Forum: Author Hangout

but I am fairly certain that regardless of what that guy says in the linked post, how much you use does matter.

It does, but probably not the way you think it does. Under US law, there is no hard and fast rule for how much is too much. It's just one of 4 factors that all have to be analyzed together holistically, with no quantitative rules for any of it.

It's music to music, not lyrics in a book, but artists have sued each other over "copying" a few seconds of silence.

There have been lawsuits between book authors over the copying of a couple of sentences.

Even if the suit is without merit, it's going to cost a lot of money to make it go way. If you don't pay of the plaintiff, you'll be paying your own attorney.

Well that's true. I am aware of the 4 factors, I just did not want to get into a long post.

I was thinking that before any suit is filed there would first be a cease and desist letter, especially since we are talking works from which no income is being made. The short term response is to remove the language if it comes to it.

Yeah, the cease and desist would give an opportunity to correct, but easier to do it now. And, more importantly, I've decided it's a poor idea from a storytelling standpoint. I was using the lyrics, and really the whole song, tune and singer included, to set a mood. To me, it gave direction to those chapters.

But, would it for readers? Not if they didn't know the song. Not if, for whatever reason the song didn't connect with them. And not if the song didn't evoke the same response in them. And that's what I was talking about. I was using a specific stimulus that was outside my work and subject to innumerable external-to-the-story factors that would influence reader reactions and expecting it to evoke the same or at least a very similar response, in both mood and intensity, for readers as it did for me.

Dumb. I know better. Cognitive psychology nailed that a long time ago. For any given stimulus, people can have many different thoughts, and it is those thoughts, not the stimulus, that drives the emotional response. Fundamental principle of cognitive psychology.

If the mood and tone I was feeling was important, I need to make sure it's in those chapters without relying on it. Mention it? Sure. Have him hum a few bars, maybe even sing a phrase? Yup. Have her recognize it and remember it and tell him what it meant to her at that time in their lives? Already in there. But I don't need even one line to do that, and in one chapter, there are a couple of stanzas. Dumb. And quite likely, theft of intellectual property. Just one more thing to do during revision!

I was thinking that before any suit is filed there would first be a cease and desist letter,

That would be common practice, but it's not a legal requirement.

Sure, but even those with deep pockets do not want to go to court if they don't have to and at best they could be claiming statutory damages, which I believe without looking it up is $10k. That would be eaten up in legal fees and given the circumstances I do not believe that award of legal fees would likely be successful, although this very conversation may work against that.

That being said, yes there is a risk. I just believe the risk is very low.

US statutory damages for copyright can go up to $150K, if the infringement is deemed willful.

You are correct, for a work that's being distributed for free, a suit for damages generally wouldn't be worth the effort, but the copyright owner can also ask for injunctive relief.

https://www.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/706

The amount you may award as statutory damages is not less than $750, nor more than $30,000 for each work you conclude was infringed.

[However, if you find the infringement was innocent, you may award as little as $200 for each work innocently infringed.]

[However, if you find the infringement was willful, you may award as much as $150,000 for each work willfully infringed.

Richard the Third has multiple full songs in his stories.
I do some of this type of work for composers: it's impossible to conceive of some finding the offending quote in a non-bestseller. Then they have to make a decision whether it's worthwhile to pursue the claim - it will cost them a lot of time, effort and money to do so. Unless there is a deep pockets publisher who can be hit, it won't be worthwhile to even pay a lawyer to write a cease and desist letter.

I agree.

Using the lyrics is not

Citing a small part of the lyrics and calling it an earworm the character can't get out of his mind should be ok.

HM.

Because song lyrics themselves can be so small I'd be cautious on that note.

I don't think the risk for a free story is that significant. It is technically a violation, and if the copyright holder for the lyrics wanted to be an asshole about it, they could sue, but the economics don't work out for a lawsuit against a story available for free.

Now if you are publishing the story for sale, you want to be really scrupulous about copyright.

The US has a mandatory licensing scheme for music, but I don't know if it's just performances, or if it covers sheet music and lyrics as well.

The lyrics and performance each have their own copyright and are usually owned by different entities.

I am aware of that, but that says nothing about whether or not the mandatory licensing scheme covers sheet music and lyrics.