I've only been around for a couple years and don't have a great perspective as to whether the output right now is higher or lower in quantity or quality than before. Was wondering what the community felt about the state of erotica/adult stories these days compared to previous years or decades.
Depends how you define erotica.
When DH Lawrence died, he was considered a pornographer.
A great theme of the movie "Midnight in Paris" has to do with the Golden Age.
The MC goes back in time to the 1920s which he thinks is the Golden Age (Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Cole Porter, Picasso, etc.). He meets a woman and they go back in time to the 1890s. She stays there because, to her, that's the Golden Age (the 1920s was just the present to her).
If there was one, I'd think it might have been in the last few years of Usenet.
A lot of stuff being posted in a pretty freeform way. The net not as jaded and people not as partisan.
Tagging was still largely viable as a way to filter in and out various things and I rarely encountered people trying to abuse it just to harass a different set of interests.
The Internet was still in an era where it was normal for everyone to have an online identity that was not their real identity. Social Media had yet to take over with all of it's policies about 'real name and photo or get out'.
Without Social Media and YouTube, people weren't being inspired to become their worst selves. You didn't have algorithms that after you read one thing, found a more shocking thing to replace it and use anger to keep you engaged - so the various people on different sides of things were not yet being radicalized to hate each other, and could actually communicate. That makes it a lot easier to have stories when you don't have half of them being written out of anger or 'I'll show them' mentalities.
That meant more people were willing to be involved, and didn't see the 'hurdle' of keeping up a different 'identity' as it was normal to do so.
I don't disagree with any of this when talking about the web generally, but Usenet was killed by every story site being overrun with a shit ton of spam.
I don't disagree with any of this when talking about the web generally, but Usenet was killed by every story site being overrun with a shit ton of spam.
And largely 80% of the stories being the same.
5k stories that were little more than two people meeting, then fucking, then parting. All in 6 paragraphs or less.
I've been reading online for 15 to 20 years and it's easier to find quality writing and a real story these days.
Totally agree on that. With the introduction of social media and sites like youtube the internet and the quality of content has declined to almost plain rubbish.
With the exception of the (erotic) stories themselves. As mushroom stated, at that time it was mostly very short stories, much of the same kind, partially of course because of the slow speeds and limits at that time. I think sites like SOL now offer a much better quality of stories, sometimes from authors that could be professionally publishing if given a chance.
I'm still waiting to see if the ease of self-publishing of the last years is resulting in even better stories or not. Currently I'm leaning to at least better edited but I wonder how much authors are thinking about writing towards better sales instead of a better story. Or start throwing out as much as they can because every single sale is a sale right?
That being said, I think a 'Golden Age' is different for everyone because personal preferences prescribe what is golden or not for each individual.
Or start throwing out as much as they can because every single sale is a sale right?
That's the philosophy of a very popular SOL author. I remember discussing self-publishing with him way back and he said it's all about volume.
But not everyone feels that way. I don't. For me it's all about the story. But I'm not in it for the money.
Without Social Media and YouTube, people weren't being inspired to become their worst selves. You didn't have algorithms that after you read one thing, found a more shocking thing to replace it and use anger to keep you engaged - so the various people on different sides of things were not yet being radicalized to hate each other, and could actually communicate. That makes it a lot easier to have stories when you don't have half of them being written out of anger or 'I'll show them' mentalities.
Very well said. That is one reason I am not on Social Media. I lean left so why would they put far right shit on my page? To piss me off is why. I have no sympathy for people who whine about people being mean to them. They should have known that would happen. It's like bitching about all the jet noise after you bought the house next to the airport.
One of the biggest problem with YouTube is when they started paying people for their videos. When people found out they could make a lot of money doing mean and stupid things it just made it worse.
When people found out they could make a lot of money doing mean and stupid things it just made it worse.
The logical next step after America's Funniest Home Videos or Big Brother and movies like Jackass.
The internet made it easier for random people to publish what was already being published by the MSM.
bitching about all the jet noise after you bought the house next to the airport.
There's a trick to that, you complain to the government and the news media, you get all your neighbors to do it too, then when the government closes the airport your property values go up.
That is why when they build new airports they buy up the surrounding land and grow hay on it.
It's like bitching about all the jet noise after you bought the house next to the airport.
Windsor Castle isn't right next to the airport ;-)
AJ
Windsor Castle isn't right next to the airport ;-)
Wrong.
The Windsor Castle is just 0.2 miles from LHR Terminal 4.
It's a nice pub with great food…. ;)
I'd say the mid 90's. The 'net' was 'free' and wild. there was almost nothing to legislate it. I'm firmly of the opinion that rules for the most part constrict creativity. It could further be argued that there was a different golden age in the BBS days and a lot of that freedom carried over into those few years of the mid nineties, specifically '94 to '98. This is when I came into contact with the internet and it may be rose coloured glasses but due to higher barriers to entry meant that things were 'freer' if you want to look at it like that. Usenet is still going and due to relative obscurity a less policed section of the internet as a whole.
It could further be argued that there was a different golden age in the BBS days and a lot of that freedom carried over into those few years of the mid nineties, specifically '94 to '98.
Most people are completely unaware that there was an "Online Presence" before the Internet became known to the public. And in that I do agree. I myself was a sysop back then, and had a huge erotica section from 1990 to around 1994 when I closed it down. And my first webpages were about erotica. A lot of the early hosting services heavily restricted "porn", but as erotica was written they largely ignored it.
And on a BBS, erotica was popular, often because they were small, only a few K in size. And also there was no "video" at that era, at most just some images or animated GIF files. And even at 33k, downloading a JIF file could take 5 minutes or more.
And for a breakdown of speeds in that era, I did some calculations for one of my stories set in the era. A small very pixelated video of a a few minutes could take an hour or more to transfer.
And there were some BBS in that era that were known for their huge collection of text files. Rusty & Eddies comes to mind there, as well as TOTSE.
And even the Usenet groups like ASS finally gave way to ASSM, which was a moderated variant which cracked down hard on the spam that killed the original ASS. Today, about the only thing I see on ASSM is just constant rehashes of stuff that I first saw there decades ago.
even at 33k, downloading a JIF file could take 5 minutes or more.
Nothing like watching a picture form, line by line, on your monitor, wondering if it will be one you want to save...
Brings to mind a homily about anticipation...
... as well as TOTSE
Ah, the temple... Very expensive, in the long distance charges of Ma Bell.
In the UK, the Victorian era was considered a golden age for erotica.
Of course, those were much simpler times and many stories even had plots of a sort.
AJ
In the UK, the Victorian era was considered a golden age for erotica.
Oh yes. When even the famous author of a children's book and later Disney cartoon wrote a novel about a 19th century teen prostitute.
Although set in the Victorian era, that was to be accurate an Edwardian novel.
Oh yes. When even the famous author of a children's book and later Disney cartoon wrote a novel about a 19th century teen prostitute.
Love to know the book? I'm dense. I did find this interesting article, https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victorians/articles/prostitution
Golden aera of written erotica is harder to pin down I think. For me Asstr is when I began reading good erotica. But the 19th century to early 20th? Film gold age early 70s when briefly porn films were mainstream.
Love to know the book? I'm dense.
You mean you don't know?
Most people are at least aware of "Bambi, a Life in the Woods", written in 1923 by Felix Salten. However, years earlier in 1906 he wrote another novel that was also highly popular. "Josephine Mutzenbacher, or The Story of a Viennese Whore, as Told by Herself".
And it reads as the title sounds, a girl from Austria who became a prostitute at the age of 14, and how she got started and many of her adventures as told in an autobiography.
It's available on Internet Archive, as it's in the public domain.
https://archive.org/details/josefine-mutzenbacher
I'd like to know as well. I originally thought of Fanny Hill, but as far as I am aware Cleland never wrote a children's book.
EDITED TO ADD: Oh, you said 19th century. I am off by a century.
Definitely newsgroups. They were a bit before my time, but I got to see them a little bit in action. A few stories that I got to see around those tender ages when the hormones start flowing definitely did the trick lol. Sadly by then the old style newsgroups were being replaced with the internet closer to how we know it now.
Just to add. If you have access to ebooks via your public library type in anonymous or erotica. I found some really good stuff dating over 100+ old or as recent at the 1920-30s.
I am reading a ebook now called The Romance of Lust from the late 19th cent. Another classic I have open in The Nunnery Tales which ironically is on Amazon though from the 1860s.
So classic when it comes to writing I think it depends, but right now wiht all the online censorship and even here on SOL which has rules the the golden era has long passed.
As much as I can tell, it is right now. The quality of stories has been going up all the years, and keeps improving. More ideas appear. People who write, search for improving their skills, or just hone them overtime. Much more people communicating in written erotica communities, and that alone helps rare gems to see the light.
Of course, there is a perception problem - when you open the lists of stories you feel like you drown in thousands of copies of same stuff, and a lot of those is just unreadable. The dirt needs to time to fall to the bottom, and good stuff remains afloat, that's why it appears, that "time ago" thing were better. Simply because all crap was forgotten, and gems remain. You have to learn to navigate through muddy waters of today, to see the good modern stuff. But there is more of it today, then before.
For my money the Golden Age of Internet Erotica was alt.sex.stories in the late 1990s. People weren't posting erotic novels (or novellas) very often back then but erotic tales that could be read and enjoyed in one go, people like Mark Aster and Eli the Bearded and M1ke Hunt and Deirdre and Ann Douglas and Dulcinea and Vickie Tern and Jordan Shelbourne and Please Cain and Uther Pendragon and Deidre Ng and Michael K. Smith and Delta and dozens of others. I miss those days.
Agreed! There were dozens of active authors on ASSM and ASSTR back then, and they were tremendously helpful to new, aspiring authors. That's how Don Lockwood, Gary, Nick Scipio, Souvie, Gina Marie, Al Steiner,Mr. Slot, Father Ignacious, etc. got going.
And Ruthie actually created an online store for authors she liked, and paid them for their stories. It died when she passed away, but there were some wonderful folks associated with her site.
Desdemona created her Fish Tank specifically to help authors hone their craft. This was all in the late 90's and early '00s, when Usenet was still a thing.
RCM
It's interesting reading all of the different responses as I feel that I'm coming to online erotica too late. So many great stories were written in the last ten years, so many authors have stopped writing - either passing away or just moving on. It feels like there was a sweet spot that was between the "lawlessness" of the BBS/usenet era and now. And what I mean by "too late" is that I don't have the experience of anticipating the next post or chapter from some of the "giants" in the field. There are still great writers out there but the pool feels smaller. Obviously that's just my view, it was interesting to read each of yours.
I believe we may be approaching a "Golden Era of Erotica"
I was early to the BBS, and other aspects of the proto internet; at least for ordinary uses. Too much online porn was "smut" not Erotica. Spelling, grammar, structure, etc. was typically marginal at best. Walls of text, or, sometimes sentences more than 100 words long, resulting in having to scroll quite a bit. Downloading and printing stories was often difficult. Unauthorized posting of stories was common. Pop-Ups, copious advertisements, and malware were epidemic!
There were some gems. (Some classics are on SOL.) Rache (Rachel Roundheels and several other pseudo nyms), has much of her stories here. Seattle has more than it's share of writers, in numerous genres, including porn and exotica. Even on SOL there are a disproportionate number of writers from lesser Seattle, and the Great Pacific NorthWET!
On SOL you can find a plethora of stories. Non porn, flash, smut, all manners of fetishism, and exotica. Quality varies, however, it seems to me that competition is promoting improving quality. Or, authors are inspired by the better stories.
I believe we may be approaching a "Golden Era of Erotica"
I am going to disagree to extent the online sesnsorship has cowed the creative juices of many otherwise qualtiy erotica writers. I damaged my soul going on Literotica this week where every story starts with I am 18 she is 18 he is 19. They write within the box provided same with most of Amazon writers they write to formula. Except on Amazon you can by a book of erotica written in 1920 with graphic teenage sex no problem even as they censor modern writers. So yeah I think we are still in an time where place where creative fredom is still a problem.
...on Literotica... They write within the box provided same with most of Amazon writers they write to formula.
I specified that I think we are approaching a Golden Era of Erotica; we are not there yet. Literotica and other sites apply self-censorship. Laws aren't really the issue, there are books used in public schools that graphically depict sex between minors; even minors and adults. When those types of stories/books get public attention they often get excluded from schools (at least some). But the books are not illegal, nor the authors prosecuted.
Credit Card companies threatening to ban, or actually refuse to do business with Porn Hub, Literotica, etc., or firearms businesses, or whatever, are creating market space for others to exploit.
Constitutionally it is not legal to criminalize writing, or posting Erotica. I think the "squeaky wheels" influencing banks, etc., won't
Most of my stories involve teens and adults, sex, violence, and exploitation. So, I try to be informed about what can be written.
Yeah, the fact they require the author to publicly proclaim "Everyone is over 18" at the beginning of every story AND then authors also go on to ensure that, within the framework of the story, it is noted that the characters waited until they were both 18 before ANY shenanigans took place. SMH
Because, of course, in real life everyone waits until they are 18 to do anything remotely sexual...
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there are a lot of active erotica sites so authors end up either here, there, or both, followed by listing their works on Amazon so they can make a buck.
As I recall, Literotica has had an 18 or over policy for some 20 years. Perhaps I am mistaken. I was deployed, or on US Army bases for a decade and a half at the beginning of the 21st century. So,, I rarely visit Literotica; I haven't checked for 3 or more years. Or, maybe my "search-fu" was not up to snuff. I just don't recall any stories with characters 14 to 17 on Literotica, at least not in the last 2 decades.
There is a Fan Fiction porn stories site, with about as many stories as SOL. Quality of the stories is significantly less. Search functionality is terrible. It lacks many features of SOL. Unless there has been a recent change, some stories have characters under 18. Finding particular stories is problematic.
There are some gay/lesbian sites with under 18 characters; those sites don't appeal to me; so, I don't have much info.
I don't have a problem with the age limit, I have a problem with it being so blatantly labeled on every story and then also worked into the plot to assure people that the characters are over 18.
If that has been the policy forever, then it needs to be stated on the site's own pages that all stories feature sexually active 18+ year old adults. No need to have it at the beginning of every story. When the author submits a story just have them attest to the age of the characters. I've seen author's stories disappear because they didn't state the ages of participants even though there is no reason to suspect they would be younger than 18.
I damaged my soul going on Literotica this week where every story starts with I am 18 she is 18 he is 19.
True words, etc.
Speaking of, Ch2 of my story was rejected by Lit over the following:
"It's hardly surprising that we were each other's first kiss. It was an easy, uncomplicated thing. There was nothing romantic about it — we were too young for that. We'd seen others do it and wanted to know more about this strange, unsanitary deed. What was it that made people want to keep doing it? After we kissed, we found ourselves none the wiser and simply cracked on without giving it another thought. Back then, I don't think we thought of ourselves as 'boy' and 'girl'. All those things which pass between women and men had yet to claim us."
I'm really only posting to that hell-site because book 1 of my story accidentally turned out to be Lit-compliant (or so I thought!). The idea was to post it on Lit so the benighted users of that place would be forced to come to Sol if they wanted to read more. :)
The goose that lays golden eggs is 73 years old today. She collects antique erotica.
The gold hen age of erotica.