was a ride along.

So many possibilities.

Through some 'magic' if you were near the end of this life and a do-over were offered, would you take it?

Or would you prefer a new life in an alternate reality like CMSix told in so many of his tales?

Replies:   maracorby
maracorby ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

Through some 'magic' if you were near the end of this life and a do-over were offered, would you take it?

Or would you prefer a new life in an alternate reality like CMSix told in so many of his tales?

I don't think I'd be happy with a sharing/advising sort of do-over. A new body/life, or maybe completely taking over my old body/life... maybe.

I tend to view this sort of thing through a video game lens. Many times, after I've sunk 40 hours into a game, I'll feel like I finally understand it well enough to *really* play it. I made a lot of stupid decisions my first time around, but I'll know better on my next play through. That first game was just learning the mechanics; the second game is the one where I start to really have fun.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT ๐Ÿšซ

@maracorby

If you have survived 70+ years, it is more likely than not that you hede good advice, and are less prone to bad decisions.

So, it is probably more likely you would at least consider advice.

There are plenty of studies of people who served time in prison. Most don't think like an average person. For instance, if they feel they were "mistreated" their response is almost always violence! They don't even consider non-violent responses!!!

If a psychologist suggests a non-violent response, the criminal almost always states such a response would be foolish, and "provoke" a violent response by being weak!

People who consistently make bad choices, often cannot conceive reasonable responses. Not an absolute, but a strongly measurable trend.

NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

An observation of a recent family event.

My #2 grandson is 'into' cars. Working on, restoring, modifying & all that sort of activity entails.

In the summer I and his father observed him beating on rusted bolts with a hammer and chisel without any eye protection.

We 'strongly suggested' he always wear safety glasses at the least and a face shield when grinding.

Thanksgiving day he was grinding and of course got a metal sliver in his eye. No shield or glasses.

He got it out yesterday with a visit to an eye doc.

This incident kinda reinforces the idea that good advice will not be heeded until personal experience smacks one upside the head.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

This incident kinda reinforces the idea that good advice will not be heeded until personal experience smacks one upside the head.

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@NC-Retired

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

Experience comes from paying attention to what happens when you use bad judgement. Unfortunately, lots of people never make the connection.

I know more than one person who has been "smacked upside the head" repeatedly by the same mistake, and who nevertheless continues to make that same mistake over and over.

LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@NC-Retired

I don't consider a classic do-over or time loop scenarios time travel, but only information transfer. Therefore there's no dichotomy between the younger and older "self" it's just a download of an update.

It's most consistent with the simulation hypothesis. A snapshot is made, then the simulation (or derivative) processes for a while until is terminated, or not. Another derivative is launched from that earlier snapshot, but with updated memories of a single (or more) characters from a later snapshot. Them being dead, perhaps long dead at that time isn't a complication if the last state had been saved. It places a lot of implied importance on that character, unless it's a random glitch in the system or common practice to run uncountable copies of the simulation with all kinds of subtle changes (multiverse).

Subjective, the youngster just wake up one day having dreamt a version of the rest of their life overnight. The "dream" been so vivid, they may have trouble to get back up to speed with current events (older displaced the young), or not so much (older "taking a ride along").

If it's full replacement, the old mind in young body would probably believe they're on a do-over with no much additional convincing needed. If the younger mind is left intact, just updated with a bank of memories from the "future," it's way easier to ignore those just a freakish vision. Precognition value of that vision would be very important then, and should be established quickly, before the memory of it fades. The key of retaining memories is to revisit them.

Unfortunately, our memories aren't exactly reliable, each such recall introduce subtle changes to the memory itself, as it is being reinterpreted in light of current context and purpose of recal. People easily and seamlessly retcon current, changing, political beliefs or stances upon their memories for instance, seeking to keep their personalities and character more consistent than it is. Unless, the change is a key element of the memory, but then the perceived motivations can be adjusted or explained in a new way. Even facts drift easily. Complex, chaotic events are over time polished into easy to tell legends that aim to retain and crystallize the overall impact at the expense of seemingly irrelevant details. What details are seen as irrelevant may and will change over time. To refill lost details comparing notes, by fact checking or talking with others who were present is important. Curiously, with right nudging, the latter may introduce completely new content that's wholly fictional into the memory, still strongly believed to be factual afterwards. And neither is available for future memories of our do-over character unless they meet someone else who's likewise updated.

There's no warranty the implanted memories, as retained in late life will have relevance or even resemblance to the young persons current events even if the world itself would experience no random change. With I find extremely unlikely. Lottery ticket numbers, basketball or even soccer game results to be exactly the same, I don't believe it's possible. General trends may hold, who made the playoffs, even the champions may still be same, but it's not a given.

Those changes of the underlying world will quickly accumulate. Not to mention, by making any different choices in their life, something that's almost inevitable regardless of "future" memories, the character would experience the world differently, visiting different places at different times, participating in different events.

Unless cherished and cultivated, the relevance of the "visionary dream" will diminish quickly, eventually reduced to just a strong "hunch" how the world events would likely unfold. Not very different from just a strong intuition, and likewise not always right either.

While in personal life there could be strong impact early on, it too will fast lose direct resemblance of the vision. Resulting in it to be increasingly dismissed as misleading. Paradoxically, the faster the more impactful it actually was.

However, yes, I would take the chance, would it be on offer. But I wouldn't dare to go before 1992, just for paranoia; the "song revolution" could turn into bloodshed far too easily. Sure, there's a few personal memories and experiences I would like to revisit before then.

But well, I turned fourteen in 1992 so there's that too. And there's hope to find those memories fresh. I would rather go for just visionary fact dump than a full personality rewrite, believing (likely falsely) that I haven't changed all that much and would know how to handle such a vision even though some of the most vivid highlights could be very confusing.

NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

One of the questions is whether, in a personal do-over situation, your younger self would 'pay attention' to the older self.

Not an exact correlation, but in chapter 1 of https://storiesonline.net/s/52948/hawk-the-stone-age-spirit-guide, the spirit character, Hawk, tries to warn a bunch of folks of danger only to be ignored.

I'd imagine that would be the same response if there was not some communication preparation for many weeks or months beforehand.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
helmut_meukel ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

One of the questions is whether, in a personal do-over situation, your younger self would 'pay attention' to the older self.

I wouldn't want to be only the spirit trying to advice my younger self.
BTW, that situation contradicts the term do-over, you couldn't do-over your life because you are not in control!
For a real do-over you need to have full control.
I can see four different scenarios for a real do-over in you own young body:
โ€ข Your younger self is put into the role of helpless observer who can only make suggestions.
โ€ข Your younger self is gone, including his memories, that lets you deal with the gaps in your own memory about the details of your situation back then.
โ€ข Your younger self is gone, but his memories are still there.
โ€ข Your younger and your older self got fused to one new self.

The last three are different versions of "There can only be one!", as described in many time travel stories where you can't meet or come near your other self without dire consequences.

HM.

Soronel ๐Ÿšซ

@NC-Retired

I would actually find a do-over a nightmare, at least as usually presented. I had major medical problems that only really became apparent when I was in my late teems and unless the magic were to fix those I don't see much of anything changing.

To give something of an idea, I was completely blind by the time I was in my mid-twenties and that is honestly the _least_ of what I have going on.

Replies:   NC-Retired
NC-Retired ๐Ÿšซ

@Soronel

Thank you for your perspective.

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