On a large farm, a tractor is working on a blank crop that catches fire. The tractor is fitted with blank attachment(s) and either as part of the setup or left attached from a previous task has a water pump (with at least minimal hoses out and in)
Can someone please fill in the blanks?
The more expensive and/or hard to replace the tractor and attachments are the better.
Thanks in advance.
(Unless your post starts "I'm not a farmer but…")
The water pump on the tractor doesn't make sense to me. Large farms that require irrigation have large dedicated irrigation systems.
https://www.robertsirrigation.com/
I suppose a harvester, tiller. or plow might have a mister to help control dust, but that wouldn't be enough to deal with a fire.
There are tank trailers, but these are used for pesticieds, herbicides, or liquid fertilizers, not irrigation. You wouldn't want to spray any of those on a fire.
Crop sprayer.... Some of those tanks are pretty big and could be used, at a pinch, if a field is on fire and you happen to just have it hooked up to the/a tractor at the time.
Crop sprayer.... Some of those tanks are pretty big and could be used, at a pinch, if a field is on fire and you happen to just have it hooked up to the/a tractor at the time.
Those generally aren't used with clear water, they are used for pest/weed killers and fertilizers. Even in a pinch I don't think you would want to spray any of those things on a fire.
Anything with a high liquid content would be fine (unless it was petrol- I've actually seen a fire put out with diesel once).
Large farms typically have dedicated water trucks, basically the civilian versions of firefighter tanker trucks, so it's likely that would be in use.
Best you'd have from a tractor would be a trailer for spreading liquid fertilizer (which would have pumps on it), but likely wouldn't fit the dynamic.
It seems I wasn't specific enough. The setup of the tractor has nothing to do with a crop fire and was in use prior to the fire starting.
The crop has to be capable of burning under the right(wrong) conditions
The tractor is set up to be working in fields of that crop
It must have a pump fitted, but does not need to be in use at that time.
Does that help?
Thanks all
he crop has to be capable of burning under the right(wrong) conditions
For a rapidly spreading fire, the crop would have to be dry. The only crops that I am aware of that would be allowed to dry out like that in the field are grains (wheat, field corn...), and I don't think they'd be out spraying the crop with anything for a grain crop that close to harvesting.
"and I don't think they'd be out spraying the crop with anything for a grain crop that close to harvesting."
They wouldn't be. But many farms (at least in the UK) diversify with different crops in separate fields during the summer, to mitigate unusual weather patterns and unexpected pestilence. So it wouldn't be unusual to be spraying another different crop nearby. Many sprayers have special nozzles that reduce 'misting' so as not to waste product on anything other than what's directly below the booms.
It's good practice to hedge in (surround) fire prone crops with less flammable ones to stop fires becoming inferno's capable of jumping fields and natural barriers (like streams, rivers, roads).
Many sprayers have special nozzles that reduce 'misting' so as not to waste product on anything other than what's directly below the booms.
The big problem with those sprayers for the scenario in the OP is that the product in them, when sprayed on a fire, is likely to create very toxic smoke.
The big problem with those sprayers for the scenario in the OP is that the product in them, when sprayed on a fire, is likely to create very toxic smoke.
Most likely. But when you are seeing a crop worth thousands about to, or in danger of, going up, then that's of very little consequence. It's human nature to react instinctively to danger and worry about the consequences after.
Remember, this is a farmer possibly looking at the potential loss of a crop that may be the only thing that makes the farm profitable for the year.
Remember, this is a farmer possibly looking at the potential loss of a crop that may be the only thing that makes the farm profitable for the year.
Saving the crop won't mean much if the farmer is killed by the toxic smoke.
ETA: Simply turning on the irrigation system (assuming he has one) will be faster and safer than trying to put out the fire with liquid pesticide or liquid fertilizer.
Saving the crop won't mean much if the farmer is killed by the toxic smoke.
Like I said, when people panic, they don't react or think rationally.
Also, most modern farming equipment run air conditioning, which works best when the doors and windows are shut. It also cuts out the outside noise, so as to make the phone call you are currently having a lot easier. Farmers love to gossip!
Simply turning on the irrigation system (assuming he has one) will be faster and safer than trying to put out the fire with liquid pesticide or liquid fertilizer
Again, these are very rare and used for crops that require frequent irrigation like berries/fruit. Permanent non natural irrigation systems (ie sub surface) are very rare and restrict the ability of a field to be ploughed. They wouldn't be practical in wheat/barley or OSR fields.
Remember, this is a crop that needs to be harvested and the ground to be ploughed. Not forgetting that you wouldn't be watering a crop that you were about to harvest.
Again, these are very rare and used for crops that require frequent irrigation like berries/fruit.
They are extremely common in the corn belt. I see them all the time out in farm country in Wisconsin.
This article from the BBC might give you some pointers. It lists crops liable to burn along with some preventative measures the farmer uses.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-62226364
You require the tractor to be expensive, but you might be better adjusting your story slightly for the tractor to be in fact, a combine harvester. These are stupidly expensive, and it's often the case that they are 'owned' by a collective of farmers who band together to (buy the damn thing in the first place) harvest each others wheat/barley crops. Not unlike a traditional barn raising, where a community comes together to build a barn, something outwith a singular farmers ability.
If the tractor plus ancillary equipment AND A PUMP were not necessary to the story, yes, going with a combine would make perfect sense.
BUT
It seems you are all fixated on the tractor being used to try to put out the fire and what caused it.
The tractor is NOT going to be used to fight the fire. I already know how, who and why the fire started.
If the story was set in the UK I know folks who could answer the questions I asked. BUT US farms have enormous arable fields compared to the UK and whilst to an extent farming is farming, the vastly larger scale makes for differences that my sources lack authentic knowledge of.
Working backwards, what might the purpose of the water be if it's not for the tractor's current function. A mixed farm, perhaps, where at least some livestock is kept in fields without running water, so the tractor carries water around to fill up the animals' drinking water?
AJ
If hitched on the front that would work.
I know UK farmers who do that, but do US farmers with huge arable or predominantly arable farms also do that?
Now to come up with the equipment on the back and in current use. Once a suitably expensive implement is chosen a tractor powerful enough and favoured by farmers can be selected. Again, a tractor that is preferred but out of many farmers budgets would be ideal.
Thanks
Possibly a mature (a day or so away from harvest) wheat crop that is next to a public right of way. Some idiotic 'towney' throws away an empty glass beer/pop bottle during a prolonged heat spell. The bottle catches the suns rays at just the right angle mid-day and the glass bottom refracts the sun enough to start a smoulder which becomes a fire, which spreads.
Another option is a disposable barbecue carelessly discarded in nearby woods, which sets the woods on fire next to grass that's been cut for silage and has been left to dry before baling. Also, wheat that has been harvested and the chaff yet to be baled for winter feed. Both grass and chaff need to be dry before being baled, otherwise the dampness will start fermentation within the plastic bale wrap, leading to self ignition.
The crop sprayer could be working in a neighbouring field when the farmer sees the fire and since speed is the essence with fires decides to try and 'spray' the fire in it's infancy to kill a larger fire that will endanger the silage/bales.
The sprayer could either be spraying pesticide, or say a nitrogen/water mix.
https://www.deere.com.au/assets/images/region-4/products/application-equipment/technozzlegy-sprayers-r2z019323.jpg
fighting crop fires with a tractor
Results:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ftsa&q=fighting+crop+fires+with+a+tractor&iax=videos&ia=videos
Relevant to the query? Not a clue. But interesting nonetheless.
Cheers!
I have a field that is irregular that totals under 5 acres in size that I grow cabbage in. To irrigate the field I use a tractor that tows a 2500 gallon (9500L) tank of water that has a spreader bar that covers 12 rows 6 left and 6 right with a 3/8in (9.5mm)line that falls down on each row dribbling a stream of water on the rows as you travel down the row doing about 10mph (16kph). I can water the field using 7 tanks.
As for Sprayers fighting or stopping a brush fire that would highly depend on the size of the fire, what is actually burning, and the wind but more than likely the sprayer would only slow the fire down at best as the volume of liquid that the units apply are normally a mist where it only dampens the crop not drenching it.
As to fighting the fire with irrigation yes they would work great as they can pump out enough volume of water to stop the fire as well as put it out the only problem would be in that the irrigation unit would need to be in place ahead of and in the path of the fire no matter if it is a fixed sprayer (stays in place doesn't move) or a crawling sprayer (in general they are set to move 1 yard (.9m) a minute.
When plowing a fire break I wouldn't use the Air Conditioner. You are plowing a fire break that is down wind leading the fire and the AC will speed up and increase the chances of the operator succumbing to smoke inhalation which will be and is the biggest danger
You are plowing a fire break that is down wind leading the fire and the AC will speed up and increase the chances of the operator succumbing to smoke inhalation which will be and is the biggest danger
Not necessarily. I could be wrong about this with USA vehicles, but in Europe, air con works best (and in some makes of cars, it only works) when the air flow is set to circulation, rather than outside intake.
Given that modern construction and farming vehicles are fitted with extensive pollen and particulate filters, you actually have a considerable amount of time before outside pollution makes its way into the vehicle. Of course, this only applies if the operator keeps all doors and windows closed ...
Given that modern construction and farming vehicles are fitted with extensive pollen and particulate filters, you actually have a considerable amount of time before outside pollution makes its way into the vehicle.
That was almost exactly what was stated to me by a guy who works for a certain well known green tractor dealership (in the UK) The only thing he added was to set it to high and outside intake until the smoke got close and then switch to a low or medium setting and recirculate. The idea being to get as much cold fresh air into the cab as possible before closing the outside intake and using a lower fan speed to maintain that state for as long as possible.
That was almost exactly what was stated to me by a guy who works for a certain well known green tractor dealership (in the UK) The only thing he added was to set it to high and outside intake until the smoke got close and then switch to a low or medium setting and recirculate. The idea being to get as much cold fresh air into the cab as possible before closing the outside intake and using a lower fan speed to maintain that state for as long as possible.
I'm sorry but yes the tractors filter system would remove soot and ash this is not your problem or your biggest enemy but {CO} Carbon Monoxide an {CO2} Carbon Dioxide which no normal farm equipment has filters for or a sealed cab to prevent (yes there are specialized equipment made that has these features but not standard farming equipment) then there is that added gasses from any chemical sprays placed on the field. Even running the AC on recirculate the system still draws in a smaller amount of fresh air and that is why I said I would not run with the AC running. Yes with the cabin closed on the tractor it still isn't a sealed unit but it will give you the longest amount of time possible.
In my area we have a volunteer fire department that I assist with and I have personally seen equipment chock out and stall (stop running) when the wind shifted the direction and the CO/CO2 build up was large enough.
To many people think that the white or black smoke you see is the full and only danger it is not just search for "fire silent killer" or talk to your local fire station.
This past year the state of Oregon had a very bad forest fire and there was a large number of cars found parked on the road with people that where killed in the fire and lucky/unlucky they died from smoke inhalation before they burnt. Those car have and use the same style of AC systems.
On a large farm, a tractor is working on a blank crop that catches fire. The tractor is fitted with blank attachment(s) and either as part of the setup or left attached from a previous task has a water pump (with at least minimal hoses out and in)
The crops most likely to burn (when they are dry and ready or near harvesting) are wheat, rye, barley, oats, cotton, and corn to name just a few.
The tractor would need to be fitted with any plow that would turn or tear up the earth (moldboard plow, disk plow, ridge plow, sub-soil plow, reversible garden plow, chisel plow)
I'm sorry but most field fires are just to big, fast, or powerful for any tractor carrying water to have any meaning full effect.
More times then not a field fire is stopped by containment or there is nothing left to burn. Of course some times you can be blessed and mother nature will smile on you.
I'm sorry but most field fires are just to big, fast, or powerful for any tractor carrying water to have any meaning full effect.
If you look back at my posts you will see that I stated that;
The setup of the tractor was done BEFORE the fire started.
The tractor is NOT going to be used to attempt to put out the fire.
The pump may be in place simply because it was not removed following an earlier task.
As helpful as people intend to be, it is not helpful to ignore the questions asked in the original post and instead invent scenarios and offer answers to them. I never asked how the fire started, I never stated the tractor would attempt to put out the fire, people put 2 and 2 together and decided the answer was 6.
palamedes. As you appear to fit the criteria of actually being, or having been a farmer, I apologise that your time has been wasted offering answers to non existent questions.
Maybe it's my fault for not asking the questions in an American Farming Forum?
As helpful as people intend to be, it is not helpful to ignore the questions asked in the original post and instead invent scenarios and offer answers to them. I never asked how the fire started, I never stated the tractor would attempt to put out the fire, people put 2 and 2 together and decided the answer was 6.
Devils advocate: To be fair, you originally asked a technical question with very little information on which to go on. Unsurprisingly, people supplied reasons as to why the thing happened (including myself) because you were not clear in what it was you actually wanted.
You wanted people to 'fill in the blanks', but in order to do that, the reader requires more (pertinent) information. There is absolutely no point in replying to suggestions "That is not what I am after", when you fail to make it clear what it is that you are actually after. By that, I mean that you have an obvious (to you) goal in mind as to what you want to achieve, which, because it is in your brain and we are not mind readers, we (as in everyone else) are unable to fully satisfy your requirement.
I kindly suggest that you state your end goal (the purpose for having the specific parameters you require) and allow those amongst us with the required technical knowledge to supply the correct mechanics to the scenario. Otherwise, I think you are going to create something which the farming community is going to read and loudly exclaim "F*ck off! That would never happen!"
Maybe it's my fault for not asking the questions in an American Farming Forum?
The fault is on my side for not understanding what you needed or wanted. I was hoping to give you an answer that would help you make decisions.
I know for me I had a hard time filling in the first of your questions {working on a blank crop} as my mind went to
Where is the farm located ?
What time of the year is it ?
What type of farm is it as in the reasons behind that crop choice for being in the field ?
Your question about { The tractor is fitted with blank attachment(s) and either as part of the setup or left attached from a previous task has a water pump (with at least minimal hoses out and in) }
As a matter of fact my water wagon that I pull to water my cabbage does have a fire reel attached to it and it would take me less then a minute to drop my spray bar and couple the fire hose up for use and the hose is 50ft (15m) long. Depending how you use the hose my 2500 gallon (9500 litters) tank in a single stream would last maybe 5 minutes and if I use a fan spray possible 12-15 minutes before I run out of water. As for the cost of the water wagon and equipment I have less than $6000 into it and in truth anything that can hitch up to it can pull it so my choice of tractor to pair with it would be what crop am I working with and what time period the story takes place as well as the region.
I mean everyone knows about John Deere but what about having a Lamborghini Trattori instead.
Again I apologize that my brain goes the way it does.
Out here in Kansas farmers use disks to put fires out by discing the grass or crop into the ground so it doesn't spread .. no fuel the fire dies out ... a few years ago a truck got grass under the engine compartment, and started a a big grass fire... a neighboring farmer brought his big tractor and disc over and disced up the grass around the fire ..
https://www.expensive-world.com/most-expensive-tractors/
There is a list of five new ones ranging in price from $500,000 to over a million.
Just about every tractor ever made has a PTO, to which a water pump can be attached easily. And left attached, while doing other work that doesn't require PTO. The main reason I would leave my pump attached is the thing is heavy, and if it isn't in the way, why bother?
You already have a list of crops that burn.
The main reason I would leave my pump attached is the thing is heavy, and if it isn't in the way, why bother?
Oh how true that statement is.
The main reason I would leave my pump attached is the thing is heavy, and if it isn't in the way, why bother?
Someone could argue the additional weight causes higher fuel consume, but in relation to the weight of the tractor this is marginal.
HM.
Someone could argue the additional weight causes higher fuel consume, but in relation to the weight of the tractor this is marginal.
That someone would not be a farmer :p
Tractors, especially the small farm type, generally come with (at extra cost) several hundred pounds of lead weights. Sometimes you fill the large tires with water, as well.
It helps with traction on loose ground.
Most smaller farmers have a 500 gallon sprayer with swing out arms that they use to spray herbicides and insecticides. This is immediately washed out with ammonia after each use to neutralize the chemicals. The tractors PTO is used to power the pump and there is a hookup for a waterhose to spray trees for worms so it could be used as a firehouse to put out a fire. We typically refill the tank after cleaning so the next time we use it all we have to do is pour in the chemicals and let it circulate. It would be a quick hookup to fight a crop fire.
It would be a quick hookup to fight a crop fire.
Thank you for your input, it would be useful, but as previously stated, the equipment was already attached BEFORE the fire started and the tractor is NOT going to attempt to put out the fire.
The more expensive and/or hard to replace the tractor and attachments are the better.
Didn't Jeremy Clarkson buy a ridiculously expensive and over-sized tractor for his Diddly Squat vanity project farm?
The various replies seem set against a working tractor carrying a loaded water pump. Would a different piece of farm machinery fit your story or are you adamant it has to be a tractor?
ETA: Is there such an animal as an all-terrain cement mixer (eg for concreting fence posts in place)?
(Cue lots of replies about bulldozers and backhoes being used for fire fighting.)
AJ
Didn't Jeremy Clarkson buy a ridiculously expensive and over-sized tractor for his Diddly Squat vanity project farm?
He did indeed, for comedy purposes. JC, Charlie Chapman/ Buster Keaton, Rowan Atkinson and others all have something in common. They are all (were-for some of them) extremely intelligent individuals who made/make a lot of money from playing the buffoon.
JC knows full well that many of his 'decisions' are preposterous and 'stupid' but he is foremost an entertainer and knows what will 'entertain'. Does he often overstep the mark with regards to taste? Yes. Did he know that the tractor was too big before hand? Yes. Did he know that it would come with the wrong hitch? Yes.
But if he were to do things 'properly' which he is more than capable of doing, the show would have been boring and no-one would have watched it.
It's sad (and a little disturbing) that a large section of the populace believe that scripted shows like the Kardashians, Jersey Shore, TOWIE. etc, etc, are all 'fly on the wall documentaries' and not pre-scripted.
Actually, when you think about it. Most successful comedy duos work with the two individuals being (acting) polar opposites.
(Cue lots of replies about bulldozers and backhoes being used for fire fighting.)
OFFS…!!! :shudder: Can you envisage a realistic scenario in which a concrete mixer or bulldozer would be working in a huge field of say wheat, that has just started to be harvested??
Answers not in crayon will be considered humorous, those in crayon will be passed to the court as evidence for further protective custody.
OFFS…!!! :shudder: Can you envisage a realistic scenario in which a concrete mixer or bulldozer would be working in a huge field of say wheat, that has just started to be harvested??
YES I can :)
Mostly phone companies will buy or rent a small part of the field to erect cell towers. .
Then there is the energy side where like a few of my fields they have power poles/towers. Last year and this year they have replaced every wooden pole ( 2 poles side by side 25 foot apart {7.6m} 80-100 foot tall {24-30m) with a single metal pole. And by law they can take and use the land needed with out compensation. Yes the amount of land I gain back is not that large what is a bigger difference is I now have a higher control over weeds.
Some Farms are getting wind turbines. Those towers only take up a cars parking spot but you get a percentage of the power they create. (yes I would like some)
Then there is Gas/Fuel where they have pipes under the ground to carry said product. I had a field tied up for a year as they did maintenance as well as upgrade the size of the pipes. I didn't get to see what size they removed but the pipes that they put in where 24-30in {61-76cm}.
AJ proposed that the machinery would be used to fight the fire…
Whilst your scenarios are obviously believable, do you really think those machines would realistically be used to fight a crop fire?
"Hello Mr Insurance man. I tried to help out a farmer with a crop fire and my backhoe kinda melted. When can I expect the cheque for a new one?"
They use bulldozers for forest fires. A crop fire would be considerably less intense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SNKWGrvnl0
And yes, the video shows a bulldozer in the middle of a fire pushing around burning material.
And yes, the video shows a bulldozer in the middle of a fire pushing around burning material.
It does indeed. A bulldozer specially modified for the purpose. Owned and operated by the Fire Service.
So not a bulldozer in use laying gas lines or whatever, suddenly pressed into service to fight a crop fire.
But then again, who cares? AJ's suggestion ignored the fact that the machine would NOT be used to fight the fire.
AJ's suggestion ignored the fact that the machine would NOT be used to fight the fire.
No it didn't. But my humorous aside at the end reckoned you'd get suggestions about using them for that purpose anyway :-(
AJ
Whilst your scenarios are obviously believable, do you really think those machines would realistically be used to fight a crop fire?
Yes. Innocent bystanders jump into dangerous situations all the time to help out any way they can with whatever is at hand.
With respect to your specific case, a 360 slew would be difficult to use to fight a crop fire given the speed at which they move, but could work in specific situations and if the operator 'throws' out each bucket-full in order to spread the bucket load across the ground. A backhoe (or 180 in the UK) is not likely to use the backhoe, but the front bucket with the clam shell open like an inefficient dozer. Given the speed backhoes can travel at, with the front bucket open and in float, it might actually make a quite good firebreak creator- dependant on the strength of fire, the strength of any wind and the localised ability of the fire to jump obstacles.
