Forum: Author Hangout

Okay, fine, I should have typed "no chapter breaks." Edited to fix to avoid further nitpicking derailments.

I will say straight out, I don't think I'm very good at managing my chapters. That said, I try to end them with a moment that A) resolves something but B) points up something that is unresolved. My usual failure mode is to end too strongly A without enough B, so not pulling the reader forward enough.

One thing I've been working on lately is trying to tie off chapters at roughly the same size (+/- 25%) in a given story. This is easier to do than I expected. I'm finding, though, that different stories want very different sizes — one WIP, they're 10k words, while another are 2k.

I try to end them with a moment that A) resolves something but B) points up something that is unresolved.

That's good writing. Congrats.

B) points up something that is unresolved.

Shouldn't a novel contain an overriding story arc that doesn't get resolved until the final chapters? (Except Literary Fiction where nothing ever happens, and Game of Thrones where story arcs get mothballed to be continued several novels later).

As such, B should normally come 'free'.

AJ

Like I said, I don't think I handle chaptering very well.

Shouldn't a novel contain an overriding story arc that doesn't get resolved until the final chapters?

Yes, that is the main plot conflict. But throughout the story, minor conflicts are encountered and resolved.

I prefer to end a chapter on a cliffhanger

Most feedback I've received on the subject seems to be that my readers get tired of chapters constantly ending with cliffhangers. Particularly with serially published stories, it's emotionally tiring.

I'm not sure how representative that is of my readers or SOL readers in general. It seems strange to insert a break point, where the reader should be able to stop and resume later, then try to manipulate the reader into not wanting to stop.

AJ

Particularly with serially published stories

Actually, only serially published stories. Not a problem when the whole story is there because all you have to do is start the next chapter. Also, "cliffhanger" is used loosely in the articles I read. It can simply be an unanswered question to keep the reader reading.

If you watch TV shows, the season ending one always has several cliffhangers. That is annoying. But that's the nature of a serial and I guess where cliffhangers came from.

Having every chapter end tugging at me to turn the page and keep reading only makes it worse.

Not for the author. That's their goal.

But sometimes I start the next chapter to see what happens (with the cliffhanger) and then go to bed, starting the chapter again the next time.

And if readers start avoiding authors that overdo it?

I don't think that will happen. More likely the authors who don't keep the reader turning the pages will lose them. But I'm speaking as a fan of thrillers.

As an author, I write for the readers who like the way I write. I don't try to write the way I think readers would like. My stories aren't for everyone. But what author's stories are for everyone? You have to write the way you want to write and attract readers who enjoy it.

Saying that, OVERDOING anything is bad. Over telling is bad. Over showing is bad. All short, fast-paced chapters is bad (draining on the reader). All long, slow chapters is bad (boring). Overuse of cliffhangers is also bad.

You suggested that you can try to fill out a chapter by adding more description to your scenes. That will certainly make your chapters longer, but it doesn't add more story, and readers are reading for story, not for description.

Describing scenes can be important for "Fantasy" and Sci-Fi stories, or other settings which many readers may not be familiar with.

For example: Jody Daniels sets most of his stories in South Africa. I believe his stories provide a wonderful example of Describing scenes, sometimes providing necessary information, other times setting a tone for the stories; without "bogging down" the story.

I enjoy his descriptions of Africa at sunset, or at night, friends at a BBQ, or a small diner overlooking an overcast harbor. Of course, an aspect of Louis L'Amour novels I enjoy is the often significant details of the scenery. Many locations on my "Bucket List" are locations he described in his stories.

Some writers do this well, others do not; others are extremely bad at description (too little can be worse than too much) [and vice versa].

I try to use description of scenes to "Show" rather than "telling": Veteran and clever characters I describe many scenes in more detail, depicting their situational awareness. Foolish characters often are not Observant, and thus get "surprised" (and so does the readers; I hope they recognize I am using a deliberate technique).

Describing scenes can be important for "Fantasy" and Sci-Fi stories, or other settings which many readers may not be familiar with.

I think by "adding more description" she meant more than what was necessary. So let's say you wrote a great chapter with description. But you thought it was too short. You could go back and add extra description which would make it longer but not better.

I think by "adding more description" she meant more than what was necessary.

You probably have the correct interpretation.

However, in my opinion, too many stories lack sufficient description. Many writing guides recommend brevity, and "action" (trying to appeal to younger people with short attention spans). I don't think many people with short attention spans read much. Porn stories might get some such people. But most of those stories don't bother with writing techniques. (There are a very few well written short porn stories.)

Since people seeking to improve their writing are among those who read our forums, I think my perspective has merit. Some writers will do as they see fit. Many, however, may be swayed by what seems to be a "consensus"

There are competitions for writing 10 word stories, so 10 word chapters should be a doddle by comparison.

AJ

Bebop3's most recent tale is novel-length, no chapter breaks, and doesn't need them.

Apparently it also doesn't need much of a story description.

AJ

Yeah, he's one of the sparce on cover copy guys….

It's good, though.

It's good, though.

I don't like the style of writing. You have to read everything twice to solve the clues as to who is doing or saying what to whom and what their relevance is. And the lack of scene breaks and chapters is exhausting - it's like being hit by a tsunami.

I have no inclination to try to finish the story.

AJ